Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Silent Wolf]

Silent Wolf, I've been having trouble against ganon lately (Linguini to be specific). Do you have any advice on how to beat ganon? If you could also enlighten me on effective combos vs. ganon that would help too...

I've played his Ganon, he's quite good.
I just try to surround him with attack and leave as little openings as possible. I do a lot of nairs and jabs. If I nair past him I immediately turn around and jab. if I land a jab, I usually go for a grab, or dash a way for a second to see if he attacks, then punish. If you ever land a shine on the ground in the open, make sure you follow t up with WDing out of it and grabbing him. Ganon's so fat so it's hard for him to escape up throw>uair. Camp him with lasers until he comes. if he tries to attack first, it shouldn't be too hard to punish. The grab range on his up-b is long so I usually don't try to shine him out of it all the time. usually only if I'm on the ledge or if it's late in the up-b.

 

[SCOTU]

Here's a serious question: What makes Silent Wolf so good? It's a known fact that he is good, but I would like to know what exactly it is that makes him so good.

 

[Mcscruff]

Thanks for the help.

 

[Deleted member]

Couple of basic questions:

How fast do you have to press B in the shdl? and when?
When performing an infinite FF stall, is it possible for someone to edgehog you during your FF?
Which is generally a better approach: A nair or a dair?

 

[SCOTU]

you just have to press b twice. The trick is to pressing b (the first time) within the first 3 airborne fames.
Yes it's possible to edgehog, since when doing it perfectly, there is no hitbox for it.
Situational, and stage/ character/ player dependant.

 

[dawn001]

hey i know this has already been ask before but how is the revers shine down ? i can do it but it comes out like once out of ???? who knows is rare so can anyone help me?

 

[Oskurito]

hey i know this has already been ask before but how is the revers shine down ? i can do it but it comes out like once out of ???? who knows is rare so can anyone help me?

SHine then press the opposite direction you're facing then wavedash backwards or forwards for faster effects try to input the turn around as fast as you can.

 

[dawn001]

SHine then press the opposite direction you're facing then wavedash backwards or forwards for faster effects try to input the turn around as fast as you can.

ok explain your self a little clear iam not sure what you mean!

 

[Zankoku]

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

1. Shine.
2. Turn around. (Do this as quickly as possible)
3. Wavedash.
4. Shine.

 

[dawn001]

oh ok got it!! thanks

 

[SCOTU]

I basically do the reverse waveshine by mindgaming my fingers. I give the input for a waveshine in the other direction, and at the last minute, jam the control stick the other way. Seems to work pretty quickly, but my consistancy is still low. (this method's worked the best for me so far, and is best when you hit someone with the shine).

 

[FoxFtw]

this has helped alot but what is drillshining and what is DIing?

 

[Zankoku]

A drillshine is Fox's DAir, the Drill Kick, followed by his Down+B, the Shine.

DI is Directional Influence.

 

[FoxFtw]

A drillshine is Fox's DAir, the Drill Kick, followed by his Down+B, the Shine.

DI is Directional Influence.

And directional influence is?

 

[SCOTU]

DI = http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

 

[FoxFtw]

I though i had it but now im gettin a little confused

Is Waveshining

1.Wavedashing into a shine??

or

2.Shining after a wavedash??

 

[Zankoku]

I think both of those are the same, by your weird grammar.

A Waveshine is doing a Shine then wavedashing.

 

[FoxFtw]

Thx for the answer
This thread has helped me alot

 

[SCOTU]

Waveshining is the staple fox technique, that allows him to have the fastest move in the game, and then cancel it's lag into motion. I suggest you learn to do it right after learning to JC grab, dash dance and shffl.

Also, please refrain from posting in dark colors per it's difficulty to read.

 

[Sizzle]

SilentWolf can you elaborate on the uses of Fox Trotting, especially in Fox dittos? At OC3 I had the chance to watch and play some very good Fox players and they seemed to be abusing this against me to get grabs and start chaingrab combos and such. Is it an essential tactic for using Fox's speed to your advantage?

 

[SCOTU]

To the best of my knolege, i didn't think people really used it at all. The only time i use it is to shine combo luigi/ ICs. On the topic: what *exactly* is fox trotting (i'm not very good with it, and want to find some frame data about it, but don't know what it is exactly). I know it's just using your dash instead of a run. But do you cancel your dash into another dash? right at the end, when dash turns to run do you cancel the run into a dash? In either case, how is said cancelling done? Is it just a dash, pivot>dash in same direction (like a DD, but the 2nd dash in the same direction?). Thanks.

 

[Shai Hulud]

The dash goes a predetermined distance depending on how many frames you hold left or right. I'll go check this in a few minutes. Foxtrotting is just dashing again at the end of that predetermined distance. The control stick needs to be in the neutral position or the dash will turn into a run.

Nothing as complicated as pivoting is involved. Just dash by flicking the control stick instead of holding it and this essentially increases the alloted time for dash-dancing and allows you to dash in the same direction at the end of the dash animation, which varies in length depending on how hard you flick the control stick.

Okay here is the breakdown. This was only tested for Fox.

A dash takes 21 frames to complete, regardless of distance. However, it is interruptable by another dash after 20 frames. If the control stick is tilted in the same direction as the dash at any point from frame 11 to 19, the dash turns into a run. The dash distance depends on how long the control stick is held left or right, from 1 frame to 10 frames, with linear incrementation for each frame.

It takes 79 frames to run from one side of FD to the other. It takes 108 frames to Foxtrot across. I don't know who decided Foxtrotting was faster than running but that person was wrong. The advantage of Foxtrotting is that you can start dash-dancing at any point.

Here's a short video I made illustrating some distances with dashing/foxtrotting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOHU_33iaQg

 

[xxxbubbulubb]

I'm having trouble wavedashing with fox. I keep short hopping or just jumping instead.

