Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[dextasmurf]

if pro's are really PRO"S that use to win with MK just main someone else and win ya money...sure it wont be as easy but hey it wasnt easy for us to beat u when u were Meta Knight....

 

[Johnny Pteran]

This thread almost made me laugh. The pro-ban side is SO much stronger than anti-ban. All anti-ban side is doing is denying the pro-ban arguments with weak reasons.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I voted pro-ban. Not simply because I "hate metaknight" because I don't, but he clearly is imbalanced.

If MK has approximately 1/5 of top 3 results, that means the rest of the 4/5ths is with THE OTHER 30+ CHARACTERS. That is a simply staggering figure. It might not seem bad, but hell, fox/sheik/marth/falco at least had to SHARE their top placings in melee, not have 22% each.

The point of Counterpicking in the anti-ban side was very faulty.

"In Smash 64, Pikachu was stated as being the best character having no counterpicks in regards to characters and stages. The game grew and flourished for many years."

Yeah, pikachu technically had no Counterpicks against him, but 6-7 other characters in a 12 character game had 0-deaths, JUST LIKE PIKACHU. In brawl, NO character has the ease of comboing, amazing recovery, high priority attacks, speed, damage racking, AND scarily fast kill moves ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The 2nd best character, snake, has SEVERAL glaring weaknesses. A major one being his off-stage game. Every time a snake is off the level, he will be getting hit at least one time by any good player, whether it be from a self-induced C4 explosion or people venturing out and hitting snake. Yes you can do the DJ-up-b which will get you a scarily good vertical boost, but then you come down as a helpless doll. You can just be grabbed and thrown back off, being put in the same disadvantageous position as before.

Also, still on the point of the counterpicking, if metaknight wins the first match of set, he will ALWAYS win the set if the players are on the same skill and the MK doens't mess up. Bans are supposed to help players get rid of their truly bad stage for their character in specific Matchups, or in general (pikachu's banning brinstar, IC banning RC) but with MK, you have SEVERAL bad stages that you need to ban, while only having one ban available. Yeah, winning the first match is SUPPOSED to give the player who won the advantage, but not an impassable wall that everybody else can't get past unless they get lucky (ie pikachu getting a low % thunder kill when frigate orpheon flips). Also, Metaknight has no bad level. He has some non-good levels, but they are still playable by every single standard. If he has a great recovery, great combo potential, great momentum cancelling, great maneuvarability and a great low% kill arsenal (d-smash, F-smash, nair, and aerial up-b can all kill below 150% in most situations) make NO stages bad for him. Sure, against some characters there may be one disadvantageous stage, but it is only a slight disadvantage anyway.

Also, the fact that MK has no bad matchups severely takes away from the Counterpicking process. Most players play 2 characters. A main, and a weakness killer. I know, as a pikachu player, that Donkey Kong basically covers every option and no matchup will be worse than 55:45 in my opponents favor. However, MK has no bad matchups. Simply by maining MK have you rid yourself of the need to have a secondary. With no bad stages/bad matchups, counterpicking is basically useless against him. Why change character when you are even/have the advantage against your opponent? Why change character when you are good on any level they can take you to? The answer is there is no reason, which is a BIG reason that Metaknight should be banned.

 

[Falconv1.0]

This thread almost made me laugh. The pro-ban side is SO much stronger than anti-ban. All anti-ban side is doing is denying the pro-ban arguments with weak reasons.

How do you still have an account?

Hey kids, guess what?

GENESIS

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

i voted not to ban him.

Thanks for sharing that valuable piece of information with us, Bob.

 

[Kamikaze*]

I only voted yes because I would like to see some metagame diversity. I don't think he's overcentralizing, but he is limiting the variety of development in the metagame. Lately, it seems that the only characters that are growing are the B+ tier characters, while everyone else is being ignored from how unviable they are. While it's slightly illogical to think that no MK = a growth spurt to the other character's metagames, I do think some people will go back to people like Peach who just get destroyed by the garden variety MK. Also, MK is the go to character if you're having a problem with a matchup like DDD. The way I see it, people who side MK just for MUs will have to l2skill better and thus increase the threshold of skill.


