Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[gm jack]

It doesn't matter what the "point" is. It matters what the effect is. It doesn't grant unlimited invincibility. It just creates an advantageous defensive position.

+1

If you use planking to get out of a disadvantageous position, go for it. However, it does have stalling potential, so a TO may need to be called over if it is being used excessively to hold a percentage lead.

 

[DanGR]

Yes, and I'm absolutely against banning aircamping because every character should be able to beat it because it's not like the characters doing this (which mainly is actually Wario) are in the air for 8 minutes, unreachable.

Agreed.

Furthermore, infinite Chaingrabs are stalling, too. Stalling is, as defined in the SBR Ruleset:
"The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling."

I am against banning strategies in general if they aren't investigated, and especially against
banning them if they haven't had any extreme impact on a tournament. This doesn't mean one or two sets now and then, I mean like, really really dominating a tournament by just using this technique.
The IDC, though, is a glitch that can be used for Stalling. Since it's hard to determine if the user of an IDC is stalling or not, the tactic has simply been banned.

I don't think you're getting my point. I'm saying that, by the anti-ban logic displayed in the OP, stalling should not be banned- that logic being it's beatable, or rather it's "within the realm of human ability."

I remember people bringing up the comparison with Akuma's Fireball. Akuma's Fireball is in his game and was programmed to work like it is, so it is indeed part of the character.
I'm pretty sure that the developers of Brawl didn't intend to have something like the IDC happen, hence it's a glitch that is able to break the game - thus has to be banned.

Glitches don't all necessarily break the game. I don't know what you're getting at here.

A reasonable human being?

Those things are banned because it changes the game from fighting into a game about planking/stalling.

It's a fighting game. MK is beatable by fighting. He is beatable by characters other than MK. If you hop on the logic train it will lead you out of the great state of Denial and reach its destination at the corner of Sound Conclusion and Not-Banned MK.

Planking and stalling haven't been proven to over-centralize the game to the point where they are the only viable strategies yet. They shouldn't be banned for that reason.

And MK? Yeah, he's beatable. Just like planking and stalling are. No ban for either, right?
/anti-ban logic.

IDC is banned because it overcentralizes the metagame. The principal behind ALL infinite stalls is the same, once you obtain a percent lead and activate the infinite stall, it's essentially game over.

This was found to overcentralize the metagame, because it's just an enormous advantage to need only a percent advantage that it results in the character that has it being the only viable character and the tactic becoming the only viable tactic. If more characters then one have it, it still is the only viable tactic, but only the characters that can do it are viable. Because IDC is an infinite stall, it was banned on statutory grounds. This meant that we do did not have to explore the other possible implications of the technique.

I agree that it does over-centralize the game, just as I think Meta Knight does. (I'm not getting into those reasons) The fact of the matter, though, is that the IDC has not yet been proven to over-centralize the game in a tournament setting through empirical data, just as Meta Knight hasn't. If the anti-ban side is going to use the double-standard that Meta-Knight has to be proven "broken" in a tournament environment, but the IDC doesn't, then something is wrong here.

Planking is NOT an infinite stall and should not be banned. It remains an untested strategy and has not been proven banworthy.

I agree.

 

[Exceladon City]

In hobo 17 there were 4 diddys in the top 8

Sure, diddy may have counters, but he was still used a lot. Other characters will still be used too much too with MK gone. Even if he does have counters.

Your over-centralization argument is weak.

You pointed out that Diddy has counters which means that there won't be an infestation of the little monkey in Top 8. Wario, Snake, Luigi, Falco, Marth and countless others go even or advantage Diddy Kong. I mean it's a given that Top/High tiers are gonna be used in high level play but those same characters can be countered/beaten by other characters which makes it less likely to see the same 4-5 characters in Top 8.

 

[MorphedChaos]

I'd like to say this. Once people overcome their boundaries and can use MK's frame advantages, he will be broken. (Not likely, but it can happen.)

 

[swordgard]

Agreed.


I don't think you're getting my point. I'm saying that, by the anti-ban logic displayed in the OP, stalling should not be banned- that logic being it's beatable, or rather it's "within the realm of human ability."


Glitches don't all necessarily break the game. I don't know what you're getting at here.


