Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[joeplicate]

you know you can CC the first hit of peach's dsmash then powershield the 2nd and regular shield the rest of them?

omfg are you kidding dude hahaha

i don't know why my browser keeps putting me a few pages behind but this is absurd lol.

actually
smash darwinism. go for it sveet :D

 

[KAOSTAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q91y6J_ddgY#t=02m16s

Whoa, shines clink'd. o_O Never seen that happen before.

EDIT: They do it again in the beginning of their third match! SW's hands are too fast.

EDIT2: Okay, real question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQqVUzc0pb4#t=01m49s

Ka0star explains it, and I'm wondering if that's actually right or if it was really just the cars. P:

lol, I was just making a joke on youtube. it was just the cars

ive done what sveet was talking about, but im not trying to rely on that **** lol. dsmash scares me lol.

 

[PK Webb]

thanks chival i will use that more.....it mid percent that pops them into the air correct? oh yeah for those who would still like to critque here r the vids

CF- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_mshLtb9w4

Marth- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31i2zYxGRNM

Sheik- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EWyQ1RiBY0

falco(my worst matchup HELP!!!!!!!!!)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ii1T3x_KJw

i purposely put up matches of me losing because there i obviously make more mistakes that i need to correct so plz be a picky as u want to be =)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

unknown, when you say you can CC the strong dash attack til 80, do you mean a true CC or just an ASDI down from a noncrouching animation? Cause you can't actually CC from a dashdance (unless someone were to pivot CC which would be amazing), you can only get the ASDI down part of it. so when approaching a DD camper it's only the percent that ASDI down will work for that is relevant.

I'm pretty sure true CC is actually just ASDI down. Hold down on the cstick and eat a hit, you'll CC it just fine. It only doesn't work when you're already doing an attack, but you can CC while you're moving just fine.

omfg are you kidding dude hahaha

i don't know why my browser keeps putting me a few pages behind but this is absurd lol.

actually
smash darwinism. go for it sveet :D

Lol thanks, though it is pretty risky, its really nice when it happens. Usually a dsmash will shield poke you with the last one, but if you perfect shield one you don't lose shield HP so you won't get poked. Then you can actually follow up a shielded dsmash for once O_O

 

[unknown522]

unknown, when you say you can CC the strong dash attack til 80, do you mean a true CC or just an ASDI down from a noncrouching animation? Cause you can't actually CC from a dashdance (unless someone were to pivot CC which would be amazing), you can only get the ASDI down part of it. so when approaching a DD camper it's only the percent that ASDI down will work for that is relevant.

that is true. I was talking about in general though. ASDI down does work until at least 70% though. I sitll try catching people out of their DD, but I get CC'd especially by marth. I also hate doing it vs Raynex unless he's over 105%. I hate getting CC'd when he tries to DC shine when approaching.

Who actually ASDIs down mid-dash anyway?

everyone. Especially marth/sheik players.

 

[FluxWolf]

the goal of ssbm is to knock your opponent off the stage and not let them back

thats usually what i try and do, smash darwinism LOL

 

[FoxLisk]

I'm pretty sure true CC is actually just ASDI down. Hold down on the cstick and eat a hit, you'll CC it just fine. It only doesn't work when you're already doing an attack, but you can CC while you're moving just fine.

nah, they're different. search for posts on it or something, i dont remember exactly. basically if you're actually crouch canceling you get a huge amount of reduced knockback. if you're just ASDI'ing down, what happens is that if you get hit such that your ASDI down puts you back on the ground, things are weird and you generally stay there. true CC is much more effective though.

that is true. I was talking about in general though. ASDI down does work until at least 70% though. I sitll try catching people out of their DD, but I get CC'd especially by marth. I also hate doing it vs Raynex unless he's over 105%. I hate getting CC'd when he tries to DC shine when approaching.

****, 70%? ****. good to know.

 

[FoxLisk]

T. Webb:

vs CF: grab more. uthrow -> moves ***** him. your edgeguarding also leaves a lot to be desired. you seem to try for flashy stuff instead of just bairing or grabbing the ledge like you should. just get the job done, you dont need run off nairs or dairs or shines or anything. simple bairs and such will get it done.


vs marth: cool it on the spot dodges. watch through that video a couple times and think about the places you spot dodge. given that the tactic was not throwing your opponent off, i have to assume it's either a bad enduring habit or fear. in either case, find something better to do in the situations where you spot dodge. also im sorry that your friend SDI's uairs so well. maybe start bairing him out of uthrows.

vs sheik i dont have much to say. not one of my strong points.

vs falco: i think your biggest problem is not capitalizing on grabs, honestly. you kept getting grabs and then shining, which isn't a great idea, and if you do uthrow->shine you had better wd->usmash and hope they missed the tech. you should usmash or utilt or regrab. you also just weren't punishing hard enough in general. that matchup is extremely punishment-focused.

also why is that falco so intent on using uairs and grabs instead of kill moves or comboing?

