Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Excel_Zero]

These boards seriously need more activity, so i've decided i'm gonna write several articles/ interactive articles for it. (similar to JFox's counterpick stages).

How about this? We could like make a guide on how to take on Fox with different characters. That way the people knows what to expect when they face certain opponents and how to handle with every single situation. For example:

Peach:

-Can chaingrab Fox from around 50-110%.
-Downsmash can hit twice at low % because of Fox falling speed.
-Peach can edgeguard Fox very well with a well placed fair on the ledge.

How to counter it:

-DI onto platforms or out of stage if there are no platforms nearby, but watch out when you DI outside since many Peach players tend to Fthrow you when you DI out of stage, and a bad placed DI can be the end of your stock.
-Try to stay out of the dsmash range and avoid CC when you see one coming.
-Just Firefox above her D:


just some examples here I'm not putting much thought on them, but I think it's a great idea. What do you guys think?

 

[Professor Pro]

when your fox and your running to someone and you do a smash attack everyone says you should crouch cancel then do the smash attack. but wouldnt it look more effective if you were to wavedash downwards and then do the smash or is there a difference in lag or something can someone tell me?

 

[4 Aces]

I've learned how to waveshine and drillshine, and I can do it fairly well when I'm not in a match, but it's very hard for me to do them when I'm in a real match, and I can't seem to turn them into real comboes. What I'm saying is that I have trouble incorporating them into my game. Could someone help me out?

 

[4 Aces]

when your fox and your running to someone and you do a smash attack everyone says you should crouch cancel then do the smash attack. but wouldnt it look more effective if you were to wavedash downwards and then do the smash or is there a difference in lag or something can someone tell me?

When I do an up smash or down smash, I just let go of the stick and do the desired smash attack. The only time I would do a crouch cancel is if I wanted to do a forward smash. But to answer your question, I think it would be a bit laggier to do it that way than to just crouch cancel (it would be like trying to waveland straight down - not very useful - at least I don't think...), but I'm not really sure so I hope someone else will clear that up for you. I guess you could try to wavedash toward or away from them and then do the smash attack. Again, I'm not really sure what's effective.

 

[Oskurito]

How about this? We could like make a guide on how to take on Fox with different characters. That way the people knows what to expect when they face certain opponents and how to handle with every single situation. For example:

Peach:

-Can chaingrab Fox from around 50-110%.
-Downsmash can hit twice at low % because of Fox falling speed.
-Peach can edgeguard Fox very well with a well placed fair on the ledge.

How to counter it:

-DI onto platforms or out of stage if there are no platforms nearby, but watch out when you DI outside since many Peach players tend to Fthrow you when you DI out of stage, and a bad placed DI can be the end of your stock.
-Try to stay out of the dsmash range and avoid CC when you see one coming.
-Just Firefox above her D:


just some examples here I'm not putting much thought on them, but I think it's a great idea. What do you guys think?

That will be like making a fox guide but only the match ups part of it. Cunning Kitsune's guide covers a lot of that problems, and Omni's guide is very similar, plus there are some many threads about THIS and THAT. The real problem is that sometimes or ALWAYS people don't use the search function.

Apart from that some people like scotu just like to give advice for increase their postcounts, for spamming, etc. or they're just kind people(like scotu I believe...) but in most of the cases their just spamming...

Btw scotu I didn't mean to bash you or insinuate something or whatever...

 

[brawlpro]

Thanks to this thread any marth(not pro) will get ***** by a fox!

 

[ZeroP]

is the japanese koto the same thunders??????

 

[Oskurito]

is the japanese koto the same thunders??????

Yup, thunders and Koto are the same person

 

[Deleted member]

Can anyone tell me what the thunders combo is. i did a search, but there turned out to be different versions and i didnt know which was the real one. and a vid link would be nice too

 

[Anthony5767]

I have a question? How do you perform the "Doraki Walljump"?

I seen a video of it by Dalal and followed his link that he gave out, that discussed what was on his video, but I didn't find anything on the "Doraki Walljump". Unless I didn't look hard enough, I apologize and thank you.

 

[Goldkirby]

Can anyone tell me what the thunders combo is. i did a search, but there turned out to be different versions and i didnt know which was the real one. and a vid link would be nice too

The sticky labeled Thunder's combo explains the combo and shows the video of it.

Basically it only works on characters that fall to the shine, one major one being falco.

