Forget banning metaknight, ledge camping = omgwtfbbqhax

[Teh Future]

For the illiterate people, this topics has nothing to do with metaknight.

Ledge camping. Seriously. wtf. Worst tactic ever. This pretty much goes completely against something I like to call "fun". Everyone involved in the smash community is, or should be here for this. Ledge camping is completely stupid and it gives some characters like ROB and samus (There are others, but these two are the ones I play against all the time) a ridiculous advantage that allows them to rack up damage with almost no risk against most other characters. It's stupid to the point that people will win matches that they would normally not if it weren't for them ledgecamping, something that takes absolutely no skill because it takes away any defensive options you would have to take if someone approached you on the stage. Basically, ledgecamping should be considered stalling and should definitely be limited imo. It gives multiple characters stupid advantages and allows players to win that otherwise would not have*coughoverswarmcough*.

I know that no one knows who I am and you may think my opinion sucks, but there have been other people including m2k in other topics that have talked about how stupid ledge camping is.

also the OS comment was a joke, his playing style has changed a little bit and he doesn't ledgecamp nearly as much.

thoughts?

 

[Miller]

Your a scrub
10scrubbio's

Its easily beatable so don't complain.
Also, Do what works

 

[1048576]

What can I do against a ROB who just spends all day on the ledge charging his gyro and laser? Adopt the same tactic?

 

[Miller]

What can I do against a ROB who just spends all day on the ledge charging his gyro and laser? Adopt the same tactic?

Alot actually. One being just grab the ledge yourself if you can, he's forced back on the stage and then you can chase him.

 

[Teh Future]

Ummm no. That works with certain characters but a lot are simply too slow to successfully approach on the edge.

I know it doesn't work against all characters but against some it is extremely limiting and cheap.

 

[Grunt]

It's a form of stalling, no?

 

[Miller]

Quoted from greatness "Cheap is just a scrub term for efficiency"

 

[CO18]

Its not easily punishable thats why m2k has posted on every regional board to ban ledge stalling, its stupid and definitley isnt easily punishable besides like a few characters. Alot of people just won matches doing this at a tourney I went to yesterday then the other person would just pick mk and ledge camp back its very stupid.

There should be no time limits to prevent this.

 

[Affinity]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199674

What CO18 mentioned.

 

[Teh Future]

Quoted from greatness "Cheap is just a scrub term for efficiency"

Your so dumb you just admitted that it's effective and you practically called everyone involved in the smash community including m2k a scrub considering everyone calls something cheap at one time or another.

fail less please.

If you're going to try to say it shouldn't be banned how about you give reasons as to why rather than just say "lol bkscrub geT ThrR33 St0cK3d"

 

[XienZo]

Well, I guess if you can argue that the metagame would degrade due to ledge camping, then you might have a point.

Otherwise, its just something you have to deal with.

 

[Teh Future]

It is degrading that's the point. It's not fun at all and it gives the player doing it a stupid advantage that is almost impossible to punish with certain characters. It is considered stalling I guess, but it's used waay too much so I think SBR should specifically outline how to deal with it.

edit: also I don't really like the no time limits thing, I mean the guy can still rack up damage doing it and then come back on the stage to kill you rather than run out the clock. That is the bigger problem I think, and happens much more often. I like M2k's rule that you have to be back on the stage in 10 seconds, or at least above it.

 

[XienZo]

Well, to prove its degrading, you have to prove that players are abusing it and winning with it so easily that Brawl could potentially become just one huge ledgecamping game.

In other words, go into details and scenarios.

 

[choknater]

see my sig

 

[popsofctown]

future wrestler... anything that doesn't negatively affect every character seems not to get banned here. D3's infinites and Marth's infinite are still permitted. So is yoshi's infinite on wario, no?

 

[ftl]

There are plenty of characters who can get around ledgecamping. There are ways to fight it even for some characters that don't have an intuitive way of getting around it. Despite the ledgecamping, ROB isn't in metaknight tier, and Samus is low-tier even with the ledgecamping.

Heck, any character with a projectile that's not a Laz0r can deal with it. Characters who are comfortable off the stage can just take the fight there and go for a stage-spike.

I read that thread by M2K. Honestly, it just feels like M2K and Overswarm fighting it out over the MK ban. OS wants to ban MK, so M2K tries to ban a powerful MK tactic that ROB can also use.

(Also, Plank has got to be happy, they've all but named MK ledgecamping after him now. Quite impressive.)

 

[choknater]

ice climbers' blizzard hits ledge campers

 

[kupo15]

ledge camp back, report to us his reaction and tell us how much fun both of you are having with intensely ledge camping each other at the same time!!!
Srsly thatll make his stop. He will know that ledge camping will make you ledge camp and it wont be fun for him anymore since it wont work. I had a friend act similarly with something else and I played cheaply back and he stopped

 

[Teh Future]

Ledgecamping affects more than just the maybe 4 characters DDD can chainthrow. Marth doesn't have an infinite on Ness or Lucas, and I'm not familiar with Yoshi's. the only thing that might be as cheap would be Dedede's chainthrows but those are extremely difficult to preform. Ledgecamping affects a large part of the cast (almost everyone without falling projectiles) and is extremely easy to do.

 

[Sosuke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXFWpLtXtwE

I used to think like this.
Then I sucked it up and learned to play smart.

