Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[unknown522]

i felt my tech skill was a bit off in winners but other than that it was fine. whyd kk drop you? id like to but im teaming with pc chris now

He's being an emo ***** for no reason.

@ toph: no vids sadly. The guy who was supposed to stream didn't show.

I'm gonna try to bring something to record with.

@ bing: 2 SDs isn't almost

 

[Bones0]

Hey, I want to know if there's any application for Usmash out of shine. On shield it's pretty ***. It does good damage if they jump out, but your whole shield pressure ends with it. Anything else you can do with it?

This.

 

[Strong Badam]

finally learned how to laser correctly. SHL fastfall is so good. also chillen know's whats up with falling uair man.
did lasers -> falling uair -> uair KO against a missed rest too it was so good.

 

[Bones0]

How does a DK main not already know about every possible variation of uair?



Critique me!

u mirin' my multishinez?

Friendly: Bones (Fox) vs. dkuo (Falco)

Pride Match: Bones (Fox) vs. Epsilon (Peach)
Best of 7, European stage list, DSR for last stage won on

(these are all in the same video btw)

Things I've gathered on my own:
- I hate dsmash
- I don't grab... like EVER
- I can't drillshine for some ****ing reason
- I hate dsmash
- I hate nair
- I should laser camp cause the one time I did I racked up 30% in ~5 seconds
- I hate dsmash

 

[Van.]

everybody from canada is SO ****ING HARD on bing lmao... is he mad annoying in person or something? why don't you guys cut him some slack lol

 

[PK Webb]

how do u deal with a super campy lasering falco...if any1 watched the stream of mass madness i got 4 stocked cuz i lost the spirit to play against such a ****** tactic but i realize that i gotta learn to play against. now by super campy im not talking about dashdance and and few lasers im talking about hardcore 3 straight minutes of running away and lasering. any help???? 1 thing i will say im want to do is in that situation just hold up the reflect when they r super far away and 2 just rush him down cuz i have the techskill for that

 

[The Great Gonzales]

lol i play againts that type of campy Falco, but as sheik. So i could tell you what to do as sheik *trollface*

 

[Jim Morrison]

how do u deal with a super campy lasering falco...if any1 watched the stream of mass madness i got 4 stocked cuz i lost the spirit to play against such a ****** tactic but i realize that i gotta learn to play against. now by super campy im not talking about dashdance and and few lasers im talking about hardcore 3 straight minutes of running away and lasering. any help???? 1 thing i will say im want to do is in that situation just hold up the reflect when they r super far away and 2 just rush him down cuz i have the techskill for that

Play a lot of friendlies with him and learn to powershield his lasers.

 

[unknown522]

everybody from canada is SO ****ING HARD on bing lmao... is he mad annoying in person or something? why don't you guys cut him some slack lol

Was I being hard on him?

 

[KirbyKaze]

He's being an emo ***** for no reason.

I hold you back. I don't like teaming with you. I don't like teams period.

Get a better partner. I'm not ruining my tournament experience to play in an event I don't even enjoy.

 

[unknown522]

how do u deal with a super campy lasering falco...if any1 watched the stream of mass madness i got 4 stocked cuz i lost the spirit to play against such a ****** tactic but i realize that i gotta learn to play against. now by super campy im not talking about dashdance and and few lasers im talking about hardcore 3 straight minutes of running away and lasering. any help???? 1 thing i will say im want to do is in that situation just hold up the reflect when they r super far away and 2 just rush him down cuz i have the techskill for that

I know what you mean. I'm trying to find a real answer to this that doesn't involve the falco being dumb or relying on them making a mistake (cuz if that's the case then the MU really isn't even).

I remember playing vs Tag$ at apex 2010 in a 5$ MM and I barely won because he started laser camping really hard on stadium. I was trying so hard to get in but had so much trouble. Over 450 lasers shot by him in that game. Match took over 5:30.

From personal experience, don't let it get you down. Weaving around him and trying to get in from above or below. You really do have to use the fact that he's slow to not let him get away once you get close. If he jumps away from you, then try to punish his landing. He has to land sometime. B-air being the safer choice ofc but if you can land a u-air then might as well.

Since they're running away, you wan try to trap them at the edge and cut them off. Maybe get a gimp out of it.

Also if they get too carried away with lasers under a platform, then maybe you can hit them through it on some stages. Also platform just falling through platforms while you're jumping around. Try to space a u-tilt length away or else you should get *****.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yeah I hate Stadium vs Falco, because when he laser camps under those platforms, I have no idea how to approach him.

 

[Wenbobular]

How is it any different from a normal platform stage?

At least on Stadium the transformations turn the stage mad goofy ...

 

[Strong Badam]

david team with me at impulse

 

[Silent Wolf]

I hold you back. I don't like teaming with you. I don't like teams period.

