Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Ills]

You know, maybe if this game actually has the players to actually trying to ban a specific character because it's so good in comparison to the rest of the game, maybe you shouldn't actually play it in the first place and play something else.








Like melee.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

You all are smart.

Says the voice of god, amirite?

 

[Famous]

i thought apex and genesis already made MK off the ban hook? -________-

You do realize that one person doesn't make a difference...This is hard for me to say.

Though ally beat M2k, Mk in general dominated top 10 placings

 

[IcyLight]

a lot of All is Brawlers would make an account just to vote on this. don't immediately expect alt accounts to vote

 

[Falconv1.0]

Praxis you're making me lol hard.

 

[Praxis]

Rude don't be silly.

M2K didn't sandbag.

M2K didn't sandbag, but he wasn't playing well. He fell asleep, woke up, drank a monster, and played like crud. He ***** Ally in winners finals at Genesis before drinking the Monster, and ***** Ally again at Evo.

Ally and M2K are on another level from any other smasher.

APEX!

Wait, no....

EVO 2009

Yeah, guess what happened there?

Evo wasn't seeded, randoms placed in the top 10 (Skinny, a random MK from SoCal, got 9th). Look at the actual matches that took place. Tyrant STILL only lost to Ally and M2K. He just fought them earlier in the bracket than he should have. And M2K won.

 

[P. O. F.]

It really boils down to this:

The pro ban side arguement was STRONGER. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing about writing and presentation.

It was also longer and looks like he put much more thought into it as well. Without a doubt.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I've seen like 56 1 post acounts so far. Who could it be! You! Or maybe you! Or is it me! *commits suiside*

 

[Falconv1.0]

And as we all know MK players actually suck and will win all the time even in 55/45 match ups, because they have the power of Christ on their side.

 

[Kamikaze*]

a lot of All is Brawlers would make an account just to vote on this. don't immediately expect alt accounts to vote

Lol, that's plausible as well. This poll is so ****ed up. We should just remove it and listen to the arguments posted instead.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

It really boils down to this:

The pro ban side arguement was STRONGER. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing about writing and presentation.

Again, says the voice of god, amirite?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

OH noezzzz I can't wait to see what the public has to say.

I DONT, it'll be a mess of arguments that just flush around in a vicious circle

 

[Rudementry]

a lot of All is Brawlers would make an account just to vote on this. don't immediately expect alt accounts to vote

That doesn't make it any better. This is SBR rules, not freakin I like to play casual games rules.

 

[MarKO X]

Brawl metaknight = Super Turbo Akuma.

It's obvious to me now.

Doesn't matter if most people aren't using metaknight at his full potential.
In other words, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't air planking, putting in one or two taps of the cstick to extend the downB, or not getting gimped with him. It's just like it doesn't matter that everyone doesn't use Akuma's air fireball right, teleports away from danger right, or can't juggle with the hurricane kick to the dragon punch.

Fact of the matter is, at the highest level of Metaknight, he can't be beaten by anything other than another metaknight.

As a result, he should be banned.

 

[DotHack]

You know, maybe if this game actually has the players to actually trying to ban a specific character because it's so good in comparison to the rest of the game, maybe you shouldn't actually play it in the first place and play something else.








Like melee.

Smart man. Would be even smarter if you had said BlazBlue. >_>

 

[SuSa]

And as we all know MK players actually suck and will win all the time even in 55/45 match ups, because they have the power of Christ on their side.

If MK gets banned, I'm quoting this with:

"Christ. He blesses Meta Knight"

I hope you know that.

 

[AtotheZ]

Wait, what? Didn't M2K, arguably the best MK player, lose to Ally in all of those?

M2K beat ally at evo. in fact, mikeHAZE beat ally too.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Gee I wish we could all be as smart as POF.

Also, I wish we'd stop calling pro ban so super awesome so actual fighting game communities with more dominant characters would stop laughing at us.


Edit-Nice to know mods will misquote me. Scuse me while I scale Mount Givea****.

 

[Kamikaze*]

It really boils down to this:

The pro ban side arguement was STRONGER. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing about writing and presentation.

Yeah, because that totally means that someone else can't come up with stringer argument for anti-ban. That's what this thread is for.

 

[Sosuke]

I honestly don't see this poll making a dent in the SBR's decision unless it's ~65-70%+ on either side.

And I don't see that happening.



Btw, I don't mean this as the 10% thing, i mean this like, mentality of the members-wise.