Planking and stalling haven't been proven to over-centralize the game to the point where they are the only viable strategies yet. They shouldn't be banned for that reason.

And MK? Yeah, he's beatable. Just like planking and stalling are. No ban for either, right?
/anti-ban logic.


I agree that it does over-centralize the game, just as I think Meta Knight does. (I'm not getting into those reasons) The fact of the matter, though, is that the IDC has not yet been proven to over-centralize the game in a tournament setting through empirical data, just as Meta Knight hasn't. If the anti-ban side is going to use the double-standard that Meta-Knight has to be proven "broken" in a tournament environment, but the IDC doesn't, then something is wrong here.


I agree.

Any type of infinite invincible stall will create overcentralization. You dont even need empirical data on this. At high level, games can go back and forth. To never get a % disadvamtage you need to be much better than the other player. Result: Everyone who wants to even stand a chance needs to pick up the infinite stall tactic.

 

[Clai]

MK has IDC.

That is broken. Thus, MK is broken.

Ban the character, not the tactic.

Tactics can be banned when they operate against the rules that were already established for us. Or are you saying that Sonic should be banned because getting a percent lead and then going under the stage and using Homing Attacks all day is classified as a tactic.

~KBizzle

Agreed. Well...let's hear what you have to say on this, anti-ban. You all seem to snap at every other argument with vigor and haste. Doesn't the quick banning of planking and IDC (I can understand the latter for obvious reasons) go against the same logic you all followed in the MK issue?

EDIT: People...forget about the ****ing IDC point. It's obvious why it is banned. Now please answer the question about planking.​

~The Gifted Unknown​

​

Someone explain this to me: If the IDC and planking weren't proven to be "unbeatable," why was it banned? By anti-ban logic, they shouldn't have been.

I think everyone's established that the IDC is clearly a bannable technique because it's a gross violation of rules dealing with stalling. Now about planking, if only there was some someone that responded to this question by making a thread about it in the Brawl Tactical Thread. Oh wait, I did that.

Planking does not need to be banned. The parts about planking that piss people off (running towards the ledge to stall for minutes when there was no reason to retreat to the ledge in the first place) is already banned under stalling. Everything else is completely viable.

The TO might ban anything, but he/she doesn't have to.

This is like, common sense. >_>

Attention TO's!

There is a character in Brawl that is in serious danger of ruining the Brawl community. This character, when played correctly, can make the game unplayable and unbearable to enjoy.

That character is Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff was and still remains a great character in Melee because her fantastic defensive aerial game coupled with comboes/set-ups to one of the most lethal moves in the game- Rest. In the transition to Brawl, Rest had been nerfed to a shell of its Melee companion and the notion of comboes has been completely removed from Jigglypuff's game.

What we have left is a miserable character that still happens to piss everyone off.

With no ground game to speak of and no reliable kill moves on the ground, Jigglypuff is forced to remain in the air for the entire match if she desires to win anything. In essence, Jigglypuff spends all of her matches air-planking opponents and this strategy applies to every part of her game- racking up damage, escaping perilous situations, and killing opponents. That's right, while Metaknight at least has kill moves in his down-smash and glide attacks, Jigglypuff has to kill her opponents by literally air-planking them to death. With a combination of five jumps, a nice damage-racker in back-air, a strong knockback move in forward-air, and a quick interrupt with neutral-air, Jigglypuff can compete with any character off-stage, and unless the opponent has perfect prediction skills or perfect use of long-range aerials, even the mightiest of recoveries can be cut down by Jigglypuff's gimping prowress. Not to mention that even if you get back to the stage, you can get caught in one of Jigglypuff's ledge-canceled Sings, and that's just embarrasing.

Don't let Jigglypuff's awful matchups fool you- just the mere existence of Jigglypuff overcentralizes the metagame to focus on defeating her, because nobody wants to lose to such a sad and pathetic character. As for her tournament placings, tournaments have alreaady enacted a 'soft ban' of sorts on her, as anyone who is seen using Jigglypuff in an actual tournament match is going to be the object of ridicule and scorn. While other terrible characters have a rich background story of being a hero (such as Link or Samus), or are simply just too cool to make fun of (such as Captain Falcon or Ganondorf), Jigglypuff has the broken combination of being terrible, an absolute bore to use, and a history of being nothing but a complete troll (watch any episode of Pokemon with Jigglypuff in it and tell me I'm wrong).

