Forget banning metaknight, ledge camping = omgwtfbbqhax

[Turbo Ether]

This game is terrible if this needs to be governed. Smashers constantly having to ban stuff to keep the game playable, is why Smash is considered a joke amongst fighting game communities.

 

[•Col•]

Same idea man.

Do you guys even know what ledge camping is?

Basically it means that you hang on the edge and attack with a projectile or a well ranged move. You just jump -> attack -> hang on the ledge again. The invinvibility frames of the ledge grab prevent you from getting attacked and so does the attack in between. ROB and MK are particularily good at this

I'm getting mixed signals. D:

 

[fkacyan]

Do you guys even know what ledge camping is?

Basically it means that you hang on the edge and attack with a projectile or a well ranged move. You just jump -> attack -> hang on the ledge again. The invinvibility frames of the ledge grab prevent you from getting attacked and so does the attack in between. ROB and MK are particularily good at this

It's far, far easier to punish rob for this than MK.

It's like they're in different leagues.

 

[•Col•]

Same idea man.

And then, wouldn't any ledgedropped move be considered ledgecamping? @_@

Spoiler

Gyahh... I though I understood what ledgecamping was until I saw some parts of that video.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Look at the las 1 or 1,5 minutes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8

That's ledgecamping

 

[Steeler]

yeah dude, ledge camping is just really gay and RUINS the game. how can you defend something that ruins an already poor competitive game?

 

[SonicX580]

For the illiterate people, this topics has nothing to do with metaknight.

Ledge camping. Seriously. wtf. Worst tactic ever. This pretty much goes completely against something I like to call "fun". Everyone involved in the smash community is, or should be here for this. Ledge camping is completely stupid and it gives some characters like ROB and samus (There are others, but these two are the ones I play against all the time) a ridiculous advantage that allows them to rack up damage with almost no risk against most other characters. It's stupid to the point that people will win matches that they would normally not if it weren't for them ledgecamping, something that takes absolutely no skill because it takes away any defensive options you would have to take if someone approached you on the stage. Basically, ledgecamping should be considered stalling and should definitely be limited imo. It gives multiple characters stupid advantages and allows players to win that otherwise would not have*coughoverswarmcough*.

I know that no one knows who I am and you may think my opinion sucks, but there have been other people including m2k in other topics that have talked about how stupid ledge camping is.

also the OS comment was a joke, his playing style has changed a little bit and he doesn't ledgecamp nearly as much.

thoughts?

I do agree with you on some points but why don't you come up with a plan to counter Ledge Camping?

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Someone once made a thread saying the one of the best ways to stop being a noob was to forget all notions of honor in smash. No Johns, if you figure out how to beat ledgecamping then you will have more fun.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's just wrong. Ledgecamping completely negates any players skill difference

 

[Natch]

That's just wrong. Ledgecamping completely negates any players skill difference

If you're johning about Ledge Camping, pick a character who can counter it. All you need is a projectile/reflector/absorb-er/etc. Obviously, not all projectiles do the trick, but a lot of characters have the options to deal with Ledge Camping.

-Snake
-Falco
-ROB
-Pikachu
-Ice Climbers
-Pit
-Wolf
-Toon Link
-Fox
-Zelda
-Lucas
-Ness
-Samus
-Link

All of these characters have projectiles that can deal with the ledge, reflectors of some kind, or both. That's 14 out of 39 characters(Zelds counts as two, Samus counts as two, PT counts as 3. That's 4 additional characters characters, so 39 in all. 37 if you think PT should count as one, but that just raises the percentage) That's over 33% of the characters in this game.

And other characters have abilities to stop ledge camping as well, but these seem to be the best. I simply listed them by order of tiers, so Snake is not neccessarily the best anti-ledge camper, and Link the worst.

