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Fox Match-Up General Discussion

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M@v

M@v

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I would be willing to go with 40:60, but can I get a recount WHY its 40:60 again? I want to make sure we got this right. I don't want to have to revisit it like snake again.



1000th post party time!
 
Zhamy

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To summarize:

Both Olimar and Fox have very damaging combos and strange (but effective) ways to gimp each other. Both die horribly quickly from each other's smashes. The problem is that Olimar outranges Fox like hell.

Who's approaching is determined simply by who's the better camper. Oftentimes, this will be Fox. And that's when the real trouble sets in. Everything Olimar has outranges Fox's approaches, making this part hard as hell. Coming from the side? Fsmash/Grab. Coming from above? Usmash/Utilt. Rolling through? Dsmash. Dropping a Nair at an angle? UpB.

However, this really isn't as bad as it seems. There are many ways to get inside Olimar's range (PWGs, sliding shields, etc. etc.) and once you're inside, then it's the usual combo setup and **** **** ****. Dsmash does wonders in this match for killing/gimping, as does Bair. Usmash is still as reliable as ever.

Really, just don't get outranged and outzoned in this matchup.

60:40 Olimar.
 
KheldarVII

KheldarVII

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Well one way you can picture the advantages and disadvantages is think about how well...

- An amateur Fox does against an amateur Olimar
- A mediocre Fox does against a mediocre Olimar
- A pro Fox(lulz) does against a pro Olimar

I personally think most amateur Fox's will lose but it depends on the player. So you can give a small advantage to Olimar.


But on a technical aspect of it, I think Olimar's range helps him out a teenie bit. Although Fox will usually stay back and blaster away. Ah screw it, you know what, I'm caling it 5:5.
 
Zhamy

Zhamy

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- An amateur Fox does against an amateur Olimar
- A mediocre Fox does against a mediocre Olimar
- A pro Fox(lulz) does against a pro Olimar
Click to expand...
Amateurs have no place in a matchup discussion.

AMATEURS LASER PEW PEW PEW
 
M@v

M@v

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Zhamy said:
Amateurs have no place in a matchup discussion.

AMATEURS LASER PEW PEW PEW
Click to expand...
LOL. Pew pew wtf? XD


But I will wrap this one up tomorrow unless anyone got any other suggestions. like I said, I honestly never have much trouble with Olimar, but I guess I am just good against him.
 
Zhamy

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But I will wrap this one up tomorrow unless anyone got any other suggestions. like I said, I honestly never have much trouble with Olimar, but I guess I am just good against him.
Click to expand...
So...who's next? Unless you have someone in mind, I think we could cover Diddy, since we have a mini-topic on it below.
 
M@v

M@v

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I got a lot of work to do right now...Ill try my very best to switch this to a new character tonight, I promise >_>.
 
Zhamy

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i Got A Lot Of Work To Do Right Now...ill Try My Very Best To Switch This To A New Character Tonight, I Promise >_>.
Click to expand...
Where is my LOLimar update? M@v, you're killing me.
 
Zhamy

Zhamy

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Oh yeah.

For those discussions that weren't done here, we should still go over them from the Fox side, since it'll generate discussion and help everyone figure out what/why/when/where?

And this is the new, updated matchup chart.
 
M@v

M@v

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Ok how about this for the summary. it will be 4:6 Olimar advantage.

"Fox and Olimar both have things going for them in this matchup. Fox has the ability to easily gimp olimar, and outcamp him. Fox also has the upsmash, which can destroy poor Olimar pretty early. Olimar has the unpredictablility of his moves, and his devastating grab/smash ranges, which causes issues for an approaching fox. Use shine and Dsmash to get pikmin off of you. The big problem here is olimar is much better at spacing than you, thanks once again to his massive range. Where fox shines in this matchup is, well, off the stage with his shine. This is a closer match. Play smart."
 
Zhamy

Zhamy

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What was wrong with my summary? (I am deeply butthurt.)


Both Olimar and Fox have very damaging combos and strange (but effective) ways to gimp each other. Both die horribly quickly from each other's smashes. The problem is that Olimar outranges Fox like hell.

Who's approaching is determined simply by who's the better camper. Oftentimes, this will be Fox. And that's when the real trouble sets in. Everything Olimar has outranges Fox's approaches, making this part hard as hell. Coming from the side? Fsmash/Grab. Coming from above? Usmash/Utilt. Rolling through? Dsmash. Dropping a Nair at an angle? UpB.

