First Flight of The Ostrich a Raleigh, NC tournament 5/30

[Flamingo]

Straight Seven Fish Flop!!

ehh.. Straight Seven Fish Flop!!

 

[Dr Peepee]

Flamingo you confuse me.

Gauvin you confuse me.

Daaaaang Shady, why you so good?

yedoubles

 

[NC-Echo]

which means bill won't be an automatic 10 and gauvn won't be a 2.

I was the highest ranked player at the tournament so in that case I should be a 10 and gauvin didn't have a 2, he just lost to people he should have beaten so he spent the rest of the day blaming the brackets because he squandered.

 

[Rigged Bracket]

I was the highest ranked player at the tournament

To who?

I think I'm gonna have to make a call to cousin Rigged Power Rankings.

 

[-ACE-]

Yo Rigged Bracket, I might need your help on the 6th. Don't leave me hangin

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

oh nc smash. your schenanigans never cease to amuse me. see you guys on the 20th

 

[Rohan]

To who?

I think I'm gonna have to make a call to cousin Rigged Power Rankings.

lolololololololol

 

[NC-Echo]

This is ridiculous. You people show such blatant disrespect and even when gauvin is gonna come in and insult me personally when most of his comments are issues he knows nothing about, only Jon stands up and tells him its wrong.

I will try to control my temper at tournaments I really will but this has got to stop.

Whatever I have to go to work because although I pay for every single bill, including insurance, myself, apparently I am spoiled.

 

[Rigged Bracket]

Yo Rigged Bracket, I might need your help on the 6th. Don't leave me hangin

We'll see what we can work out.


You understand it's at bills though, so your probably gonna play PP first round and LoZR 2nd. That's how it's lookin right now.

 

[Rigged Power Rankings]

To who?

I think I'm gonna have to make a call to cousin Rigged Power Rankings.

You call me?

 

[Krackshot Kroc]

I had a lot of fun at this tournament, even though Shady and I didn't do too well in teams.

But it was great, it was funny because I got more Melee practice in at this tournament than Brawl practice lol.

Thanks for the tournament Omni

 

[Foxy]

Ben, I thought you had an awesome place for the tournament, and thanks again to your parents for letting us use it. The room was cool (well, not temperature-wise) and had great spots for setups. Probably couldn't hold a bigger crowd, but it was totally legit for small tournaments. I thought it was better than my basement, apart from the fact that I can hold a lot more people.

Brawl+ was a lot of fun, until it inevitably turned into abusing broken nerf-needing attacks and combos like it always does in Winners/Grand Finals of Brawl+ tournaments. I just ended up camping grab combos with Falcon and up-B with MK, and Bill camped grab combos and bairs with Kirby and more skillful tech-chasing with Olimar (which he is really very good at). I thought I played well in the finals (apart from sporadic suidices) and Bill definitely deserved first, he's has some intense skill. For my part, I'm really not the greatest Brawl+ player, I just use Falcon like I do in Melee and spam gay stuff with other characters (except Squirtle, that's ALL pro skill).

Brawl+ doubles was funny. Even though Karn and I managed to not win money, I still actually had a lot of fun in our 3 sets and still am very glad that Ben let us run it. All I can say is: don't trust melted Snickers.

Then I played Melee and once I worked out of B+ mode all was well in the world of Smash. I'm too proud that I got two shine-bairs with Fox in a row. ;D

GofG's iceys are too good, watching his MM with Karn was great. Good **** taking him to last stock on game 3! You're definitely gonna get ranked this summer.

Yeah.

tl;dr version: B+ was lots of fun, Brawl took a long time, Ben's place is great, Melee is so much more fun.

Edit: Post results soon, if you have them. <3

 

[Jon?]

Gauvn, theoretically seeded brackets are most balanced. If done perfectly, a non power ranked player will get knocked out second or third round and then you can continue in the losers bracket with people around your skill level.

