FinOlimar Q&A Thread! (Check OP before posting)

[Noa.]

Meh, not really. Unless you tell me about Pikachu's bad matchups. Then I could come up with a secondary for him too, and a good secondary for both.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174335 here are pikachus matchups.

 

[Noa.]

Matchup threads aren't really useful for determining secondaries. Right now we have ROB and Kirby listed as bad matchups. But you best believe that me and probably other Olimars would agree that they're not bad matchups at all.

Tell me which matchups you personally have trouble with when using Pikachu.

 

[Noa.]

I apologize for the double post, but this is kind of deserving.

Which way of pivot grabbing is more effective. Dashing and smashing the control stick in the opposite direction and pressing grab, or dashing and smashing the c-stick in the opposite direction and pressing grab?

Is either faster or easier? Or does it come down to personal preference?

 

[BOB SAGET!]

The trouble matchups for me with pikachu are rob, marth, MK and G@W.

 

[Fino]

Right now we have ROB and Kirby listed as bad matchups. But you best believe that me and probably other Olimars would agree that they're not bad matchups at all.

Agree

Which way of pivot grabbing is more effective. Dashing and smashing the control stick in the opposite direction and pressing grab, or dashing and smashing the c-stick in the opposite direction and pressing grab?

Is either faster or easier? Or does it come down to personal preference?

One is a pivot grab, the other is pivot wave grab... or something stupid like that. It's not any different for Olimar since his space boots don't slide very well. At this point I would say it comes down to personal preference.


~Fino

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I need a secondary for cp!

 

[Noa.]

The trouble matchups for me with pikachu are rob, marth, MK and G@W.

Rob, Marth and G&W.

Snake beats Marth and G&W, but goes even or disadvantaged with ROB.

Marth beats G&W and goes even with ROB and Marth obviously.

Mk beats all three of them easily though. Hard counters.

But you could in fact probably use Olimar against G&W and ROB. Those are either even or in our advantage at best.

King DDD beats Marth and ROB. DDD and G&W is a funky matchup that many people disagree on, but at most it's 60:40 G&W's advantage and it's probably more even.

Only MK hard counters all of them, but a combination of Olimar and either Snake or DDD would handle those matchups.

One is a pivot grab, the other is pivot wave grab... or something stupid like that. It's not any different for Olimar since his space boots don't slide very well. At this point I would say it comes down to personal preference.


~Fino

I thought they were exactly the same, and both executed just a plain pivot grab. Maybe it is just personal preference. I think I'll stick with using the control stick-grab and not cstick-grab since I use X for grab and that would be too much for one thumb.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I checked the DK matchups, im good with him and he handles my bad matchups. I'm good.

 

[xDD-Master]

When I hit a pikmin with Uptilt or another move, does it go on the 10-move-list, you know, the list for Move Diminishing ???

 

[Snail]

Yeah it does. Pikmin decay moves, so it's best to use something you don't mind staling to get them off you.

 

[Llumys]

In dittos I tend to get get them off with nairs for maneuverability, but I'm thinking of mixing it up with some retreating dash attacks.

 

[xDD-Master]

Yeah it does. Pikmin decay moves, so it's best to use something you don't mind staling to get them off you.

Well OK thats bull****, cause I think uptilt is the best move Snake has to get them off, or could you tell me which are the 3 best (without uptilt... need for killing -.-) ._.

 

[BooYaKa]

Is Dair as the spike useful or risky?

 

[_lemons]

Is Dair as the spike useful or risky?

Depends on how easily the character is spiked, but generally it's risky (in my admittedly limited experience).

 

[DanGR]

Is Dair as the spike useful or risky?

Both. Don't be predictable about using it, and don't use it against Meta Knight, G&W or anyone with a really good hitbox on their recovery.

 

[BooYaKa]

Alright, thanks. I'll practice it, just to add to my knowledge.

 

[Dotcom]

You should also try incorporating Dair out of shield against some characters. It's a really good punisher and **** near no one expects it, inless you do it alor. Only drawback is that it has more lag than I t hnk any of his other aerials. Meh. Me likes.

 

[DanGR]

You should also try incorporating Dair out of shield against some characters. It's a really good punisher and **** near no one expects it, inless you do it alor. Only drawback is that it has more lag than I t hnk any of his other aerials. Meh. Me likes.

^This

I like it occasionally against Metaknight's glide attack. They usually dtilt, dsmash, or grab after it. If you dair out of shield, they'll get hit if they do any of those. ^_^ And at about 40-50%, it leads into an upsmash/upair.

 

[Noa.]

Dair is useful for hitting an opponent when they're jumping from the ledge. I find it easy to hit with and it does enough knockback that at the edge it can kill.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I've been wondering what a good secondary for Olimar is other than MK. I've noticed ZSS does ok vs most of Oli's bad MU's.

 

[DanGR]

Snake, Marth, MK or... just not taking the time to learn a secondary. I've been skipping around lately, experimenting with Wario, Snake, G&W, Marth, and... Mk... They've all got a pretty even or worse matchups with Marth, except Meta Knight. Even with the slight edge I've got with MK over Marth, I still do better with Olimar, when I think about it. Right now, I just need to find a good secondary JUST for MK, because he's the only one I feel hopeless against. I might just use MK against MK. I don't wanna take a lot of time out of my Oli to learn every little thing about Snake's matchup vs Meta. MK is way too easy and covers more characters... all of them. >_< /pointless rant

 

[Jim Morrison]

I've been playing my friends decent MK a lot and it really improves my game playing him. I feel that matchup expierence is really a great help in this matchup. But that still won't cut it :/ I'm mostly picking up a main for MK, Peach and a bit of Luigi (I don't have that much trouble with him). ZSS does decent vs all of them (45:55 vs MK is good )

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

I've been playing my friends decent MK a lot and it really improves my game playing him. I feel that matchup expierence is really a great help in this matchup. But that still won't cut it :/ I'm mostly picking up a main for MK, Peach and a bit of Luigi (I don't have that much trouble with him). ZSS does decent vs all of them (45:55 vs MK is good )

I'm actually considering ZSS as a secondary for Olimar thanks to you and DanGR, I can't get used to playing as MK/Snake/Marth so I'm hoping that she'll work for me.