What you do is shine -> wavedash -> jab -> shffled uair -> upsmash

 

[dark_dragon8]

I noticed something (probably really stupid) about Fox's firefox. I always wondered sometimes when going straight up with the firefox that I face the wrong direction. Now this shouldn't be a problem if I sweetspot the edge of course, but what about versus capes? I tried testing.

On FD -fall directly under the edge.
I firefox and hold up (pretty much at sweetspot distance) and I am facing away from the edge.
I firefox by pressing up and away and I face towards the stage.

Is it just my hands or something? I am not really sure if that is how you control the way you face after a vertical firefox. So could somebody clear this up for me? Thanks for answering this question.

 

[SCOTU]

I have a question? How do you perform the "Doraki Walljump"?

I seen a video of it by Dalal and followed his link that he gave out, that discussed what was on his video, but I didn't find anything on the "Doraki Walljump". Unless I didn't look hard enough, I apologize and thank you.

Check Doraki's sticky on flashy movements and mindgames. It involves setting it up by jumping into the wall and grabbing the edge at the peak of your jump.

 

[SCOTU]

hmmm... my edit button isn't working correctly now...

How about this? We could like make a guide on how to take on Fox with different characters. That way the people knows what to expect when they face certain opponents and how to handle with every single situation. For example:

Peach:

-Can chaingrab Fox from around 50-110%.
-Downsmash can hit twice at low % because of Fox falling speed.
-Peach can edgeguard Fox very well with a well placed fair on the ledge.

How to counter it:

-DI onto platforms or out of stage if there are no platforms nearby, but watch out when you DI outside since many Peach players tend to Fthrow you when you DI out of stage, and a bad placed DI can be the end of your stock.
-Try to stay out of the dsmash range and avoid CC when you see one coming.
-Just Firefox above her D:


just some examples here I'm not putting much thought on them, but I think it's a great idea. What do you guys think?

looks exactly like Omni's guide, except Omni's gives pros and cons on each matchup (the ones that are finished anyway)

 

[mastr0fmyd0main3]

1)What's the best/easiest/fastest way to upsmash out of shield? I can't seem to do it to well, and i know PC can get it in after the shine when a falco is pillaring the crap out of his sheild.

2)For double (or more) shines on the ground with fox/falco, do most people who are successful with it use control stick, X, or Y to jump? I'm talking about real tournament play usage, not messing around, eg. full jump, dair, doubleshine on a shield, full jump..repeat..

 

[knightpraetor]

good question..i too was wondering about the upsmash out of shield...is that guaranteed to be faster than the pillar if you time it right?

 

[technomancer]

It more depends if the Falco times it right. Perfect pillaring is near impossible (3-frame timing to have advantage), so if the falco mistimes his down air (aka does it immediately, then fastfalls and shines), you can do really any out of shield attack after the downair, like a JC shine, shieldgrab, or usmash. The timing for the usmash is obviously hardest, but they're all the same: right after Falco downairs. Aho likes to shine out of shield all the time, but sometimes gets f'd up for it lol.

 

[CanISmash]

i need help with shdl. im trying to learn this so bad before i actually learn fox. i mean w/ falco the lasers make him, not the same with fox but i gotta figure this out. any tips. my thumb seems to be really slow unless i touch the very side of the button. i've done the shdl using my index on the b-button but yeah i need some help.

 

[Oskurito]

i need help with shdl. im trying to learn this so bad before i actually learn fox. i mean w/ falco the lasers make him, not the same with fox but i gotta figure this out. any tips. my thumb seems to be really slow unless i touch the very side of the button. i've done the shdl using my index on the b-button but yeah i need some help.

Ok I know three methods that don't require to change your hands position on the controller

1- With the X button(hardest)
Just slide your thumb from X to B (with the tip of your thumb so you don't hit A in the procces) but it isn't as simple as it sounds, you'll require some practice to do it
2-With the Y button (avarage)
The same as number 1 but since the Y button is closer to B you don't require to be too fast making it easier
3-With the control stick(easiest)
Flick the control stick up (but be sure to realease it as soon as possible, because that will determinate if you short hop or not) and then press B twice. This is the method I use

Or either learn "the claw method" and practice a lot to get it...

