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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
LAX_
Smash Apprentice
hey i finally played some friendlies with a dude whos decent (he L-cancels and DIs) and we played a bunch of fox dittos and i pretty much beasted. lol but whenever i tried to do the shffl nair->shine-wavedash->jab (is that Thunders combo?), i would always be short or late in jabbing. AKA after shining he would get pushed out of my jab range after I waveshined so he used his get up attack and hit me like every time, and i know for a fact that he was not DIing away from the shine.
it looked like i was wavedashing at full length and not triangle jumping but i guess i could be wrong. so i could've not been wavedashing at full length. is it necessary to against fox? also when i was doing the nair, fox's legs were hitting my opponent, so my shine would barely hit. should i be hitting them closer to fox's butt (lol), then waveshining? oh and sometimes he even used ftilt before i jabbed him but thats probably because i was too slow in hitting A.
it looked like i was wavedashing at full length and not triangle jumping but i guess i could be wrong. so i could've not been wavedashing at full length. is it necessary to against fox? also when i was doing the nair, fox's legs were hitting my opponent, so my shine would barely hit. should i be hitting them closer to fox's butt (lol), then waveshining? oh and sometimes he even used ftilt before i jabbed him but thats probably because i was too slow in hitting A.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
it's better to hit them with your butt so you don't have to waveshine as far
but it sounds like you're not waveshining far enough or not jabbing fast enough
but it sounds like you're not waveshining far enough or not jabbing fast enough
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Just go for thunders a lot, LAX. Your hands will figure out the timing on their own after awhile.
Silent Wolf
...
dont worry too much about the jab, just focus on using shines to knock them down so you can tech chase with grab or shine if theyre close to the edge. shine = easiest way to get grab, grab = best way to start combos.
Lovage
Smash Hero
i think i'm gonna make a thread about recovering
if anyone has stuff to say about that message me on aim
if anyone has stuff to say about that message me on aim
LAX_
Smash Apprentice
alright thanks.
maybe i'll try on training mode and set the CPU at low percents to get the timing down.
true, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to learn Thunders anyway though in case i'm getting punished by get up attacks. but i guess i could just waveshine with my shield up->sheild grab if they keep using the get up attack maybe? (also thanks)
Lovage
Smash Hero
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Nice moves, Lovage.
Is the vid both Fox and Falco?
Edit: Didn't read the info on the vid.
Who else will it include?
Is the vid both Fox and Falco?
Edit: Didn't read the info on the vid.
Who else will it include?
So when another charater does an aerial on your shield, he can either buffer a spotdodge or he can hit a and grab after the aerial (or about 50 other things). I guess it becomes like chess.
That being said, is shine out of shield really the only perfectly safe out of shield move?
Shieldgrab can be spotdodged and punished, staying in shield just gets you killed, aerial from shield might work (slower than shine though).
I'm just trying to think of how to play at high levels. I'm sure when you're playing xn00bx34567 then you can shieldgrab, but it doesn't seem safe top level anymore.
Comments?
That being said, is shine out of shield really the only perfectly safe out of shield move?
Shieldgrab can be spotdodged and punished, staying in shield just gets you killed, aerial from shield might work (slower than shine though).
I'm just trying to think of how to play at high levels. I'm sure when you're playing xn00bx34567 then you can shieldgrab, but it doesn't seem safe top level anymore.
Comments?
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
shield grabbing just doesn't feel safe anymore. lol
when i'm playing someone knew, i'll try a couple of times to see how they deal with it or if i can get away with it.
when i'm playing someone knew, i'll try a couple of times to see how they deal with it or if i can get away with it.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Shine OoS can be countered with a spotdodge or shielding right after.
You can counter the spotdodge by double shining OoS and counter a shield by SGing.
You can counter double shining with shield and counter SGing with shine or a spotdodge.
You get where I'm going...nothing is perfect, but there's always a way.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
if you shine oos to retreating shffl nair/dair, i think you're safe.
this is just in theory since i can't do that. lol
this is just in theory since i can't do that. lol
I've been learning how to shine oos shiled by using the c-stick to jump, mash down on the control stick, and move my thumb up from the c-stick to hit b. I actually did a perfect waveshine out of shield once. I was so proud of myself!!1!!!1one1
But shine out of shield> full jump/nair/jc grab can't be punished I don't think. Maybe shine>grab can. But whenever I play a falcon and try and shieldgrab, I usually miss and get grab and get like 50%.
So I think the future of this game is shine oos > nair or shine oos> wavedash away. Mixed up with a grab in between just for fun.
But shine out of shield> full jump/nair/jc grab can't be punished I don't think. Maybe shine>grab can. But whenever I play a falcon and try and shieldgrab, I usually miss and get grab and get like 50%.
So I think the future of this game is shine oos > nair or shine oos> wavedash away. Mixed up with a grab in between just for fun.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Shine grabs are just grabs basically and can be beaten with spotdodges and other shines.
Shine - > jump/aerial leaves you above the opponent without a DJ and is just as beatable as a regular FH aerial.
My point is that every maneuver is beatable, so none of them are best. Some are of course safer, but they all have their places and should all be used.
So don't discount any of them. You still have WD OoS and aerials OoS which are perfectly viable options.
EDIT: Although... i do like the sound of shine->retreating aerial. I'm too slow to do that though.
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Wait, the shine doesn't provide enough sheildstun to keep them pinned before the grab comes out?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
no they can buffer a dodge between them. can't shield grab or anything tho.
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
if you can shine to retreating shffl oos, what could beat that?
i'm just curious.
i'm just curious.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
I dunno, isn't that like a Falco tactic? dairshine-> retreating nair/dair. go ask mogwai or something lol
shine ->retreating aerial and waveshine OoS away seem awfully safe
worst thing i can think of is that you can't follow up the shine
shine ->retreating aerial and waveshine OoS away seem awfully safe
worst thing i can think of is that you can't follow up the shine
what about drillshine on shield? Is there enough hitstun to do anything besides buffer a roll/dodge away?
Of course this is hypothetical bros.. but watching jman vs mew2king was like an awakening for me.. there's nothing safe from shield, except shine.
Of course this is hypothetical bros.. but watching jman vs mew2king was like an awakening for me.. there's nothing safe from shield, except shine.
Silent Wolf
...
falcons sidestep?? >.>
TresChikon
Smash Lord
<not as invisible as me. Also, that fails on other skins>
TresChikon
Smash Lord
that's sneaky
Silent Wolf
...
wavedash away as soon as you can out of shield.
TresChikon
Smash Lord
CCing Ganon? Is that even possible?
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Ganon's moves hit too hard to justify CC'ing anything. Fortunately, they're slow enough that you can just dodge them. Dash dance camp your way to victory!
Lovage
Smash Hero
jump around ganon with single lasers and combo him once you get a hit in. dont go too crazy with ur combos or he will punch you
DUB
Smash Lord
When is the best time/character to use d-throw techchasing against? Is there?
*somewhat off topic*
~Come discuss the use of Fox's n-air vs. IC~
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=83
*somewhat off topic*
~Come discuss the use of Fox's n-air vs. IC~
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=83
TresChikon
Smash Lord
On top of platforms, it limits their options significantly.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
um I'm pretty sure you can chainthrow samus reasonably with dthrow tech chases
Silent Wolf
...
they can just DI off the platform