Can someone explain why G&W/Kirby/Lucario aren't good secondaries for Olimar? Since no one mentioned them and since Fino advised me against them, I'm assuming that they aren't.

 

[Noa.]

If you want a secondary for Peach and Luigi, Marth is the best one imo. He handles both of them easily.

A secondary for Mk is more difficult. If you don't want to use Olimar, just pick up one of the popular Mk "counters." Snake, Wario, Diddy, Icies, etc. Personal preference.

G&W does a decent job for a secondary. He beats Luigi about 65:35, goes 60:40 with Peach. G&W's matchup with Mk is more complicated though. Most G&W's think it's 60:40 Mk's favor. But the best G&W believes it's unwinnable for G&W.

As for Kirby, I'm not sure how he does against Luigi, but he goes only even with Peach. Kirby's matchup with Mk is actually considered 60:40 or 55:45 onstage. But recovering against Mk with Kirby is difficult unless you copy the tornado. The tornado offers great manuverability for a recovery.

I don't know about Lucario's matchups. Check the Lucario boards for that info.

 

[Fino]

since Fino advised me against them, I'm assuming that they aren't.

Ummm... what? @.@ when did I say this.

As for picking up a secondary... personally I'm not for tournaments. I have a strong set of IC's right now, which I have used in MM's, but in tournament it's all olimar. My mantra has always been play oliamr until I feel every match-up is in his favor. I feel I'm getting close... but there's still plenty of bs I don't know how to deal with yet ^^; If only KC had a bigger smash scene =-/


~Fino

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

Ummm... what? @.@ when did I say this.

As for picking up a secondary... personally I'm not for tournaments. I have a strong set of IC's right now, which I have used in MM's, but in tournament it's all olimar. My mantra has always been play olimar until I feel every match-up is in his favor. I feel I'm getting close... but there's still plenty of bs I don't know how to deal with yet ^^; If only KC had a bigger smash scene =-/


~Fino

You told me not to use them in one of our AiM chats, you then told me to go all Olimar :O

 

[Jim Morrison]

I shouldn't be thinking about secondaries yet, though :/
I've been playing just 2 weeks, I should focus on my Olimar.

 

[Fino]

You told me not to use them in one of our AiM chats, you then told me to go all Olimar :O

I might've said go all olimar.. but I didn't say don't use a secondary. I would rather see people learn the match-ups as olimar instead of pu$sy out and pick-up a secondary like mk to counter other characters.... this is how metagame gets slowed down... and it's already fairly stagnant. Also, you will never get better with olimar if you rely on another character other than olimar to win.


~Fino

 

[Noa.]

I've never been fond of picking up secondaries. As long as a matchup isn't worse unwinable, you should be able to win. And because Olimar:Mk is 70:30 at worst, a secondary shouldn't be necessary. It's just not good to waste your time with them.

 

[Cook]

I've never been fond of picking up secondaries. As long as a matchup isn't worse unwinable, you should be able to win. And because Olimar:Mk is 70:30 at worst, a secondary shouldn't be necessary. It's just not good to waste your time with them.

70:30 is PRETTY bad...

 

[chimpact]

Weruop almost beat tyrant with nair to upsmash alone.....

hilt get on aim

 

[Noa.]

70:30 is PRETTY bad...

Well, I did say 70:30 at worst. At best it's 60:40. I think it's 65:35. Opinions are varied in this matchup.

I think you should judge yourself if you need a secondary for Mk.

 

[Dabuz]

yeah, like i say its 65-35, but i also hate this matchup with a passion, so im learning shiek for this matchup cause i can deal with it using her

 

[DanGR]

I think you should judge yourself if you need a secondary for Mk.

What's that supposed to mean? >_>

Do you mean "judge for yourself"?

 

[Noa.]

What's that supposed to mean? >_>

Do you mean "judge for yourself"?

Yeah, that's what I meant.

 

[GwJ]

Other people need you!

DarkWarCloud has opened up the Training Grounds. What this is is a place for new players to learn who plays what characters all in a simple thread so that they can contact said person to "teach" them the basics. As of right now, we only have a handful of "teachers" for a few characters and we need more! This is where you come in. Anyone who is skilled with your characters (any character) and has the free time to teach someone how to either: Teach the basics of the game in general and/or teach specific character(s), go in the thread and either post or PM DarkWarCloud with your information (Format is in the thread) where you may possibly be contacted by someone who wants to learn. The future of smash lies in your hands.

On the other hand, if you wish to learn, go to the thread also!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241698

 

[Noa.]

I saw that thread. It looks pretty useful.

Just need people to volunteer.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I know Olimar gets gimped hard by peach by a well thrown turnip. But i think if the olimar grabs the turnip with the grab button, he should be able to catch the turnip with very little lag. Do you guys think this would be applicable against peach's turnips?

 

[Fino]

I know Olimar gets gimped hard by peach by a well thrown turnip. But i think if the olimar grabs the turnip with the grab button, he should be able to catch the turnip with very little lag. Do you guys think this would be applicable against peach's turnips?

I stopped reading after the first 6 words. Olimar doesn't get gimped hard by any projectile


~Fino