Document by praxis
Answers in yellow
I am going to be extremely condecending because im tired of bad arguments like these.
MK IS BROKEN
I will begin by defining the term “broken.” While it may be used differently by numerous forums and communities, I’m going to make up a special definition simply for this argument.
Broken: A word used to describe an element in a video game that does belong. It is above the level of the game and its mechanics and renders the game virtually uncompetitive without the use of said element.
Wow, your first actual definition proves hes not broken. The game is still competitive with MK, ally won genesis, even if he had been 2nd he would have competed with all the other MKs and non MKs
My argument is that the character Meta Knight (referred to from now on as “MK”) is broken and should not be allowed in tournaments or competitive Brawl.
Let’s start with his moveset. Most movesets, no matter how good they are, have downsides. Holes or weaknesses in a characters moveset lead to their downfall, as an enemy can exploit these weaknesses to their advantage. Certain characters can exploit the weaknesses in other characters movesets better than others, which is where bad matchups come along (which is why MK has no bad matchups). I’ll now go through the properties of MK’s moveset, and show why his moves were designed with no holes, no flaws, nothing to abuse.
And il show you otherwise ^.^. I still wonder how only 3 MKs made top 8 at genesis with no flaws, no holes and nothing to abuse. With the show of this ample evidence, I think it is provable that MK’s moveset is not in line with the rest of the cast, and he does not belong as a character in competitive play.
1. His sword moves are made of transcendent priority
-Transcendent priority means that they will not clash with anything. They have the priority that the Star Fox characters’ lasers have.
****z, you got me there. Broken as hell, lets ban. OH WAIT!!! Lets say i use a character, jump, and attack. Guess what? Aerials were made to use transcendent priority. I dont remember marths fsmash ever clashing with other aerials.... Hmm, ban aerials? Seriously, this isnt broken, stop trying.
-The only moves that MK has that can clash are glide attack, dash attack, and his special moves.
So?
2. Aerials (Oh boy)
Up aerial
-It comes out in 2 frames
-Lasts only 13 frames
-Invincibility on airdodges lasts around 25 frames for most characters, and an entire airdodge lasts from 39 to 49 frames depending on the character. Thus it is impossible to get away from metaknight’s u-air by airdodging. He can do an up air and have at least 10-20 frames to do whatever he wants (if the opponent dodges frame-perfectly)
-Invincibility on spotdodges lasts around 18 frames for most characters, and the entire animation lasts from 22 to 32 frames depending on the character. Even with a frame perfect spotdodge MK has time to throw in another uair or an aerial of his choosing before you can move again.
Hmm, someone hasnt heard of b reversal to escape MKs range, he lacks drift speed so he cant follow chars with high drift speed, especially if you suddenly change momentum with that b reversal.
"S Class"
Yoshi - 4.04
Jigglypuff - 3.87
Wario - 3.71
Wolf - 3.63
Captain Falcon - 3.63
"A Class"
Sonic - 3.36
Donkey Kong - 3.36
Lucas - 3.30
Bowser - 3.30
Squirtle - 3.27
Mr. Game & Watch - 3.24
Marth - 3.24
"B Class"
Zero Suit Samus - 3.13
Charizard - 3.07
Zelda - 3.02
Samus - 2.97
Lucario - 2.95
Ness - 2.92
Mario - 2.92
"C Class"
Snake - 2.88
Toon Link - 2.83
Ike - 2.83
Pikachu - 2.74
Peach - 2.74
R.O.B. - 2.70
Pit - 2.70
Fox - 2.70
Falco - 2.70
"D Class"
Ganondorf - 2.62
Kirby - 2.59
Sheik - 2.57
Olimar - 2.55
Diddy Kong - 2.50
Link - 2.45
"F Class"
Meta Knight - 2.35
Ivysaur - 2.32
Ice Climbers - 2.32
Luigi - 2.29
King Dedede - 2.10
Drift speed list.
-Allows for ridiculous combinations of the aerial along with others within a short period of time (such as a short hop).
Wait, so you can do many in 1 short hop? Ok, and thats bannable?
-At low percents it has ridiculous hitstun and can combo most characters to around 50 percent; and is virtually unDIable for some reason and the MK can chase DI quite easily from it.
Er, someone hasnt heard of QCDI it seems, you can get out of his combos. He cant chase the DI very well, look at his drift speed.