 

[GAUVN]

Gauvn, theoretically seeded brackets are most balanced. If done perfectly, a non power ranked player will get knocked out second or third round and then you can continue in the losers bracket with people around your skill level.

It makes sense, but then I saw the theoretically portion of it. A lot of things sound real nice and good in theory, and then when they are actually used, it goes to hell. If done right, and by done right I mean more then just the host doing the bracket (say 5 people doing the bracket) then you are absolutely right, it can be most balanced. Right now, I honestly don't believe they are balanced, and the only person reaming me is the same person who makes the bracket.

We tried a tourney with stage striking for like the first time. Why not try a tourney with unseeded brackets? I understand you don't care either which way, but you also said its only 5 dollars, so it shouldn't matter either which way.

tl;dr version, sounds good in theory, but still screwed up, prove me wrong, lololololololol

 

[Foxy]

Yeah, any kind of seeding (by skill, location, etc) is better than a random bracket.

You see, skill seeding (or through pools results) isn't just important in order to allow skilled players to avoid playing until the latest rounds; it's actually necessary to have the most accurate results. For example, if the 8 best players in the world were in one bracket in a 16-person tournament, and the other 8 players in the second bracket were horrible, obviously the 8 world-class competitors should get places 1st through 8th. However, with them all in the same bracket, they can take 1st and 2nd through losers, but 3rd place is guaranteed to be allocated to one of the random noobs. This terrible player just placed above 6 of the world's best. Some other spots in the top 8 will also be forfeited to the worse players thanks to the bracket.

That's why it's important to not have a random bracket. I do support, however, tweaking either as little as possible or having the TO fix the bracket alone without any player input (not to say that Bill would necessarily give any advice that wasn't just from TO experience). Tweaking brackets can actually be very necessary, Tio can make dumb choices and even with skill-seeding you can end up with a bracket that would give you inaccurate results. Tweaks are also very important for just making your tournament run more smoothly and making it more enjoyable for everyone; for example, if you see 2 siblings who play together every day right next to each other, you should probably switch one of them out to the other bracket for another player of equal skill (preserving the accuracy and just making it a better tournament).

Gauvn, you have the right intentions about it, and I think that if you're willing to take a bracket with Bill first round that there's no reason you shouldn't get it, but this is just some bracket theory that can be important to know before you start throwing around calls for a randomly-seeded tournament.

 

[Jon?]

I believe the best solution is to have every player "ranked" at the tournament in terms of skill and have non-bias and neutral spectators or players to help arrange brackets.

Or we could do it like professional sports where the team with the best season record is number 1 seed and so on and so forth so it will be like:

1vs8, 2vs7, 3vs6, 4vs5

 

[Foxy]

I agree with both of those solutions. If I have a decent turnout at my next tournament, I think I'll give that a shot.

 

[stingers]

for example, if you see 2 siblings who play together every day right next to each other, you should probably switch one of them out to the other bracket for another player of equal skill (preserving the accuracy and just making it a better tournament).

Me and Jim's first tournament, Munkaid 4, we played each other first round.

 

[Foxy]

Man, sounds like that was LOADS of fun.

I played my best friend second round of my first Melee tournament, it was dumb.

 

[GAUVN]

Yeah, any kind of seeding (by skill, location, etc) is better than a random bracket.

You see, skill seeding (or through pools results) isn't just important in order to allow skilled players to avoid playing until the latest rounds; it's actually necessary to have the most accurate results. For example, if the 8 best players in the world were in one bracket in a 16-person tournament, and the other 8 players in the second bracket were horrible, obviously the 8 world-class competitors should get places 1st through 8th. However, with them all in the same bracket, they can take 1st and 2nd through losers, but 3rd place is guaranteed to be allocated to one of the random noobs. This terrible player just placed above 6 of the world's best. Some other spots in the top 8 will also be forfeited to the worse players thanks to the bracket.