 

[knightpraetor]

It more depends if the Falco times it right. Perfect pillaring is near impossible (3-frame timing to have advantage), so if the falco mistimes his down air (aka does it immediately, then fastfalls and shines), you can do really any out of shield attack after the downair, like a JC shine, shieldgrab, or usmash. The timing for the usmash is obviously hardest, but they're all the same: right after Falco downairs. Aho likes to shine out of shield all the time, but sometimes gets f'd up for it lol.

not sure what you mean by 3 frame timing..so if you'd explain it'd be nice.

also, for proper pillaring technique.. ie to get perfects..do you do the aerial after the fastfall? i always wondered about that..before or after the fastfall...to get any kind of pillaring at all i know you can't be doing the dair going up.. but when you say mistimed..do you just mean when the falco does the down air going up? or even at other times..

i assume by aho getting screwed over you mean he gets shined comboed..but JC shines aren't any more risky than shieldgrabs no? in fact it's less risky right?

and JC shine is how many frames compared to shieldgrab?

sorry for all the technical questions

one last technical question..is waveshine to fsmash a combo like waveshine to upsmash or is it slower and they can shield or something?

 

[SCOTU]

It more depends if the Falco times it right. Perfect pillaring is near impossible (3-frame timing to have advantage), so if the falco mistimes his down air (aka does it immediately, then fastfalls and shines), you can do really any out of shield attack after the downair, like a JC shine, shieldgrab, or usmash. The timing for the usmash is obviously hardest, but they're all the same: right after Falco downairs. Aho likes to shine out of shield all the time, but sometimes gets f'd up for it lol.

You can always do it right after the shine if the falco likes to pillar late.

i need help with shdl. im trying to learn this so bad before i actually learn fox. i mean w/ falco the lasers make him, not the same with fox but i gotta figure this out. any tips. my thumb seems to be really slow unless i touch the very side of the button. i've done the shdl using my index on the b-button but yeah i need some help.

Fox lasers can make or break a fox.

not sure what you mean by 3 frame timing..so if you'd explain it'd be nice.

Falco's shffld dair will take 26 frames from jump (off ground)>shine. hits on frame 5. i'm not sure, but i think it puts 10 frames of shield hit lag on. Than means you'll have from 15-25 to do an attack. A JC usmash (when done perfectly) takes 8 frames to hit. say you want to hit on frame 25 or before, then you have 3 frames to jc usmash.

also, for proper pillaring technique.. ie to get perfects..do you do the aerial after the fastfall? i always wondered about that..before or after the fastfall...to get any kind of pillaring at all i know you can't be doing the dair going up.. but when you say mistimed..do you just mean when the falco does the down air going up? or even at other times..

Not sure exactly what you're saying... If you're asking how to pillar w/ fox, then check my thread on shield pressure. If you're asking about Falco's he can either Dair ealy to avoid being attacked after shine, or late to make sure the shine will hit (leaving him open after he shines if he does it the same way)

i assume by aho getting screwed over you mean he gets shined comboed..but JC shines aren't any more risky than shieldgrabs no? in fact it's less risky right?

Aho probably left the ground because he shined too late, leaving him really vulnerable

and JC shine is how many frames compared to shieldgrab?

Check the thread here on shield pressure

sorry for all the technical questions

No problem, i'm always up for answering them.

one last technical question..is waveshine to fsmash a combo like waveshine to upsmash or is it slower and they can shield or something?

It's a combo if you can do it fast enough. If it's on a character you have to dash for, i.e. marth, you can't fsmash because you can't jc an fsmash.

No real reason to waveshine>fsmash though. Waveshine>dmsash is faster, and gives a better angle (for the smasher)

 

[knightpraetor]

thanks scotu, you're the man..anyways i never realized that pillaring was not a true combo..i thought you only had like 5 frames not 8..i thought you could only roll by buffering and that shieldgrabbing was not an option..but basically it is..you just need perfect timing and a fast grab.

also, does light shield vs heavy shield effect stun time? i really need to learn more tech stuff obviously..

lemmme make sure i understand this right..the dair hits on frame 5 at earliest? if it'd done going up? so if i see them doing it going up i should try to do something to act after the dair, and if i see them doing it very late going down..i should try to either jump out and nair or roll away like per usual

if they're doing it late going down is it technically possible to try to grab them after the shine?

