Fox Match-Up General Discussion

[crifer]

wolf´s recovery is so easily gimped,
bair and nair are so good,
also u can shinespike him so easily!
Once a friend was using upb against me and while I was hit I shinespiked him.
that was great xD

 

[Lightning93]

yeah Wolfs UpB sucks harder for recovery than Peachs 2nd jump lol

Lol and that's saying a LOT. Seriously, for peach it's why even bother? Same for Wolf if you've even have some skill at shine spiking.

I don't have any more about Wolf to contribute, I think we've addressed mostly everything... can we do Wario next?

 

[Lightning93]

Okay sorry this took so long to find an example. THIS is what I meant by Shiek having so much more than the tilt-lock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX65n-h8JFk

No hope for a recovering Fox.

 

[super_bacon807]

Hmm, I was surprised that there wasn't too much discussion here on the Fox VS Wolf match up, but then I remembered a while back that it was discussed much deeper in the Wolf boards. Here's the thread if anyone's interested in checking it out:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198192

 

[M@v]

Hmm, I was surprised that there wasn't too much discussion here on the Fox VS Wolf match up, but then I remembered a while back that it was discussed much deeper in the Wolf boards. Here's the thread if anyone's interested in checking it out:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198192

yeah they came up with 45:55 wolf advantage, Im thinking its 50:50. Its not much of a difference anyway, this match comes down to the better player.

 

[-Mars-]

Okay sorry this took so long to find an example. THIS is what I meant by Shiek having so much more than the tilt-lock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX65n-h8JFk

No hope for a recovering Fox.

Save your second jump and as long as you have the copter left, she can't do much to you. If you have to use firefox though, your screwed.

 

[M@v]

Well since this was already discussed in Wolf forums, and we all agree, this is going as a dead even.


By request, next up is Diddy Kong, Fox's main partner in Subspace Emissary.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

I think that this match is 60:40 Fox.

Fox has an amazing grab game against Diddy. Fox can do pretty simple combos on Diddy early on in the fight to rack up damage on the Diddy.

Fox's speed is amazing in this match-up. You can really mess with a Diddy with your speed. Keep the Diddy on his toes mixing up Empty SH, SHDL, QDAs, and throwing some grabs(SDCG and PWG please.) I also like to use LOTS of retreating bairs.

Fox's shine I think gives him the advantage in the match-up. Fox's Shine is amazing because it takes Diddy's bananas and turns his as well as it gimps Diddy's ridiculously easy. I dropped my friends Diddy in like 1:30 because I was able to gimp him fast as lightning with the shine.

Also Fox has an amazing ability to catch Diddy's bananas. He can catch them easily with an air dodge or aerial, and his dash attack is idea for grabbing bananas already on the floor.

I have more to add to this later but unfortunately I have class now.

I'll continue later.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

yeah they came up with 45:55 wolf advantage, Im thinking its 50:50. Its not much of a difference anyway, this match comes down to the better player.

Do keep in mind that this took place in the Wolf boards. I honestly think that if you held it here, It would have come out even or 55:45. This is just becuase of the psycology of entering another character's boards and being worried not to offend any of thier players. This all contributes to a weaker argument.

But what's past is past and I think that 50:50 is appropriate. As for Diddy: I would put it down at 60:40 for Fox. Diddy loses many of his spammable traits against Fox. His peanut popgun is slow and easy to read, hence, easy to shine with the envied reflector. Fox can bypass bananas with Illusion and has a great dash attack for picking them up and throwing back at Diddy.

Diddys also have trouble against any character who can throw out attacks as fast or faster than his own. We know that his game is heavily based on trickery, deception and constant attacks. Fox is fast enough to at least work around the constant attacks. He also has a edge over Diddy's recovery (shine, shine, shine!).

One thing that Foxes really do have to watch out for is Diddy's ability to tilt in rediculous ways. Side and down tilts can be devastating since they have so little cooldown time. But yeah, 60:40 in Fox's favor.

 

[Lightning93]

Basically from what I've seen you want to keep an offensive game with Fox. Although Fox has some advantages with his defense in this matchup than other characters you shouldn't just wait for Diddy to approach. Diddy players have great mindgames with their glide tossing and banana combo abilities, also to mention his grabs which have considerable throwing range, so you want to make sure Diddy doesn't get these opportunities. Keep up the shines and pressure and you should be good.