We need to ban Jigglypuff in tournaments now, before more people realize how insanely effective using a dull and boring character to the fullest of its trolling abilities can get. Once Jigglypuff starts to get mastered, matchups against her will plummet to 0-100, as players will lose hope of Brawl after having to put up with a master Jigglypuff player and forfeit mid-match. Ban her now and save the community while we can.

 

[Red Arremer]

Attention TO's!

There is a character in Brawl that is in serious danger of ruining the Brawl community. This character, when played correctly, can make the game unplayable and unbearable to enjoy.

That character is Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff was and still remains a great character in Melee because her fantastic defensive aerial game coupled with comboes/set-ups to one of the most lethal moves in the game- Rest. In the transition to Brawl, Rest had been nerfed to a shell of its Melee companion and the notion of comboes has been completely removed from Jigglypuff's game.

What we have left is a miserable character that still happens to piss everyone off.

With no ground game to speak of and no reliable kill moves on the ground, Jigglypuff is forced to remain in the air for the entire match if she desires to win anything. In essence, Jigglypuff spends all of her matches air-planking opponents and this strategy applies to every part of her game- racking up damage, escaping perilous situations, and killing opponents. That's right, while Metaknight at least has kill moves in his down-smash and glide attacks, Jigglypuff has to kill her opponents by literally air-planking them to death. With a combination of five jumps, a nice damage-racker in back-air, a strong knockback move in forward-air, and a quick interrupt with neutral-air, Jigglypuff can compete with any character off-stage, and unless the opponent has perfect prediction skills or perfect use of long-range aerials, even the mightiest of recoveries can be cut down by Jigglypuff's gimping prowress. Not to mention that even if you get back to the stage, you can get caught in one of Jigglypuff's ledge-canceled Sings, and that's just embarrasing.

Don't let Jigglypuff's awful matchups fool you- just the mere existence of Jigglypuff overcentralizes the metagame to focus on defeating her, because nobody wants to lose to such a sad and pathetic character. As for her tournament placings, tournaments have alreaady enacted a 'soft ban' of sorts on her, as anyone who is seen using Jigglypuff in an actual tournament match is going to be the object of ridicule and scorn. While other terrible characters have a rich background story of being a hero (such as Link or Samus), or are simply just too cool to make fun of (such as Captain Falcon or Ganondorf), Jigglypuff has the broken combination of being terrible, an absolute bore to use, and a history of being nothing but a complete troll (watch any episode of Pokemon with Jigglypuff in it and tell me I'm wrong).

We need to ban Jigglypuff in tournaments now, before more people realize how insanely effective using a dull and boring character to the fullest of its trolling abilities can get. Once Jigglypuff starts to get mastered, matchups against her will plummet to 0-100, as players will lose hope of Brawl after having to put up with a master Jigglypuff player and forfeit mid-match. Ban her now and save the community while we can.

This is so awesome that I have to quote it.

 

[kirbywizard]

This is so awesome that I have to quote it.

I almost chocked on my cookier reading the post you quoted.

 

[MXblaze]

Clai, you are horribly unfunny.

 

[munkus beaver]

Planking and stalling haven't been proven to over-centralize the game to the point where they are the only viable strategies yet. They shouldn't be banned for that reason.

And MK? Yeah, he's beatable. Just like planking and stalling are. No ban for either, right?
/anti-ban logic.

Stalling isn't beatable. I don't know where you got that idea in your head. That's more or less the point. You get ahead then you make it impossible for the other person to get to you.

There is a difference between playing defensively and playing to run out the clock. Yes, intent is important. I don't know why some people think it isn't, but it is.

 

[ANTi_]

Meta Knight Will Not Be Banned

 

[MXblaze]

Ban planking so everyone can stop bicthing.

 

[BBQTV]

Tactics can be banned when they operate against the rules that were already established for us. Or are you saying that Sonic should be banned because getting a percent lead and then going under the stage and using Homing Attacks all day is classified as a tactic.





