Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Lvl 1-3's I think don't DI at all, lvl 4-7 is towards you, and lvl 8 and 9 is up, which is perfect for shine bair. I think.

It works at all percents and under most conditions, but if they DI the shine down, it doesn't work, and if they di it up, it's much easier. Basically, don't do it when they're sure that you'll shine.

 

[RaynEX]

It has to be a walk though, right? No dashes or runs? Just wanted to make sure.

The walk-off edge-hog is all about your momentum. It doesn't matter how you achieve it, as long as you can.

Basically, you gather momentum by walking at full speed, then turn around before you fall of the stage and the momentum carries you off and you hog. This can also be FFed for sexier results.

3 ways of doing this:

-Run straight towards the edge then dash-cancel for a split second then start walking.

-Walk straight at it and do it PC style

-Use your wavedash to gain instant momentum instead of running or walking, so that at the end of your WD you just turn around and fall off.

Mm.. one more question but not really related to fox.

Why did M2K quit playing fox? I heard it was because his controller got stolen or something?

This is what Jason told me:

He was with Cactuar in NY for some tournament, I think MLG or something. In the subway they were talking and waiting for the train. Cactus says M2K don't forget your bag. He had like 300$ worth of **** in there, from controllers to a DS I think and other stuff. The controller he had broken in for Fox was also in there.

Train comes.

Cactus and M2K get on train.

Cactus: "M2k did you bring your bag?"

M2k: "oh ****."

So he forgets his bag on the train platform. They go back to try and retrieve it, but this is NY people - that **** be gone.

Thats the day he started maining Marth. As a matter of fact, he went all Marth in that tourny because he said he couldn't play Fox on substitute controller. Every time I've met him at a tourny so far, he says he's more comfortable with Marth/Sheik because his Fox is inconsistant and makes mistakes.

However, if he had his old controller he'd be using Fox alot more.

tl:dr he lost his fox controller.

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. That is like a combination of the different stories that actually led up to M2K maining Marth.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

So cactuar..how DID he?

 

[victra♥]

So...how do you ledge jump laser so that you grab the edge going down. Is it just crazy insane timing or what?

 

[halcyon.days]

So...how do you ledge jump laser so that you grab the edge going down. Is it just crazy insane timing or what?

Yes, it's like ledge hop neutral B with marth. Frame perfect.

 

[RaynEX]

Just do it really fast. I switch to claw really quickly to do both. But they are both such obscure moves that it doesn't even matter. : D

 

[DtJ Jungle]

rayyyn im back

 

[halcyon.days]

Question. If you uthrow someone straight up (ie. they don't DI the throw) and they land on top of you and you shine, and they DON'T DI the shine, how does the game determine whether they go in front of you or behind you?

Usually if it's somebody like falco I'll try to follow up with thunders if they fall in front of me but I can't do reverse thunders if they fall behind me. I saw in Raynex vs. PeterX that when he fell behind him he would just waveshine backwards -> usmash. It seems easier to do and is probably a better option even if I could do reverse thunders.

Thoughts?

 

[RaynEX]

It depends on what part of the shine you hit them with. Though generally if you throw them straight up, with no d.i. when you shine they go behind you. Unless you are visibly in front of the point of their landing (in which case you'd obviously shine them forward), assume they will fall behind you. Shine to thunders is good, but I'd just usmash after it anyways - so why prolong the inevitable? Oh, also you have more room for error. If they smash d.i. the shine you'd need an absolutely perfect WD and top notch speed to turn around and jab them.

To make your life easier, just take a step forward, THEN shine. That way you control their path of flight rather than guessing it.

 

[BrawlLover]

So cactuar..how DID he?

just ax 8head himself

 

[KirbyKaze]

How do you beat m2k's marth in a set? O.o
Seriously though, I need advice for the marth matchup. I suck at it. I just can't seem to get around his range.

you're either shooting him too much or too little

 

[jugfingers]

Goofy = awesome.

man thats so true

 

[Tee ay eye]

When you are getting chain grabbed, DI slightly (don't DI fully) behind Marth and spam your shine. The Marth will have to pivot grab but it's better than him CGing you easily and he might screw up giving you an opportunity. When he starts his up tilts, try your best to SDI them.

To DI partially, do you DI late or early?

Also, which way should you DI his u-air/u-tilt juggles?

 

[halcyon.days]

To DI partially, do you DI late or early?

Also, which way should you DI his u-air/u-tilt juggles?