Get a better partner. I'm not ruining my tournament experience to play in an event I don't even enjoy.

=[

winning isnt everything. i doubt ryan cares about winning teams that much. its just fun playing with your friends. at least thats how i see it

How is it any different from a normal platform stage?

At least on Stadium the transformations turn the stage mad goofy ...

falco has the option to retreat past the platform in addition to his other options. so it makes it a bit harder. plus stadium is longer than the other plat stages. edit: idk if thats why they have trouble, im just speculating lol

 

[PK Webb]

I know what you mean. I'm trying to find a real answer to this that doesn't involve the falco being dumb or relying on them making a mistake (cuz if that's the case then the MU really isn't even).

I remember playing vs Tag$ at apex 2010 in a 5$ MM and I barely won because he started laser camping really hard on stadium. I was trying so hard to get in but had so much trouble. Over 450 lasers shot by him in that game. Match took over 5:30.

From personal experience, don't let it get you down. Weaving around him and trying to get in from above or below. You really do have to use the fact that he's slow to not let him get away once you get close. If he jumps away from you, then try to punish his landing. He has to land sometime. B-air being the safer choice ofc but if you can land a u-air then might as well.

Since they're running away, you wan try to trap them at the edge and cut them off. Maybe get a gimp out of it.

Also if they get too carried away with lasers under a platform, then maybe you can hit them through it on some stages. Also platform just falling through platforms while you're jumping around. Try to space a u-tilt length away or else you should get *****.

thx alot...it was on fd tho....i felt soooo helpless like wtf who plays THIS ghey lol....i find powershielding with fox hard but with marth super ez its weird. but on the bright side me and swift took m2k and zoso to 5 game in losers finals.

 

[unknown522]

I find FD the easiest to approach a campy falco. It's just that if they land a hit there....oh god. In addition to that, you have to approach in a way that won't get you ***** by CC.

Since there's no platforms, you can abuse the fact that they eventually have to land on the ground. Then try to sneak in a u-smash, or some kind of oos option if they attack/laser on their way down. DD -> grab is alright, but if they happen to come down with a laser then that doesn't really work ofc

 

[Bones0]

Something to keep in mind vs. a lasering Falco is that he has to be absolutely paranoid about people coming into his space. Lasering takes so long and only covers the space directly in front of him. Once you reach a certain threshold as you approach, Falco players have a switch in their brain that basically goes from laser mode to "oh **** he's on top of me mode." Some characters are slow enough that Falco can just RSHL when he lets them get too close, but Fox can rush down so effectively it's a stupidly dangerous idea, especially since he will tend to be by the ledge. If it's FD, just work your way over slowly with FHs by feigning bairs and dairs (depending on which way you're facing). On other stages it's much easier to actually move across the stage because of platforms, but then actually hitting him becomes a little trickier because of the platform. You can do any number of mixups once you land on a platform though. Coming down onto it with a bair is relatively safe, and from there you can drop through bair or hold shield if you think he will go for shine-waveland. Shine-waveland isn't frame safe at all, but I never get shined OoS for it, so Fox players in general need to work on that. Keep an eye on what he likes to do as you reach that approach threshold. Some players will just turn around utilt, some will go for CCCs, some will shield, some will roll, some will try to SHFFL after the last laser they shoot. Just make sure you take your time and stay above him. If he actually jumps to get lasers at platform height, dipping down and rushing from below is a lot easier.

Oh, and counterpick FoD. Low/nonexistent side platforms make it like a smaller FD because he can't hide, but you still have that top platform to rely on for refuge. Plus most Falco players suck in general at lasering when there are low platforms. YS is the other obvious choice because there's just not enough room to shoot more than a few lasers.

 

[omgwtfToph]

hey, so I need help punishing rolls. I realized this weekend that, particularly against characters with relatively quick rolls and other good OOS options I have to watch out for (particularly spacies) I pretty much suck at actually covering rolls when I'm shield pressuring - I have to pretty much predict them, i.e. get a "hard read." Can anyone give me some advice on covering a potential roll while still keeping them locked down?

 

[unknown522]

I think you have to pick one

 

[Jim Morrison]

Thanks for the advice on U-smash out of shine, I noticed it works very good indeed on missed techs, and also after D-throw, it covers both non-tech and tech in place, but then I realized, why D-throw when you can U-throw lol.

On powershielding Falco's lasers: It's just something too valuable to disregard in today's quick-happy-laser metagame. The problem is training it. How do you practice powershielding lasers? I don't exactly have a falco nearby who is willing to just spam lasers at me for hours on end >_>

 

[omgwtfToph]

To Unknown: I mean, with Sheik you can short hop and reactively bair if they roll or fair and continue pressure if they stay in their shield. And I know that with Fox you can do things like bait rolls while still maintaining an advantageous position, so that if they keep shielding you can continue "soft" pressure (i.e. spaced bairs or whatever). I'm just saying I'm not very good at it, I know a lot of people are better at it, and I need fresh ideas.

 

[Bones0]

Fresh Idea #1: Empty SH WL utilt.

 

[Lovage]

dont empty jump waveland uptilt thats the slowest **** i've ever heard of lol

PART OF reacting to/punishing rolls is understanding the exact moments your opponent really wants to roll, and positioning yourself so you can do a simple "check" right as they're about to roll and then react to it with something. like obviously not all shield pressure is designed to catch rolls, but it's really easy to mix that in if you feel your opponent wants to roll.

when you're at roll-spacing from someone's shield, try doing 1-2 spaced bairs on their shield and then do an empty short hop + fastfall. if they tried to roll during your jump you can just do a delayed+non-fastfalled bair and it will cover it. (if you're in danger during the empty hop you can waveland away pretty quick too.)

good players know the difference between good rolling and bad rolling so don't expect the same trix to work on everyone, but it is really good to learn how to bait people's responses out of their shield. rolls/fullhops/shields, there's tons of things you can make someone do, the only hard part is knowing they're gonna do it so you can punish them.

edit: i rambled hella bad tell me if it made any sense

 

[omgwtfToph]

no that made hella sense haha

 

[unknown522]

I had a few pretty good roll punishes in WFs.

The ones I can remember specifically are:

- n-air -> double shine on the shield then I did WD back to bait the roll, then I u-tilted. He was trapped at the edge of DL64.

- n-air -> double shine on the shield again, but I did a platform waveband back and then drilled the roll on BF

- b-air outside of grab range on shield. He sat there so I b-air again. Then I walked back and he rolled in and I shined him for rolling DL64 again.

Still that has to do with conditioning. They rolled during my pressure sometimes, so then I did less pressure, but made sure to stay close to cover rolls. I'm not very good at punishing roll away though, but a lot of players tend not to do it anyway.

 

[Silent Wolf]

matches from MITH3

me vs bladewise winners finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXuZFrz5XIA&feature=relmfu

me vs toph losers finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqS2YVUlWo&feature=g-u-u

me vs bladewise grand finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJtX4vUQjKA

 

[Bing]

@ bing: 2 SDs isn't almost

lol I said because you were ****ing up hardcore(SDing) Im not gunna say it was a close all skill no sd match, you illusioned off stage once, then again but I sort of "saved" you but recovering myself... then shined you.. And I think you did a run off fair or something :S

 

[~Twitch~]

Fresh Idea #1: Empty SH WL utilt.

me and kevin do that junk all the time.

 

[Bing]

everybody from canada is SO ****ING HARD on bing lmao... is he mad annoying in person or something? why don't you guys cut him some slack lol

One thing I've come to realize is that you can never take the way people talk on the boards to heart. I mean, being brutally honest, people like KK can seem like an ******* on the boards but its just the way they talk ON the boards, in real like, they're awesome! I love them all lol. I especially get along with Unknown

 

[fortunecookie]

hey can you guys critique my fox please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR4Eo8EprZw&feature=youtu.be

the longer and more detailed the replies the better!! thankss

 

[Bones0]

I've never seen KK be brutally honest on the boards... He seems much more like that irl. But that's cause he's too cool to waste his time beating around the bush. lol

 

[Bing]

I've never seen KK be brutally honest on the boards... He seems much more like that irl. But that's cause he's too cool to waste his time beating around the bush. lol

This is what I mean, he can come off in a negative way and some people cant see that lol. He's awesome irl though, helps me constantly at tournament, and the rare occasion he's not sure on something, he'll find it or put some thought into it(ex on Saturday I wasnt sure what Sheik worst stage vs Fox was and he and Unknown had a few words over it)

 

[omgwtfToph]

unknown522 and kirbykaze struck me as incredibly nice/cool guys when I chatted with them at APEX

 

[KirbyKaze]

I've never seen KK be brutally honest on the boards... He seems much more like that irl. But that's cause he's too cool to waste his time beating around the bush. lol

You're dumb.

This is what I mean, he can come off in a negative way and some people cant see that lol. He's awesome irl though, helps me constantly at tournament, and the rare occasion he's not sure on something, he'll find it or put some thought into it(ex on Saturday I wasnt sure what Sheik worst stage vs Fox was and he and Unknown had a few words over it)

You're also dumb.

 

[PGH Carroll]

alright good. i thought it was just me KK was being mean to lately :D
i feel better

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I <3 all of Canada, and Canada <3s me!

Smooth Criminal

 

[Brookman]

wow I'm ****** m2k right now . . .

 

[Jim Morrison]

Authorities notified, the police is on their way now.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Can anyone give me some advice on covering a potential roll while still keeping them locked down?

i hate fox players LOOL