I think everyone's established that the IDC is clearly a bannable technique because it's a gross violation of rules dealing with stalling. Now about planking, if only there was some someone that responded to this question by making a thread about it in the Brawl Tactical Thread. Oh wait, I did that.

Planking does not need to be banned. The parts about planking that piss people off (running towards the ledge to stall for minutes when there was no reason to retreat to the ledge in the first place) is already banned under stalling. Everything else is completely viable.



Attention TO's!

There is a character in Brawl that is in serious danger of ruining the Brawl community. This character, when played correctly, can make the game unplayable and unbearable to enjoy.

That character is Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff was and still remains a great character in Melee because her fantastic defensive aerial game coupled with comboes/set-ups to one of the most lethal moves in the game- Rest. In the transition to Brawl, Rest had been nerfed to a shell of its Melee companion and the notion of comboes has been completely removed from Jigglypuff's game.

What we have left is a miserable character that still happens to piss everyone off.

With no ground game to speak of and no reliable kill moves on the ground, Jigglypuff is forced to remain in the air for the entire match if she desires to win anything. In essence, Jigglypuff spends all of her matches air-planking opponents and this strategy applies to every part of her game- racking up damage, escaping perilous situations, and killing opponents. That's right, while Metaknight at least has kill moves in his down-smash and glide attacks, Jigglypuff has to kill her opponents by literally air-planking them to death. With a combination of five jumps, a nice damage-racker in back-air, a strong knockback move in forward-air, and a quick interrupt with neutral-air, Jigglypuff can compete with any character off-stage, and unless the opponent has perfect prediction skills or perfect use of long-range aerials, even the mightiest of recoveries can be cut down by Jigglypuff's gimping prowress. Not to mention that even if you get back to the stage, you can get caught in one of Jigglypuff's ledge-canceled Sings, and that's just embarrasing.

Don't let Jigglypuff's awful matchups fool you- just the mere existence of Jigglypuff overcentralizes the metagame to focus on defeating her, because nobody wants to lose to such a sad and pathetic character. As for her tournament placings, tournaments have alreaady enacted a 'soft ban' of sorts on her, as anyone who is seen using Jigglypuff in an actual tournament match is going to be the object of ridicule and scorn. While other terrible characters have a rich background story of being a hero (such as Link or Samus), or are simply just too cool to make fun of (such as Captain Falcon or Ganondorf), Jigglypuff has the broken combination of being terrible, an absolute bore to use, and a history of being nothing but a complete troll (watch any episode of Pokemon with Jigglypuff in it and tell me I'm wrong).

We need to ban Jigglypuff in tournaments now, before more people realize how insanely effective using a dull and boring character to the fullest of its trolling abilities can get. Once Jigglypuff starts to get mastered, matchups against her will plummet to 0-100, as players will lose hope of Brawl after having to put up with a master Jigglypuff player and forfeit mid-match. Ban her now and save the community while we can.

this is so awesome that it gets to be quoted twice

 

[Clai]

Ban planking so everyone can stop bicthing.

There is nothing wrong with using an effective strategy if it doesn't break or overcentralize the game (Considering that tournament finals aren't boiled down to 'massive planker vs massive planker' I'm inclined to believe that planking isn't broken).

The people whining about it are just going to have to accept that planking is a good strategy and focus their efforts on surpassing it, that is, if they really fear that they'll go up against a planker in tournaments.

Besides, we can't listen to whiners if they're spouting things that aren't true. If we don't listen to them, they'll either just leave or work toward beating it so they don't have to complain anymore.

 

[Exceladon City]

Tactics can be banned when they operate against the rules that were already established for us. Or are you saying that Sonic should be banned because getting a percent lead and then going under the stage and using Homing Attacks all day is classified as a tactic.

L2spotdodge. Your point is now invalid.

 

[MarKO X]

Stalling isn't beatable. I don't know where you got that idea in your head. That's more or less the point. You get ahead then you make it impossible for the other person to get to you.

There is a difference between playing defensively and playing to run out the clock. Yes, intent is important. I don't know why some people think it isn't, but it is.

If you are playing to run the clock while you are completely capable of getting hit, what's the problem?

 

[Clai]

L2spotdodge. Your point is now invalid.

I don't get it. Do spotdodges somehow prevent Sonic from stalling under the stage where you can't reach him? Really, I want to know. What does spotdodging have to do with anything I said?