 

[Teh Future]

ledge camp back, report to us his reaction and tell us how much fun both of you are having with intensely ledge camping each other at the same time!!!
Srsly thatll make his stop. He will know that ledge camping will make you ledge camp and it wont be fun for him anymore since it wont work. I had a friend act similarly with something else and I played cheaply back and he stopped

That doesn't work at all if you're playing a character who sucks at ledgecamping.

Are there ways to get around it? Of course. But these are extremely limited and that doesn't make it fair or the matches fun.

 

[choknater]

the only thing that might be as cheap would be Dedede's chainthrows but those are extremely difficult to preform. .

lol naruhodo~

 

[XienZo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXFWpLtXtwE

I used to think like this.
Then I sucked it up and learned to play smart.

Wow, and it was against a TL...

 

[kupo15]

That doesn't work at all if you're playing a character who sucks at ledgecamping.

Are there ways to get around it? Of course. But these are extremely limited and that doesn't make it fair or the matches fun.

im confused. How can ledge camping someone who is ledge camping not work? How are you at risk when both are ledge camping at the same time across the map?

 

[XienZo]

im confused. How can ledge camping someone who is ledge camping not work? How are you at risk when both are ledge camping at the same time across the map?

He's good enough to win tourneys with it. You've picked it up to annoy him. Who wins?

 

[kupo15]

No, I think your misunderstanding me or I am misunderstanding you. If he is on the right of FD ledge camping with like projectiles or whatever, how will you lose if you go to the left of FD and ledge camp to avoid the projectiles?
Your both doing it at the same which means no one should win or lose since his projectiles cant hit you.

 

[bludhoundz]

Yeah, but your opponent will only start ledgecamping once they have the percentage advantage.

They win when the timer runs out.

You are forced to approach. If you don't, you're going to lose.

 

[Sosuke]

If they're stalling: Pick Zelda, fall of the ledge, and use Bair.

Well any character really.
Learn to control the ledge.

 

[kupo15]

Yeah, but your opponent will only start ledgecamping once they have the percentage advantage.

They win when the timer runs out.

You are forced to approach. If you don't, you're going to lose.

OHHHH!! Thats what you mean. I was think about in friendlies without a timer. Oh nvm, i have no help to offer then...sry

 

[GotWater]

Ledgecamping affects more than just the maybe 4 characters DDD can chainthrow. Marth doesn't have an infinite on Ness or Lucas, and I'm not familiar with Yoshi's. the only thing that might be as cheap would be Dedede's chainthrows but those are extremely difficult to preform. Ledgecamping affects a large part of the cast (almost everyone without falling projectiles) and is extremely easy to do.

DDD can chainthrow about half the cast

marth DOES have an infinite on Ness and Lucas

DDD's chainthrow is easy as hell.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Your a scrub
10scrubbio's

Its easily beatable so don't complain.
Also, Do what works

thats kind of funny because m2k wants this banned to. I really don't care though

 

[RAQU]

ha ha, what an idiot. if youre mad about ledge "camping" stop sucking and stay on the stage. problem solved.

 

[__V]

MK's is the only stall that can't be punished. If you approach the ledge, you get Shuttle Looped in the face. If you use projectiles, they can switch to using the cape.

All other "stalls" can be punished, including Sonic's under-the-stage stall.

 

[Chis]

ha ha, what an idiot. if youre mad about ledge "camping" stop sucking and stay on the stage. problem solved.

Yeah, but your opponent will only start ledgecamping once they have the percentage advantage.

They win when the timer runs out.

You are forced to approach. If you don't, you're going to lose.

More well thought out posts please.

 

[Mmac]

They don't have impossible to dodge projectiles anyways. Just get close and you'll pressure him. Use Counter Spam, Use Reflectors, Shield, Dodge, Whatever. Just get close. He can't use projectiles anymore or else he'll get heavily punished. All you need to do now is Shield whatever aerial he uses and Punish that, or Attack him with a Dtilt or Aerial. No More Ledge Camping!

Any character can get around it, nor is it cheap. All you need to do is learn how to dodge Projectiles and it will be rendered useless.

 

[Mmac]

MK's is the only stall that can't be punished. If you approach the ledge, you get Shuttle Looped in the face. If you use projectiles, they can switch to using the cape.

Anyone with a Splash Projectile can prevent Ledge Cape Stalling

Edit: Crap, Double Post -_ -

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I agree with the TC. Ledge camping should be banned. It's cheating because you abuse the time rule: There must be a time limit within the tournament rules to prevent it from taking too long. Ledge camping abuses this rule in an un-competitive way. You don't even have to defeat your opponent or be a good player to win. All you have to do is hit your opponents once and then camp the ledge until the time runs out. There are very few opponents, who can do something effective against it (Iceys, Pikachu, ...) so the majority of the characters have an unfair disadvantage, that can't be overcomed by player skill. How else could have Plank won entire tournament settings just like that?

 

[•Col•]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXFWpLtXtwE

I used to think like this.
Then I sucked it up and learned to play smart.

Wait.... Was that ENTIRE video considered ledge camping?

Like at 4:14.... Wouldn't that be edgeguarding? Because I do stuff like that all the time with Marth... o_o Whenever I hit someone far off the stage, I like to ledgedrop a bair, then Dolphin Slash back up.....

So yeah... Is that edgeguarding/edgehogging considered ledge camping?

 

[Sosuke]

Same idea man.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Do you guys even know what ledge camping is?

Basically it means that you hang on the edge and attack with a projectile or a well ranged move. You just jump -> attack -> hang on the ledge again. The invinvibility frames of the ledge grab prevent you from getting attacked and so does the attack in between. ROB and MK are particularily good at this