FGD~ Time to get SHTL done

[Sovereign]

SHAD requires you to:

1) Place yourself into the air (rarely a good thing)
2) Place yourself above an enemy (this is usually a horrible idea)

Thing is, Fox's AD frames last his entire SH, so he's completely safe while doing it, and can come out of it, with an Utilt.(The usual follow-up made by some Fox players)

 

[Asdioh]

SHAD requires you to:

1) Place yourself into the air (rarely a good thing)
2) Place yourself above an enemy (this is usually a horrible idea)

Fox's SHAD is amazing though.

How exactly do you perform DACIT? I remember seeing that Ike thing a long time ago, and maybe Ganondorf in that "super ganon item time!" or whatever video, but I don't remember how to do it.

Isn't jump-cancelled throwing something every character can do? I don't use it much except maybe with TL but I suppose it could be useful for bananas.

Fox's Nair is great. I'll do SH retreating fastfall Nairs if I'm afraid of certain characters running up to me.

 

[SCOTU]

i don't actually know what a JCT is. Also SHAD is the ****ing stupidest acronym to ever come from the smash community.

 

[SuSa]

JCT = Jump--> throw

DACIT --> DACUS but throw an item instead of usmash =P

 

[Sovereign]

i don't actually know what a JCT is. Also SHAD is the ****ing stupidest acronym to ever come from the smash community.

JCT = Jump-Canceled Toss

SHAD, being the dumbest acronym is meh... I'm like water, and just go with the flow.

 

[Cherry64]

Yeah, that has legit options out of it. However you ahve to be running first so if you do it, it is kind of telegraphed, but you could do it a few times a match do to shield grabbing and stuff

 

[Sovereign]

Yeah, that has legit options out of it. However you ahve to be running first so if you do it, it is kind of telegraphed, but you could do it a few times a match do to shield grabbing and stuff

Most Diddy's will expect you to simply loft the banana at their face. You also have multiple options while holding a banana. I find it to be the one item that creates more options for characters rather than take away like some do.

 

[Cherry64]

Guess who just found a lock!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I did. You can infraact me if this? Isn't legit!

K. So if the banana is behind them, use FTilt. it knocks them back but keeps them on their feet. So they Auto trip, and you can keep doing this, unless they roll behind you, but hey theres some free grab/shine/drill shenanigans.

 

[Sovereign]

Guess who just found a lock!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I did. You can infraact me if this? Isn't legit!

K. So if the banana is behind them, use FTilt. it knocks them back but keeps them on their feet. So they Auto trip, and you can keep doing this, unless they roll behind you, but hey theres some free grab/shine/drill shenanigans.

Looks good on paper, but let's see it on video. I can see it being done, but I want to actually see it happening. Also, what is this MU for you guys?

 

[Cherry64]

Looks good on paper, but let's see it on video. I can see it being done, but I want to actually see it happening. Also, what is this MU for you guys?

I personally suck at handling diddy's. But uh I'd say for people that aren't too bad at it, 60-40, maybe 65-35 for diddy? I played it once and got rocked so I switched back to samus.

 

[Sovereign]

I honestly held an opinion of it being around 45:55 Diddy. I didn't think it was that bad for him. I mean, he does have a reflector.

 

[Cherry64]

I suck at the diddy match remember hahaha. Theory crafting here it could very well be 5-:50 if both players know what they are doing.

 

[Sovereign]

I see. Seems like Asdioh just has some work to do, when it comes to this MU, then. It's tough, but Fox kills so **** early. Usmash not being that hard to land at all, especially coming out on like frame 6. Naners and Dair? You've got tons of setups to land it, too.

Camp lasers effectively, while stinging Diddy for what damage you can manage, and strike when it matters. Don't go for gimps, since it's most likely not gonna happen, and you've got this.

Sound about right?

 

[Asdioh]

yeah but... I don't even remember what happened, I just got comboed like mad whenever he got close. I did drastically better with Kirby, just aircamp the whole time, which bores the hell out of me, and Kirby really isn't that good ;_;

My biggest problem with either character is getting kills. Sure, Fox's Upsmash kills really early, but if they don't want to get hit by it, you're not going to be hitting them unless you do a lot of reading/baiting. Same with Kirby's Fsmash, but Kirby has it worse. The only reason I got 2-0'd by both the Diddy and Yoshi is because I couldn't get the final kill when it mattered. I had a chance to win a game against each of them, with them being last stock last hit, but I couldn't do it, and this ALWAYS happens to me. Baiting kills isn't really something you can practice by yourself, is it?

 

[Sovereign]

No, but finding other ways to kill outside of the obvious ways is.

 

[crifer]

Diddy is not that bad, imo.

Move a lot in the air, preferably on platforms,
watch his nana patterns (especially if the player pulls them out= Does he catch them with Z? with an aerial? maybe he will sideB?).

If you land and he tries to punish your landing with a nana, shine or shield.
If you shield = catch the nana with a air dodge, Z or aerial after the nana is in the air.

If you have a nana, try to camp him with lasers and force him to approach ( I really love that :D). If you throw the item with a jump cancelled item throw at diddy his options are limited.
If the nana hits his shield he can catch it = u punish with usmash.
if he stays in his shield = boost pivot grab (love that out of jump camcelled item throw)
often Diddy´s roll back which you can punish by running through his roll and punish with usmash.

I say it´s 45:55 or 50:50 for diddy.

 

[4Biddin]

SHAD requires you to:

1) Place yourself into the air (rarely a good thing)
2) Place yourself above an enemy (this is usually a horrible idea)

Lol do you play the game alot?

Or are you just putting it logically?

But yea foxes SHAD id GDLK

 

[Conviction]

Anyone interested in actually advancing Fox? Like helping with my punishment table that failed horribly went I posted it here?

 

[jbandrew]

Foxes need to use run up sheild grab more. It's a good option that catches alot of people offguard... even when they expect it its good cuz fox is so fast!

 

[4Biddin]

Anyone interested in actually advancing Fox? Like helping with my punishment table that failed horribly went I posted it here?

You see everything I learned with Fox was on my on except for maybe like my first week of using him.

I think you really have to just play the character and show it in tourneys to advance the characters then people will follow suit.

But anyways I have been working on having a punish for everything so I'll try and help if you want it.

EDIT: jbandrew knows a good strat I do that all the time fox is sooooo fast and you can punish people who like to just throw out attacks all the time

 

[Conviction]

Ehhhh I am learning mostly on my own but there certain things I am incapable of doing by myself such as working data and having test subjects. Some of these projects that I try to do is not only for the benefit of myself but the for the community as well. I keep looking around at these "could have been useful threads" that I see. I got an idea like why dont just have a like Fox Skype meeting (every week) or something so we can get something done and we could assign jobs. I'll gladly take down notes and documents things and such.

 

[Sovereign]

jbandrew knows a good strat I do that all the time fox is sooooo fast and you can punish people who like to just throw out attacks all the time

Those particular people should lose without much thought, anyway.

 

[4Biddin]

Those particular people should lose without much thought, anyway.

Tell that to mk mains lol and gw players

Edit: and marth players who rely on using zoning moves alot

 

[Sovereign]

Tell that to mk mains lol and gw players

That's kinda how I lost to Asdioh way back at one of Ren's tournaments. I went MK and threw attacks out, not knowing Fox's attack priorities, assuming that MK couldn't be outprioritized by him. Just this Saturday, I played him with MK, and won, so I know I've overcome that stereotype. And yeah, GnW's have that bad - Smash Cycle.

 

[Conviction]

Tell that to mk mains lol and gw players

Edit: and marth players who rely on using zoning moves alot

I LOVE PUNISHING MARTHS WHO THINK THEY CAN WALL ME ALL DAY!!!

lol but really I do.


EDIT2:

Ehhhh I am learning mostly on my own but there certain things I am incapable of doing by myself such as working data and having test subjects. Some of these projects that I try to do is not only for the benefit of myself but the for the community as well. I keep looking around at these "could have been useful threads" that I see. I got an idea like why dont just have a like Fox Skype meeting (every week) or something so we can get something done and we could assign jobs. I'll gladly take down notes and documents things and such.

Thoughts on this quote? Could we make it happen?

 

[4Biddin]

Ehhhh I am learning mostly on my own but there certain things I am incapable of doing by myself such as working data and having test subjects. