Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Andy Lawliet]

As for chaingrabs (on FD) try not to DI (or slightly behind Marth) and then shine.
At something about 22-28% Marth will get hit if he doesn't Pivot the Grab.
Not sure bout the percentages as Im playing PAL and Fox is a bit lighter.
You can look up M2Ks post about Marth cg % if you want to know it exactly.
If the Marth does everything right you can't escape.

As for general Marth MU stuff:
Marth is really really good if youre above him. On the other site He's really really Bad if he's above you, meaning you should try to position yourself below him. You can do this with uthrows for example.

Marth also has no projectile so basically you can always force him to approach. Dont get caught off guard while lasering tho. Common mistake.

Try to avoid repeating the same stuff while recovering because youll get ***** hard for it

 

[L__]

Marth also has no projectile so basically you can always force him to approach. Dont get caught off guard while lasering tho. Common mistake.

just to add on

be super wary of marths that slowly push you towards the edge with how they position themselves

it's not always apparent

but some marths

are really good

at these subtle things

like smash di-ing falco lasers away and punishing falcos approaches LUL

 

[Bing]

If you di Marth's up throw, he can cg to 70%. If you dont di I think its 30%.

Against Marths Ive always tried to push them towards the edge and shine like a boss. You can waveshine marths right to there death

 

[Sinji]

DD grab uthrow.

 

[Bing]

Sinji I didnt know you dp was a pokemon until just now... oh God.

 

[Lovage]

fighting vs. marth is all about not rushing in stupidly but still knowing good times to nair them. dash dance and short hop laser just enough to make them approach once in a while, but don't be a camping ***** that gets approached on by dash cancel fsmash because you're too busy dash dancing. key to the matchup is knowing when the time is right to approach him and staying on his *** really hard.

 

[Brookman]

the dilemma arises from the fact that marth essentially out ranges fox in lamlost every aspect. Fox's best options are shine and grab but UTILIZING THEM is a challenge. Drill is a good answer be even this has low range.

Proficient Shffl/shine/mobility is a must. shl skills help but aren't exactly MANDATORY (free damage gives fox a potential edge but in practice - an slip up and that ~12% you just initiated is going to be shrugged off if you get grabbed/knocked down here.

"Dash Dancing" is a very ambiguous phrase for "Don't get hit" which cricles around to "play well" and ultimately it really comes down to diligent experience.

Back Air EVERYTHING.

don't commit to smash attacks.

^unless it's out of shine.

watch Jman his style is classic.

^ try to have a style.

watch m2k Marth a lot then watch normal human marth players. then watch recent marth players (none lol)

jk marth players <3

As a last note: use UP+B and SIDE+B these moves are under-rated.

 

[Lovage]

backaireverything is really good advice against any character you don't know what they do. lol. if you have a doc in your pool and you've never played vs. a doc before. just laser him and fullhop fastfall bair his approaches. you'll have way better success with that than if you were rushing in with nairs getting WD grabbed and CC'd.

 

[Brookman]

holy chevy

wtf is tech skill anyway??

 

[unknown522]

Vs marth, if you're gonna go above him, make sure to be quick or out of range at all times.

Like waveland off the platform quickly to maneuver around his ****.

 

[Brookman]

just do it.

can't?? do it anyway. .

 

[Aber]

I play marth and scrape out a few wins. ...I'm thinking "this is exceptionally boring"

I thought you don't care if you win lol

Also I played Travis as well and felt the same way especially considering I am inept at power-shielding. No excuses though.

Also i play marth and foxes annoy me by drilling/shining when i am grounded but nairing the instant i jump. Proceed to **** with proper followups. Dont run into his moves. And finally if the marth (me) has the tendency to dash dance a lot they'll often dash away when they don't know what to do so chase them down and punish...........^That guy is very adept at it

 

[Bing]

...I dont agree with chasing them down... following your terms specificly you're playing right into there hand..

 

[unknown522]

marth can't really do much when he has his back turned. Just don't let him CC your ***

 

[rokimomi]

has anyone been successful with shielddropping when you are on a platform above a marth that's uptilting

 

[Warhawk]

has anyone been successful with shielddropping when you are on a platform above a marth that's uptilting

Probably look for some vids of leffen, he's probably used it before in that scenario.

 

[Wenbobular]

I mean, if you can shield drop well, uptilt is pretty easy to get the drop on

 

[Aber]

...I dont agree with chasing them down... following your terms specificly you're playing right into there hand..

Oh okay.....Don't apply it then that's ok man.......But like unknown said marth is vulnerable with his back turned dashing away

 

[rokimomi]

I found that my deadzone is like perfect for shielddropping at neutral (it jus started happening randomly in practice) but It's harder in the heat of the moment when you are tilting your shield at the same time, trying not to get poked from below. Guess it's just practice

 

[Wenbobular]

I shield drop by angling to the side and putting it to 45 degrees, which is also pretty good when you want to Bair in the direction you're holding because it'll cover your body from that side
Unfortunately only works for the left side for me, I think it has something to do with my controller -_- right side makes me spotdodge

 

[Bones0]

has anyone been successful with shielddropping when you are on a platform above a marth that's uptilting

Yes, it works perfectly as long as they aren't going for shield pokes (most Marths don't unless they know you can shield drop). Even if they do, you can light shield and get it sometimes anyway. I'm still not sure what's up with tilting your shield down before doing it. I have done it before, but it's a super tight window because as they're in lag, you have to let your shield reset to neutral and then perform the shield drop.

0:30

@Wenbo
You can't really choose what side you bair on, unless I misunderstood you. lol

 

[Wenbobular]

What I meant is
You're not going to shield drop Bair if Marth is in front of you
I worded it rather poorly I admit

What I mean makes perfect sense in my head haha

 

[Bones0]

Oh yeah, I totally agree you have to still keep spacing in mind. If Marth is in front of you and out of range of a shield drop dair, I would WD OoS off the platform away from him.

 

[Brookman]

There's actually a death skull in that zone behind marth while he's dash dancing. It represents his pivot grab range.

 

[Lovage]

Oh yeah, I totally agree you have to still keep spacing in mind. If Marth is in front of you and out of range of a shield drop dair, I would WD OoS off the platform away from him.

careful because WD has some lag and he can eat you with an utilt if you try to slide off da platform

fullhop OOS onto the top platform works really well when ur in this spot

 

[Bones0]

Huh? I meant as soon as their utilt hits your shield you WD, not before. Utilt has enough lag that they can't punish you unless you just stand still afterwards.

FHing/wavelanding onto the top plat is def good though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

he can eat you with an utilt

wat ?

 

[Brookman]

I'd rather go with lovage's advice and NOT TRY TO **** WITH MARTH IN A BAD POSITION.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

But what if what you think is a bad position is actually a good position

 

[Sinji]

I agree with bones on the lag part. If you light shield on the platform, you shouldn't have a real problem getting out of it.

 

[EWC]

You can wd oos on a platform and cancel the lag with your teeter animation. It's situationally useful, but more for fun than anything else.

 

[genkaku]

how come I only ever see kels edgeguard with shinestall bair? Have I just seen none of the right foxes?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

its something the chicago scene has started doing. I think everyone got it from Matt originally, but I think he got the idea from somewhere else. There was a period of time where he had some neutral position shine stall tricks, but I think hes moved on to double shine stuff.

 

[PGH Carroll]

pittsburgh foxes (me and Taki) have been doing it for a while.
SO HIPSTER yet SO SMOOTH

 

[Wenbobular]

Why is it any better than ledgehop Bair given you have the time to grab the ledge? Wouldn't you rather have invincibility?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you can jump out farther, stall in the shine, and effectively cut off more options. Other than that, it looks cooler.

 

[Wenbobular]

How necessary is jumping out farther? Ledgehop Bair fullhop Bair covers a lot of stuff as it is and is a lot safer vs things like Falco's side b

There probably are a few cases where you might want to go out with Bair, but I see little reason to shinestall far away from the ledge and not be able to make it back on stage after the Bair ...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

no, its matchup dependent; you can cut off certain angles that go for the edge while also threatening an edgehog. One case is cutting off falcon's upb before he has the chance to attempt fade back or edge cancel shenanigans.

 

[Wenbobular]

How does shine stalling help you cut off Falcon's recovery angles haha
If he starts it in the range where you can hit him with double jump Bair ... you might as well just stay on stage until you see him start his up-b, then double jump Bair him then <_<

I'm sure there are applications but that example doesn't seem fitting

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

its hard to explain in words, watch it done or try it out yourself. Its not much better than other methods, and in some cases its worse, but its definitely useful