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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
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3713 Vivian rd 77093
The people you play do not SDI, then.
well iam not going for the whole infinte i meant that i always do it but ill do it like 3 times then ill go for the grap up throw and then up air kick or just the up smash and it works all the time i done it to some of the best in houston !
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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I'm nowhere near the best in MI. I can consistently SDI out of a second drill, and at times I've SDI'd out of the first drill.

I don't believe you.
 

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
976
Location
3713 Vivian rd 77093
I'm nowhere near the best in MI. I can consistently SDI out of a second drill, and at times I've SDI'd out of the first drill.

I don't believe you.
ok let me just ask you this to all the fox player when yall drill shine what button do yall push then ill tell you how i do it cause i found out that there is a way to do the drill shine fast !!!
even lunin can do it to DSF and more he does the same way i do !
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
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Northville, MI
I use Z, to make the drill come out fast. The trick to prevent people from SDIing it so much is to Fast Fall it. But then you're trading damage & consistancy for continuation. I'd like to point out that Hella SDI's LunIn's drills all the time in their match online. There is no way to just "Drillshine someone that they can't escape". Even against a wall you can't. In the rock stage on stadium is the only place you can do it without them being agle to escape. A single SDI gets you out of any Drillshine infinite. Believe it.
 

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
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3713 Vivian rd 77093
umm well to drill shine i press a, then l, then b:).....
see that is too slow is not fast enough fu**K this ill tell you try this one but trus me yall is not easy to do it the only way i notice that the drill shine was working is by trying to drill shine a gano level 9 if you cant drill shine ganon 3 time with out being slap by him then you are not doing it right !!
ok here we go this is is done instead of short hoping with X try Y and instead of drilling with A try the C stick but is not easy trust me so first you will short hop with Y then slide your fingers to the C stick for the drill shine and then you reflect so wavadash foward but it has to be fast !!
now when you have it down try do do it on ganon and see if he slaps you and if he does not then you got it down!
anymore questions???????

and for you scotu you are right at some point you can SDI of of it but you can do it up 3 times as max
 

brawlpro

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
4,175
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Florissant, St. Louis, MO Tech Skill: Over 9000
yeah, i'll have it down by tonight, you don't beleive me see it in my next vids. Sucks i won't be playing a ganon so never mind, i'll use it in tournies, speaking of which i couldn't make it to SGAB so thats why i'm here, but i did manage to go to a smash fest yesterday.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
You might think, but it doesn't. Since an SDI length is a little longer than the width of a drill hit, if they SDI, away from where you're going to land, they won't be hit by any more drill kicks/ shine. And there's no need to reverse waveshine for it, just turn around waveshine, so you can dash out for less tractionous characters.
You can dash out of a reverse waveshine just as easily as a regular waveshine. It takes one more frame. Turning around in shine takes three frames. Therefore there is a two-frame advantage to reverse waveshining over turning around.

And I'm pretty sure the reverse drillshine infinite is inescapable, at least for Link and Peach. This is difficult to test by myself, however.

The wall infinites can be SDI'd, though.

And Dawn001, I C-stick dairs, always.
 

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
976
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3713 Vivian rd 77093
yeah, i'll have it down by tonight, you don't beleive me see it in my next vids. Sucks i won't be playing a ganon so never mind, i'll use it in tournies, speaking of which i couldn't make it to SGAB so thats why i'm here, but i did manage to go to a smash fest yesterday.
oh and how do you wavedash just out of couriosity?
 

Jeroentjee123

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
7
so i can just put on a stock battle with unlimited stock on and just go to sleep and the next morning i got some more chance to get a challange of mewto ?
 

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
976
Location
3713 Vivian rd 77093
You can dash out of a reverse waveshine just as easily as a regular waveshine. It takes one more frame. Turning around in shine takes three frames. Therefore there is a two-frame advantage to reverse waveshining over turning around.

And I'm pretty sure the reverse drillshine infinite is inescapable, at least for Link and Peach. This is difficult to test by myself, however.

The wall infinites can be SDI'd, though.

