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FL General Rules Discussion: Brawl

Sensei Seibrik

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Too few tourniments going on in FL do not hold any specific rules as far as brawl goes. Little gay stuff that needs to be decided before every tourny. NOT experimented with during, making for echy situations.

Things i'd like to discuss in this thread first and formost are peoples views on the following:

Last stock inhale/suicide kills (IE ddd's inhale last stock)-Who wins? Lower %? Total % added up at ending screen loses, inhaler autowins (CoT4 did this), rematch one stock? Needs to be decided, and remain constant throughout tournies.

DDD's infinite/Releasegrab chaingrabs on wario in place, and lucas,ness/marth cg. My opinion, ban all. The ddd one is easy, all are easy, simply require one dash animation in between each grab, otherwise it can be considered an infinite.


Worst of all: PLanking- I suggest Ledge grab count. but this needs to be decided on and once again, consistant. simply saying something is banned will not stop players from testing the limits of the rule in tourny. we need a consistant form of monitoring it, and punishing it.


So far, my suggested brawl specific ruleset is as follows:

The following rules could, and eventually should, be copy/pasted in the ruleset of each fl tourny thread before tourny date.


Suicide moves will be resolved by percentage in the result of a tie, and go to the suicider in the result of him not losing a stock, or to whomever the ending screen may show as winner.

Standing Chaingrabs and all step forward chaingrabs (ddd vs bowser, marth vs lucas) including release grab chaingrabs (zelda vs wario) are banned. One dash is required in between each grab in order for it to not be considered a Standing Chaingrab. Failure to adhear to this ruling will be subject to forfeit of match. Repeated failure can lead to auto dq. (This can be changed and managed from tourny to tourny, as far as punishment anyway)

Following vids should be included in ruleset so people have complete understanding of tactics.
Example of DDD STanding infinites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23UyrHXK36A&feature=PlayList&p=473F6EB944F5B5F7&playnext=1&index=38

This vid is old but if the grab is set to c-stick, the infinites are impossibly easy on all the infinite characters. And with the c-stick grab, the 5 grab limit is much easier as after 50% one grab attack is all that is required.


Planking and all forms of ledgecamping unless being preassured on the ledge (IE falco laser spamming, someone standing right near edge) are banned. If person is suspected of planking, simply call judge over to review match, and if it is a close decision, check ending screen, if the edge grabs was a number near or above 70, it is considered planking and results in forfeit of match.


Here are some examples of planking.
This one is with jigglypuff, a "how to" of planking. Keep in mind that this is simply jiggs and in no way as bad as someone like mk, gw, ddd and such.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBAQTAKtxxQ

Heres a prime example of how bad it can be with gw. Even tho its vs ike, its the same general outcome vs any character, including MK, its hard for mk to deal with this as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IzXR3W-f2I

As you can see, it is the worst kind of match to happen, and the worst thing we can have is a match between two plankers just begging for leads.



If there are any other important rules you feel i have missed, post it up, and i'll update this post to regard it.
 

Master Raven

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I agree with most of your rules, however I'm not exactly sure what you mean by grab release CGs. I'm all for those as long as they aren't infinites (ex: ZSS' grab release on MK).
 

risemix

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Dec 12, 2008
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Banning chain grabs is ridiculous and doesn't happen in most national, high-level tournaments. There are already standard rules about holy hand grenade/bunny matchups (ZSS vs MK is NOT one, but the way, the grab-release combo deals 10 damage across the entire stage and is pretty rough to get off; plus, ZSS still is not an MK counter, the matchup is 40:60). Just use standard tournament rules. We (Florida) don't need our own.
 

Tommy_G

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Banning chain grabs is ridiculous and doesn't happen in most national, high-level tournaments. There are already standard rules about holy hand grenade/bunny matchups (ZSS vs MK is NOT one, but the way, the grab-release combo deals 10 damage across the entire stage and is pretty rough to get off; plus, ZSS still is not an MK counter, the matchup is 40:60). Just use standard tournament rules. We (Florida) don't need our own.
We're not banning chaingrabs, we're banning standing infinites.

I think suicide moves should go to the user of the suicide move if the one using it is no more than 100% behind.(i.e. dedede kills mk's second stock and dedede is at 148% of his last stock, mk comes back and gets stuck in a suicide move, mk still wins, but if dedede was at like 98% then d3 wins; if a move super armored pulls dedede to more than 100%, then dedede would still lose. it would be measured by percentage at death.)

Standing CGS besides IC chain grab are banned. Because Falco's CG only goes up to 45%(5 grabs on d3) at worse case scenario, he is allowed to do his walking CG. Not trying to be biased, I can do the dashing one, but I hate tripping.

To put into perspective how many times 70 ledge grabs is. Out of a 7 min match=420 seconds. They would have to grab the ledge at least once every 6 seconds for the whole 7 minutes. Youre not going to accidentally get to 70 unless youre trying to plank. I approve of this rule.