 

[JPOBS]

Who actually ASDIs down mid-dash anyway?

Everyone?
all it takes in a fair bit of reaction/prediction on when you get hit and mash down on the joystick and you can CC many many moves espcially at lower percents out of pretty much any animation, including DD

I'm pretty sure true CC is actually just ASDI down. Hold down on the cstick and eat a hit, you'll CC it just fine. It only doesn't work when you're already doing an attack, but you can CC while you're moving just fine.

No they are different

Actually crouching while being hit is MUCH better, and gets the CC effect until much higher.

Holding Down (asdi) while in other animations that arent actually the crouch animation (such as while in L-cancel lag) registers as a CC effect for a while, but its weaker and breaks at earlier percents than true crouch cancelling.

 

[ChivalRuse]

everyone. Especially marth/sheik players.

Everyone?
all it takes in a fair bit of reaction/prediction on when you get hit and mash down on the joystick and you can CC many many moves espcially at lower percents out of pretty much any animation, including DD

Man. Everyone's so good these days.

 

[JPOBS]

lol no kidding.
stuff like sdi upthrowupair, and CC ****** most moves on reaction, would have impressed me like 2 years ago.

now its like, "wow, you really didnt just CC shine that lame nair approach? scrub" lol

 

[RaynEX]

T.Webb:

Vs. Falco - Really sloppy match. Stop trying to uthrow shine everything. CG or kill him off the one grab you get. Learning to dismantle Falco off a grab on FD is crucial. Between Utilt, smash, re-grab and nair...the minute you land a grab that stock should disappear. You HAVE to match Falco's damage output in this match-up. Especially on this stage, where he kills you off a shine. You're not terrible, but you give away alot of free grab damage, or get one hit after the throw and flop the rest.

The music on FD was beast lol

 

[FluxWolf]

hey webb, i watched the sheik match. i'd like to see a lot more run up sheilds into dair oos combos/wd grab oos etc

u can really put on a lot of pressure and force her off the stage with run up sheild to apply defensive pressure

fox really ***** sheik if u play it solid

edit: but yeah, grab needs to = death

and when they get off the stage why should they make it back on without some crazy good recovery going on? just weigh out the options and cover them with the most effective action. just needs more of that fox gayness!!

 

[unknown522]

Man. Everyone's so good these days.

Yeah, it's pretty gay. Most characters can CC fox's strong n-air until roughly 60% without being pushed too far to punish. The other moves stronger than it are: b-air, u-air, all smashes, u-tilt.

Proper CC is when you get into you crouch animation. If they're not crouching yet, then reduce 10-20% depending on the move.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

so like... am i the only one who doesn't like watching matches on hacked versions of melee??
the characters look heavier and the stages look different sizes. i know it's all about colors and designs but it bothers me haha.

i do love the captain america falcon and stuff like that
who could dislike that?

just needs more of that fox gayness!!

YAYUHZZ

 

[PK Webb]

im sry lumpy but me and my crew r addicted lol........thanks every1 for the advice i will def take it all to heart....u guys should subscribe imma be puttin up upstate ny matches alot since i can record now

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

so like... am i the only one who doesn't like watching matches on hacked versions of melee??
the characters look heavier and the stages look different sizes. i know it's all about colors and designs but it bothers me haha.

i do love the captain america falcon and stuff like that
who could dislike that?


YAYUHZZ

I actually like watching the hacked stages. The alternate colors makes me see the stages in a different way even though the stage is exactly the same. The first time i saw DL or YS hacked match, i felt like i was watching the game from another perspective that gave me some valuable insight.

 

[By-Tor]

Up to what percentage can fox chain grab a falco with his up throw? And I've seen eggz charge an upsmash after up-throwing a falco when he gets thrown too high to chain grab, is this the ideal thing to do?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

if the falco decides to stop di'ing and try to shine you, usmash would be smart.

idk the percents... for some reason i never try to chain grab falco...

 

[FoxLisk]

i dont know the numbers. do it a lot. some guidelines though:

if the falco doesnt DI at very low %: usmash and follow

if falco doesn't DI at like 25-40% ish, maybe lower:

utilt -> regrab or usmash or utilt or whatever you think is most appropriate. there is probably someone who can give you % specific advice, but basically going on feel will give you a good amount of damage if you know the characters well. at some point pivot grab is best... not sure on the numbers, again.

if falco doesn't DI above that range:

charge usmash or FH uair.


If falco DIs:

you can regrab for a really long time. going for weak nair (sh early, throw the nair early, hit falco with the part of the nair close to the end of your sh) and then regrab or, at higher percents, usmash is good at some percents too. i'm not particularly good at this, so ask someone else for advice. or just watch colbol vids. colbol absolutely destroys falcos with these kinds of setups on FD. it's a beauty to watch. other players do it too, but Colbol is the most instructive imho.

edit: also, there was an M2K post I read about the percents a long time ago. i have no idea where, but digging that up might help you.

