Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Bones0]

Do it faster and don't push all the way down. Do a small semi circle just low enough to register the crouch.

 

[Allagro]

Lol fast isn't a problem. I was thinking I was doing it too fast, and thanks for the fast reply. Imma try that out right now.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can't do it too fast. The faster the better. Theoretically if you can skip the down motion if you can get directly to the other side in one frame. That is a "perfect" moonwalk

 

[genkaku]

so spacies moonwalks are exactly like falcon's only they start from walk instead of initial dash and you have to be quicker?

 

[Strong Badam]

You can't do it too fast. The faster the better. Theoretically if you can skip the down motion if you can get directly to the other side in one frame. That is a "perfect" moonwalk

iirc it's a 2 frame window. dash frame 1 back frame 3. it's how I moonwalk

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

huh thats good to know

 

[DerfMidWest]

how do you tech marth's counter when recovering? Its quite difficult for me to time :\

 

[Bones0]

You have to do it really late. You should really never be up-Bing in a position where you can't avoid it though. If you angle properly you will set it off but avoid the hit. BF and PS may cause some problems though.

 

[Wenbobular]

Walkoff counter is also a thing

 

[omgwtfToph]

walkoff counter is pretty bad because if fox does an angle that hugs the ledge, he can walltech

 

[KirbyKaze]

I find ledgehop counter hits lower than normal counter but I may just be imagining things. And nobody uses it anyway.

 

[unknown522]

*****es don't know about the triple counter edgeguard

 

[Bones0]

I find ledgehop counter hits lower than normal counter but I may just be imagining things. And nobody uses it anyway.

Well I'm sure it hits them lower because assuming they are coming from below the stage, you are hitting them sooner after the start of their up-B.

 

[voorhese]

Actually sveet, when I played today my opponent would try to grab me out of the air when he knew I was going to do a late aerial, he was successful a couple of times, was that just me being bad? or does that work?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I dunno if you're trying to be difficult or legitimately struggling with a simple principle.

I have a lot of trouble when my opponent is coming back with a fresh stock, replete with invincibility and, therefore, stage control.

So I was thinking, what if I light shield on the platform more as a mixup? You can shield drop to anything: shine, waveland, forward b edge cancel.

If you light shield on the edge and they hit you off you can bair or shine before their move hits you?

Example: On the right platform on Yoshi's Story, facing left, teetering off the platform. Marth, from below, nairs you. The first hit of his nair pushes you off. Your bair hits him before the second hit strikes you.

Is that accurate? What about Fox/Falco's uair? Peach's dair? Falcon's nair? Any other multiple hit move?

The below is in reference to lightshielding on platforms in general as a defense, not so much as a between stocks thing (although some of the principles below still apply to between stocks). I think between stocks it's okay as long as there's a good chunk of actionable time between the opponent's multi-hit attacks so you can DJ to safety, because you obviously cannot fall on invincible characters with attacks even if they're vulnerable (you'll get ***** for this).

Of the viable characters, this kind of thing works best vs Sheik, Puff, and Peach. Peach's dair requires her to jump in a very obvious fashion to hit you on a top platform doing this (side platforms are slightly less obvious but she still has that huge windup getting to you), whereas Sheik simply lacks a multi-hit aerial (aside from aerial needles I guess, but that play is easy enough to spot). Sheik can u-tilt in response to this, but I think that one is stage dependent. Puff is basically everything applicable to Peach so just mentally duplicate (almost) everything about Peach for her and remember that pound does a lot of shield damage.

Regarding your specific "Can I hit them between stuff?" questions... I think it's possible to hit Marth between the swings on his nair, judging from the frame data, but it would be a tight timing.

Marth N-Air

Total: 49
Hit: 6-7, 15-21
Auto cancel: <5 25>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

It looks like there's an 8 frame window, but I'd be worried about his spacing on the nair and a few other things (do you really fall off the platform immediately or are there some frames burned by Fox, etc). At any rate, I would expect there to be a window for action (shine and DJ are obviously still fair game probably).

I think Falcon's nair is gonna work similarly.

Captain Falcon N-Air

Total: 44
Hit: 7-12, 20-29
Auto cancel: <3 34>
Landlag: 15
Lcanceled: 7

From what I can tell, that's the end of the good news. Against Fox's uair (and dair, I suppose) this will not work very often if ever. Same for Falco's uair. The gap between the hits of the uair is something like 2-3 frames and bair takes 4 to come out. The best you can hope for is a shine, which requires a very close to frame perfect timing (and again, I'm not sure if you lose some time falling off or if it's instant or what).

I don't really consider Peach's dair much of a threat to this strat because it's easy to react to her coming in to attack with it and she can't DJ into stuff to catch you moving out of shield either (I suppose she can umbrella, but that's DIable and kind of flimsy anyway). Because of this, I didn't bother to check her frame data.

 

[Bones0]

I slide off bair inbetween Marth nairs pretty frequently. Definitely something worth using.

 

[PB&J]

im going to record alot of matches sooon with alot of decent players. Some critique would be much appreciated

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Actually sveet, when I played today my opponent would try to grab me out of the air when he knew I was going to do a late aerial, he was successful a couple of times, was that just me being bad? or does that work?

was this a reference to a past conversation?

 

[Divinokage]

*****es don't know about the triple counter edgeguard

Counter firefox, dropzone counter to DJ counter way off-stage? lol.