 

[SCOTU]

The dash goes a predetermined distance depending on how many frames you hold left or right. I'll go check this in a few minutes. Foxtrotting is just dashing again at the end of that predetermined distance. The control stick needs to be in the neutral position or the dash will turn into a run.

Nothing as complicated as pivoting is involved. Just dash by flicking the control stick instead of holding it and this essentially increases the alloted time for dash-dancing and allows you to dash in the same direction at the end of the dash animation, which varies in length depending on how hard you flick the control stick.

Okay here is the breakdown. This was only tested for Fox.

A dash takes 21 frames to complete, regardless of distance. However, it is interruptable by another dash after 20 frames. If the control stick is tilted in the same direction as the dash at any point from frame 11 to 19, the dash turns into a run. The dash distance depends on how long the control stick is held left or right, from 1 frame to 10 frames, with linear incrementation for each frame.

It takes 79 frames to run from one side of FD to the other. It takes 108 frames to Foxtrot across. I don't know who decided Foxtrotting was faster than running but that person was wrong. The advantage of Foxtrotting is that you can start dash-dancing at any point.

Here's a short video I made illustrating some distances with dashing/foxtrotting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOHU_33iaQg

Interesting. I was always under the impression you needed to foxtrot to invert an infinite on Luigi/ ICs. I guess i'll just run instead.


@ xxxbubbulubb: Just practice. If you keep jumping, that means you need to press R later. If you get an air dodge, do it earlier.

 

[brawlpro]

I'm having trouble wavedashing with fox. I keep short hopping or just jumping instead.

well, try using r to land the air dodge since its closer to x and y, practice across final destination, just tilt the cntrol stick slightly diagonally down and try it, slowly move the stick to the right or left after you get the hang of wdashing down.

someone plz help him if this advice sux, thnx.

 

[SCOTU]

Hell, i say start off by learning perfect wavedashes, using screw attacks to make sure they're frame perfect. But seriously, watch Wak's ATHP vid.

 

[Silent Wolf]

well, try using r to land the air dodge since its closer to x and y, practice across final destination, just tilt the cntrol stick slightly diagonally down and try it, slowly move the stick to the right or left after you get the hang of wdashing down.

someone plz help him if this advice sux, thnx.

Actually...using L to jump for the WD would be more versatile if anything. 2 buttons/1 hand<2 buttons/2 hands. It really isn't that important which one though...

 

[The Phenom]

What are the controls for the infinite down B for Fox ? - Please and Thanks.

 

[Zankoku]

Hold down and rapidly slide your thumb from Y to B for the desired number of Shines.

 

[The Phenom]

ThX

I think I got it thanks , (ANKOKU) .

 

[SCOTU]

actually, there are tons of infinite Shine combos. If you were refering to the 3rd hardest one, then Ankoku's got it answered. Else, there's the waveshine infinite: Down-b>x>angled control stick>r>repeat.
and there's plenty more, like drillshining (against wall), horizontal drillshining (different methods that are character dependant), empty shffl shines (against wall), shl shine (against wall), horizontal shl waveshine. the list goes on. Only really concern yourself with learning waveshining against a wall, and horizontal waveshining, since they're easy, effective, and inescapable (yes, even SDI can't get you out, except on like ICs and Luigi).

 

[Giggidax]

Hold down and rapidly slide your thumb from Y to B for the desired number of Shines.

why does it have to be Y to B huh?? why cant it be X to B?

ur post was prejudice towards all X button jumpers in the smash community

u make me SICK ankoku!

 

[Randizzle]

i jump with x but jc shine with y. unless you claw, it's just a lot easier to use y over x for jc shines since it's easier to slide from y to b than from x to b.

 

[SCOTU]

I also sh with x, but jc shine /shdl with y. What's with people being like: "OMG i jump with X, i need to <insert technique here> with x". Generally, when there's some fast finger, muscle memory technique, it doesn't matter what button you use, you'll have the same learning curve for if you normally do it with that button or not.

 

[Giggidax]

huh?

using Y is jus too awkward for me, i stick to X.
i can shdl way easier with X than Y
i guess its jus because of my awesome muscle memory

 

[Zankoku]

why does it have to be Y to B huh?? why cant it be X to B?

ur post was prejudice towards all X button jumpers in the smash community

u make me SICK ankoku!

If you can multishine a decent number of times with X>B combination, I'd be very impressed, unless you're using claw method. The reason I suggested Y to B is because unlike X to B, there isn't a gigantic green A button in the way of sliding your thumb at the right speed.

 

[Randizzle]

the A button is still sometimes in the way, but it's easier to avoid it with y when jumping... and wtf ankoku, you don't really do tech stuff with fox =p

 

[SCOTU]

I hit the A button when i slide from Y. It's not super hard to do it with x, it's just your fingers have to be a bit faster. The catch is the return trip to x. Makes it harder to do them faster.

 

[brawlpro]

don't you have a less chance of hitting A when you slide off Y instead of X, i haven't played cause high shool(its a b*), therefore i can't experiment.

Actually...using L to jump for the WD would be more versatile if anything. 2 buttons/1 hand<2 buttons/2 hands. It really isn't that important which one though...

EDIT: SW thnx for the correction...but regardless of hands and stuff, you can jump with X from your thumb, and press R to land with your index finger...right? well your better soo, guess i can't correct you ...it can go either way... .

 

[Oskurito]

Yup sliding your thumb from X to B is commonly used for shdl or double shine and double shine pillar, and I can shdl with x to b and that's the way I double shine(but I rarely do it) and if you do it with the tip of your thumb you shouldn't hit A in the proccess and btw my fingers are so fast that I can double shine without sliding my finger(just moving it)