 

[joeplicate]

i just watched the canada vids from the livestream

raynex is really good
unknown is really good


i already knew these things, just thought i would point them out again

 

[Tomacawk]

fox can uthrow chaingrab falco and fox regardless of DI until 60%. they can jump out with no DI at that point.

 

[mastermoo420]

they only clink if you're on the ground. Moves don't clink if someone is in the air (except for non-laser projectiles and Illusion I think). If 2 people shine at the same time and 1 or both of them are in the air, then they will go through each other.

Yeah, I know that, but they did it at the same time! The same frame! P:

Also, Foxes of SWF, I have seen waveshine to grab on Marths before. Is it possible to just waveshine and dash and then JC your grab to get a grab? It seems to work on the comp, but then again - it's a comp.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Waveshine -> grab is guaranteed. You have to run forward, but it's still a "combo".

 

[mastermoo420]

So it works? :D I'm glad. I can actually do it now that my techskill level is a little up, so this opens up quite a few options nao.

 

[Tomacawk]

So it works? :D I'm glad. I can actually do it now that my techskill level is a little up, so this opens up quite a few options nao.

play on and burn some trees my blossoming fox player
speaking of marth, I hate this matchup
what do you guys think of playing against marth defensively with platform bair camping and aggressive pressure when he shows vulnerability?
I usually play aggressively with a high risk high reward grab game but i'm starting to think i should just camp them until they fear me

 

[LumpyCPU...]

if marth di's the shine away, can i still get the waveshine grab?

my wave dashes are far from perfect, so it's hard for me to tell.


also, i'll try to get some matches recorded soon so you guys can critique my wacky fox.

 

[Tomacawk]

if marth di's the shine away, can i still get the waveshine grab?

my wave dashes are far from perfect, so it's hard for me to tell.


also, i'll try to get some matches recorded soon so you guys can critique my wacky fox.

if you get out of your shine fast and have a tight dash input then you can still make the grab, but he may buffer a roll out of it every once and awhile

 

[Kanelol]

as long as you dont WD straight down you should be able to grab relatively easily

 

[FoxLisk]

as long as you dont WD straight down you should be able to grab relatively easily

um false. if you WD slowly or short, marths will just buffer a dodge or roll or just grab.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Its pretty easy to Waveshine and then dash, straight into a running or jc grab. If you get outta the waveshine fast enough you dont even have to Waveshine max distance or anything because you can get him off the dash.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

it always works against one friend (who i'm assuming doesn't di the shine away)

and it never works against KFC's marth (who does everything right... ugh...)

 

[FluxWolf]

just waveshine by sliding your thumb without lifting it up over A

maybe someday your kids waveshines might be as fast as mine and aarosmashguys!

edit: LOL

edit again: ugh can anyone else not get over the fact of how ****ED up of a name LumpyCPU... is? LOL i just cant handle it

 

[LumpyCPU...]

first of all, i didn't notice until now that i lift my thumb slightly to avoid hitting the A button even though it wouldn't do anything while i'm waveshining. thanks for the tip, i guess.


secondly, NO YOUR NAME'S DUMB :/

 

[FluxWolf]

hahaha it wasnt a shot at you, just so confusing and random!

Lumpy

CPU....

 

[KAOSTAR]

just waveshine by sliding your thumb without lifting it up over A

maybe someday your kids waveshines might be as fast as mine and aarosmashguys!

edit: LOL

edit again: ugh can anyone else not get over the fact of how ****ED up of a name LumpyCPU... is? LOL i just cant handle it

HAHAH yea, its almost as bad as Beboop.

 

[mers]

Does shine-bair work against all characters? And does it depend on your opponent's DI? Or if you're fast enough can you make it work against anyone?

I'm assuming an optimal situation for the shine-bair, like an upthrow on another fox, or any other good setup.

 

[KAOSTAR]

The speed you do it at, the point at which they make contact with the shine, your momentum, their DI.(no particular order)

They all effect shine-bairs but you want to do it quickly and hit with the upper diagonals of the shine. If you wanna practice try upthrow shine bair on falco. You will find the spot you need to hit with on the shine and then experiment from there.

 

[FoxLisk]

1) DI will not affect waveshine->grab on marth. SDI will. He can avoid it through accurate SDI and a buffered dodge.

2) shine bair works on all characters up to ******** percents. DI affects it somewhat. I have a friend who's actually quite good at DIing forward so that i hit with the weaker part of the bair, which sucks.

 

[EWC]

I'm pretty sure that even if marth SDI's the shine you can still grab him if you're precise enough. I haven't tested it or anything, but there is a huge margin of error for landing the grab if they don't DI, and I can't imagine SDI having so much of an effect as to totally eliminate that.


Shine bair works on any character at any percent. The things that affect it are the part of the shine that you hit with, DI, and of course how fast you bair after your jump. By the time your opponent is actually thinking about how to DI your shine bairs, you're are much better off just bairing them and having them die really early because they DI down.