 

[DanGR]

If you are playing to run the clock while you are completely capable of getting hit, what's the problem?

Cuz the SBR banned it. Duuuuuh.

I don't get it. Do spotdodges somehow prevent Sonic from stalling under the stage where you can't reach him? Really, I want to know. What does spotdodging have to do with anything I said?

If you spotdodge, Sonic has no target. He'll simply fall.

 

[rinoH]

No ban for MK all the other fighting communities will laugh at us for it not like i really care though

 

[DanGR]

No ban for MK all the other fighting communities will laugh at us for it not like i really care though

Because they're really important to us, right?

 

[adumbrodeus]

+1

If you use planking to get out of a disadvantageous position, go for it. However, it does have stalling potential, so a TO may need to be called over if it is being used excessively to hold a percentage lead.

There's no real way to differentiate.


Understand how the strategy works, you gain the percent lead, and then force you opponent to approach you while you're in a powerful defensive position (the ledge).

The strategy is indistinguishable from holding on to a percent lead. But that's ok, why?

Because even if their intent is to hold onto a percent lead, they're not invincible (either in theory or defacto, and it needs to be both) indefinitely. So, unless the strategy is overpowered, a smart opponent will find ways around it if their character has the tools and it just contributes to match-ups.

Falco being bad against it is part of the reason why I think falco's match-up against MK is poor.

I agree that it does over-centralize the game, just as I think Meta Knight does. (I'm not getting into those reasons) The fact of the matter, though, is that the IDC has not yet been proven to over-centralize the game in a tournament setting through empirical data, just as Meta Knight hasn't. If the anti-ban side is going to use the double-standard that Meta-Knight has to be proven "broken" in a tournament environment, but the IDC doesn't, then something is wrong here.

Infinite stalls HAVE been known to overcentralize, even before smash.

The IDC doesn't need specific data, because it overcentralizes by proven attribute, and therefore can be banned on statuatory grounds, just like all other infinite stalls.

Planking does not need to be banned. The parts about planking that piss people off (running towards the ledge to stall for minutes when there was no reason to retreat to the ledge in the first place) is already banned under stalling. Everything else is completely viable.

Actually no, "infinite stalling" only covers defacto and theoretical invincibility that is indefinite.

Using it to hold a percent lead is indistinguishable from using it as a defensive position.

That said, it hasn't shown to be overcentralizing, and therefore should not be banned, at least not yet.

I do think part of the reason is that people don't plank, because it suffers from the "mk effect", making it unpopular because it's seen as cheap. Unfortunately, with a mentality like that, we'll never know if it's banworthy.

Attention TO's!

There is a character in Brawl that is in serious danger of ruining the Brawl community. This character, when played correctly, can make the game unplayable and unbearable to enjoy.

That character is Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff was and still remains a great character in Melee because her fantastic defensive aerial game coupled with comboes/set-ups to one of the most lethal moves in the game- Rest. In the transition to Brawl, Rest had been nerfed to a shell of its Melee companion and the notion of comboes has been completely removed from Jigglypuff's game.

What we have left is a miserable character that still happens to piss everyone off.

With no ground game to speak of and no reliable kill moves on the ground, Jigglypuff is forced to remain in the air for the entire match if she desires to win anything. In essence, Jigglypuff spends all of her matches air-planking opponents and this strategy applies to every part of her game- racking up damage, escaping perilous situations, and killing opponents. That's right, while Metaknight at least has kill moves in his down-smash and glide attacks, Jigglypuff has to kill her opponents by literally air-planking them to death. With a combination of five jumps, a nice damage-racker in back-air, a strong knockback move in forward-air, and a quick interrupt with neutral-air, Jigglypuff can compete with any character off-stage, and unless the opponent has perfect prediction skills or perfect use of long-range aerials, even the mightiest of recoveries can be cut down by Jigglypuff's gimping prowress. Not to mention that even if you get back to the stage, you can get caught in one of Jigglypuff's ledge-canceled Sings, and that's just embarrasing.