Jungle Japes should be legalized.
 

Sensei Seibrik

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I believe we do, otherwise ur going to see some dumb stuff happening at tournies like this weekend comming unless they post up rules soon.

The zss chaingrab wouldnt be banned, but say zelda vs wario where she can stand in place or pivot grab or w.e. and basically not move and chaingrab him would be. I had already said all chaingrabs would have a 1 dash requirement for them to not be considered infininte grabbing.




Updated first post with some vids that should be watched.
 

Sensei Seibrik

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Tommy i disagree with ur suicide rule just because its going to be to hard to judge that. If its just two people playing it would be to easy to lie about the difference between %, or hard to remember like "i think i was at 98, or 100 im not sure" rather than "I was higher than u".
 

FlatSoda

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Last stock inhale/suicide kills (IE ddd's inhale last stock)-Who wins? Lower %? Total % added up at ending screen loses, inhaler autowins (CoT4 did this), rematch one stock? Needs to be decided, and remain constant throughout tournies.
I'd think the inhaler/grabber (diddy's hump and wario's bite.) should always win, just how I look at it. You can airdodge away from the hump/bite so it's escapable, not so sure on the inhale between kirby/D3. My reason for allowing the inhaler/grabber autowin is because the person would initiate the move.

DDD's infinite/Releasegrab chaingrabs on wario in place, and lucas,ness/marth cg. My opinion, ban all. The ddd one is easy, all are easy, simply require one dash animation in between each grab, otherwise it can be considered an infinite.
I agree. The whole dashing thing is even better because of the small step infinites.


Worst of all: PLanking- I suggest Ledge grab count. but this needs to be decided on and once again, consistant. simply saying something is banned will not stop players from testing the limits of the rule in tourny. we need a consistant form of monitoring it, and punishing it.
ledge grab count might be iffy, I'd suggest an actual judge monitoring the match, and then actually looking at edge grab counts to see if in any way it's possible to grab the edge that many times without planking. heh.

So far, my suggested brawl specific ruleset is as follows:
*snip*
I agree with your suggested rules, but my opinions are stated above.
 

HRNUT (Honey Roasted)

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i think suicides on the last stock should go to those player who has lower percentage regardless as far as inhale's go i think that unless the winner screen says that the suicider wins that the person with the least % should win.

Because i've seen gay stuff happen like siebrik being at over 100% and suiciding linguini at 0% and seibrik winning...also i've seen afro lose matches he should've won by this happening
 

Raistlin

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You can't ban ledge camping. I'm sorry, but that's really just dumb. Just because a tactic is hard to fight against, or even REALLY hard to fight against, that doesn't justify banning it. You can just grab the ledge in between the person's ledge grabs.

And suicides should always go to the initiator, regardless of what the game says. They're the one who actually managed to get the KO, the opponent shouldn't get the win because they made a mistake and LET themselves get suicided. Some arbitrary percent rule should not decide the winner when one person clearly lost.

EDIT: Also, standing chain grabs are gay and do merit banning. Chain grabs that require a pivot in them should not.
 

Toneh

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And suicides should always go to the initiator, regardless of what the game says. They're the one who actually managed to get the KO, the opponent shouldn't get the win because they made a mistake and LET themselves get suicided. Some arbitrary percent rule should not decide the winner when one person clearly lost.
yea i agree with that part. Dont let yourself get sucked in lol
 

CO18

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You can't ban ledge camping. I'm sorry, but that's really just dumb. Just because a tactic is hard to fight against, or even REALLY hard to fight against, that doesn't justify banning it. You can just grab the ledge in between the person's ledge grabs.

And suicides should always go to the initiator, regardless of what the game says. They're the one who actually managed to get the KO, the opponent shouldn't get the win because they made a mistake and LET themselves get suicided. Some arbitrary percent rule should not decide the winner when one person clearly lost.

EDIT: Also, standing chain grabs are gay and do merit banning. Chain grabs that require a pivot in them should not.
ledgecamping is already banned on the EC. The 70 ledge grab rule is just a better way of implementing it.
 

GDX

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I think any infinites (things on Ness/Lucas, D3 on whoever he can do it to) should be banned. Anything grab release related doesnt seem that bad

whoever initiates the suicide should win no matter what. I mean, you see D3 jumping off the stage and hes waaay behind you last stock. You know whats coming. If you get sucked in you pretty much deserve it. They have to come to you cause they are behind in % so you can just sit there and wait for them to get on stage and fight you cause if not time will expire and you'll win anyway

As for the ledgecamping rule. I dunno. On paper 70 seems like a good rule to go by, but someone can grab the ledge 40-50 times in a match and still ledge camp you for most of the fight. It'd probably be easier to get a judge or something. Cause again, you dont want people getting to like even 30-40 ledgegrabs by camping the ledge for just 1 or 1.5 of their stocks and getting away with it. Just cause they didn't do it the entire match doesnt mean they should get away with it.