Just tilt your control stick halfway. It was actually pretty difficult for me when I started to do it because I just wasn't used to DI-ing something halfway. I'm not exactly sure if there's a precise timing to it, but maybe late? Next time you play a marth just test it out and see.

His u-tilt is hard because most Marth's will turnaround while they are u-tilting. (ie. U-tilt, turnaround, u-tilt). The u-tilt sends you behind Marth, so if you try to DI in front of him, you'll actually go straight up and he'll get another free hit. The best to do is SDI behind him, that way he has to move.

I'm not sure about u-air but I guess you could SDI up and try to jump out before you get u-aired again.

To make your life easier, just take a step forward, THEN shine. That way you control their path of flight rather than guessing it.

If I throw at 0% will I have time to take a step forward?

 

[RaynEX]

against uair SDI down + behind him. It sends you on an awkward angle that is sometimes hard to follow up on.

Normally just d.i. away. Marth has inescapable combos, so you can't really get out of most of his ****. All you can do is lessen the amount of ****.

CGing depends on your opponent to d.i. left/right. D.i. is what makes the CGs worse. In almost every matchup, its better to not d.i. This way you make it harder for them to kick the **** out of you.

For example:

Fox vs. Fox/Falco: CG works till 55 and you can shine or jump out with no d.i. If you continue to d.i. the CG its inescapable till 80%. Thats just about the percent fox needs to utilt -> uair kill you on most stages.

Fox vs. Marth: If you don't d.i. and the Marth wants a tipper, it forces HIM to move and try to get one on you. Most Marths miss the 2 steps -> turnaround tipper anyways.

 

[BrawlLover]

oh so you just sdi down, i see i see

 

[DtJ Jungle]

or you could just take it..sometimes...thats best.

 

[halcyon.days]

Question about DI.

Let's say I've been hit by Marth's fsmash and I SDI/DI straight up. However, I was at such a percent that if I keep going at my current trajectory I'll die from the ceiling height. If I start DI-ing towards the edge of the stage, will I start going that way and maybe save myself?

Kind of hard to word. But basically if you try and change your DI mid-flight will it make a (notable) difference?

 

[RaynEX]

Thats called circle d.i. You SDI the hit that knocks you off the stage then circle the stick around so you don't die off the top/bottom.

Don't d.i. straight up. If you got hit by an fsmash you'd d.i. perpendicular to the direction you've been hit in. So up+towards.

 

[BrawlLover]

whoa! what's CIRCLE DI!? prease exprain!

 

[halcyon.days]

Thats called circle d.i. You SDI the hit that knocks you off the stage then circle the stick around so you don't die off the top/bottom.

Don't d.i. straight up. If you got hit by an fsmash you'd d.i. perpendicular to the direction you've been hit in. So up+towards.

I know not to DI straight up, it was just for example purposes.

Can you give me an example if I got hit by Marth's fmash? Would I just SDI up and then circle around to DI up+towards? If so, would I do an almost full rotation clockwise or just a 1/8 circle counter clockwise with the control stick?

I saw something like this on youtube where aftermath was showing SDI.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=B_4hZpdb5FU
Is this kind of like what Sveet says? (4th comment or osmething like that)

 

[BrawlLover]

wow that vid is freakin insane, what is going on!?

 

[Mew2King]

fox vs marth is just laser them, dash dance grab them, and bair them off the stage infinitely. Marth only ***** Fox on FD, Fox ***** marth on poke stad, the other neutrals it's pretty even, I'd give Fox the favor in the matchup though. Marth's just easier to not mess up tech skill with, but Fox is a better character.

 

[TheLake]

Spam shine, don't grab unless you're sure you can get popo, space bairs on them.

Play smart vs. ICs and don't get too close. I told Swiftbass to spam spine vs. Wobbles at Pound 3 and he won. (in pools)

ggz

Swift practiced that matchup for awhile against pockyDs climbers

We had a fun talk about that match lol wobbles is so beast

but then again so is Jman *shrugs*

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I always mistime my dash-dance grabs when marth's fair so they can jab/utilt/dash away/spot-dodge before my grab comes out lol
His range is so massive, if I time it earlier I just run right into the fair hitbox
I sawk

 

[halcyon.days]

wow that vid is freakin insane, what is going on!?

I believe he gets hit by the klaptrap, SDI's above the platform, then to the right, then down to hit the platform so he can tech it.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

So...how do you ledge jump laser so that you grab the edge going down. Is it just crazy insane timing or what?