regardless i assume the timing on all this is mad hard..oh and this would only work against dair pillaring no? so against nair pillaring you can't jump out and aerial


anyways, what moves in top tier char tend to be capable of getting out in 8 frames. I'm going to list possibilities..i've always been told to use these moves and i do from time to time..but i always assumed that when it worked it was because falco was messing up pillaring timing

sheik - grab and shieldjumped nair
falco, JC Shine
fox, jc shine, jc upsmash, grab
falcon - grab
marth -grab..nair from shield?

anyways those are the char i play..all top tier but the only ones i'm serious about are fox marth and sheik...falco is just fun to practice pillaring with...but anyways, if shieldjumped nairs like sheik's can work i guess it depends on how fast the nair comes out and if it hits horizontally enough?

grr--and no link there for shield pressure..i'll go find it hopefully

 

[4 Aces]

I have a lot of questions, so bear with me. What's a good way to practice the shdl, and how do you guys do it? I've been practicing that one, but I can't seem to get it down.

Second, I'm having trouble incorporating the shine into my game like startups and follow throughs to the shine (I hope I'm making sense). And whenever I actually manage to hit with it, I screw up on everything that follows. God, I feel like I practiced with that one since forever.

Third, I was wondering about the dashed shine to upsmash: do you upsmash immediately or do you wait a bit before upsmashing?

And lastly I want to know everything about the JC Shine or multishine (frame data, how to, ways to, when to, uses, etc.). Ever since I saw that move in perfect control, it became my favorite move in the game (it was also somewhere in that time that I started to learn advanced techniques and taking my first steps toward denoobifying myself), and I've tried countless times to execute that move, but I could never do.

 

[Oskurito]

I have a lot of questions, so bear with me. What's a good way to practice the shdl, and how do you guys do it? I've been practicing that one, but I can't seem to get it down.

Second, I'm having trouble incorporating the shine into my game like startups and follow throughs to the shine (I hope I'm making sense). And whenever I actually manage to hit with it, I screw up on everything that follows. God, I feel like I practiced with that one since forever.

Third, I was wondering about the dashed shine to upsmash: do you upsmash immediately or do you wait a bit before upsmashing?

And lastly I want to know everything about the JC Shine or multishine (frame data, how to, ways to, when to, uses, etc.). Ever since I saw that move in perfect control, it became my favorite move in the game (it was also somewhere in that time that I started to learn advanced techniques and taking my first steps toward denoobifying myself), and I've tried countless times to execute that move, but I could never do.

1.- Keep practicing it, eventually your fingers should get used to it
2.-If you ment waveshining you can hold the control stick in the direction you want to waveshine (south east or either south west) and then press b+X(jump)+L until you get the timing for it, if your waveshines aren't long enough to follow try to walk a little and then waveshine again(hold the control stick without pressing nothing for a little period of time) just keep in mind that you can't walk too much cause the stun time of the shine will end and so your combo...
3.- yup you'll require the momentum of the dash to connect with the upsmash after the shine. So you run and press down+b and up smash with the control stick or either press up on the control stick and up on the C-stick
4.-I don't have the data know, but i'm sure scotu can answer that... Uh don't bother on mastering it, it's almost impossible to do, I can just do 6 or 8 JC shine(fast) and 16(slow) is my record

 

[4 Aces]

Oops! I accidentally spammed cuz I thought my post didn't go through so I changed it to this. Sorry!

Thanks Oskurito! But I think you misunderstood what I meant about one of my Q's.

I can waveshine at a fairly decent level and with consistency during traing mode or when I'm practicing. What I meant about #2 was that I have trouble using it during battle and I can't seem to get a good setup for the shine, like my shffl'd drillkick would fail or it would get out-prioritized by a fair or whatever. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the frantic heat of battle really gets to me and I can't seem to pull it off.

About #3, so...do you wait a little or do you upsmash immediately? Sorry, but I was confused about what you meant.

One other thing: is it generally a better idea when waveshining to put the control stick back to the neutral position before wavedashing instead of rolling it? Just wondering because I put it back to neutral (or at least close enough to it) and I was wondering if it affects the rate at which you do perfect waveshines.

Man...I must be annoying with all of these Q's...something must be done...

*goes into corner and beats himself with a homerun bat*

 

[dark_dragon8]

I noticed something (probably really stupid) about Fox's firefox. I always wondered sometimes when going straight up with the firefox that I face the wrong direction. Now this shouldn't be a problem if I sweetspot the edge of course, but what about versus capes? I tried testing.

On FD -fall directly under the edge.
I firefox and hold up (pretty much at sweetspot distance) and I am facing away from the edge.
I firefox by pressing up and away and I face towards the stage.