 

[unknown522]

Indeed

 

[voorhese]

You can't do it too fast. The faster the better. Theoretically if you can skip the down motion if you can get directly to the other side in one frame. That is a "perfect" moonwalk

Yes, but i think i missread it last time. I read late aerial -> shine -> late aerial -> dash, not the 1st 2 OR the 2nd 2

 

[Lovage]

pulsefire ez = NOOOOOOOOB

 

[voorhese]

Hey now sir, calm down. Ad ahri is where it's at.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yes, but i think i missread it last time. I read late aerial -> shine -> late aerial -> dash, not the 1st 2 OR the 2nd 2

oh gotcha!

 

[DerfMidWest]

Ok so I'm really pissed with myself right now because apparently after two years of playing this game seriously I still can't SHFFL Nairs into shine, which shouldn't even be a problem since i practice it for an hour everyday when I wake up and it feels second nature against computers an stuff, but whenever I play against other people I just feel like I have no technical ability whatsoever.
How do I fix this?
Because practicing isn't working.
And I play against other people like everyday.

Advice is appreciated.

 

[Warhawk]

Well can you describe more in-depth the problem maybe? Like when do you seem to most mess up your nair->shines? Where in the inputs do you seem to fall short? Are you maybe just practicing a set timing for your shffls and your opponent throws off your timing with their shield or slight change in positioning since a computer is predictable and less likely to do something like that? Are you just nervous maybe? When you practice tech skill do you look at yourself and not your opponent/dummy (when playing another person this could mess you up since your focus should shift to your opponent)?

 

[omgwtfToph]

Focus harder when you play people. Practicing stuff in a vacuum isn't the same as practicing stuff against real people, because there's pressure in battle that isn't there when you're practicing.

 

[Bones0]

Focus on the FF timing (you can't input it until the last few 1-2 frames of hitlag) and L-cancel as late as possible. You should be able to land the L-cancel whether you hit them or not. A lot of people L-cancel too early, and it ends up making them miss L-cancels when people spotdodge their aerials.

 

[Coffeeblack]

Press Y
Then A
Then L
Then down B

Srsly there's no way around it lol. Practice does make perfect eveen if it takes time

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

find a friend to practice tech skill with. move around, practice combos, unlimited time, w/e. eventually you will fight (doesn't take very long with my friends) and when you do, try the stuff you are learning. No pressure to win; just freestyle

 

[rokimomi]

Stop playing the compies for a while since you vs people every day.
If possible, post a vid of you missing all these nair shines and I'd say someone would be able to point out a flaw or two.

 

[Aefice]

hey, wheres the vids of peepee mango commentary? youtube link?

also. vs marth on fd. when getting cg'd whats the best way to DI to minimize damage from the cg?

 

[unknown522]

It's not on youtube

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think I'm mostly messing up because I'm nervous. It happens most in matchups that I'm scared of (i.e. Peach, because if I choke I get dsmashed) or maybe it happens all the time and I only notice it in those matchups... I'm not really sure...
I have no problem L-canceling on shields, its just me hitting my opponent, then missing the L-cancel for some reason.
And what makes me frustrated is that I can L-cancel... It was one of the first things I learned, and I don't remember having a problem with it until recently.
But how do I get over being nervous? Because its not like I'm new to playing with other people, I do it all the time and I have tournament experience... These were just friendlies...
There wasn't any pressure on me to win or anything, there never is because I lose to all my friends and I'm used to it by now, so I'm not sure what was making me nervous.

 

[Divinokage]

You should try to eliminate the influence of each pre-determined moves you think are really bad for you. Which means even if you get shine spiked or get absolutely destroyed by a move you hate, you should already be thinking ahead of what you should be doing.. and not what happened to you in the past. If you get shook like that then it's impossible to create strategies in important moments like this. Getting owned WILL happen no matter what level you are, it's inevitable so you have to try to do everything to prevent that and keep thinking about how you should defend yourself, how you should counter-attack, how you should bait.. etc., etc.

Basically, keep your cool.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I don't understand what you are saying.
I approached with Nair, I botched an L-cancel, I got Dsmashed.
Then it happened again.
And then a bunch more.

 

[Divinokage]

Then get your L-cancels? Or if you aren't confident in your L-cancels, then you'd have to space safely where she can't Dsmash out of shield or do your aerials later on the shield so it's a bit easier to time the L-cancel.

That means you hate getting Dsmashed, eliminate that mindset.

You said you were nervous, that can mean a lot of things.. I was just trying to give you perspective on what possible things can happen when you are nervous. It's definitely something in the mindset.. if not then it's something revolved around the basic input aspects.

 

[Silent Wolf]

new games vs bladewise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7osURNOuFQ&feature=plcp

i went falco for the other 2 sets tho

 

[omgwtfToph]

To Bing/Unknown:

Where are the vids from the Impulse stream? Specifically the finals sets.

 

[Lovage]

I think I'm mostly messing up because I'm nervous. It happens most in matchups that I'm scared of (i.e. Peach, because if I choke I get dsmashed) or maybe it happens all the time and I only notice it in those matchups... I'm not really sure...
I have no problem L-canceling on shields, its just me hitting my opponent, then missing the L-cancel for some reason.
And what makes me frustrated is that I can L-cancel... It was one of the first things I learned, and I don't remember having a problem with it until recently.
But how do I get over being nervous? Because its not like I'm new to playing with other people, I do it all the time and I have tournament experience... These were just friendlies...
There wasn't any pressure on me to win or anything, there never is because I lose to all my friends and I'm used to it by now, so I'm not sure what was making me nervous.

hard to say this without sounding like a **** but

ur not nervous you just suck!!