Forget banning metaknight, ledge camping = omgwtfbbqhax

[JackieRabbit5]

Stalling is wasting time for the sake of running out the match.

Ledgecamping is going to a particular place on the stage and wanting the fight to take place there, where you have an advantage.

There's a giant, giant difference.

ok so basically, its even worse than stalling b/c u gain a positional advantage and can be used to run out time...seriously maybe stalling needs to be redefined to include ledge-camping. U gotta admit its a pretty lame tactic even if there are a few counters...

I guess it could be comparable to standing underneath a platform to discourage over approach and shooting projectiles or whatever to prevent side approach *cougholimar* b/c its the same kinda positional advantage and it wouldn't make sense to ban that (even if it is annoying heh).
But like i said ledgecamping may not be a form of stalling, but can be used likewise. Thats the difference i think...

btw just wondering what if u have 2 defensive players who refuse to make the first move in attacking each other (or one's ledge camping and the other refuses to play their game). Whats that like double stalling? XD

 

[Plairnkk]

edgecamping has been around since melee. sheiks did it, marths did it, jiggs did it, idk why its all of the sudden a new thing. I won multiple sets in melee by up+b stalling with sheik. sure it was gay, but nobody ever even talked about banning it. its just the surplus of brawl scrubs coming into the game who dont understand competitive play. Its not unbeatable, its just strong and most people have yet to learn how to get around it.

 

[Steeler]

how do you get around a meta knight ledge camping, with a uair/shuttle loop/tornado/some other bull waiting when you approach?

 

[otg]

Forget Banning Metaknight, Brawl = the suckzors

 

[WastingPenguins]

edgecamping has been around since melee. sheiks did it, marths did it, jiggs did it, idk why its all of the sudden a new thing. I won multiple sets in melee by up+b stalling with sheik. sure it was gay, but nobody ever even talked about banning it. its just the surplus of brawl scrubs coming into the game who dont understand competitive play. Its not unbeatable, its just strong and most people have yet to learn how to get around it.

Yep and both games had those auto-sweetspot magnet edges that make this tactic both stupidly effective and insanely hard to punish.

Wait...

 

[DRaGZ]

^ that's some heavy flow.





*thinks of the number of times he's seen characters approach the ledge camper and get shuttle looped to the other side of the level*

..some advantage..

That's more of an incentive to ban Meta Knight than anything else.

You guys are going through the same phase that people went through when they realized camping worked really well (and I went through that phase as well).

People find ways around it, effective ways. Aside from Meta Knight, there is no character that gains an unbreakable advantage by ledgecamping, only certain characters really gain an advantage by ledgecamping, and many cahracters have effective tools for stopping ledgecamping.

And none of you even know what the definition of stalling means in a Smash context. Stalling is so that you put yourself in a position where it is impossible for the opponent to even get a shot at you. Going back and forth under a stage is a form of stalling, Meta Knight's infinite cape glitch is staliing. Ledgecamping is not stalling because there are a ****load of things you can do to fight it.

Stop acting like a bunch of scrubs, it's embarassing.

 

[choknater]

Yep and both games had those auto-sweetspot magnet edges that make this tactic both stupidly effective and insanely hard to punish.

Wait...

don't be dumb.

sheik's up-B stall was still easy to ledge stall with, AND it had INFINITE invincibility while brawl metaknight's ledge stall does not.

in both games, the ledge can be edgehogged between ledge hops.

very risky against metaknight but it can be done.

anyway, brawl ledge stalling is not total invincibility, it's just hard to get around. it gets hit by ic's blizz, too good!

 

[Dav657]

Its stalling. And stalling isnt allowed.

 

[DRaGZ]

I'm going to quote myself.

And none of you even know what the definition of stalling means in a Smash context. Stalling is so that you put yourself in a position where it is impossible for the opponent to even get a shot at you. Going back and forth under a stage is a form of stalling, Meta Knight's infinite cape glitch is staliing. Ledgecamping is not stalling because there are a ****load of things you can do to fight it.

Stop acting like a bunch of scrubs, it's embarassing.