Is it just my hands or something? I am not really sure if that is how you control the way you face after a vertical firefox. So could somebody clear this up for me? Thanks for answering this question.

Could somebody help me with this?

 

[SCOTU]

Oops! I accidentally spammed cuz I thought my post didn't go through so I changed it to this. Sorry!

Thanks Oskurito! But I think you misunderstood what I meant about one of my Q's.

I can waveshine at a fairly decent level and with consistency during traing mode or when I'm practicing. What I meant about #2 was that I have trouble using it during battle and I can't seem to get a good setup for the shine, like my shffl'd drillkick would fail or it would get out-prioritized by a fair or whatever. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the frantic heat of battle really gets to me and I can't seem to pull it off.

About #3, so...do you wait a little or do you upsmash immediately? Sorry, but I was confused about what you meant.

One other thing: is it generally a better idea when waveshining to put the control stick back to the neutral position before wavedashing instead of rolling it? Just wondering because I put it back to neutral (or at least close enough to it) and I was wondering if it affects the rate at which you do perfect waveshines.

Man...I must be annoying with all of these Q's...something must be done...

*goes into corner and beats himself with a homerun bat*

You usmash as fast as you can after the shine.

On Multishining, It's:
frame 1: jump starts
2,3
4:leave ground, shine comes out (add three more fames here if you hit something.
5,6,7 land
8, shine again

No, there is no difference between the light shield and heavy shield in terms of shield stun, just traction.

On waveshining, i roll the control stick back and forth, and just press the buttons correctly as i go.

There is no such thing as annoying w/ too many questions, so long as it's in this thread, (not making a new thread for each).

On getting shines in: that's just something you're gonna have to find out yourself. I like to shl around until there's an opeing, then shffl a nair/ dair. if the nair's at low %'s it'll combo into a shine.

Could somebody help me with this?

Honestly, that confuses me too.

 

[4 Aces]

You usmash as fast as you can after the shine.

On Multishining, It's:
frame 1: jump starts
2,3
4:leave ground, shine comes out (add three more fames here if you hit something.
5,6,7 land
8, shine again

No, there is no difference between the light shield and heavy shield in terms of shield stun, just traction.

On waveshining, i roll the control stick back and forth, and just press the buttons correctly as i go.

There is no such thing as annoying w/ too many questions, so long as it's in this thread, (not making a new thread for each).

On getting shines in: that's just something you're gonna have to find out yourself. I like to shl around until there's an opeing, then shffl a nair/ dair. if the nair's at low %'s it'll combo into a shine.



Honestly, that confuses me too.

Hey, it's me again. YAY! I did it! I did the multishine (even though it was at slow frame speed). Thanks for the info!!!

I think you messed up when you gave me the frame data though.
You got most of it right up until when Fox is off the ground:
Frame 4: Fox is off the ground, shine comes out (add three if you hit stuff) <-Correct
Frame 5,6,7: Fox lands <-Not so correct. Fox is still in the air here.
Frame 8: Shine again<-Incorrect. This is when Fox lands.

And then on frame 9 you jump and repeat the process.

So if someone pulls up a shield, and I hit it with a shine (or any move), they get pushed back and they are stuck in their shield for a short amount of time? Is this what you meant by shield stun and traction? Sorry if this sounds kind of noobish, but I've never really heard of this.

Again with the multishine: What are the/how many ways do people pull off this move? i.e.: BXB <-REALLY fast, using the control stick, using finger nails, sliding fingers, clawing <-WHAT IS THAT?! I REALLY want to pull off this move even if it's just during training mode (or taunting).

On average, what is the probability of pulling off a perfect waveshine when attempting a waveshine? And when you DO pull off a perfect waveshine, how do you know? And do you need to walk a bit to waveshine combo them if you did a perfect waveshine? I think I do pretty well when it comes to perfect waveshines, but I don't really have any indication to tell me whether I'm doing it right or not, so that's why I'm asking.

"There is no such thing as annoying w/ too many questions, so long as it's in this thread, (not making a new thread for each)." -Scotu. Thanks, that means a lot. Like I said before, I have A LOT of questions. Another...big...post...

 

[SCOTU]

Hey, it's me again. YAY! I did it! I did the multishine (even though it was at slow frame speed). Thanks for the info!!!

