FINAL QUESTION for E for All Expo Attendees (Brawl: Failure or Success?)

[t!MmY]

We won't know how competitive Brawl will be until after it comes out, and not right away either. We only had a glimpse with the demo, but I think all of us who went feel that there is still a lot to learn.

I'm almost certain Brawl will be a financial success, and that everyone will be playing Brawl when it comes out. What comes after that is yet to be seen, but it's not like we can't all go back to Melee if it comes down to that.

 

[Kimosabae]

What comes after that is yet to be seen, but it's not like we can't all go back to Melee if it comes down to that.

Trust me when I say that's not likely.



-SynikaL

 

[Emblem Lord]

Synikal speaks the truth.

The casuals would go to brawl even if it sucks. Remember they are what keep the community so huge. Not the hardcore people. They are the reason why tournies get 100 man or more turn outs.

If Brawl sucks then hardcore gamers will stick with melee, but the bulk of the tourney players, the casual tourney goers will play Brawl. With the community split it would all fall apart. The hardcore players who possess the ability to analyze and take a game to a higer level would scorn Brawl, and Brawl's lifespan wouldn't last. The casual tourney goers would leave melee in the past, but lack the understanding of the game engine to truly take the community to new heights. Any casual goers that did try to take brawl toa new level would ultimately see that Brawl is inferior to melee and give up on the game and go back to playing melee ors top playing altogether.

That is most likely what would happen if Brawl sucks competitively.

The tourney community would split and then die out after about a year or so.

Same with the Soul Caliber community, which by the way was pretty huge. Probably the biggest fighting game community after the SSBM comunity.

 

[Kimosabae]

The main problem with Soul Calibur, though, is the 3rd installment suffered from the most broken game play design of all three. Soul Calibur has always been criticized by outsiders for its buggy nature, and when Variable Cancel appeared in SC3 -- a stronger, more potent version of the very same bug that crippled SC2 -- the game was pretty much DOA and siphoned what little life was left in the staggering community.

I doubt Brawl will be similar in the sense that any game breaking glitches will harm it's integrity or merit as a competitive fighter -- Nintendo excels at game testing.

Brawl will be a fun, polished and wildly popular game no matter what, so I think if anything, we could see a situation similar to the Halo -> Halo 2 transition: Top Melee players stomaching a watered down sequel because of the money the game draws in with its popularity (with a handful simply shunning the game completely and sticking with Melee) and new names rising from obscurity due to a lack of affinity for the prior game facilitating their embrace of the new game's mechanics.

-SynikaL

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think more then anything it will just cause a split in the community.

 

[po pimpus]

Not to insult anyone in paticular, but I don't think we should be worrying about anything until we all get to play Brawl. So let's just wait and see, okay?

As long as the game is fun(which seemingly, it is, if early impressions are to be trusted), then we can worry about the other stuff in a year or two(about how long it took for Melee to really take off competitively).

 

[messiahfreak2000]

Not to insult anyone in paticular, but I don't think we should be worrying about anything until we all get to play Brawl. So let's just wait and see, okay?

As long as the game is fun(which seemingly, it is, if early impressions are to be trusted), then we can worry about the other stuff in a year or two(about how long it took for Melee to really take off competitively).

right on man. i'd think most of us can agree on that (hopefully).

 

[dodoromeo]

Brawl without the majority of 'advanced' techniques has taken so long to perfect because Sakurai is FORCING everyone to play his game how it was meant to be played.

It sounds bad, but wouldn't you do the same thing if you saw people abusing the fighting engine of your game? All of the people you see playing it are playing it using glitches, exploits and the sort? I certainly would create a better game, eliminating glitches and exploits.

Brawl is just that. Melee perfected, with no exploits or glitches. (to our knowledge)

Bravo! This is exactly what I wanted to say, the so-called "advanced techniques" are just an abuse of glitches in the core game (well most of them anyway). Sakurai has done beginners of the smash scene a great justice, in allowing them to compete of a level playing field with smash veterans. Never again will newbies be intimidated by a 'wave-slider' like luigi, or a 'SHFFL-god' like marth, there will be only a focus on practicing smash the way that it was originally meant to be played.

That being said, I am going to miss wavedashing to edgehog, but these are the developments that should have been made long ago.