 

[stingers]

this shit is fucking stupid

why doesn't everyone just quote this

 

[Master Raven]

whatever side wins it's gonna end in civil war

 

[Inui]

I understand that we, the non-SBR community are more biased and maybe don't look at all the facts (as a whole), but really, only 10%? We make up probably like 99% of the SWF community, but we only make up 10% of the vote?

Seems kind of pointless for us to have a poll if we only make up 10%

Just my .02.

The elites of this world make the decisions. Look at almost every nation. Congressman and other leaders make the decisions. Nothing is different here. I'm surprised this even counts for 10%. If it were my call, only the SBR would have any say. The top players and top hosts should be making the call.

Granted, there are many talented and brilliant people (ShadowLink84, NEO, ADHD, etc.) that aren't back there, but exposing the poll to the public like this...allows a flood of the not-so-smart to pour in and poison the results.

 

[OverLade]

If you didn't read the opposing arguement (to what you believe) on the front page then you arent doing this thread much justice....

 

[Falconv1.0]

Inui stop trying to argue with logic and calmness, it's gay.

 

[MetaMasterMoe]

The truth is we all know how the MK poll is gonna end because sadly there are less decent players than lazy noobs.

 

[SnowballBob33]

Lmao this is so funny. SBR thinks they are the government, and can force people to use rules. No matter what, its up to the TO to place bans or not. If we ban MK and TO says hes not banned whats going to happen?

Also, whats up with these people talking about they are quitting if MK gets banned. You say "cry some more" about banning but in the end you quit the game.

But I have a solution to this madness. If anyone knows anything about baseball, there are 2 parts, AL and NL. AL has pitchers hit and NL has Designated hitters. Depending on whos home is the way the rules work. You know how you get stage bans, and stuff. You should be able to change that with a MK ban. If MK doesn't make a difference in what you do, then play regular. If he does, ban MK but give up stage bans. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

[BetaZealot]

The elites of this world make the decisions. Look at almost every nation. Congressman and other leaders make the decisions. Nothing is different here. I'm surprised this even counts for 10%. If it were my call, only the SBR would have any say. The top players and top hosts should be making the call.

Granted, there are many talented and brilliant people (ShadowLink84, NEO, ADHD, etc.) that aren't back there, but exposing the poll to the public like this...allows a flood of the not-so-smart to pour in and poison the results.

I enjoyed Apex and the venue there. Just letting you know.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Pro-ban, ask me these questions:

Why now is a ban necessary? You've been using the same argument for a year, and the MK "problem" has only gotten better, yet people are still fussing on about how MK will only get worse, and he's dominating tournament results, etc.

Let's look at something.

MKs tournament results will continue to dominate!

This has been said since November, and since November, his overall tournament results have declined. While he still is in the lead for best results, they aren't nearly as bad as half a year ago. Look at the two most recent, most competitive, largest Brawl tournaments; Apex and Genesis. A lot of people said, "Let's wait for Apex!" It happened. One out of the top eight was a pure MK main I believe, with two or three others using him as a secondary in some matches. Ally, a Snake main, won Apex. Most people said, "Let's wait for Genesis!" 3 out of the top 8 were pure MK mains, no one else using him. Ally, a Snake, won Genesis.

These results have a decent decline from other large tournaments such as hobo11 and CoT4 in the past, yet people are saying that MK's tournament results will only grow. They've shrunk. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his tournament placings will get better.

MK has no even or disadvantageous match-ups!

First of all, what exactly is an even match-up? If you're really on-paper-picky, then even match-ups don't exist except for ditto matches (but even then, port priority). But realistically, an even match-up is just a match-up where it's very close, and the more skilled player will generally win. And the top players are pretty close in skill.

To say that MK has no even or close enough to even match-ups is hard, given the evidence. Ally, a Snake main, has gone back and forth with M2K, an MK main, as well as beating other top MKs. Lain, an Ice Climbers main, beat Dojo and M2K, both MK mains, at Apex. ADHD, a Diddy main, has beaten Dojo in an MM at Apex and come very close to beating both M2K and Tyrant in previous sets.

If MK had a clear advantage on every one of his match-ups, why would things like this be happening?

If you want to argue the match-up specifics of why I think that he has even MUs like Snake, ICs. and Diddy, then go ahead and challenge me, because I don't feel like writing out long match-up summaries. I will say this though; Diddy Kong especially has only improved in this match-up since it's been explored, and he has a lot of known technical room to grow, such as single banana locking and working out the kinks of mid-ranged zoning, room to grow in the match-up that MK doesn't have. These match-ups are looking worse for MK as time goes on.

Planking/aircamping is MKs answer to every match-up! When MK mains realize this and start doing this, he'll be unstoppable, and we have to ban him!

