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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

V

valgar2900

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
217
Location
houston
sw can you make a outline on the 1st page ppl wouldnt have to go lookin thru all pages?

ps toph can you go over some fox/falco matches?
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
4,486
Location
San Jose
I don't really think I'm the right guy for that job. Plus I only wrote a bunch of vs. puff stuff because I feel like it's a relatively obscure/un-explored matchup as far as the neutral game goes, i.e. a lot of people aren't aware of all the options they have at any given time when fighting puff.
 
C

ChewySHFFLS

Guest
What's good everybody! I'm new to the site, but definitely not new the game. I have recently gotten very serious about Melee and I am here to learn all that I can. I played Melee when I was younger, but had no clue how competitive it could be. ALL the tricks, techs, and skills were something I would have loved to know about sooner, but here I am. I play Melee almost everyday,and I want to become a serious player. I'm definitely not a bad player, I just want to get much better. Fox is my main, and any advice would be accepted. I hope to enter in some type of tournament, but I must prepare. I know the concept of SHFFLNG, but can not perfectly execute. Thanks everybody, LONG LIVE SMASH BROS.
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
ChewySHFFLS said:
I'm definitely not a bad player

I know the concept of SHFFLNG, but can not perfectly execute
Click to expand...
While it's good to have a positive mindset, you might find the first statement a little off if the second statement is true

Find other competitive Smashers near you and start playing them
Browsing the regional boards / tournament listings should be a good place to start
Don't get discouraged if you don't do as well as you expect in your first tourney

If you have recording equipment, posting vids is a good way to get input
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,821
Location
Mos Eisley
collectively, this thread probably has the highest degree of talent frequently posting in it than any thread on smashboards

why dont we have a new guide lol
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
It's bad to attempt grabs when they haven't committed to a move. If they crouch hit them with downwards ftilt, go above them and dair first nair, space bair.. anything but grab if they crouch lol.
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
4,486
Location
San Jose
Divinokage said:
Qft? That's also why the community is generally negative.
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This, lol. The average skill level these days is honestly very high. I think "everyone sucks" is a pretty sheltered view. Melee is an extremely difficult game even compared to other competitive fighters, and there are a million ways to play all of the good characters so I don't fault anyone who isn't "good" for not being "good."
 
Bing

Bing

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
4,885
Location
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Also to add to what Toph put, for players getting into competitive smash at this stage in its life, is a very difficult thing to do. I mean like Toph said, its an incredibly difficult game that requires a lot of attention and well skill. So players (Like myself even) who have to climb such a high ladder to catch up the other players who have had years of experience is a very difficult task.
 
Lovage

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
the average skill level today is really god damn high. put the people placing 4th-7th at locals in a crewbattle vs. the same kind of players from 2008, it would be no contest.

at the same time tho, for the people at the highest levels (the top 5,) everyone sucks fat ****.
 
leffen

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I honestly blame to top players for a lot of new players/average players laziness.

PP, Armada and HBox all play in a very set way, and doesn't use any of the newly developed and never implements something themselves (well I guess armada did some work before genesis 1 but not much if anything since then)

Mango also cannot do lots of the new stuff, and is a johning whiny ***** that encourages people to john and never "try" (unintended or not).

M2K is still stuck in 2009, and constantly complains about EVERYTHING. He also largely relies on self made gimmicks that **** players who don't know them but gets opened up by the top players, which is one of the reasons Marth players still cannot combo for **** (m2k's true comboing even on FD is actually bad) and most players learn flashy, gimmicky stuff instead of things that work all the time.

No top player uses Shield drops, option selects, powershield (barring a bit of armada), proper doubleshines etc...

Compare this to any other FGC/Esport where its the top players that constantly develop new technology, show it, make it the standard, not the mid level players who find something and then 4 years later people START looking into all the extremely useful stuff there is.