 

[FightingGameGuy]

Bravo! This is exactly what I wanted to say, the so-called "advanced techniques" are just an abuse of glitches in the core game (well most of them anyway). Sakurai has done beginners of the smash scene a great justice, in allowing them to compete of a level playing field with smash veterans. Never again will newbies be intimidated by a 'wave-slider' like luigi, or a 'SHFFL-god' like marth, there will be only a focus on practicing smash the way that it was originally meant to be played.

That being said, I am going to miss wavedashing to edgehog, but these are the developments that should have been made long ago.

If more skilled players and beginners are competing evenly, they are no longer competing at all. If what determines the outcome isn't skill or ability, it is not competition.

If you mean that veterans will no longer have an advantage because there will be no parts of the game that require practice, you are sorely mistaken. Even if individual skills won't require practice, character moveset and match ups knowledge will require countless hours of practice and tournament experience. Do you want that removed as well to even the playing field? I hope not.

Why then should another part of the game be removed because it intimidates you?

Who cares how games were originally meant to be played? Tennis was meant to be played with a continental grips by people rich white men in constricting long pants and they were probably never supposed to break a sweat. Should running have been banned in the sport because it went against gentlemanly decor of the game and its tough to do in long pants? Thankfully, people cared more about the excitement they could derive from pushing the game and theirselves to the limit than how the games were intended to be played. Get over your intimidation and improve yourself. Its a lot more fun to face your fears than to cower in front of them.

Heck, you seem to have done this. But why not just tell any newbies the same thing? Rather than consoling them with the promise of making everyone else worse, why can't we console them with the promise that they too could be better?

P.S. every part of SHFFL was explicitly programmed into the game. And all the parts are returning in Brawl, just l-canceling is performed differently.

P.P.S. What's up with this intimidation thing? I suppose there's a continuum where your response to such techniques can be either "omg that's so unfair" or "oh man, that's awesome". But how did the US/Japan/Europe become such wusses (maybe its just Nintendo's younger demographic)? Look at Starcraft in Korea, everytime some one pulls off some insane feat of advanced technical skill, they sponsor the guy and sell stadiums worth of tickets.

 

[NES n00b]

Actually, if age was a determining factor of who is a scrub (it means not wanting to push the metagame to its fullest because of some kind of mental block, not an insult), then it would be that anyone other then teenagers would be mostly scrubs.

I love you guy who posted above me.

To add to what he said though, MOST of the advance techniques are not glitches at all. They are exploits which is different from a glitch. Even if it was glitches, what difference would it make?

 

[XIF]

This topic is ******** and I hate everyone in here.

wait for the game to come out.

And then if it's SO bad, play melee.

there

is

no

problem

 

[manacloud1]

lol

brawl is making more people fight than melee did. Who cares were getting a new game appreciate it. Sakurai was nice enough to go through all this trouble and make it happen, so less arguing more i cant wait till feb.

 

[MetalMetaKnight]

As many people have said "BRAWL IS A COMPLETLEY DIFFERENT GAME, EXPECT THINGS TO CHANGE" point made but i will not stop there, ill go deeper with my statement.

~My Point~

Not every single smash game is the same. The characters style can change, different skills and advantages/dissadvantages. About your coment about the L-cancel, yes some might be sad, but then again its a demo. But if it was gone in the actual game, it opens up many new ways to battle and for us to figure out. Thats what we all had to do with melee, little by little. The game is new, games should be different and if taking the L cancel away make you think that its the world for you...pitty, YOUR NOT A TRUE SMASHER. Im not flamming, im not insulting, im stating the truth...

Thats as easly as i can put it without hurting many feelings, sorry guys

~The Good~

The good side though is that Brawl will have many secrets we dont know...and wont know untill the release of the game. There is allways a difference between a newb and a pro. Even though all the advance techs are an abuse of glitching which i dont like, it still happens and i do it too becase i have to play that people play, ill get left behind if i dont.

~MMKs Words of Wisdom~

"The skill you contain with practice is what makes all of us different, seperating some from newbs to pros. With time, everyone can become a pro. The newbies also know as casual gamers will have some fun with just basics, but we tend to take it to the extreme, testing ourselves, what our limit is...the problem with that is that we may mistake ourselves by saying "im undefeatable" or "Im #1" remember, there is no #1 in anything, even if have won many championships, tourneys. No one is perfect, being to perfect can be a flaw to yourself, leaving you unperfect making you never perfect. There is always someone better than me, you, and all of us."~Words of wisdom by MMK (Metal Meta Knight) AKA me.