 

[misterbee180]

Your rediculious? Get better at the game and stop complaining about legitiment forms of offence.

 

[XienZo]

The thing about it is that there's still a fine line. You do have a TINY chance of hitting someone as they travel back and forth across the bottom of the stage, and while ledge stalling has less invincibility, you have more mobility and can attack to keep them away, whereas its pretty risky to attack as you're going under the stage.

infinite cape is obviously stalling. But technically, you have a chance of hitting them once the c-stick snaps off.

Its just that ledge camping trades off a little invincibilty for more ability to defend yourself once the opponent actually does reach you, so its hard to tell what ratio of ability-to-escape-indefinitely vs vulnerability-if-they-somehow-get-you is bannable.

 

[DRaGZ]

Okay, let me make it a lot clearer then.

The infinite cape glitch makes it so that the opponent can technically never be hit. Ever.

The going under the stage tactic requires a lot of characters to put themselves in a position where they would probably have to kill themselves to even get a hit on the guy.

Ledgecamping, there are a lot of safe, effective options for dealing with it.

 

[Teh Future]

Its just that ledge camping trades off a little invincibilty for more ability to defend yourself once the opponent actually does reach you, so its hard to tell what ratio of ability-to-escape-indefinitely vs vulnerability-if-they-somehow-get-you is bannable.

At this point I don't think this should even be part of it, ledge camping as a whole is just so ******** and goes completely against something everyone likes to call "fun". it's stupid and goes against the spirit of the game. If SBR doesn't do anything about it, then the players should and just shun anyone who uses it.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

so maybe its not quite stalling but its close

kinda funny i was just playing an MK online earlier who did this, did manage to stagespike him a couple times

well this is probably just one of those things that ppl should have enough respect to not overuse...can't be enforced but players should acknowledge its stupidity. yah i don't see a ban coming

 

[_Phloat_]

At this point I don't think this should even be part of it, ledge camping as a whole is just so ******** and goes completely against something everyone likes to call "fun". it's stupid and goes against the spirit of the game. If SBR doesn't do anything about it, then the players should and just shun anyone who uses it.

That won't stop it. If I believed it needed to be stopped, this would not be my argument.


What the developers intended has nothing to do with how we play. We never once asked the devs how to play 64, or melee, and we won't for brawl.


Shunning someone for using a tactic to win is just plain scrub.

 

[DRaGZ]

Your definition of "fun" is highly subjective.

I like ledgecamping, and I truly do not mind when people ledgecamp me.

You know why? Because I know how to deal with it.

 

[goldemblem]

Ledgecamping it's a really easy to use tactic and hard to punish.

But i believed that stalling was banned by the SBR official rules, am i wrong?

 

[Espy Rose]

Your definition of "fun" is highly subjective.

I like ledgecamping, and I truly do not mind when people ledgecamp me.

You know why? Because I know how to deal with it.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

 

[XienZo]

Well than, can you post how every character can deal with ledge campers?

Spoiler

LOL, I'm not here for the argument, I want to see how to deal with ledge-campers

 

[DRaGZ]

I can tell you how R.O.B. and Ganondorf deals with edgecampers because those are my two mains and I know them best.

R.O.B...you basically either do anything you want off-stage or you can use a down-tilted/ledge-hanging gyro to do the job. Both projectile solutions can be done relatively close enough so that you can capitalize on a hit. Also, d-air works on characters that ledgecamp terribly, if as nothing else but a scare tactic, and d-tilt generally works well.

Ganondorf, ffed or double-jumped d-air, b-air/u-air off-stage, d-tilt, f-tilt if they jump a bit higher than they should, all are very solid and attractive options.

Seriously, it's such an easy thing to deal with.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I tried doing that with Ganon the other night, MK's Shuttle Loop and Nair came out far too fast for anything to work effectively. Plus if things got a little too dangerous he just glided to the other edge.

 

[DRaGZ]

Well, that's Meta Knight.

Like I said before, that's just more evidence to ban Meta Knight. The fact that his Shuttle Loop has super armor frames makes it so that he has at least one uncounterable option at that area.

 

[XienZo]

Well, that's Meta Knight.