Smash players also suffer from low confidence etc, compared to the other games where people are both more mature and have more confidence. I'm tired of seeing people say "I wanna be as good as M2K at gimping/comboing" "I wanna be as aggressive as Mango" "I wanna be as consistent as armada" **** DAT ****

If you're gonna make it to their level, you gotta aim higher. People should be thinking "I wanna be the most consistent there is, but I wanna use all the high risk/high reward that Armada just doesn't wanna use" or "I wanna an aggressive playstyle just like Mango, but I'll be more consistent and have a better defense"

Of course, you can still watch them for inspiration and advice, but the problem is that most people aim to copy, not surpass


I'm obviously working hard to change this. I won't really be releasing tech until I've become (one of) the best though (everyone having twice my exp is a huge disadvantage, so I gotta do what I can)

EDIT: An important thing to add is that 95% of the playerbase of ANY GAME (and life)will not learn new tech unless they are handfed. Its not really until they are repetitively shown that one thing is good that they start to look into it and explore it (in esports this commonly happens when top players who everyone watches implements something new).
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
leffen said:
I'm obviously working hard to change this. I won't really be releasing tech until I've become (one of) the best though (everyone having twice my exp is a huge disadvantage, so I gotta do what I can)
Click to expand...
Share with me, I love being cutting edge
Except being cutting edge for me is actually what I think the standard should be but everyone is still stuck in 2005 for a bunch of the things you mentioned
 
leffen

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
I'm not really interested in telling people even more of my privately developed techniques. Look through my post history if you want to find out stuff

Though I haven't really posted much Fox/Falco stuff, since those are the things I don't want people to learn yet.
 
omgwtfToph

omgwtfToph

Smash Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
4,486
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San Jose
Leffen, of running shield dropping (i.e. the movement technique) and stationary shield dropping (i.e. the OOS technique), which do you think is more important?

PS: <3 leffen
 
leffen

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
How are they different? I think oos is more universally useable, while running is better with certain characters.

I'll spill the shield drop stuff because I'm so ashamed that people haven't learned it properly yet.


To shield drop during shield pressure:

1. Press straight down with the right pressure
- Hard but if you misstime it (say input it during hitlag) it "option selects" holding shield.

2. Dash and hold forward/back before shielding (you can start holding forward during any lag which prevents you from rolling) and then slide down whenever you want to shield drop
- Easiest, but requires setups and if hit the spot that causes you to drop during hitlag you cannot do this method again.

3. Press to either side during hitlag to prevent yourself from rolling, slide down when you wanna shield drop
- Good because it requires no setup, and its interesting because it "option selects" roll (if they don't actually do a attack that you can buffer forward during, you roll). You can bait it though

4. Hold shield, and then move the stick "slowly" to the left/right so that you don't roll, but fully tilt (your stick should be fully to the side when you're done). Then just slide it down like usual.

- Best version except for the first one, and its reasonably easy to use. You don't risk rolling, and you can "spam it" and if you start going to the side during hitlag theres no penalty.
5. There is one more but i'm getting bored


I use the hardcore *****in method (#1) but learn #4 because #1 largely relies on how good the control stick is on your particular controller.


Hmm. I should make a thread, because I've done a number of these posts but they are hard to find and disappear quickly with all the random noob spam
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Yo I use option selects all the time, what are you talking about? =P

For example, off-stage Fair to cover the jump and if they do or don't jump I can just uair them after for the kill.
 
leffen

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Divinokage said:
Yo I use option selects all the time, what are you talking about? =P

For example, off-stage Fair to cover the jump and if they do or don't jump I can just uair them after for the kill.
Click to expand...
that is not a option select, that is doing an option and then doing another (on reaction)

option select is a single string of inputs which have different outcome depending on what your opponent does
 
Wenbobular

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
leffen said:
shield drop stuff
Click to expand...
I'll add on to this a little bit
I use leffen's 4th variant, and I think some controllers will make you spotdodge if you just roll down to 45 degrees on one side, but shield drop very consistently going 45 degrees to the other (although I have a controller that's decent at going both directions and a controller that does neither -_-)

Because of this I can shield drop without thinking rolling the stick to the left, but I have to really concentrate to go to the right (to the point that it's hardly even feasible to try in matches)

I've found that this often doesn't matter though once you're used to favoring one side you can easily maneuver yourself to take advantage

The problem comes when Marth is uptilting you from the right and you can only shield drop left <_< but you can find some other way of getting out stuff like that

Also because hardly anyone shield drops at all, nobody is going to pick up on it if you only shield drop facing left / right xD
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
Now that you have *****ed and been emo, i am more willing to critique those videos. Let me get my first vodka drink in my system first tho
 
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