That's why it's important to not have a random bracket. I do support, however, tweaking either as little as possible or having the TO fix the bracket alone without any player input (not to say that Bill would necessarily give any advice that wasn't just from TO experience). Tweaking brackets can actually be very necessary, Tio can make dumb choices and even with skill-seeding you can end up with a bracket that would give you inaccurate results. Tweaks are also very important for just making your tournament run more smoothly and making it more enjoyable for everyone; for example, if you see 2 siblings who play together every day right next to each other, you should probably switch one of them out to the other bracket for another player of equal skill (preserving the accuracy and just making it a better tournament).

Gauvn, you have the right intentions about it, and I think that if you're willing to take a bracket with Bill first round that there's no reason you shouldn't get it, but this is just some bracket theory that can be important to know before you start throwing around calls for a randomly-seeded tournament.

Thank you, that really does make a LOT more sense then what I've been hearing. It even came with flash cards and detailed charts to make it even more comprehensible ^_^

Now that things have become clearer to me, I don't want non-seeded brackets. However, your analogy is a little farfetched. In a tourney of 16 people, It would be next to impossible for the best to get stuck in one bracket, and the worst in another. I do understand your meaning though.

I'm not trashing bill at this point, but even with his TO exp, there are still plenty of others that have done lots of tourneys, know lots of players, and have hosted a good number of tourneys. No matter how legit of a player bill may be, if you told anyone around the world that the person who helped make the tree is also the person who placed near the top, there answer would be "wait, what"? At PLUR's, there will probably be you, PLUR, omni, vilt, behr, zero, etc. Can one of you set-up the bracket?

And do I make sense in what I say?

 

[stingers]

- Assign everyone a skill level, which will be checked out by various people at the tournament to make sure it's not biased
- Let TIO randomize the bracket based on skill

- MAKE ONLY THE MOST NECESSARY CHANGES (like if Zero and Derp got placed together first round)

There we go! Woo! Easy.

 

[TheLastCacely]

make my skill lvl a 1 please

 

[Dorsey]

Setting up a bracket based on seeding is good for many sports in games. That being said I don't think smash is one of them.

When you go to a smash tournament, you go unknowingly to who your opponent is. If we had seeding at the tournaments, this would create 1) even more confrontation about how people are being seeded because obviously several people really care about it and 2) preparation for tournaments would be different...being that you would have a good idea of who you will face at each tournament and which round. Predictability kinda sucks. Seeding by skill is not a better, and it will be also more difficult to handle, imo. After all, we are all attempting to play at the same level at these tournaments, right?

Brackets should be entirely random. there's a loser bracket for when you slip up or have a tough match-up early on. Personally I feel that the problem is that NC needs to be more like bros about the situation. I mean how can anyone bitc.h about a random bracket? lol.... who cares, it's the luck of the draw. It's not like it will affect the ultimate outcome at all basically, and if someone gets lucky and wins some money due to the bracket.......THEN GOOD FOR THEM. If you bros want to start complaining about match-ups then there might as well be a pro and a novice bracket...as for me I will be playing the Bro bracket.

I kinda assumed that the brackets were randomly seeded at this tournament... if not, then my mistake... but still, they should be random.

 

[lord karn]

Honestly, the only tourney where Bill really messed up the brackets was PLUR's. . . The brackets at Omni's were completely fine. Even at the last Billfest, where Bill seemed to have a really easy bracket, it was because all of the good people in his bracket were upsetted early to Keith/Flamingo. His bracket was easier than mine, but I was also lower ranked at the time so that is usually the way it goes. Now, it is gay that the PLUR bracket was so bad, but at least he admitted his mistake before the tourney was even over. He didn't make the bracket completely alone at Omni's either, which is what he said he would do in the future.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Edit: Ah nevermind.

Rofl @ Rigged Bracket and PRs.

 

[Foxy]

I, for one, actually like tournament placings to be a reflection of how good the players are.