Sorry guys my dads a philosopher, stuff i say may be confusing but its just the bare truth, standing wide open, for everyone to realize. lol, have a good night guys, this topics made me slightly upset (Pardon bad grammar or spelling, im not perfect im only 13)

GOOD JOB IF YOU READ MY WHOLE POST, not alot of people do

 

[XIF]

did I mention my unrelenting hate?

 

[NES n00b]

did I mention my unrelenting hate?

I hate you, too. =D

Plus, your opinion doesn't count you play Peach. Pfft

Edit: I have heard the term "True Smasher" thrown by scrubs, casuals, advance tech users, and competitive players say throw this around and I was wondering what it meant because they do not define it. It seemed like a totally abstract and arbitrary idea of what a smasher is until I realized that it really meant someone who loves the smash series and is a fan of it. So, pretty much people are supposed to be insulted that you are not a fan of the series? I still don't get that part.

 

[MetalMetaKnight]

Ive allways been a fan of the sries of smash but the abusing of the L-cancel which is a glitch (AKA a mistake) is kinda weird to be that someone might be upset about it. Thats my opinion. If it wasnt discovered, well, it would plainly be left to be secret. The game was meant to be without the glitch but you get around it easly i guess. You have to use it if others do to or else, advantage for me as a player is useless

 

[NES n00b]

Ive allways been a fan of the sries of smash but the abusing of the L-cancel which is a glitch (AKA a mistake) is kinda weird to be that someone might be upset about it. Thats my opinion. If it wasnt discovered, well, it would plainly be left to be secret. The game was meant to be without the glitch but you get around it easly i guess. You have to use it if others do to or else, advantage for me as a player is useless

Well, L cancelling was probably intentional due to these three factors.

1. It cuts lag down by half. When you think about it. why would a glitch cause the lag to be cut in half by pressing a button? Why would it the way it does? Glitches such of this usually get confused with some other start up thing or animation. Ex: Jump cancelled grabs which confuses the game by using grab right after the jump to confuse the game into thinking that you were doing a standing grab. Cutting the lag in half makes no sense by pressing L unless it is programmed in.

2. It has a window of which you have to press L or R. Why would such a thing need a specific window to cut lag of arials in half? It has lots of lee way too.

3. Z cancelling was in SSB 64 and it cut all the lag. It might have been a glitch in SSB but since it the properties changed in SSBM to half. It seems the developers modified it so that it only gets rid of lag by half.

This game would have been terribly broken if this game didn't have shffl (which l cancelling is part of). Sheik, Marth, and Peach would dominate the game. Anyways, whatever play works for you I guess. We like Smash's "glitches" and the basics of it so some people do not like that l cancelling is taken away. *shrug*

 

[orintemple]

First of all... WAIT FOR THE GAME TO BE RELEASED!!!!

And I wouldn't worry too much about the competitive scene. Even if the Melee pros don't find it competitive that doesn't mean no one will. There will be a whole new world of Smash Bros metagame, not involving many of the current Melee pros but new people who take Brawl to the extreme.

And Melee still exists, we have been playing it for 6 years there is no reason to stop if Brawl fails.

 

[slikvik]

Ive allways been a fan of the sries of smash but the abusing of the L-cancel which is a glitch (AKA a mistake) is kinda weird to be that someone might be upset about it. Thats my opinion. If it wasnt discovered, well, it would plainly be left to be secret. The game was meant to be without the glitch but you get around it easly i guess. You have to use it if others do to or else, advantage for me as a player is useless

you have no idea what you are talking about. stop posting

 

[NG7]

a person can know all the fancy stuff but a few simple moves can bring 'em down. meta game, a skilled player can work in any situation, regardless if they know techs or not.

I know you're already done talking about this particular thing, but I just wanted to clear a few things up first

"All the fancy stuff". I think you're trivialising the advantages these techs give you when you employ them properly. You talk like tournament players know nothing outside of practicing these techs. I can assure you that all serious players focus on their abilities to "work in any situation" as you say, equally as much as the skilled non-technical players you mention.

So in the end, both players are equal in strategy and thinking, but the technical player is much greater in their speed, combos, and general knowledge of the game.