-Has enough shieldstun that if MK is repeatedly u-airing someone who is on a platform, they cannot let their shield up. Their only options are to spotdodge or roll, which are both easily punishable by a good MK.
Or jump? Or keep shielding till he falls? Dont be ridiculous
-Hits in nearly a full semi-circle above MK’s head, the far ends hitting out more horizontally. The edges have more horizontal range than the first two hits of MK’s bair.
It lacks ranges upward though :S
Neutral Aerial
-Is a kill move, and it comes out in only 3 frames.
Only first hit kills, must be in close range enough so that transcendant priority is virtually useless.
-Has multiple hitboxes, allowing it to combo with the weak hit, or hit both hitboxes for around 20 damage.
18% to be exact, dont try to make this sound like snakes ftilts, it has no range. You can hit him before he hits you with this.
-Can do two in a single short hop.
The second barely comes out, i can say the same about lucarios dair. Broken?
-Weak hit can combo into a grounded lock combo.
Sometimes it trips, thats what your mostly talking about. Dtilt cannot lock a tripping attack. Either way, when it does send you in a low arc, you A) Can tech, B) Airdodge before hitting the ground most of the time C) Can QCDI the lock either way
Down Aerial
-Because of transcendent priority combined with MK’s 5 mid-air jumps makes this the best aircamping move in the game.
OMG, transcendent. I thought we already went over this, its nothing better in this area than marths dair for example. So hes got the best aircamping move in the game.... Guess what, you can use projectiles on him by being at his level at mid range to shoot him stuff without him being able to adequately punish you.
-The edges on both the front and back of the hit have semi-spike properties.
-Can be used offstage with MK’s multiple jumps to perfectly edgeguard a large portion of the cast.
Back Aerial
-Multi-hit move that can be easily autocancelled out of a short hop.
-Because of hitstun added into the first and second hits so that the third and final hit will deal its knockback, this move can be landed into the ground and easily combed into an ftilt, dtilt, or grab.
Because of hitlag, you could QCDI out of this and the following tilts. Not only this, but if it hits you with final move, it has very low hitstun on it, you can act before he attacks you. The mistake most people do is get hit by 2nd hit then press A, which does an aerial startup, which due to your closeness to the ground makes you land into lag. Human fault, not broken move.
-If autocancelled correctly (not that difficult), an opponent has a shield advantage of only 3 frames. MK’s spotdodge invincibility frames activate on frame 2, giving the opponent 5 frames to hit/grab before the invincibility starts.
Or punishing after? If he always spotdodge, i wait after then hit. Grabs take 6 frames to activate, and because of bairs massive range not many up b out of shields can retaliate against it.
Upsmashes? If you need to drop your shield before hitting MK (drop shield dash grab, etc.), he actually has a 4 frame ADVANTAGE. This means that he can roll away (his roll invincibility activates on frame 4) before you can even finish dropping your shield.
Forward Aerial
-Very fast if SH FF autocancelled.
-The tip of the third hit of the blade is a semi-spike, allowing for edgeguarding with a multi-hit move.
For something to be called semi spike, it needs to send in at least a horizontal trajectory, this is slightly upwards. Stop bending the meaning of words.
-Transcendent priority combined with its fast multi-hit properties allow it to be used defensively to cut through most, if not all approaches.
I wonder why nobody knows by now that fair is one of his worst attacks to use agaisnt run shield. Why do you think noone uses this vs ics? Same can be done with every char, leaves him very vulnerable
-If autocancelled correctly, the opponent has an 8 frame shield advantage, and a 1 frame shield drop advantage. Insert the numbers into the bair statistics above.
So its even more punishable, wow.
3. Ground Game
Down Tilt
-Comes out in 3 frames (1/20th of a second)
-Can be quickly repeated for combos or extra damage (lasts only 15 frames)
-Has a high probability to trip an opponent, comboing in almost any other move.
-Transcendent priority, combined with its long range and the fact that it inches MK forward, makes this his longest ranged move (excluding the third hit of ftilt)
Ok, how does transcendent priority makes this his longest ranged move. And excluding? Making comparisons betweens MKs move doesnt make him any better
-Can ground lock
Can be EASILY QCDI-ed
Forward Tilt
-Great range, multi-hit, transcendent priority (the third hit has the same range as Marth’s tipper fsmash)
Cannot be comboed from too.
-Not much to say about this move, but it’s a great ground move that can be used for spacing and building damage very well.
-Can ground lock
Quarter, circle, Directionnal, influence. Seriously.