Enjoy your randomly-seeded "Bro Bracket."

 

[Shady Penguin]

so for all of you guys who dont want to read that long *** post above(most of it was filled with bs anyway) then here is my summary of the tourney.

Brawl + Summary
-falcon is awesome because he can knee stuff
-bill has a good kirby
-foxy is smart but thinks he isnt
Brawl Doubles Summary
-Fiz and Rohan were seeded lowest because they had never placed before
-teams included the likes of Karn+Kieth, Bill+Omni, Seth+Rag, KSK+Shady, Uncle+Phoot, and Gauvin+unknown
-Fiz and Rohan won the tourney
-Rohan was Fox
-Fiz and Rohan are from sp
-Fiz and Rohan were unseeded
-Bill raged
Brawl Singles Summary
-Shady didnt lose on his way to first place
-Karn 3-0ed bill in losers final w/ meta
-Karn split with shady but conceded first because he was coming from losers
-Doubles was again the highlight of the tourney

QFT.

And btw, who the **** is Rohan!?

Also, like I said I would: http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/Doomstar16/1207603592844.jpg

 

[Dorsey]

Well seeding has never made a big difference to me in anything I've done. If you have a tough match up just welcome the competition and you'll do better in the long run. Also, my post was more so directed towards *****ing about the brackets then how they are actually done. Random just seems like the best way to avoid silly confrontations. I don't have a problem with how any brackets are formed. I was just trying to lighten the situation some because I thought the complaining about them was stupid.

 

[Jon?]

Honestly, the only tourney where Bill really messed up the brackets was PLUR's. . . The brackets at Omni's were completely fine.

I thought the bracket at PLUR's was fine in my opinion. I got pretty far and beat some pretty good people until Gauvn knocked me out.

 

[OmniOstrich]

Allow me to clear all this **** up by posting the brackets. Due to the awfulness of the printer and some confusion about the interpretation there was 1 part in Singles where the bracket get messed up. Rag and Bill accidentally took the wrong spots in loser's bracket. So Rag played Keith and Bill played Fiz instead of vice-versa(sp?) and they both won their matches, meeting each other the next round.

I will also post the 'skill levels' all the players were assigned so everyone can stop johning about being seeded low.

Bill was seeded as a 10, Karn as a 9, Rag as an 8, because thats their order on the PRs. Gauvin, and Keith were both seeded as 7s because they are honorable mentions. Everyone else was given the default value of a 5, because they had no significant placings IN SINGLES previously. Me and Bill then switched around a few of the players (such as Shady, Fiz, and Jon) because we know they are good. We also tried to make sure no one from the same crew/area met (which I think we did fairly well.) Shady winning was sort of an anomaly, his only singles entrances have been prior to the most recent PR list, I would assume he will be adjusted accordingly.

The reason Gauvin is complaining is basically me and Fiz upset him. I probably shouldn't have won, but he picked delfino against my MK and our match looked like a video straight off the teh_spammerer's youtube account. I sharked the entire time on the moving platform, camped next to walls on all the various stage transformations, and even glided over his head repeatedly on another. (Flamingo would be proud to see his protege in action LOL).

In doubles Rag was seeded highest(10), since he hasn't lost a doubles tournament in a long time, Me+Bill and Karn+Keith were seeded as 8s because we were the next favored players, and Gauvin+Andre were seeded as a 7 because he is an honorable mention. Everyone else was default value.

As far as I know no one cares about brawl+ seedings, if someone really wants them I'll post them later.

 

[Uncle]

I'd say the ostrich's first flight was a success. Omni, your tourney was good **** and if you ever host another, count me in. I also hope to see everybody at Billfest and/or PLUR's.