Techs aren't used just to be "fancy'. Get it?

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Please dont response if you dont play smash competitive. Trying going to a tournament sometime and see how fun it is. If melee was a shallow game then there wouldnt be a tournament scene and smashboards wouldnt be what it is. Also you seem to not understand that the game doesnt have to be the same it just has to be deeper and what people love. It just so happens that competitive players enjoy similarities. Why are you here if you dont play the game competitively?

And Iwata said in the nintendo press conference at the end of 06 that the games coming out in 07 will be geared toward hardcore gamers on the list of games he mentioned ssbb.

Maybe you should get your fact stright before acting like a pretentious prick. What are u, a hipster?

Ummm, Sakurai is not Iwata, big difference. For all we know, Iwata was talking out his *** anyway to help bolster the game.

No, competitive players do not enjoy similarities, you do. Change is good, not bad. And please get off this, "SmashBoards.com wouldn't be here if it weren't for us" drama. SmashBoards is around because, regardless of its level of competitiveness, it is a fun game of which the owner, Gideon enjoyed. Gideon had the opportunity many times to pull the plug on these boards earlier on in its life, but didn't, so please can the 'holier than though' attitude. The competitive scene did not 'make or break' these boards. This thread, much like others, fails.

 

[Dogenzaka]

no pro's fear losing a great game due to the fact Nintendo wanted to make the noobs actually have a chance.

God forbid Nintendo wants a game for the Wii that is accessible to anyone that can pick up and play.

There are TWO things that Nintendo has done with Brawl that is most disturbing. Nintendo promised that Brawl was going to be the best smash game in history and is target toward the “hardcore gamer” (ref http://www.nintendolife.com/articles...ardcore_gamers) yet I have seen Nintendo do little to show this.

You mean because wavedashing is out? LOL

Reggie said that it was for the hardcore Mister-Roboto.

He also said it was coming out in December 2007.

I'm a hardcore gamer and keep up to date with all gaming news. Does that mean I give a *** about whether people get their wavedashing in Brawl? No.

2. When a company releases a sequel to a competitive game they normally seek input from pro gamers. An example of this is Bungie. They used the best Halo 2 players to ensure that this game would be deep and competitive. When Halo 3 was released everyone loved the game because of its similarities to Halo 2. Why would they NOT ask the best Melee players for input? Such actions lead me to fear the depth of this game.

Because the best melee players are not the majority. They're trying to make the game accessible to everyone, even yes, the casual crowd.

And if they were not seeking input from their fans, we would never have gotten Sonic in Brawl.

There is no way this is good. L-cancel was the fundamental difference between a pro and a noob in both 64 and melee. Without it there is no boundary and as a result the game will become completely random.

Oh bull****. Regardless of whether L-Cancel is in or out, a good player will beat a mediocre player. It is not a totally random mechanic this game runs on. It's not like we're playing Go Fish.

I hope you mean Smash competitive community, because even if Smash does not meet the competitive's level, there will still be a large Smash community. And since when did Sakurai mentioned the game was for the hardcore? This is for the Wii. The idea is to make games more accessible to people, not to limit them simply because someone has a bug up their *** about how game mechanics need to follow a strict and arbitrary standard..

First poster basically said it all ^^^

Please dont response if you dont play smash competitive.

I'm sorry but this is not a "Smash Pros ONLY" forum. Anyone who has an opinion on the Smash series can post on this forum. You have no right to tell him to not post somewhere.

I've been here for like, forever. And i'm not part of the competitive community, i could care less about tourneys. The game's sheer fun and coolness is what made me hang out around smashboards.

That's awesome. That's the way it should be, in my opinion.

That's a good thing IMHO. Wavedash was clearly not how the game was supposed to be played.

Sakurai took the glitch out because that is not how he meant his game to run. If he wanted wavedashing, he would impiment an easy button combination to do so.

Since he implimented no such combo... It is clearly an exploit.

I say that with all logic. I know how to wavedash AND how effective it can be in certain situations. However, anyone with any sort of logic can see that it was not meant to be used like it is.

Airdodging was supposed to be just that: A dodge done in mid-air. Not an animation where your character slides backward or forward.

Brawl without the majority of 'advanced' techniques has taken so long to perfect because Sakurai is FORCING everyone to play his game how it was meant to be played.