Ledgecamping is gonna be a tricky one to enforce, but i think its necessary eventually.
 

Masky

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I think we are neglecting an important problem with the 70 ledge grab rule... what if both players grab the ledge more than 70 times??
 

Sensei Seibrik

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then they're both dq'd and in the case of finals all the money goes toward third place.




thats a joke


but just curious, are there any other rules people think i neglected to bring up for discussion?
 

CO18

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I think any infinites (things on Ness/Lucas, D3 on whoever he can do it to) should be banned. Anything grab release related doesnt seem that bad

whoever initiates the suicide should win no matter what. I mean, you see D3 jumping off the stage and hes waaay behind you last stock. You know whats coming. If you get sucked in you pretty much deserve it. They have to come to you cause they are behind in % so you can just sit there and wait for them to get on stage and fight you cause if not time will expire and you'll win anyway

As for the ledgecamping rule. I dunno. On paper 70 seems like a good rule to go by, but someone can grab the ledge 40-50 times in a match and still ledge camp you for most of the fight. It'd probably be easier to get a judge or something. Cause again, you dont want people getting to like even 30-40 ledgegrabs by camping the ledge for just 1 or 1.5 of their stocks and getting away with it. Just cause they didn't do it the entire match doesnt mean they should get away with it.

Ledgecamping is gonna be a tricky one to enforce, but i think its necessary eventually.
Realistically the rule would most likely be changed to 50 grabs. the 70 grab rule is used with a 10-minute timer since that's what they use in japan. For a 7 minute timer it would be about 50. Actually Xyro(guy who runs all big texas tourneys) is already starting to use this rule and hes using 50 grabs.
 

Sensei Seibrik

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i always thought 70 was a bit much, and i feel 50 will be good for anyone thats ledgecamping period. this way, if anyone ledgecamps period, andur waiting at the other side of the stage, they're risking going over more for 50 than 70, so thats gonna limit it alot more.
 

Ruse

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Last stock inhale/suicide kills (IE ddd's inhale last stock)-Who wins? Lower %? Total % added up at ending screen loses, inhaler autowins (CoT4 did this), rematch one stock? Needs to be decided, and remain constant throughout tournies.
Inhale kills aren't too too hard to get off. If you can't camp at all and the D3 is just hanging out on/near/off the ledge and trying to suck up your nuts, well, it just kinda sucks (no pun).

lucas,ness/marth cg. My opinion, ban all.
I'm pretty sure that they figured out a way out of that a while ago...

Standing infinites take no skill (unlike IC CGs) and seriously make a few characters a lot less tournament viable, especially since D3 is so popular. Ban that s***.
 

Stripesorbars3

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no its just MK and DDD

u cant unbreak a game that was meant to be played with people whove never touched a game controller.

good luck tho.
 

KOkingpin

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I think there is a mod for Brawl+ that stops Auto ledge Grabbing. Im not 100% on that but its definitely something that would stop ledge stalling to an extent.


Either that or just play brawl+ all together. (or melee)
 

pimps & hoes

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PRESIDENT IAN MOONEY PROMISES TO MAKE BRAWL ILLEGAL IN FLORIDA, AND EVERY OTHER STATE. IF BUSH CAN DO IT, SO CAN CASH MOONEY. YUP. VOTE MOONEY 2012, KIDS.
 

OverLade

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Character who initiated the inhaleside/ganoncide should always win. If you get gayed that way it's probably your fault for chillin by the edge/edguarding badly. Learn what moves to through inhale/ways to get around it.

Going by the winners screen isn't fair because the game is inconsistent. It should either be "percentage", or who initiated the suicide.
 

Noa.

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Character who initiated the inhaleside/ganoncide should always win. If you get gayed that way it's probably your fault for chillin by the edge/edguarding badly. Learn what moves to through inhale/ways to get around it.

Going by the winners screen isn't fair because the game is inconsistent. It should either be "percentage", or who initiated the suicide.
I agree with this. Inhales aren't hard to see coming. It's a viable way to kill someone. Find ways to beat inhale. It's really not so hard.
 

Tommy_G

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NROLXF7P2DY
2:46 "Melee...is just...I don't like it because you run away a lot vs this one where you link up a lot of moves."
"Well this is also because there's a lot more DI in Melee, its like theres set combos in this one."
"Because you can just get out of the combos by DIing"

The only way we could do the suicide move is just letting the person who did the move wins.
 

OverLade

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NROLX...eature=related
2:46 "Melee...is just...I don't like it because you run away a lot vs this one where you link up a lot of moves."
"Well this is also because there's a lot more DI in Melee, its like theres set combos in this one."
"Because you can just get out of the combos by DIing"

The only way we could do the suicide move is just letting the person who did the move wins.
Malformed link.

And QFT. Whoever uses a suicide move should simply win. No ledge camping negates any gayness someone could try to do to force a suicide.
 
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