I don't really care if you disagree and I probably won't respond if you do, so don't bother flaming me if I'm wrong.

I see what you mean, but it is also up to the player to decide whether they want to main or second MK. Player decisions also hurt the diversity of the game.

 

[Rudementry]

I voted pro-ban not because I think meta breaks the game, but because I feel like meta will slowly break the dwindling competitive community that brawl has.

This guy is cool, he makes teh music GUI. Listen to him.

 

[ANTi_]

That was just a joke..

 

[stingers]

It can be easily escaped, sadly.

oh

lol brawl

 

[brinboy789]

i thought apex and genesis already made MK off the ban hook? -________-

 

[Rudementry]

I see what you mean, but it is also up to the player to decide whether they want to main or second MK. Player decisions also hurt the diversity of the game.

Take it away as a choice, and we wouldn't have to worry about that.

 

[quik2288]

yea sorry guys from da one and only 2Qu!k i dont really care if he is banned or not..ima sonic/zss main and idk i just dont care if he is or isnt so im not gun vote

 

[Falconv1.0]

i thought apex and genesis already made MK off the ban hook? -________-

Major tourneys where almost all the pros attended mattering compared to tourneys with like 5 pros and 40 noobs?


NAAAAAWWW

 

[xDD-Master]

I want a ban. Just because I want all this discussions, johns and whiners to have an end -_-

MK here, MK there, it annoys me alot <,<

Maybe you think this isnt a good reason, well OK, agreeable, but I hate all those MK-johns etc. <<

Btw. Pro-ban really had better arguments

 

[:mad:]

i thought apex and genesis already made MK off the ban hook? -________-

He's not going to be banned.

Don't cry about it.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

What people seem to be forgetting is - nothing the SBR says is set in stone. Nobody is even going to abide by this **** anyways LOL. I know most of the EC won't.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

i thought apex and genesis already made MK off the ban hook? -________-

Clearly not. People are stubborn asses

This poll is pointless since we get practically no say.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Thanks for sharing that valuable piece of information with us, Bob.

Your welcome.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I was neutral in this debate, but I feel that Metaknight is only the symptom of this "Virus".
I feel that the virus is the game itself as it puts Meta in this context.

 

[dextasmurf]

He's not going to be banned.

Don't cry about it.

what am i going to be doing in the future MS.CLEO!!??!!

 

[Falconv1.0]

I want a ban. Just because I want all this discussions, johns and whiners to have an end -_-

MK here, MK there, it annoys me alot <,<

Maybe you think this isnt a good reason, well OK, agreeable, but I hate all those MK-johns etc. <<

Because obviously once he's banned people wont debate to unban him. Yeah, we're all a bunch of lazy quitters.

Wow character johns AND personal insults? Happy day!

 

[dextasmurf]

Clearly not. People are stubborn asses

This poll is pointless since we get practically no say.

THis poll materz 10% :/

 

[BetaZealot]

Well, if this is the FINAL FINAL FINAL discussion about this. I'm pro-ban. Falco vs mk+planking (dojo stuff etc.) is outrageous. If we had more time to see how the metagame plays out, I might change my mind.

 

[Thirtyfour]

I want to MM plank with Falcon

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

What people seem to be forgetting is - nothing the SBR says is set in stone. Nobody is even going to abide by this **** anyways LOL. I know most of the EC won't.

Yeah, SBR saying "Meta is banned blah blah blah" really doesn't force TO's to do anything. It's basically just a soft ban. That no one will follow.

 

[SuSa]

That was just a joke..

I'm pretty sure Fence just posted it as a joke...

Also how the hell does that John. Pt whatever pterodactyl guy still have an account here?