I press down then slide from Y-B as fast as I would if i'd JC shine or SHDL

 

[halcyon.days]

I think that jabs are pretty important in fox's game but I hardly ever use them (except for thunders).

I've read that you can, in some situations, replace the shine for a jab, but what are some other exceptions? I want to incorporate more jabs into my fox game.

I could maybe think of instead of doing drillshine -> grab
doing drill -> jab -> usmash?

If they SDI the drill will my jab miss?

 

[CandyAppleBlueCherry]

If you can time your spot dodges well (depends how well you know your opponent) then you can get a free grab off of one most of the time. On bigger stages you can just run away and gayzer all day long pretty much.

Also, learning to edgetech helps a LOT XD unless you're good enough to not get hit off the edge ;P

Lasers are your friend vs marth, also waveshine grabs if they aren't prepared for the shine. If they are, I like to shine, waveshine away and use lasers to bait him over. You can't really do a head-on approach against a good marth though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I sawk

I know amirite

 

[RaynEX]

I know not to DI straight up, it was just for example purposes.

Can you give me an example if I got hit by Marth's fmash? Would I just SDI up and then circle around to DI up+towards? If so, would I do an almost full rotation clockwise or just a 1/8 circle counter clockwise with the control stick?

If you got tippered at a percent where it would normally kill you:

You would smash d.i. up+towards Marth first, so your trajectory changes from super horizontal to angled and vertical. When you begin to fly and get magnified, or if you feel that you might die off the top of the level because you d.i.ed up too much - this is when you circle d.i.

Say you got hit from the left and are flying to the right. Assuming you are in the situation I just described, you would slide the stick up, then up and away. This would help so that you didn't die off the top. You are basically abandoning your upwards d.i. slowly because of the risk that you might fly off the top unintentionally. Its not that complicated. Most people do it without even knowing, instinctively.

I think that jabs are pretty important in fox's game but I hardly ever use them (except for thunders).

I've read that you can, in some situations, replace the shine for a jab, but what are some other exceptions? I want to incorporate more jabs into my fox game.

I could maybe think of instead of doing drillshine -> grab
doing drill -> jab -> usmash?

If they SDI the drill will my jab miss?

No, the jab has enough range to poke them after an SDIed drill. Jab is faster than shield grab too, so you can substitute it.

There is way too much talk of SDI in this thread. Most people out there can't SDI to save their life anyways. I only play a few that can SDI drills. The things that are most prevalent, and would really disrupt Fox, is CCing. Its alot more widespread and even more devastating than SDIs.

Jab is good, but I don't suggest you use it after aerials vs. CC spammers such as Peach, Samus, and vs. smart Marths.

 

[RaynEX]

I always mistime my dash-dance grabs when marth's fair so they can jab/utilt/dash away/spot-dodge before my grab comes out lol
His range is so massive, if I time it earlier I just run right into the fair hitbox
I sawk

Run in and hard shield. IF he fairs free usmash. He he runs away WD back out of shield and laser or WD towards him and overshoot a move/grab as he DDs.

 

[BrawlLover]

I believe he gets hit by the klaptrap, SDI's above the platform, then to the right, then down to hit the platform so he can tech it.

i tried itlike omg it doesn't work!!!!

 

[halcyon.days]

Jab is good, but I don't suggest you use it after aerials vs. CC spammers such as Peach, Samus, and vs. smart Marths.

I actually don't have too much trouble against CC spammers, but that's because I drillshine spam >_>

 

[CandyAppleBlueCherry]

EDIT: double post DX

 

[CandyAppleBlueCherry]

Run in and hard shield. IF he fairs free usmash. He he runs away WD back out of shield and laser or WD towards him and overshoot a move/grab as he DDs.

Grab grab grab. Seriously if you spam this you're just handing them a free chaingrab XD

Unless you mean do this when he's still in the air, in which case, he can just land and grab anyways.

Evo east 2k7 mew2king vs PC chris shows it perfectly... you don't wanna get grabbed

 

[CanISmash]

im pretty awesome at teching and it does like jack **** against marth. half his moves go over the stage where it's not techable. i say it's a lot harder to stay on the stage then it is to kill marth. and off stage = easy deaths.

 

[RaynEX]

lol. I feel like the majority of the things I type are unread and meaningless. I should start making shorter posts.

edit: I found the perfect example of how not to post.

http://www.smashboards.com/search.php?searchid=1775123

ive never seen so many one liners in my life.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

or you culd just read mango's posting :/