It sounds bad, but wouldn't you do the same thing if you saw people abusing the fighting engine of your game? All of the people you see playing it are playing it using glitches, exploits and the sort? I certainly would create a better game, eliminating glitches and exploits.

Brawl is just that. Melee perfected, with no exploits or glitches. (to our knowledge)

I agree. Wavedashing is most likely an exploit.

And the fact he asks if Brawl will be success or failure based on a science-****ed demo is no different from all the other topics concerning Brawl's so called 'slow down' speed.

To me the game doesn't look slower at all. In fact it runs just as fast. Players move just as fast. What I'VE observed is that the gravity was lowered a bit (players seem to be a bit more floaty, probably in tune with Sakurai's desires to have more air combat, so it takes longer for people to hit the ground. In comparison to Melee, where people dropped like stones, Brawl is a bit floatier) and now it's harder to KO people at 100%, rather it's more like 150%.

I honestly can't believe so many of you have no idea how Nintendo or game development works. They do not care about competitive players, and they do not care about the Melee competitive scene. They care about making a game that's random, wacky, and fun for as many people as possible. The second Sakurai said "Melee was too fast" it should have raised warning bells in all of your heads.

Stop being deluded. Game designers cannot possibly test games at a high enough level to see if they work as competitive games or not. Truly competitive games like Melee are released usually as an accident. Melee was not supposed to be as deep as it turned out to be.

Deal with it.

Once again. Words of the wise.

 

[FightingGameGuy]

I honestly can't believe so many of you have no idea how Nintendo or game development works. They do not care about competitive players, and they do not care about the Melee competitive scene. They care about making a game that's random, wacky, and fun for as many people as possible. The second Sakurai said "Melee was too fast" it should have raised warning bells in all of your heads.

Stop being deluded. Game designers cannot possibly test games at a high enough level to see if they work as competitive games or not. Truly competitive games like Melee are released usually as an accident. Melee was not supposed to be as deep as it turned out to be.

Deal with it.

Didn't the thread starter mention Halo 3 in his post which had a massive public beta? This video (around 2:17) shows that Capcom does care about competitive players, and even uses their input in trying to design competitive games. This may not be the way Nintendo makes game (Miyamoto famously saying he could have made Halo but doesn't make games based on what others want), but it is incorrect to extend this philosophy to all game developers.

Even if truly competitive games are "released usually as an accident" many other companies seem to be devoting much more effort to insure that their games are more likely to be those accidents that produce truly competitive games than Nintendo seems to be doing. What's wrong with dealing with it by trying to raise awareness of this fact?

 

[Mama]

Nice post. Ignore Dogenzaka though he thinks playing Smash at a competitive level is a sin lol.

I understand your fears however I don't think that its as bad as you might think. For starters, its only a demo and there could be many things that differ from the final product.

Lag canceling - is still in. Now its just different. You do the aerial and then you fast fall and that cancels the lag. In my opinion that added the most depth to this game as it made slow characters very usable (Ganondorf, Bowser, etc) and really set a gap between pros and casual players (and scrubs). Its still in just in a new form.

Directional Air Dodging - It may have helped the mind game scene a bit in Melee but I think the new momentum based air dodging will do more. You can actually attack and or jump after you do it so I think that would serve to add more depth to the game. I don't see it as losing directional air dodging, I see it as gaining the ability to act after an air dodge.

Skill will still transfer. Its the competitive players that will excel at the game. They'll have the basic advanced tactics at hand (Shffling, dash dance, pivots, etc). We simply have a new base to build upon. We've yet to sit down with the final product which isn't due for 4 more months.

I wouldn't say that a games depth is judged on consistency though. You'd be leaving far to many variables dependent on the human element. I do think that there can be a top level of players that stand above the rest though. But the lack of consistency could simply be based on the inability to play every single person in every ranking match at any given time. I say judge depth based on what can be done and the skill it takes to do these things. If everything can be done with only ten minutes of practice then its not deep. If things take a while to get down (took me about a month to get down the advance techniques and then longer to utilize them effectively) and then by learning it sets you in a whole new league from those who haven't learned then I'd say that is true depth.