First: Snake and Diddy Kong.

Second: Planking and aircamping have been known for ages, The infamous Plank vs. SK92 match where Plank...well...planked and played very campy was a match from September of last year. It's late July now. Everybody knows about the match, everybody knows about planking and air-camping, INCLUDING MK mains. If they wanted to have planked every match to net a win by now, they'd do it.

But not only do many people choose not to play like that because it's boring and not fun for them (M2K being a good example of this), many don't do it much even if they could because they aren't horribly broken. A good chunk of the cast has a very safe answer to planking, and EVERYONE can get past planking and air-camping by simply approaching. Is it safe? Not always. Do we know the specifics of what each character can do against planking and air-camping? No. So should people stop saying, "LOL IT'S BROKED BAN EET" and actually try to find out how good or bad it is before they say it's bannable? Yes.

If we keep MK in competitive Brawl, the meta-game will deteriorate, Brawl will become MK vs. MK, and the competitive scene will die.

People have been saying that since November.

It's late July now.

Hey, guess what, competitive Brawl still exists! And look, all of the signs, such as his match-ups and tournament placings, show that his lead on the cast that he once held is now, in fact, slipping! There's no evidence to suggest that the meta-game will deteriorate, especially since people have been saying that for over half a year and the situations only gotten better!

There is no logical reason to ban MK at this point. While the scare back in November or whatever was understandable, the situation's gotten better, and pro-ban is using the exact same argument. If competitive Brawl would have died, it would have happened by now. There is no evidence to suggest that MK will have some broken new tech, or MK will dominate results in the future. Even if there was, you don't ban things pre-emptively because you theory-craft that they MIGHT be bad. You ban them when they're a problem.

Meta Knight is not a problem, and Meta Knight will not be a problem.

Meta Knight should not be banned.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Brawl metaknight = Super Turbo Akuma.

It's obvious to me now.

Doesn't matter if most people aren't using metaknight at his full potential.
In other words, it doesn't matter if everyone isn't air planking, putting in one or two taps of the cstick to extend the downB, or not getting gimped with him. It's just like it doesn't matter that everyone doesn't use Akuma's air fireball right, teleports away from danger right, or can't juggle with the hurricane kick to the dragon punch.

Fact of the matter is, at the highest level of Metaknight, he can't be beaten by anything other than another metaknight.

As a result, he should be banned.

Hell no MKs not THAT broke. I effing play ST. Akuma can literaly hit you 4 times and your will die. And he has a zoning game of a shoto.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Lmao this is so funny. SBR thinks they are the government, and can force people to use rules.

You're a funny guy. But seriously, no.


>_<

 

[AtotheZ]

this shit is fucking stupid

why doesn't everyone just quote this

will do

 

[fkacyan]

If you didn't read the opposing arguement (to what you believe) on the front page then you arent doing this thread much justice....

As long as a random scrub can't pick Meta and win tourneys / cause major upsets, he's not bannable. I.E. bannable characters should be Akumas.

I want somebody to find that Florida MK-banned tourney where the people who placed were the same as with the regular tourneys they held; it's a great example of how banning MK doesn't do anything to the overall state of Smash.

 

[P. O. F.]

Yeah, because that totally means that someone else can't come up with stringer argument for anti-ban. That's what this thread is for.

I'm pretty sure both people knew that before composing their statements that the community would highly weigh their vote on the points that they brought up.

I'm sure everyone here read every post visible before casting their vote?

The first post is a first post for a reason: It contains essential information in order to cast a valid vote. Effective and thoroughly organized arguments were made to be presented to us as a community so we could all make a responsible and mature decision.

I do not expect anyone to read anything below the first post in order to make a decision nor should they.

 

[WaterTails]

It really boils down to this:

The pro ban side arguement was STRONGER. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing about writing and presentation.

RAWR! BIG, COLORFUL TEXT MAKES ME LOOK LIKE I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!
Also, isn't whether or not the argument was stronger subjective?

It was also longer and looks like he put much more thought into it as well. Without a doubt.

Also, verbose-itude totally makes something better, as does LOOKING LIKE more work was put in.

 

[Ills]

Smart man. Would be even smarter if you had said BlazBlue. >_>

Been playing as Taokaka and been gettin' violently murdered. I'm not too good. ):

 

[kirbywizard]

The elites of this world make the decisions. Look at almost every nation. Congressman and other leaders make the decisions. Nothing is different here. I'm surprised this even counts for 10%. If it were my call, only the SBR would have any say. The top players and top hosts should be making the call.