Like I said before, that's just more evidence to ban Meta Knight. The fact that his Shuttle Loop has super armor frames makes it so that he has at least one uncounterable option at that area.

But how do you know people talking about MK won't go, "Well, that's just ledge-camping."

Like, what if banning ledge-camping helped balance MK?

 

[DRaGZ]

It won't. MK is broken for far other reasons.

And there are methods for some characters for dealing with MK on the ledge outside of approaching him directly using certain projectiles.

It's when he get on land or directly off-stage where he gets ridiculous.

 

[Crow!]

Seems to me that if you ban MK, then this problem doesn't even exist.

 

[XienZo]

Seems to me that if you ban MK, then this problem doesn't even exist.

ROB exists...

 

[DRaGZ]

R.O.B. doesn't do spectacular as an ledgecamper.

The only character he truly shines against while ledgecamping is Falco, and then lots of characters do because Falco sucks against ledgecamping.

Just try ledgecamping as R.O.B. while fighting Pit, DeDeDe, Snake, etc. You'll get ****ed in the ***.

 

[XienZo]

I suppose so. Who are some other good ledge-campers?

 

[DRaGZ]

I honestly don't know. I haven't really seen any ledgecampers other than R.O.B. and Meta Knight do it truly effectively.

I do it sometimes with Ganondorf with either his u-air or murder choke, but only to bait my opponent, and even then it's a very risky position for me to be in with very little reward and the murder choke bait will basically never work on a decent player.

 

[Wave⁂]

Your a scrub
10scrubbio's

Its easily beatable so don't complain.
Also, Do what works

Fuuck honor, play to win.

 

[XienZo]

Well, there was the wario one that was posted by sasukebowser but that was just on one opponent so I don't know how that turns out.

 

[Deoxys]

R.O.B. doesn't do spectacular as an ledgecamper.

The only character he truly shines against while ledgecamping is Falco, and then lots of characters do because Falco sucks against ledgecamping.

I mean, falco can run off the edge and Bair and then hop back... it just puts him below the stage....

 

[RednaXale]

That only seems to be an issue for me in 4 player matches. One person will never die because they ***** up the ledge and camp there. If it's a team battle it isn't so bad, since you have someone to help you, but in a FFA it is just brutal. I can't play FFA because of this.

However, it is not a problem in 1v1.

 

[DRaGZ]

I mean, falco can run off the edge and Bair and then hop back... it just puts him below the stage....

That's not as simple as it seems. And if Falco does that against R.O.B., he basically just killed himself (d-air spike, stage spike, b-air him to under the stage, b-air him away from the stage, all easily doable depending on where the Falco is)

 

[Imp]

Brawl sure did bring an influx of cry babies to the smash scene. Tears all over these boards now.

 

[wangston]

Look at that M2k says don't ban Meta Knight, but he says ban ledge stalling/camping. He is right about one of these I hate ledge camping, it's the gayest thing you can do in smash, and one that does this has no balls or integrity and they lose my respect as a smasher.

 

[MysticKenji]

I suppose so. Who are some other good ledge-campers?

Other than MK, Pit and MAYBE DDD/Jiggs.

 

[_Phloat_]

Look at that M2k says don't ban Meta Knight, but he says ban ledge stalling/camping. He is right about one of these I hate ledge camping, it's the gayest thing you can do in smash, and one that does this has no balls or integrity and they lose my respect as a smasher.

Winning > Your Respect.

 

[DRaGZ]

Look at that M2k says don't ban Meta Knight, but he says ban ledge stalling/camping. He is right about one of these I hate ledge camping, it's the gayest thing you can do in smash, and one that does this has no balls or integrity and they lose my respect as a smasher.

Winning > Your Respect.

You summed what I was about to say in a much better way.

Awesoooome.

 

[Espy Rose]

Look at that M2k says don't ban Meta Knight, but he says ban ledge stalling/camping. He is right about one of these I hate ledge camping, it's the gayest thing you can do in smash, and one that does this has no balls or integrity and they lose my respect as a smasher.

The gayest thing you could probably do in Brawl is play MK...