If you're afraid of ledge camping, get a character who can deal with it. It's easily counterable, so there's much less reason to ban it than there is to ban...MK for instance. Besides, ledge camping only works for a few characters. Most characters don't excel at it, so it's not as if everyone can ledge camp for an auto win or something.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How do you absorb MKs fair? Once he has the lead you have to attack, not to avoid getting attacked

 

[Mmac]

Natch, you forgot Yoshi, Diddy, and Mario

 

[J4pu]

Ummm no. That works with certain characters but a lot are simply too slow to successfully approach on the edge.

I know it doesn't work against all characters but against some it is extremely limiting and cheap.

So it's a counterpick strategy?
OMG picking G@W gives a large advantage against Falco, BAN HIM NAO!!!11!!1

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's not a counterpicking strategy.

Everybody should watch the video I posted, especially the last minute. It's just ridicoulus

 

[Zhamy]

Ledgecamping sucks.

Why would you waste time trying to find a "counter" for something this gay?

 

[DRaGZ]

Ledgecamping is a high-risk/high-reward situation. There are only a few characters that have nothing they can do against this (Falco comes to mind), and many many many characters just need to get close to force the ledgecamper to put themselves in a bad situation or jump up to approach, in which the other guy will actually be in the advantage because they forced the approach.

And it's also only a few characters that really benefit from good ledgecamping. A lot of characters only really put themselves at a disadvantage.

Banning ledgecamping would be like banning turtling in any fighting game. Should the 3S folks ban Q just because he's the best **** turtler in the game? Oooooh scariness.

Hell, even Ganondorf has a lot of options against a ledgecamper. The third lowest tiered character in the game can handle ledgecampers, and you're telling me we should ban this? Roflcopter 2000.

 

[Chaos Swordsman]

What kind of stupid idiot would do that anyway?

I got three words for them:Totally.Freaking.Pathetic.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Here is the best answer:

To prevent ledge camping pick stages that prevent it, like Mute City, Mario CIrcuit, The Summit, Rumble Falls, Bridge of Eldin and some others and allow it in tournaments, otherwise you will always have trouble fighting ledge campers and MK. This is why I say there is no such thing as neutral stages, every stage is a counter pick stage from one character to the other.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Ledge Camping is the new Projectile Spamming, taken to the level of HD from SD.

If you didn't get that, then basically it's a worse version of spamming lasers,arrows, etc.

 

[Throwback]

I play samus vs mario a lot and mario regularly stage-spikes me or kills me some other way when I ledge-camp. He's at the point where ledge-camping is a risky proposition - sure I can get some damage, but I can lose a stock in 1 hit as well.

Obviously we are not at the top level, but neither is the OP.

 

[Guilhe]

It's not a counterpicking strategy.

Everybody should watch the video I posted, especially the last minute. It's just ridicoulus

Saw the video. Wow. That's one professional gaymer.

 

[Judge Judy]

The FLUDD practically breaks this strategy...

 

[DRaGZ]

Look at the las 1 or 1,5 minutes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8

That's ledgecamping

That's Falco. One of Falco's main weaknesses is that ledgecamping works like a charm against him. Try ledgecamping against a Game and Watch, a Marth, a DeDeDe, a R.O.B., etc, and see what happens. You'll likely just put yourself at a disadvantage.

 

[AlAxe]

Ledgecamping is okay to an extent.
If the match is just being stalled because of ledgecamping whoever it is camping on the ledge should be forced back onto the stage. I've seen videos of MKs, Marths, Samus, and ROB just hanging on the edge for minutes at a time with no progress being made at all in the match. That is when it should be considered stalling.

 

[DRaGZ]

The main issue should be "How do you define ledgecamping?"

And even if you manage to define it (which none of you will agree on), another roadblock question will be "What will prevent people from just being on the verge of 'ledgecamping' and then do it again?" Do we need judges with stopwatches and counters watching matches?

The argument for banning it is utterly ridiculous, especially when considering that many characters have a myriad of effective options to either attack or force an approach against a ledgecamping character.

 

[Luigi player]

Your main is Lucas... you could try PKTing to the ledge and hit them with the tail or the ball. They might even risk a stagespike.

There are ways that beat this...