Don't let Jigglypuff's awful matchups fool you- just the mere existence of Jigglypuff overcentralizes the metagame to focus on defeating her, because nobody wants to lose to such a sad and pathetic character. As for her tournament placings, tournaments have alreaady enacted a 'soft ban' of sorts on her, as anyone who is seen using Jigglypuff in an actual tournament match is going to be the object of ridicule and scorn. While other terrible characters have a rich background story of being a hero (such as Link or Samus), or are simply just too cool to make fun of (such as Captain Falcon or Ganondorf), Jigglypuff has the broken combination of being terrible, an absolute bore to use, and a history of being nothing but a complete troll (watch any episode of Pokemon with Jigglypuff in it and tell me I'm wrong).

We need to ban Jigglypuff in tournaments now, before more people realize how insanely effective using a dull and boring character to the fullest of its trolling abilities can get. Once Jigglypuff starts to get mastered, matchups against her will plummet to 0-100, as players will lose hope of Brawl after having to put up with a master Jigglypuff player and forfeit mid-match. Ban her now and save the community while we can.

Thank you Clai, that was amazing.

There is nothing wrong with using an effective strategy if it doesn't break or overcentralize the game (Considering that tournament finals aren't boiled down to 'massive planker vs massive planker' I'm inclined to believe that planking isn't broken).

The people whining about it are just going to have to accept that planking is a good strategy and focus their efforts on surpassing it, that is, if they really fear that they'll go up against a planker in tournaments.

Besides, we can't listen to whiners if they're spouting things that aren't true. If we don't listen to them, they'll either just leave or work toward beating it so they don't have to complain anymore.

Exactly my thoughts on planking. If it's banworthy, it will reveal itself as such, but for now, there's not enough evidence.

 

[•Col•]

I don't get it. Do spotdodges somehow prevent Sonic from stalling under the stage where you can't reach him? Really, I want to know. What does spotdodging have to do with anything I said?

Whenever you spotdodge, Sonic's homing attack can't "home" in on you and instead does that little.... Shoot straight down thing.

So yeah, if they're stalling under the stage with homing attack and you spotdodge, they die.

 

[rinoH]

Because they're really important to us, right?

Not really

 

[•Col•]

No ban for MK all the other fighting communities will laugh at us for it not like i really care though

They already laugh at us anyway.

 

[Bimz]

Jigglypuff is not comparable at all to MK when it comes to planking.

His attacks are quicker, have more priority ,last longer, and have more range.

 

[Exceladon City]

Whenever you spotdodge, Sonic's homing attack can't "home" in on you and instead does that little.... Shoot straight down thing.

So yeah, if they're stalling under the stage with homing attack and you spotdodge, they die.

They die if they don't have a jump otherwise you can SDR > spinjump and recover like normal. Granted, you aren't already deathly close to the blastzone.

 

[Bimz]

If you have never had anyone plank against you, I don't think you can really say anything on the matter. Otherwise you would realize immediately that it should be banned.

 

[Clai]

There's no real way to differentiate.


Understand how the strategy works, you gain the percent lead, and then force you opponent to approach you while you're in a powerful defensive position (the ledge).

The strategy is indistinguishable from holding on to a percent lead. But that's ok, why?

Because even if their intent is to hold onto a percent lead, they're not invincible (either in theory or defacto, and it needs to be both) indefinitely. So, unless the strategy is overpowered, a smart opponent will find ways around it if their character has the tools and it just contributes to match-ups.

Falco being bad against it is part of the reason why I think falco's match-up against MK is poor.

Why are trying to hold a percent lead when the point of Brawl, all of Smash, is to KO your opponents? Holding a percent lead for the last minute of a match is understandable, but playing the game just to keep a percent lead for 3, 4, 5 minutes is unncessary and makes the game unplayable. That's probably what the rulemakers had in mind when they banned stalling in the first place.

Yes, being on the ledge is a powerful defensive spot, but it holds no value as an offensive tool, as it completely takes away your ground options. Running toward the ledge when the position advantage is neutral makes no sense at all. You aren't gaining anything in terms of getting closer to killing your opponent, so the only point I see in doing that is just stalling out the clock. That's why I think abusing the ledge for no purpose other than keeping yourself from getting gimped and/or taking away the pressure from your opponent to return to the stage should be banned under stalling. This applies to all characters too, not just MK.