Nintendo is not the one who decided to change the physics engine. It was Sakurai (not with Nintendo anymore) and his team who actually played Smash. While I agree that some things are better left unchanged, Smash is not your run of the mill fighting game. In this series the physics engine is much more pronounced because it is a 3D fighter with a ton of air play/freedom. Momentum engine is something that, in itself, would add a lot to the game. While it may change things a lot, in the end Smash is simply different from other fighters.

Its different in that each game tried to be something completely new and innovative while at the same time maintained the fundamentals so that the vets would feel at home. Street Fighter, SC, Tekken, and other fighters are all geared at the hopes of being something massively competitive while no Smash game ever was. It is for that reason that I don't expect Brawl to lose its competitive scene because if it was never the main focus why would they focus on eliminating it? They wouldn't. Smash is in a league of its own. Given a game with a bunch of basic things and then building on top of those things to become advanced.

Thats why you can't really compare it to any other fighter. Sakurai doesn't ask for consumer input outwardly. I'd say he's more like an artist that asks what you'd like to see and then draws it, rather than one that asks you what to do every so often.

Finishing up, I think its just far too early to judge whether the game is a success or failure based on a demo 4 months prior to launch. Especially seeing as this is a Smash game. (took about a year for things to start moving with Melee. Brawl is likely to take less time seeing as we're all well versed in its predecessor but at the same time I think that there will be new things to learn and styles to discover.

Note : Halo 3 is closer to a balance between 2 and 1. Imo Halo 2's multiplayer was garbage. A friend of mine sold his two days after he bought it because of that. Bungie was looking to balance the pros and cons of both which is typical with any trilogy

1st - success

2nd - Try something new on the established fan base.

2rd - build upon the pros and cons of the first two to find a balance and perfect the formula.

 

[Mama]

God forbid Nintendo wants a game for the Wii that is accessible to anyone that can pick up and play.



You mean because wavedashing is out? LOL

No try reading the whole post. The least you could do is read his paragraph and not expose just how small minded you can be.

Oh bull****. Regardless of whether L-Cancel is in or out, a good player will beat a mediocre player. It is not a totally random mechanic this game runs on. It's not like we're playing Go Fish.

I agree for the most part. And Lag Canceling is still in just done differently.

I'm sorry but this is not a "Smash Pros ONLY" forum. Anyone who has an opinion on the Smash series can post on this forum. You have no right to tell him to not post somewhere.

And yet I've seen you do the exact same thing. Hippo crit

 

[Darqion]

L cancelling is in no way a real advanced technique.. why ? it is not advanced.. You cant do alot with it.. You can onyl do something with the time it grants.

A move/tech that requires only one keypress, and is far from anywhere near hard to learn, is a tedious thing to have in game, and since you would be using it in most if not all your arial combat, removing it will have 0 impact, save for the people who didnt know about it, or lack the reflexes( tho the timeframe is big enough)

 

[Hydde]

L cancelling is in no way a real advanced technique.. why ? it is not advanced.. You cant do alot with it.. You can onyl do something with the time it grants.

A move/tech that requires only one keypress, and is far from anywhere near hard to learn, is a tedious thing to have in game, and since you would be using it in most if not all your arial combat, removing it will have 0 impact, save for the people who didnt know about it, or lack the reflexes( tho the timeframe is big enough)

???

L cancel unlcocks an vast possibilities to combos.

When istarted using L cancel, my game changed drstically.

IMO L cancel is by far the most important advaced tech,,, much more than the WD and all the others were

 

[messiahfreak2000]

I know you're already done talking about this particular thing, but I just wanted to clear a few things up first

"All the fancy stuff". I think you're trivialising the advantages these techs give you when you employ them properly. You talk like tournament players know nothing outside of practicing these techs. I can assure you that all serious players focus on their abilities to "work in any situation" as you say, equally as much as the skilled non-technical players you mention.

So in the end, both players are equal in strategy and thinking, but the technical player is much greater in their speed, combos, and general knowledge of the game.

Techs aren't used just to be "fancy'. Get it?

i didn't mean to trivialize. i actually respect those guys skills, knowing the amount time that was apparently put in. i'm actually taking to watching the videos to observe how those guys play to see how to beat such moves. forgive me if i seemed to be putting down techs. i'm just saying its not the most important thing in the world to win, so in regards to brawl, no worries at the apparent lack/inclusion of techs.

 

[valoem]

Ummm, Sakurai is not Iwata, big difference. For all we know, Iwata was talking out his *** anyway to help bolster the game.