-from the MK boards: “What happens here is that the attack pops the character up a bit, and when they land they have 4 frames of landing lag. The advantage mk has here is dependent on how long they are in the air... which is determined by their current percent, weight, and fall speed. This is really a project in and of itself, but from what I looked at the first hit of his ftilt can actually yield a + advantage when your oppenent is in mid-high percent.
I was under the impression that it was a set knockback.
/goes check.
Isnt, either way telegraphed comboes like these are subject to SDI. And thats IF it exists, dont bring out possibilities, bring out concrete.
Up Tilt
-Surprisingly strong kill move (Snake’s utilt kills MK on a battlefield platform at 98 with no DI, MK’s utilt kills MK on a battlefield platform at 107 with no DI)
WOW, way to distort reality there. Way to distort it badly. You are assuming both characters are from under the platform, but everyone knows the tip of snakes uptilt is the weak part. It actually kills at 82. You wanted to give the impression it was close to the killing power of snakes uptilt on the ground, be specific. Stop twisting words to your ends. Strawmanning=bad.
-Has massive vertical range, covers direct aerial approaches well.
Has a massive lack of horizontal range, learn to attock from diagonal?
Jab
-Can build up damage and combo well against a wall.
Easiest to QCDI LOL
-Surprising range in front of and above MK
Learn your hitboxes?
-Can combo into a dsmash depending on DI/percent fairly consistently
Or by anyone who knows QCDI can be easily punished, especially with snakes ftilt.
-Can ground lock (switch up with dtilt and ftilt)
Tons of multi-hit with no damage? Free QCDI out, learn that stuff and stop whining.
Forward Smash
-Some startup time, almost no ending lag
Still very punishable.
-Has an unnaturally large hitbox above, in front of, and even behind MK.
Learn your hitboxes, easy to counter with many moves once you know its range.
-Nearly unpunishable if used defensively, can be used to edgeguard well.
weird, i was under the impression i could jump above or just stand up. Oh wait, you can.
Down Smash
-Notoriously fast and powerful move (5 frames, high knockback)
Decently high knockback.
-Downside is that it is easily punishable out of shield by most high tiers.
-Hits on both sides, if opponent is DIing badly both hits can combo.
Human mistake does not make stuff good.
Up Smash
-Definetely not the greatest move in the world.
-Medium knockback, can be used to pop the opponent up out of a run for combos.
You cant combo after this, no hitstun.
Dash Attack
-One of MK’s few moves that actually clashes with other moves.
-MK speeds up on the ground while using it and it comes out in only 5 frames.
Can be shieldgrabbed easily.
-Can literally combo into grabs and other moves at lower percents.
Can literally be jumped out of?
4. Specials
Down Special
-Infinite Dimensional Cape: I think everyone knows what this one is. While you think you may have banned it, it is easy to perform without anyone noticing and make a huge difference on the game.
Any abusive use of it is still banned, if your wanting to risk getting dqed, go ahead.
-A little known fact is that you can tilt the cstick VERY slightly during IDC and it will still affect MK as much as a tapped cstick.
Point being?
-When MK touches the ground, he gains a small distance on his DC, so a single tap (giving him about a character and a half of extra distance) could easily get him out of a bad situation without anyone noticing.
So its better than we expected.
-Can be used to escape off the ledge onto the stage. Using small amounts of IDC helps a lot here.
-Invincible and invisible while recovering
-Can be used to refresh ledge invincibility faster than his aerial jump.
Someone forgot to mention that being a move which has an indefinite duration(aka varying), if you get hit during anytime, including startup, you get more knockback. Risk/reward is preserved.
Side Special
-Incredibly high priority, eats up many moves.
-Has ridiculous vertical and horizontal range, better than most 3 jump character’s up b’s.
-Can edgecancel from its max length to any distance in between by tilting it up or down. This creates a quick, lagless recovery onto platforms.
-Can edgecancel backwards on ledges or platforms, giving more options for non-ledge-snap recoveries.
-If you hit someone halfway through the move you can carry them to the end of it to combo out of it.
Or they can learn to DI, I know, its a new concept 
-If MK times it right, it can outlast opponent’s invincibility frames on the ledge so that he will always recover.
So can alot of actual recoveries >.>
Neutral Special (ah, the famous tornado)
-High priority, absorbs a high percentage of attacks and projectiles and even goes through some of the cast’s entire moveset.