I think you messed up when you gave me the frame data though.
You got most of it right up until when Fox is off the ground:
Frame 4: Fox is off the ground, shine comes out (add three if you hit stuff) <-Correct
Frame 5,6,7: Fox lands <-Not so correct. Fox is still in the air here.
Frame 8: Shine again<-Incorrect. This is when Fox lands.

And then on frame 9 you jump and repeat the process.

Yeah, that's right, i forgot mislabeled the part about landings, and that confused me. I knew there were three frames in the air.

So if someone pulls up a shield, and I hit it with a shine, they get pushed back and they are stuck in their shield for a short amount of time? Is this what you meant by shield stun and traction? Sorry if this sounds kind of noobish, but I've never really heard of this.

Exactly. Each move gives a certain # of frames of Shield hit lag that they can't do anything w/ their shield during. Also, when an attack hits their shield, they'll slide a bit, this traction is determined both by the traction of the character, and the "density" (heavy vs light) of their shield.

Again with the multishine: What are the/how many ways do people pull off this move? i.e.: BXB <-REALLY fast, using the control stick, using finger nails, sliding fingers, clawing <-WHAT IS THAT?! I REALLY want to pull off this move even if it's just during training mode (or taunting).

What you're doing here is just jumping, then shining the moment you're in the air, so you can use any jump method and press down b. I personally slide my thumb from y>b, lift it, and start over again (don't slide back to y, as this will limit your ending options).

The "Claw" is just a term for a variety of ways of holding the controller with an index finger on one or more of the buttons. It's not necessary, and i don't recommend using it.

On average, what is the probability of pulling off a perfect waveshine when attempting a waveshine? And when you DO pull off a perfect waveshine, how do you know? And do you need to walk a bit to waveshine combo them if you did a perfect waveshine? I think I do pretty well when it comes to perfect waveshines, but I don't really have any indication to tell me whether I'm doing it right or not, so that's why I'm asking.

1. there is no probability, there is a success rate that is person specific (mine's over 90%)
2. You know because you're awesome (there isn't really a good way to tell, unless you're waveshine comboing a luigi, then you know you've done it right).
3. Depends on the traction of the character, sheik and less can be comboed w/o walking (sheik might take a step, i'm not exactly sure). greater than sheik (i.e. marios, ness, marth) you need to dash you of your perfect waveshines.

"There is no such thing as annoying w/ too many questions, so long as it's in this thread, (not making a new thread for each)." -Scotu. Thanks, that means a lot. Like I said before, I have A LOT of questions. Another...big...post...

This is a very intelligent, non-flammable discussion in which one person shares their knowledge w/ another for the common good. This is not a n00b conversation at all, nor are they n00b questions. n00b questions are very simple things that have been asked many times, and have a new thread for them each time they are asked. there are a ton of "how do i waveshine" threads. Those are n00b questions because they didn't check stickies/ ask here. Answering questions like these are actually really fun, so go ahead.

Note: further discussion on shield pressure, and other shield related topics would be more suited for the thread on shield pressure, so the knowlege is all there, not spread between here, there, and some new thread on fox pillaring when he didn't look 1/4 of the way down the page before posting (n00b question...). I guess i'm defining a n00b question as a question asked when there is already a thread explaining it on the first page of the fox boards.

 

[4 Aces]

I'm BAAaacck! It's been a while since I've been on here (well...just a day, but...yeah...). So on youtube, I saw this video where Silent Wolf and Eggz were battling and at about 00:45 seconds (just after Silent Wolf stocked one of Eggz's lives) Silent Wolf starts taunting and showing off by waveshining while turning around after each shine. It was pretty cool. Well my point is how is he doing it? Does he shine -> turn around -> wavedash -> shine -> turn around -> etc, etc? Some frame data would be great too.

Just a curious question, but um...since there is 3 frames of hitlag after you shine someone, would it mean that the speed and rate at which you waveshine while hitting someone would be slower than when you waveshine open space?

One last question: This regards the foward-reverse waveshine infinite once mentioned in Dalal's "Fox Movement Tricks" thread and in CunningKitsune's Fox guide. I feel that both aren't very clear when it comes to the details and instructions when performing them. Do you wavedash again after you waveshine? And if so, does the wavedash need to be shorter, where the control stick is in the lower diagonal notch? I tried testing it in the debug menu, and I think you do, but I'm no expert at this and I'd rather not jump to conclusions. Again, frame data would also be appreciated.