No, competitive players do not enjoy similarities, you do. Change is good, not bad. And please get off this, "SmashBoards.com wouldn't be here if it weren't for us" drama. SmashBoards is around because, regardless of its level of competitiveness, it is a fun game of which the owner, Gideon enjoyed. Gideon had the opportunity many times to pull the plug on these boards earlier on in its life, but didn't, so please can the 'holier than though' attitude. The competitive scene did not 'make or break' these boards. This thread, much like others, fails.

Ironically competitive players agree that this is a soild thread. Get a grip on yourself and stop stepping into matters which you have no knowledge on. You are not a competitive player and didnt read anything I wrote. Competitive players enjoy change and so do I, but when a game becomes competitive no high level player welcomes drastic change examples of this exist throughout other fighting games (tekken, sf, etc.).

Also I didnt write a term paper there is no thesis im not saying anything about brawl only the warning signs for COMPETITIVE players. I also cited my sources and when the **** did I say anything about Sakurai? You did. I said NINTENDO said this game was gear toward the hardcore gamer.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Your egotistical manner disgusts me and makes others think that everyone in the back room is a pretentious asswipe. In fact another backroomer had to post here just to show not everyone in there is like you. Your 23 grow the **** up stop living in your parent's basement and post like a **** just because you are a broomer its not that great an achievement for someone your age. It's relatively clear that I put a good deal of thought into this thread. Stop categorizing everyone in Brawl discussion in fact I rarely come here. Ive seen dumb threads here, but just because some threads have little thought doesnt mean they all do. The only one with a 'holier than though' attitude is you.

EDIT: Also did I mention that the depth of melee led it to be ranked as the one of the Greatest Competitive Games of All Time?

http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/165239&page=1&query=node/165239&pagenumber=1

 

[LostAddict]

Augh.
How about you actually wait for the game to come out before you start crying out:

DOOM! RUINED!

Seriously.

 

[2007]

Augh.
How about you actually wait for the game to come out before you start crying out:

DOOM! RUINED!

Seriously.

QFT.
@ everyone else:
you actually think that the demo is the real thing?
that was most likely a BETA, if not, then a prototype BETA. I guarentee that there will be changes made between that game and the real deal. if not, I'll literally eat my Wii.
=2007=

 

[DrakeRowan]

Drama.

How come all threads like this always end up Casual Vs. Hardcore play?

EDIT: Even though logic is NOT supposed to exist on smashboards (lol); once again, I have to agree with Mama. He (she?) most of the time is right.

 

[Stryk9]

yea L cancel is easily one of the hugest diferences between a bad player and a good one. It just unlocked so much more potential. I would have been happy with anything brawl did as long as they left in Lcancel

so now im pissed and worried about how much was lost in not allowing arial to be brought out at any point in the jump.

 

[Fonz]

I'm no Ken but I consider myself a fairly long-time competitive player, and I do not agree with the concern addressed in this thread. Change is good. I took 2 years to switch from 64 to melee because I didn't like the new feel. Eventually I got over it and now I love melee much more than I ever loved 64. They haven't let me down before. Despite the fact that things have obviously changed and some tactics have been removed, I'm confident that where old techniques were removed, new ones will be replaced. The removal of directional air dodges and l-canceling initially concerned me, but after reading more from competitive players who attended E for All and watching the videos posted, I couldn't be happier with the way Brawl's prospects for the future. I will be shocked if brawl isn't more balanced and if it doesn't allow for more viable options in numerous situations. Let's just wait and see =)

 

[valoem]

I'm no Ken but I consider myself a fairly long-time competitive player, and I do not agree with the concern addressed in this thread. Change is good. I took 2 years to switch from 64 to melee because I didn't like the new feel. Eventually I got over it and now I love melee much more than I ever loved 64. They haven't let me down before. Despite the fact that things have obviously changed and some tactics have been removed, I'm confident that where old techniques were removed, new ones will be replaced. The removal of directional air dodges and l-canceling initially concerned me, but after reading more from competitive players who attended E for All and watching the videos posted, I couldn't be happier with the way Brawl's prospects for the future. I will be shocked if brawl isn't more balanced and if it doesn't allow for more viable options in numerous situations. Let's just wait and see =)

Keep in mind melee turned out to be really good a better and deep game than 64. Also there is no competitive scene in 64 so people really didnt need to worry.