As for the matchups, if planking ends up being a really effective strategy against certain characters, then more people will start to use the strategy andit will re-write matchup discussions. We'll see how many characters are truly affected by planking.

 

[DanGR]

Infinite stalls HAVE been known to overcentralize, even before smash.

Infinite stalls of other games are quite irrelevant, considering Smash has a totally different physics engine.

The IDC doesn't need specific data, because it overcentralizes by proven attribute, and therefore can be banned on statuatory grounds, just like all other infinite stalls.

Would you mind clarifying how the IDC "overcentralizes by proven attribute"? I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Btw, statuatory is spelled "statutory".

 

[MarKO X]

If you have never had anyone plank against you, I don't think you can really say anything on the matter. Otherwise you would realize immediately that it should be banned.

lol @ this logic.

On Sonic's stall, apparently, there is a way to keep Homing Attacking the bottom of the stage even if you spotdodge or jump away from Sonic's ability to lock on to you. I don't the specifics though, and the average Sonic probably doesn't either... but it's hilarious to see a Sonic try to stall, only to die due to a spotdodge or a jump.

to DanGR: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8030535&postcount=6954
I can run the clock in the air. =D

 

[Bimz]

lol @ this logic.

On Sonic's stall, apparently, there is a way to keep Homing Attacking the bottom of the stage even if you spotdodge or jump away from Sonic's ability to lock on to you. I don't the specifics though, and the average Sonic probably doesn't either... but it's hilarious to see a Sonic try to stall, only to die due to a spotdodge or a jump.

to DanGR: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8030535&postcount=6954
I can run the clock in the air. =D

Im not talking about sonic.........

 

[Bimz]

If MK was banned(wont happen):

-no more arguing about planking IDC and EDC and other broken tactics
-more CP potential
-more balance
-some MK players quit

If hes not banned:

-more arguing
-more BS in tourneys
-people quit
-more MKs

thats an unbiased look at the future of the MK decision

 

[MarKO X]

Why are trying to hold a percent lead when the point of Brawl, all of Smash, is to KO your opponents? Holding a percent lead for the last minute of a match is understandable, but playing the game just to keep a percent lead for 3, 4, 5 minutes is unncessary and makes the game unplayable. That's probably what the rulemakers had in mind when they banned stalling in the first place.

The point of Brawl, all of Smash, all of competitive fighting, is to win. KOs are not the only way to win.

Yes, being on the ledge is a powerful defensive spot, but it holds no value as an offensive tool, as it completely takes away your ground options. Running toward the ledge when the position advantage is neutral makes no sense at all. You aren't gaining anything in terms of getting closer to killing your opponent, so the only point I see in doing that is just stalling out the clock. That's why I think abusing the ledge for no purpose other than keeping yourself from getting gimped and/or taking away the pressure from your opponent to return to the stage should be banned under stalling. This applies to all characters too, not just MK.

If being on the ledge is a powerful defensive spot, and you have the lead, meaning that you don't have to approach, what's the difference between standing on the stage and chillin on the ledge? If it's a powerful defensive tool, isn't just a more powerful shield, spotdodge, etc.? Why does a specific defense need to be banned?

As for the matchups, if planking ends up being a really effective strategy against certain characters, then more people will start to use the strategy andit will re-write matchup discussions. We'll see how many characters are truly affected by planking.

Unfortunately, planking (both ledge and air) is looked down upon my our community, and is "soft banned" in a sense because of it. Thus, we won't truly know how anything is affected by planking until it becomes something that people will do more often, rather than in times of dire need.

 

[MarKO X]

Im not talking about sonic.........

:D
my bad, definitely does look like its tied together like that, but i definitely knew you weren't talking about Sonic.

 

[Red Arremer]

Jigglypuff is not comparable at all to MK when it comes to planking.

And you're an idiot to take that seriously.

 

[eLantern]

If you voted Pro-Ban, you're probably a democrat... lol.

 

[Sosuke]

If you voted Anti-Ban, you probably main MK... lol.

 

[Bimz]

whats a democrate?

 

[link2702]

lol filler

 

[Bimz]

And you're an idiot to take that seriously.

Sorry, I thought that since anti-ban people were humping that guys leg like a jack russell.. maybe you guys actually supported his statement.