And I think that Video Gheb posted was the one where MK camped SK92, right?
SK92 should've known that Falcos fsmash hits people who are on the edge, but he never tried that >_>

 

[Staco]

there are rly a lot things against ledge campers
mk: dair
snake: nikita
ddd: dunno, jumping down + bair?
falco: fsmash
rob: taking the gyro + throw it down
diddy: bananas down the ledge
kirby: dair
and so on

and you can ledge camp at the other side of the stage xD

 

[Natch]

How do you absorb MKs fair? Once he has the lead you have to attack, not to avoid getting attacked

I'm saying if like, ROB is camping or something. You can absorb the laser.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not everyone can. And if they can he just uses fair ;(

Tell me: If it's so easy to break, how can Plank win tournaments like that?

 

[ftl]

Because Plank is good. Plank could probably win tournaments with a number of different styles, that's just the one he finds best for him.

That style is NOT dominating tournaments, not in the slightest, though it dominates occasional matchups, with some players.

 

[Fino]

Look at the las 1 or 1,5 minutes:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8

That's ledgecamping

I was going to post this....
but shame on sk92 for running into the tornado EVERY FREAKING TIME


~Fino

 

[CR4SH]

Wait a second, if they're just sitting there on the edge, dropping and grabbing, just stay on the stage. If they keep at it, it's stalling. Wheres the debate? What plank was doing is stalling if you just chill out on the stage, you don't have to go attack him.

Why are we considering banning "ledgecamping" when stalling is already against the rules. Doing something to intentionally avoid conflict and not attempting to fight your opponent, that's against the rules.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

yea ledgecamping is a form of stalling so its already banned if ur just staying there endlessly

sometimes as Yoshi i do a few egg throws from the edge and i think something like that should be ok, its when u take it as far as Plank did in that video that it isn't -.-

 

[ftl]

Wait a second, if they're just sitting there on the edge, dropping and grabbing, just stay on the stage. If they keep at it, it's stalling. Wheres the debate? What plank was doing is stalling if you just chill out on the stage, you don't have to go attack him.

He can chill out on the edge. You can chill out on the stage. You're both avoiding fighting each other. Neither one qualifies as stalling. You're both in attackable positions; against some characters, being on the stage is favorable, against others being on the edge is favorable.

Doing something to intentionally avoid conflict and not attempting to fight your opponent, that's against the rules.

You're not 'avoiding conflict'. You just want the conflict to take place in a particular part of the stage, namely, at the edge.

 

[Uffe]

I was going to post this....
but shame on sk92 for running into the tornado EVERY FREAKING TIME


~Fino

Possibly frustration. I know I'd get pissed everytime someone just used that one attack and camped on the edge. Plank didn't win because he was good. He only won because he could get more hits on his opponents than they could on him by edge camping.

 

[ftl]

yea ledgecamping is a form of stalling so its already banned if ur just staying there endlessly

Stalling is wasting time for the sake of running out the match.

Ledgecamping is going to a particular place on the stage and wanting the fight to take place there, where you have an advantage.

There's a giant, giant difference.

 

[chic]

People really brown nose m2k...

 

[Uffe]

People really brown nose m2k...

He also complained about edge camping.

 

[CR4SH]

He can chill out on the edge. You can chill out on the stage. You're both avoiding fighting each other. Neither one qualifies as stalling. You're both in attackable positions; against some characters, being on the stage is favorable, against others being on the edge is favorable.



You're not 'avoiding conflict'. You just want the conflict to take place in a particular part of the stage, namely, at the edge.

ummm. bull****.

When you're up 150% to 120 and you run to the edge and refuse to come onto the stage, you're stalling. .

If they want to come over and attack you, thats their prerogative, if not, come the **** back onto the stage. If you can attack them from that position, thats another matter entirely.

 

[err]

^ that's some heavy flow.

many characters just need to get close to force the ledgecamper to put themselves in a bad situation or jump up to approach, in which the other guy will actually be in the advantage because they forced the approach.

*thinks of the number of times he's seen characters approach the ledge camper and get shuttle looped to the other side of the level*

..some advantage..