 

[KheldarVII]

I agree, Diddy is harder to play when under pressure. He has quick tilts and smashes to try to shake you off of him so keep him high up. I'd probably not try to get that jetpack unless you can survive the hit and he's dead right after. I'd would try getting him while he's falling or just let him get back up and you keep pushing him off. He won't be coming after you while you're recovering.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

I agree, Diddy is harder to play when under pressure. He has quick tilts and smashes to try to shake you off of him so keep him high up. I'd probably not try to get that jetpack unless you can survive the hit and he's dead right after. I'd would try getting him while he's falling or just let him get back up and you keep pushing him off. He won't be coming after you while you're recovering.

You can nair his jetpack recover really easy. And eventually shine or nair against once he gets too far out to recover.

 

[Zhamy]

Protip (Gimmick!):

Rising Dair offstage (works like ROFLcopter/Rising Fair) to his jetpack, followed by Shine. Very situational, but hilarious.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Protip (Gimmick!):

Rising Dair offstage (works like ROFLcopter/Rising Fair) to his jetpack, followed by Shine. Very situational, but hilarious.

YES!

Also beats his forward B...

This is actually an incredible edgeguard against certain characters, namely Falco and Wolf... it seems to cover all options a lot of the time, so yeah.

It also puts you in very good position against a number of other characters including all tether chars, Ness and Lucas, Wario even, and several others.

Not as good against those characters..with the exception of owning tethers...but still works wonders.

 

[DMG]

It also puts you in very good position against a number of other characters including all tether chars, Ness and Lucas, Wario even, and several others.

LOLWUT Fox has an extremely hard time edgeguarding Wario, Fox would do better if he moved faster in the air horizontally, but he doesn't.

 

[Fenrir VII]

LOLWUT Fox has an extremely hard time edgeguarding Wario, Fox would do better if he moved faster in the air horizontally, but he doesn't.

I didn't say that Fox has an easy time edgeguarding Wario... >.>

I simply said that a rising dair puts him in a good position, when it is applicable. It's rarely useful, but it can override the bike against an unlucky or careless player.also beats the up B...Again, I was just saying it's a decent tactic at times against him.

 

[DMG]

I didn't say that Fox has an easy time edgeguarding Wario... >.>

I simply said that a rising dair puts him in a good position, when it is applicable. It's rarely useful, but it can override the bike against an unlucky or careless player.also beats the up B...Again, I was just saying it's a decent tactic at times against him.

Ah, yes it can put you in a good position, if given the opportunity. That chance will rarely come sadly, but poor Olimar... R.I.P. Space man lol. :D

 

[Fenrir VII]

Also just clarifying, I'm not necessarily saying to shine after the dair...I mean, of course if it's there, but I'm talking mainly about rising dair as its own edge guard...it's really, really good against certain characters...

Probably the main reason I think Fox has a very good match against Falco...it just covers recovery options...

gimping Diddy with it is very good as well.and If diddy has to barrel back up, shine is just magnificent.

Fox's speed keeps the bananas from being such a pain...even if he doesn't use them back...avoiding them is not a huge issue. He can catch a quick Diddy, and combo pretty well. He can kill quite a lot better, and edgeguard MUCH more easily.

Diddy is a good character, overall, but yeah, I'd give this Fox's advantage.

 

[darkspatan117]

Why Fox boards still think they' re even with Snake he easily have the advantage won't you realise it

 

[M@v]

Why Fox boards still think they' re even with Snake he easily have the advantage won't you realise it

Nice grammar. Apparently you dont know how to read threads either.

 

[darkspatan117]

Snake attack faster and outrange Fox on pretty much every move he throw's out laser camping doesn't work against him so you're forced to approach which is a bad thing for Fox.

 

[gantrain05]

Snake attack faster and outrange Fox on pretty much every move he throw out laser camping doesn't work against him so you're forced to approach which is a bad thing for Fox

ok well then lets just put this matchup and say only the cons about snake this time, fox can juggle snake, and then get him in the air, and all of fox's arials are faster than snakes so fox wins, so thats a bad thing for snake

there that argument wins right? my logic is unbeatable.