Granted, there are many talented and brilliant people (ShadowLink84, NEO, ADHD, etc.) that aren't back there, but exposing the poll to the public like this...allows a flood of the not-so-smart to pour in and poison the results.

This happens in each poll.


All I hope is that the majority of the people that vote read the whole OP.

 

[SuSa]

The elites of this world make the decisions. Look at almost every nation. Congressman and other leaders make the decisions. Nothing is different here. I'm surprised this even counts for 10%. If it were my call, only the SBR would have any say. The top players and top hosts should be making the call.

Granted, there are many talented and brilliant people (ShadowLink84, NEO, ADHD, etc.) that aren't back there, but exposing the poll to the public like this...allows a flood of the not-so-smart to pour in and poison the results.

Debunked in one word:
Democracy

 

[IcyLight]

Pro-ban, ask me these questions:

Why now is a ban necessary? You've been using the same argument for a year, and the MK "problem" has only gotten better, yet people are still fussing on about how MK will only get worse, and he's dominating tournament results, etc.

Let's look at something.



This has been said since November, and since November, his overall tournament results have declined. While he still is in the lead for best results, they aren't nearly as bad as half a year ago. Look at the two most recent, most competitive, largest Brawl tournaments; Apex and Genesis. A lot of people said, "Let's wait for Apex!" It happened. One out of the top eight was a pure MK main I believe, with two or three others using him as a secondary in some matches. Ally, a Snake main, won Apex. Most people said, "Let's wait for Genesis!" 3 out of the top 8 were pure MK mains, no one else using him. Ally, a Snake, won Genesis.

These results have a decent decline from other large tournaments such as hobo11 and CoT4 in the past, yet people are saying that MK's tournament results will only grow. They've shrunk. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his tournament placings will get better.



First of all, what exactly is an even match-up? If you're really on-paper-picky, then even match-ups don't exist except for ditto matches (but even then, port priority). But realistically, an even match-up is just a match-up where it's very close, and the more skilled player will generally win. And the top players are pretty close in skill.

To say that MK has no even or close enough to even match-ups is hard, given the evidence. Ally, a Snake main, has gone back and forth with M2K, an MK main, as well as beating other top MKs. Lain, an Ice Climbers main, beat Dojo and M2K, both MK mains, at Apex. ADHD, a Diddy main, has beaten Dojo in an MM at Apex and come very close to beating both M2K and Tyrant in previous sets.

If MK had a clear advantage on every one of his match-ups, why would things like this be happening?

If you want to argue the match-up specifics of why I think that he has even MUs like Snake, ICs. and Diddy, then go ahead and challenge me, because I don't feel like writing out long match-up summaries. I will say this though; Diddy Kong especially has only improved in this match-up since it's been explored, and he has a lot of known technical room to grow, such as single banana locking and working out the kinks of mid-ranged zoning, room to grow in the match-up that MK doesn't have. These match-ups are looking worse for MK as time goes on.



First: Snake and Diddy Kong.

Second: Planking and aircamping have been known for ages, The infamous Plank vs. SK92 match where Plank...well...planked and played very campy was a match from September of last year. It's late July now. Everybody knows about the match, everybody knows about planking and air-camping, INCLUDING MK mains. If they wanted to have planked every match to net a win by now, they'd do it.

But not only do many people choose not to play like that because it's boring and not fun for them (M2K being a good example of this), many don't do it much even if they could because they aren't horribly broken. A good chunk of the cast has a very safe answer to planking, and EVERYONE can get past planking and air-camping by simply approaching. Is it safe? Not always. Do we know the specifics of what each character can do against planking and air-camping? No. So should people stop saying, "LOL IT'S BROKED BAN EET" and actually try to find out how good or bad it is before they say it's bannable? Yes.



People have been saying that since November.

It's late July now.

Hey, guess what, competitive Brawl still exists! And look, all of the signs, such as his match-ups and tournament placings, show that his lead on the cast that he once held is now, in fact, slipping! There's no evidence to suggest that the meta-game will deteriorate, especially since people have been saying that for over half a year and the situations only gotten better!

There is no logical reason to ban MK at this point. While the scare back in November or whatever was understandable, the situation's gotten better, and pro-ban is using the exact same argument. If competitive Brawl would have died, it would have happened by now. There is no evidence to suggest that MK will have some broken new tech, or MK will dominate results in the future. Even if there was, you don't ban things pre-emptively because you theory-craft that they MIGHT be bad. You ban them when they're a problem.

Meta Knight is not a problem, and Meta Knight will not be a problem.

Meta Knight should not be banned.

tl;dr i thought we said logic and calmness was uncool

 

[CPU1]

Rob can **** mk! dont ban him!!!