Btw, the "search for food" Keith, Karn, Shady, KSK, ph00t, and I went on after the tourney was pretty hilarious. Shall we tell the story, guys?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Ben, I thought you had an awesome place for the tournament, and thanks again to your parents for letting us use it. The room was cool (well, not temperature-wise) and had great spots for setups. Probably couldn't hold a bigger crowd, but it was totally legit for small tournaments. I thought it was better than my basement, apart from the fact that I can hold a lot more people.

Brawl+ was a lot of fun, until it inevitably turned into abusing broken nerf-needing attacks and combos like it always does in Winners/Grand Finals of Brawl+ tournaments. I just ended up camping grab combos with Falcon and up-B with MK, and Bill camped grab combos and bairs with Kirby and more skillful tech-chasing with Olimar (which he is really very good at). I thought I played well in the finals (apart from sporadic suidices) and Bill definitely deserved first, he's has some intense skill. For my part, I'm really not the greatest Brawl+ player, I just use Falcon like I do in Melee and spam gay stuff with other characters (except Squirtle, that's ALL pro skill).

Brawl+ doubles was funny. Even though Karn and I managed to not win money, I still actually had a lot of fun in our 3 sets and still am very glad that Ben let us run it. All I can say is: don't trust melted Snickers.

Then I played Melee and once I worked out of B+ mode all was well in the world of Smash. I'm too proud that I got two shine-bairs with Fox in a row. ;D

GofG's iceys are too good, watching his MM with Karn was great. Good **** taking him to last stock on game 3! You're definitely gonna get ranked this summer.

Yeah.

tl;dr version: B+ was lots of fun, Brawl took a long time, Ben's place is great, Melee is so much more fun.

Edit: Post results soon, if you have them. <3

gofg is better than me now isn't he? ;-; *quits smash*

 

[Foxy]

but you don't even play singles so it doesn't matter right? and i'm sure you **** way more than he would in doubles

haven't you played with him a bunch?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

but you don't even play singles so it doesn't matter right? and i'm sure you **** way more than he would in doubles

haven't you played with him a bunch?

Not in IC dittos because their dumb woeful matchups that are based on who can dsmash better. last time we played' i think i beat his ic with my gaw and his marth with my ic. and still i don't like not being the best ic. arg. i wish i didn't suck

 

[Foxy]

you're probably better than him

ENTER SINGLES AND PROVE IT

 

[GAUVN]

I'd say the ostrich's first flight was a success. Omni, your tourney was good **** and if you ever host another, count me in. I also hope to see everybody at Billfest and/or PLUR's.

Btw, the "search for food" Keith, Karn, Shady, KSK, ph00t, and I went on after the tourney was pretty hilarious. Shall we tell the story, guys?

Agreed, overall, great tourney, regardless of what **** I may spew. Yes, do tell the story. Judging by the party, there's a minivan, a sweetass hat, a jesus figure with philosphy under his belt, a bla....keith, the winner of singles, and....and....KSK, so I wanna hear it.

Not in IC dittos because their dumb woeful matchups that are based on who can dsmash better. last time we played' i think i beat his ic with my gaw and his marth with my ic. and still i don't like not being the best ic. arg. i wish i didn't suck

DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOURSELF! BELIEVE IN ME, WHO BELIEVES IN YOU!!!

 

[mr.fizwidget]

dang rag, we were supposed to play in singles! im kinda glad we didnt

who won doubles?

 

[mr.fizwidget]

from now on we should ask 3 questions before seeding people in doubles
1)are you power ranked?
2)where have you placed at recent tourneys?
3)are you from sp?

 

[OmniOstrich]

from now on we should ask 3 questions before seeding people in doubles
1)are you power ranked?
2)where have you placed at recent tourneys?
3)are you from sp?

Haha, well you guys have placed now so you don't have to worry about not getting seeded.

 

[Flamingo]

I don't know if this has been said yet, but regardless of PR placement, character matchups should be taken into account also, I think. I'd much rather play against DRPP first round rather than LDPK or any Snake player to be honest.

SSFF