And Dawn001, I C-stick dairs, always.
this is how i find it faster i wavedash with Y and R for the wavedash then short hop with Y + sliding your fingers towards the C-stick the reflect followed by the wavedash
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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There's no difference in c-sticking your aerails vs not. nor using Y or Z. And it's completely absurd to say you can do it for 3 times exactly.
@ reverse waveshining, it's not about how long it takes for the wavedash to get there, there's plenty of time for that.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
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Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
There's no difference in c-sticking your aerails vs not. nor using Y or Z. And it's completely absurd to say you can do it for 3 times exactly.
@ reverse waveshining, it's not about how long it takes for the wavedash to get there, there's plenty of time for that.
Of course there's a difference in C-sticking vs. not. You have more aerial control when you C-stick. This is strictly true.

So tell me again why I shouldn't reverse waveshine when I can do it faster than turning around? Your vague assurance of me having "plenty of time" is not very convincing.
 

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
976
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3713 Vivian rd 77093
There's no difference in c-sticking your aerails vs not. nor using Y or Z. And it's completely absurd to say you can do it for 3 times exactly.
@ reverse waveshining, it's not about how long it takes for the wavedash to get there, there's plenty of time for that.
bull i can i have ! i dont do the reverse because i dont like it i just go fowards and you are right my mistake but what about vs a samus , marth the get reflected far as hell!

well just a courious question whats wrong with that this is a fox topic there is nothing wrong with that if you want ill tell you how i do it i use Y + R
 

brawlpro

Smash Master
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so i can just put on a stock battle with unlimited stock on and just go to sleep and the next morning i got some more chance to get a challange of mewto ?
aite to unlock mewtwo you gotta do either of 2 things...play iono like 700 vs battles, or have a combined vs play time of 20hrs, take two controllers and start a fight but just leave em there, go to pkmn stadium i guess and put up like 2 stock, when you wake up after maybe 7-8 hrs the game will say you played vs mode combined for 14-16 hrs cause 2 ppl were playing...get it.
 

brawlpro

Smash Master
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Jul 2, 2007
Messages
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Florissant, St. Louis, MO Tech Skill: Over 9000
hey don't double post, but your new so i'm sure the mods won't be after you for this, if you play with 3 then it'll be faster, with four you'll get him after 5hrs if you didn't play vs mode at all before, but i'm saying you did play before so more like 3 hrs...
 

Jeroentjee123

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
7
hey don't double post, but your new so i'm sure the mods won't be after you for this, if you play with 3 then it'll be faster, with four you'll get him after 5hrs if you didn't play vs mode at all before, but i'm saying you did play before so more like 3 hrs...
yeah sorry i saw i did something wrong, sorry mods, i swear it wasn't to get some more postcount or somethin... You know im on some other forum and if you just fast reply there it'll be merged with your post before.. sorry bout that than. Ok ty for the tips. Im off to sleep + getting mewtwo :p
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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Of course there's a difference in C-sticking vs. not. You have more aerial control when you C-stick. This is strictly true.

So tell me again why I shouldn't reverse waveshine when I can do it faster than turning around? Your vague assurance of me having "plenty of time" is not very convincing.
The part that a player can escape a drillshine is after the drill but before the shine. If SDI was unsuccessful, you should have plenty of time to just wavedash and continue. scotu is not saying it shouldn't be done, but rather that there is no real need for it.

SDIing out of drills is just SDIing out. It can happen as early as the first drill. It just depends on reaction of the player getting hit. I'll have to compile a quick video of this later just to convince you people, I suppose.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
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The part that a player can escape a drillshine is after the drill but before the shine. If SDI was unsuccessful, you should have plenty of time to just wavedash and continue. scotu is not saying it shouldn't be done, but rather that there is no real need for it.

SDIing out of drills is just SDIing out. It can happen as early as the first drill. It just depends on reaction of the player getting hit. I'll have to compile a quick video of this later just to convince you people, I suppose.
I'll just quote Overswarm here because he knows his ****.

Overswarm said:
This is not true if the drill kick is fast falled and is occuring INSIDE the character's frame. If the Fox is merely approaching with a drillshine and hits on the outer left or right side, it is easy to get out of, but if the Fox is inside it is very unlikely for a player to SDI out of it. If the Fox happens to be DIing the way that the character is SDIing, he can still hit them as well.
 