Hmm, you already stated that, and pivot grab from any char can beat it. And you also get more knockback if it gets hit during it.
-Does a lot of damage, and can rack it up quickly.
Can be DI-ed and punish with down airs with some characters.
-Because of its high priority, and its ability to move quickly horizontally, it can be used on many characters more than once in a row to build extra damage.
DI out of it, punish. Pivot grab it to stop it or punish the lag when hes aiming at you on the ground.
-You can pressure shields with it and move away safely.
And you can safely spotdodge halfway through it to save some shield and end just in time to punish.
-Gains priority the more you press the b button
Has a set maximum priority, and can only block a limited amount of hits ina small amount of time. Attacks with forced transcendant priority like ice climbers blizzard still go through.
-If you end it at the right time, it has 29 frames of lag regardless of height. If you stop the nado at the right height you can land with 0 to very few lag frames on the ground.
Your forgetting the falling frames, which is in itself lag as you cant do anything during them.
-Goes through spotdodges, rolls, airdodges, because of its long lasting, giant hitbox and its ability to chase aerial movement.
Er, shield followed by spotdodge, and many chars can back roll through it without getting hit. Back roll cannot be used out of shield though.
-Doubles as an incredible horizontal recovery (with a decent vertical one as well).
And a great way of getting punished with attacks that goes through and get you more knockback.
Up Special
- Is a different move on the ground or in the air
So are some other moves, isnt broken. Still shares same stale list move.
-Comes out in 5 frames and is invincible frames 5-8, allowing it to avoid grabs if buffered at the same time as an opponent (say a ground release out of a grab)
A) You should not get grab released to regrab, you got faster options. Dtilt, so does most other characters actually.
-If timed right can cut through any approach in the game.
Wow, i dont remember any MK using up b over and over and winning non stop. Punish the glide's lack of options.
-Has almost no lag and is almost impossible to punish.
Punish after the glide, perfect shield is grab attack or something.
-If you cancel it the right distance above the ground you can jump out of his failed cancel animation (no lag from jumping off the ground).
He still has falling time you can punish FFS stop making it sound like he doesnt.
-Aerially comes out very fast (frame 8) and has a powerful hitbox. If you are below or in front of MK at startup you will be semispiked forward, and if you are behind or above him you will be semispiked backwards. A plus to the backwards semispike is that MK can then simply glide back to the stage.
DI-ing up helps, its still a good move, just dont get near the death zones.
-Has numerous points to sweetspot the ledge making MK’s edgeguarding with this move ridiculous.
And spiking him during it with falco a bit easy if predicted :D
-Has crazy knockback at low percents.
It has more at highers >.>. Your basically saying it has a high base knockback, but fortunately the growth is low.
-Can still hit opponents for an entire semi circle in front of MK.
MK can get hit during any of these moments too.
-Puts MK into a second glide, allowing him to use multiple glides. Also sets him up higher in the air so that he can gain more momentum.
and reduces him to a low set of options
-You can land on the stage or a platform with the top of the shuttle loop to cancel it instantly. For some odd reason when you do this if you buffer another shuttle loop out of it, you get a another aerial shuttle loop, able to semispike nearby opponents.
Your right, its weird.
6. Other Moves
Glide/Glide Attack
-MK has the second fastest glide in the game but the best control on where he goes.
-He can cancel the glide and fastfall it to have no lag from high glide points.
He still has falling lag >.>
-He can gain massive positive height on his glide as long as he has space to glide a little lower.
-If he has no space to glide lower the glide adds to his airspeed and allows him to move quickly horizontally in the air.
Thats the definition of a glide. Guess what, so does every char with a glide. Ban?
-His glide attack actually clashes with other moves.
And can be nullified with moves that cannot clash or can be PS-ed to punish.
-Because of shuttle loop MK has two glides.
-His glide attack pops the opponent up with a lot of hitstun. It is very good for comboing at low percents and can lead into repeated uair combos on the entire cast.
Learn, to, DI. Learn to punish glide attack with PS seriously. And the entire cast is a false statement too. Weight/falling speeds change the trajectory especially with DI.
-If he misses a cancel he has enough momentum that he will slide off platforms and ledges.
-If he doesn’t cancel and doesn’t ledge cancel, he lands in a self tech-chase position, like how Ness and Lucas can pk thunder themselves into the ground. This allows him for self created invincibility options not involving the ledge.
Whut??? I didnt quite get that, anyone willing to explain?