Does it take 3 frames for Fox to turn around in the shine? <- Ok, that's the last one.

Thanks in advance!

 

[4 Aces]

Darn it! I did it again! I accidentally posted the exact same thing! So I changed it to this. Yeah, I'm still pretty new to this.

 

[mastr0fmyd0main3]

I'll ask again, what's the easiest/best way to upsmash out of sheild?

 

[fox-415]

i have 1 question. is it bad to jc grab with fox often? becuase i seem to do it all the time.

 

[Twin_A]

I'll ask again, what's the easiest/best way to upsmash out of sheild?

when in your shield press up on both the joystick and the c stick at the same time.

 

[ZeroP]

i dont know if this technik is new but let me explain it.

if f.e.: falco does an ariel into my foxs shield, i can't grap him cause he does lc. SO iam doing an shine out of my shield right after his ariel hit my shield. but after the shine i should stand. like a double shine just out of the shield. ist that good? or should i forget it?

i have 1 question. is it bad to jc grab with fox often? becuase i seem to do it all the time.

no it is better then a normal grab. but if u do it too often it is a bad mindgame. so if u grab too often u will become predictable

Did i make mistakes? pls tell me cause i have to improve my english

 

[SCOTU]

I'm BAAaacck! It's been a while since I've been on here (well...just a day, but...yeah...). So on youtube, I saw this video where Silent Wolf and Eggz were battling and at about 00:45 seconds (just after Silent Wolf stocked one of Eggz's lives) Silent Wolf starts taunting and showing off by waveshining while turning around after each shine. It was pretty cool. Well my point is how is he doing it? Does he shine -> turn around -> wavedash -> shine -> turn around -> etc, etc? Some frame data would be great too.

That's exactly what Silent's doing. Frame data's something like this:
shine, (don't know exactly when the first frame you can turn around is), turnaround takes 3 frames, wavedash (14 frames total), shine again, repeat.

Just a curious question, but um...since there is 3 frames of hitlag after you shine someone, would it mean that the speed and rate at which you waveshine while hitting someone would be slower than when you waveshine open space?

Theoretically, yes. But since you don't really need to go faster than the waveshine while hitting someone, there is no point in doing it faster in open space.

One last question: This regards the foward-reverse waveshine infinite once mentioned in Dalal's "Fox Movement Tricks" thread and in CunningKitsune's Fox guide. I feel that both aren't very clear when it comes to the details and instructions when performing them. Do you wavedash again after you waveshine? And if so, does the wavedash need to be shorter, where the control stick is in the lower diagonal notch? I tried testing it in the debug menu, and I think you do, but I'm no expert at this and I'd rather not jump to conclusions. Again, frame data would also be appreciated.

No, you just need to Perfect Waveshine. Helps to do: waveshine> waveshine past> waveshine>waveshine past>repeat.

Note: this technique doesn't get used often since it sucks.

Does it take 3 frames for Fox to turn around in the shine? <- Ok, that's the last one.

Thanks in advance!

Yes.

i dont know if this technik is new but let me explain it.

if f.e.: falco does an ariel into my foxs shield, i can't grap him cause he does lc. SO iam doing an shine out of my shield right after his ariel hit my shield. but after the shine i should stand. like a double shine just out of the shield. ist that good? or should i forget it?


no it is better then a normal grab. but if u do it too often it is a bad mindgame. so if u grab too often u will become predictable

Did i make mistakes? pls tell me cause i have to improve my english

That's a perfectly legitimate strategy. You can also wait until after he shines. Try to Thunder's combo off of it. Your English is fine.

 

[Shynobi]

Not really important, just curious.
I've been watching tons of 1v1 fox vids lately, and I've seen some of them Do a little signature taunt each time they make a kill. Basically they stay in place and keep jabing at a fast pace. If anyone could tell me how, That would be great. Thank you. =)

 

[Shynobi]

Not really important, just curious.
I've been watching tons of 1v1 fox vids lately, and I've seen some of them Do a little signature taunt each time they make a kill. Basically they stay in place and keep jabing at a fast pace. If you could tell me how, That would be great. Thank you. =)

 

[SCOTU]

Jab Cancelling.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=82535

 

[PurpsTheTurtle]

how can a fox aproacht a falco that is spamming lazers under a platform... it seems like if you come from above the platforms you get hit but if you don't he will just sit there and spam