 

[Nazo-Kaze]

Yes, say bye bye to MetaKnight

 

[Falconv1.0]

Well, if this is the FINAL FINAL FINAL discussion about this. I'm pro-ban. Falco vs mk+planking (dojo stuff etc.) is outrageous. If we had more time to see how the metagame plays out, I might change my mind.

Because as we all know, if you can beat Falco by playing gay, you should be banned.

 

[AtotheZ]

How do you still have an account?

Hey kids, guess what?

GENESIS

APEX!

Wait, no....

EVO 2009

Yeah, guess what happened there?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

THis poll materz 10% :/

Well it's proportionately added to each side. This poll will most likely end up somewhere around 60%-40%, so that adds 6% to one side and 4% to the other. Whoo hoo, 6/4%

I want to MM plank with Falcon

You'll lose.

 

[WaterTails]

This thread almost made me laugh. The pro-ban side is SO much stronger than anti-ban. All anti-ban side is doing is denying the pro-ban arguments with weak reasons.

Isn't that the point of a debate? If the negatives can refute the positives' points, shouldn't that mean they're right? It shows that the affirmatives plan, in this case, banning MK, isn't really necessary, and the status quo is fine.

APEX!

Wait, no....

EVO 2009

Yeah, guess what happened there?

Wait, what? Didn't M2K, arguably the best MK player, lose to Ally in all of those?

 

[Kamikaze*]

I'm noticing that all the people posting for the first time are saying yes. With nothing but"yah ban him lololololo"

I smell hella alt accounts.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

LOL. I'll read this again before I make my vote. Can you believe I stayed neutral throughout this entire year?

 

[BetaZealot]

Because as we all know, if you can beat Falco by playing gay, you should be banned.

But you see, a gay snake is nothing like a gay mk.

I can see where you are going, but you gotta understand the difference.

 

[Falconv1.0]

APEX!

Wait, no....

EVO 2009

Yeah, guess what happened there?

Is that some kind of joke?

 

[Sosuke]

I'm noticing that all the people posting for the first time are saying yes. With nothing but"yah ban him lololololo"

I smell hella alt accounts.

People get banned for that.

 

[hunger!]

Yes, say bye bye to MetaKnight

lol. this is the like the 10th July 2009 1 Post account ive seen. All pro-ban. people are making new accounts just to vote on a poll that really doesnt have any say.

 

[Praxis]

I like it when people ignore the pro ban facts and list single matches instead

Dude, Genesis results were SUPER Pro-ban favor.

The entire EC argument was that EC doesn't have MK problems because they have an advanced anti-MK metagame while WC doesn't so only WC has MK problems.

ADHD, Lain, Atomsk, and all of the other EC "MK slayers" lost to Metaknights. MK took three of the top four spots, and the next highest placing MK, Judge, who got 9th, lost to TWO OF THE OTHER METAKNIGHTS.


Better yet, every Metaknight that was taken out of the tournament except DSF was taken out by ANOTHER METAKNIGHT.

Metaknight's literally only lost to other MK's and Ally.

And it doesn't prove Snake as a MK counter, either, since the next highest placing Snake (Razer) got 9th and lost to a MK that was #8 on SoCal PR (Havok). Ally's just a beast.

 

[SuSa]

Because as we all know, if you can beat Falco by playing gay, you should be banned.

Snake just needs to crouch.

Just crouch.

And strike Yoshi's Island as your first neutral to strike, then Lylat if it's a neutral.

Because lasers will hit you there if you crouch.

Wallah. Now it's "who gets bored first to approach" because neither is stalling, just avoiding conflict.

In 90% of my matches, I've had more patience then the Falco. Or the Falco will space to try to IAP > grab me or something equally as stupid.

Sorry to say, that **** doesn't really work unless I ****ed up my timing on something

 

[P. O. F.]

Pro ban has such a better argument on this then the anti... the anti is failing atm, sry to say but it's true.

That and pro-ban's argument in the OP was better.

Metaknight is everyone's secondary lmao

pro ban side's argument presented here is much stronger IMO

You all are smart.