 

[darkspatan117]

- Any of Snakes moves deals more dmg than all of Fox' standard moves (tilts, grabs, jabs)
- Snake lives muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch longer than Fox
- Snake has better finishers (good luck landing an usmash =P)
- Snake wins in priority, range, attack speed, attack power and weight
- Snake can punish Fox much better than Fox can punish Snake

Gantrain explain why Fox goes even with Snake those are some fact but I have more

 

[JigglyZelda003]

- Any of Snakes moves deals more dmg than all of Fox' standard moves (tilts, grabs, jabs)

thats why you combo snake not take turns playing chess. >.>

- Snake lives muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch longer than Fox

and he doesn't do that to most of the other light-medium/heavy weights?

- Snake has better finishers (good luck landing an usmash =P)

Dair>Usmash or Dsmash, not simple, but doable.

- Snake wins in priority, range, attack speed, attack power and weight

pretty much, but on attack speed Fox goes about even.

- Snake can punish Fox much better than Fox can punish Snake

if snakes open combo comb combo. Fox is good at punshing. snake, like usual, just gets to make more errors.

Gantrain explain why Fox goes even with Snake those are some fact but I have more

Gantrain explaind in the air advantages, also Fox can force snake to always be on the approach cause lasers and shine stop his projectiles mostly.

 

[gantrain05]

lol i didn't explain anything, i was just using his theory of "i point out all the pros of my character and the cons of yours and i win the debate" i don't feel like debating the fox snake matchup seeing as im in the middle of a heated peach vs pikachu matchup.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

lol @ Gantrain. i hate pika w/ a passion, i just Dair the rat to oblivion XD

 

[gantrain05]

lol @ Gantrain. i hate pika w/ a passion, i just Dair the rat to oblivion XD

i like to Dair everyone into oblivion lol.

 

[gantrain05]

wait what? isnt this fox vs diddy matchup? lol, where were we again?

 

[M@v]

Were talking about diddy till a scrub interrupted.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

yeah on Diddy eh i don't get to fight many of them as Fox so i have nothing to put atm. i'll go back to lurking till we get to a character i do fight w/ Fox ocassinally whos worth it, like Peach....

 

[RPK]

That b*tch N4N3RZ has to play me again...I havent played his Diddy Kong in a long *** time...Keeps using Meta Knight and other characters when we hang out @3@

 

[Toronto Joe]

yeah, shield can only do so much against nanas after the diddy catches on, they just bait you out of it and mindgame you into either getting hit,grabbed or dash combod

At my tournie yesterday i took a Diddy main to Jungle Japes, and camped the small platform forcing him to approach me.......i ended up losing but it came down to 100+ each, you just have to space really well against diddy and never let him get too far away, keep it close so he cant get or set up his nanas............if they ban Jungle Japes, take em to Rainbow Cruise

I just saw that Ninjalink plays Fox, help us out with this matchup!

 

[Zhamy]

yeah, shield can only do so much against nanas after the diddy catches on, they just bait you out of it and mindgame you into either getting hit,grabbed or dash combod

I wouldn't be surprised if you got yelled at for this. FOX CAN MINDGAME YOUR MINDGAME TOO LLOLOLOLOLOL

I just saw that Ninjalink plays Fox, help us out with this matchup!

Except that his Fox isn't that good?

 

[NinjaLink]

i could help BUT my fox is called bad so imma stay out of this. Nor am i 'smart'.

 

[Zhamy]

But you can give advice from the Diddy side, no?

 

[Toronto Joe]

yeah Ninja, just ignore the pricks on this board, plz post anything cause i need help with this matchup

 

[KheldarVII]

Out of curiousity, what's the best way to get back up after slipping on a banana? I'll usually just get back up and try to jump or something.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

idk, i usually just get back up too since rolling tends to get me grabbed or smashed more often than not.

 

[-Mars-]

The greatest tech chase in the game without question.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Out of curiousity, what's the best way to get back up after slipping on a banana? I'll usually just get back up and try to jump or something.

Backward roll for me. It offers a fairly large amount of invinsibility frames and distances you from more attacks.