 

[Mr.C]

Ive allways been a fan of the sries of smash but the abusing of the L-cancel which is a glitch (AKA a mistake) is kinda weird to be that someone might be upset about it. Thats my opinion. If it wasnt discovered, well, it would plainly be left to be secret. The game was meant to be without the glitch but you get around it easly i guess. You have to use it if others do to or else, advantage for me as a player is useless

You're ********.

Buy the game...read the manual.....they explain how to do L canceling.... it was meant to be in the game.

 

[konoha107]

As said many times before, there is no need for drama. The game will have a competitive scene, no matter what. It will be fun. Stop being whinny *****s and grow the **** up. This thread fails, as said before. I really have no power here, but I would advise people not to post here anymore. And don't critisize me for pretending I have power, or pretending I'm a moderator, they hate this thread too.

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Ironically competitive players agree that this is a soild thread. Get a grip on yourself and stop stepping into matters which you have no knowledge on. You are not a competitive player and didnt read anything I wrote. Competitive players enjoy change and so do I, but when a game becomes competitive no high level player welcomes drastic change examples of this exist throughout other fighting games (tekken, sf, etc.).

Also I didnt write a term paper there is no thesis im not saying anything about brawl only the warning signs for COMPETITIVE players. I also cited my sources and when the **** did I say anything about Sakurai? You did. I said NINTENDO said this game was gear toward the hardcore gamer.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Your egotistical manner disgusts me and makes others think that everyone in the back room is a pretentious asswipe. In fact another backroomer had to post here just to show not everyone in there is like you. Your 23 grow the **** up stop living in your parent's basement and post like a **** just because you are a broomer its not that great an achievement for someone your age. It's relatively clear that I put a good deal of thought into this thread. Stop categorizing everyone in Brawl discussion in fact I rarely come here. Ive seen dumb threads here, but just because some threads have little thought doesnt mean they all do. The only one with a 'holier than though' attitude is you.

EDIT: Also did I mention that the depth of melee led it to be ranked as the one of the Greatest Competitive Games of All Time?

http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/165239&page=1&query=node/165239&pagenumber=1

Right, because clearly anybody who doesn't agree with you must not be competitive, please remove the stick out of your ass. You extrapolated a very well thought out description of me based on my age, assumed I lived with my parents and also assume since I am in the Back Room I am somehow pretentious, sorry, but you can't throw insults like that and then tell me I am putting words in your mouth. I simply asked you if Sakurai ever mentioned the game was for the "hardcore" to which you replied with a statement made by a different Nintendo employee. Sakurai works with Nintendo, not for it, so don't even try to lump them together in the same manner.

And no I did not put words in your mouth. When you make statements like "SmashBoards wouldn't be what it is today" bullshit, it just goes to show your egotistical, not to mention elitist, attitude which is prevalent among some stubborn competitors such as yourself. Let me make this clear, "The competitive community DOES NOT MAKE SMASHBOARDS WHAT IT IS".

You can not base the game off a demo in the manner you are doing, it just logically is unsound. Stop trying to tell people they can't have opinions because you think they aren't competitive. Not everyone in the competitive community agrees with you.

Warning signs, seriously? When Smash 64 was still around no one was crapping their pants because of a technique, they were crapping their pants because the game looked so awesome. Please stop saying the sky is falling without proving the sky is actually falling. You'll do us all a big favor that way.

 

[slikvik]

I'm no Ken but I consider myself a fairly long-time competitive player, and I do not agree with the concern addressed in this thread. Change is good. I took 2 years to switch from 64 to melee because I didn't like the new feel. Eventually I got over it and now I love melee much more than I ever loved 64. They haven't let me down before. Despite the fact that things have obviously changed and some tactics have been removed, I'm confident that where old techniques were removed, new ones will be replaced. The removal of directional air dodges and l-canceling initially concerned me, but after reading more from competitive players who attended E for All and watching the videos posted, I couldn't be happier with the way Brawl's prospects for the future. I will be shocked if brawl isn't more balanced and if it doesn't allow for more viable options in numerous situations. Let's just wait and see =)

Best post of the thread. Fonz is too good...however i will finally beat you in brawl

 

[Mr.C]

Misto you suck.. go nooberize a forum besides smashboards.