SCOTU

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except for the rare case (as in this one), where i believe overswarm is wrong. When I get home from work, I'll check just to make sure, but i believe, no matter how well one places a drillshine, it can be SDI'd out of.
 

dawn001

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
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3713 Vivian rd 77093
except for the rare case (as in this one), where i believe overswarm is wrong. When I get home from work, I'll check just to make sure, but i believe, no matter how well one places a drillshine, it can be SDI'd out of.
i see your videos scotu and i must say you are good but slow!! losing to pikachu iam not saying that you know you lost to a pikachu because i dont believe high tier or low tier but still you still need work with your fox me a play kind of like javi but not as fast as him i have mindgames and he well he just does the same thing over but somehow it work but yeah!
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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Ok. People, please stop speculating about other people. First off: Pika has a decent matchup against fox. for combing, and gimping, while fox doesn't have a great combo/ gimp/ edgeguarding game against Pika. Second: Anther's Better that I, he's a much stronger thinker than I, places higher in tourney's than I do, and I'm ok with losing to better players. 3rd: My fox is slow. Maybe that's because i'm a scrub? just a thought. Why don't some of you guys check my thread (see Sig) and help me to be less scrubby.
4th: If you think you need to use the cstick to get enough aerial control to get behind someone while drillshining, you can think again. I get enough (easily) to crossup marth (DIing away) while drillshining (for an inversion), and i use Z, not C.
5th: Why would you use Y over X anyway if you're trying to get to C? X is way closer.
6th: perhaps there was some misscommunication. I was saying that it's absurd to say one can only combo ganon for 3 itterations max before he jabs you. I can drillshine ganon way more than that. Unless the cpu is programmed to SDI after the 3rd itteration or something stupid like that.
 

Shai Hulud

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Ok. People, please stop speculating about other people. First off: Pika has a decent matchup against fox. for combing, and gimping, while fox doesn't have a great combo/ gimp/ edgeguarding game against Pika. Second: Anther's Better that I, he's a much stronger thinker than I, places higher in tourney's than I do, and I'm ok with losing to better players. 3rd: My fox is slow. Maybe that's because i'm a scrub? just a thought. Why don't some of you guys check my thread and help me to be less scrubby.
4th: If you think you need to use the cstick to get enough aerial control to get behind someone while drillshining, you can think again. I get enough (easily) to crossup marth (DIing away) while drillshining (for an inversion), and i use Z, not C.
5th: Why would you use Y over X anyway if you're trying to get to C? X is way closer.
6th: perhaps there was some misscommunication. I was saying that it's absurd to say one can only combo ganon for 3 itterations max before he jabs you. I can drillshine ganon way more than that. Unless the cpu is programmed to SDI after the 3rd itteration or something stupid like that.
I didn't say you couldn't do it with the A or Z button, but you do lose control. I assume you have a reason for using Z--presumably you can hit it faster. This is fine. Still I don't think you can really argue that you don't lose something.

And man, losing to Pikachu? The shame! Not really...there's a really good Pikachu around here named Chad who owns my soul. I know how it is.
 

SCOTU

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I'm not saying you don't lose anything by using Z. I typically lose no more than 5 frames of aerial control. I'm just saying that you don't lose enough to make a difference when it comes to drillshining. And yes, it's very easy to press Z to get frame perfect drill kicks. i didn't get a chance to play pika chad, but i did get owned by N64.
 

Shök

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
2,251
yeah, you cant rally see it. hey so brawlpro, so are oyu getting a myspace?
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
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Red = Hitbox, yellow = hurtbox.

Sorry for the confusion, but i wanted to place fox "well inside of their frame". Just to test overswarm's theory(?).

Just look at where peach is positioned in relation to fox, since during the first 3, fox doesn't move due to hitlag.
 

brawlpro

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in about a month and a half...13. sumthin posts per day, hey y'know i'm younger than you...anywayz need any fox help??? i might be able to help you, but since i can get owned easily by others i try to stay away from givin avice to ppl better than me, it backfires...
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
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Northville, MI
in about a month and a half...13. sumthin posts per day, hey y'know i'm younger than you...anywayz need any fox help??? i might be able to help you, but since i can get owned easily by others i try to stay away from givin avice to ppl better than me, it backfires...
****, you're beating me. I've only got 12.57 posts/day.
 
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