However, this really isn't as bad as it seems. There are many ways to get inside Olimar's range (PWGs, sliding shields, etc. etc.) and once you're inside, then it's the usual combo setup and **** **** ****. Dsmash does wonders in this match for killing/gimping, as does Bair. Usmash is still as reliable as ever.

Really, just don't get outranged and outzoned in this matchup.

60:40 Olimar.
Click to expand...
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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We discussed this matchup on the Wolf boards a while back and they seemed to think it was even......maybe we should get them over here so we can finish the discussion:)

Anyways, Fox kills Wolf off the stage......I don't care what anyone says. Wolf can edgeguard fairly well with his bair and his shine, but his recovery is telegraphed. Fox can gimp him with nair, bair, dair, and sometimes even the shine. Wolf players know that their recovery is crappy though, so don't run right out there into a shine.....it has invincibility frames.

I'm not going to argue over who can camp better.....I think both of the characters are good at it for obvious reasons.

Air game is debatable, Wolf has a no lag bair and fair and bair does have more range than anything Fox has in the air. This doesn't mean Fox can't play in the air.......bair, nair, and fair are all good in this matchup.

Ground game is debatable as well. Fsmash is only used as a punisher by Wolf mains and it comes out on frame 5. His ftilt, fsmash, and I think his dtilt all have more range than anything besides Foxs' fsmash iirc. Utilt is really great for Fox though as it outspeeds everything Wolf has besides his jabs and will clash with his fsmash at least(I think it clashes with his dsmash as well, i'll check this tomorrow).

They both have fantastic killing options as well. These two characters are among the best punishers in the game and can kill around 100% easily. Wolfs' dsmash may be less of a factor in this matchup, however, as he has to use it a lot to keep Fox off of him. Wolfs' boost smash and his fair are probably his second best killing options so watch out for the surprise boost smash.......it's very good. I think we all know how easily Fox kills and getting Wolf to kill percentage is not a huge problem for Fox.

Wolfs love their bair and rightfully so, it's a fantastic all-purpose aerial. One of Wolfs best approach options but Fox has a answer for it: shield drop usmash. It will beat bair everytime and will force Wolf players to space perfectly everytime.

I have more on the matchup, but that's all i'll put for right now. I'm calling this matchup even until someone from either side can convince me otherwise.
 
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FzeroX

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a tad of info, when a wolf upbs (which is rare) just go for the shine spike, you can shine in between each hit of the upb if you time it right (I just hit the b button quickly) so is auto gimp most of the time he upbs and you are there waiting, and even if you dont shine you take like 6 damage (cause they will sweetspot obviously and not finish the move)
 
Zhamy

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O you guys updated it? Last time i checked(A LONG time ago) people were telling me 3:7. Fixd.
Click to expand...
Dammit, I need to fix that matchup chart again? Meh, if no one's using it, then I won't bother.

Is anyone using that matchup chart? (Like, is it going to get posted somewhere besides these back pages?)
 
M@v

M@v

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Zhamy said:
Dammit, I need to fix that matchup chart again? Meh, if no one's using it, then I won't bother.

Is anyone using that matchup chart? (Like, is it going to get posted somewhere besides these back pages?)
Click to expand...
Update it again, ill post it on the front page in place of the ratio list. (Keep pikachu as LOL )^_^
 
Lightning93

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I would agree this matchup is pretty much equal, both characters can rack damage and gimp easily.

But beware if the Wolf knows the space animal gimp. It's pretty much inescapable. If you're recovering towards the stage from a horizontal angle Wolf will blaster you and immediately follow up with a shine. Impossible for Falco to recover, but Fox has a better chance due to his longer Fire Fox. You can see it in action in this vid towards the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnkXQQmspqE

Except he managed to do it ON the stage -.-... and sorry for the static apparently my RCA audio cable is a bit scratched up.

OH! Almost forgot, Wolf is the one character most susceptible to my personal LIGHT "Combo." It's not really a combo because it is escapable, but from what I've seen it's really hard for Wolf. If he DI's right before the drill shine then oh well... at least you tried. The up-tilt in this match up can rack up a lot more damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XB2j69JSUg
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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So people didn't post on a Halloween friday night.........calm down.
 
goldemblem

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i agree it's 50:50, both of them have a really even matchup and can gymp each others recoveries, in my opinion if fox can keep his "flow" against fox it's pretty much **** against wolf, also when you get the timing for Wolf's UpB it is really easy to shine it
 
M@v

M@v

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The weakness with wolf is how horrible his upb truly is for recovering. This is a dead 50:50 in my honest opinion.
 
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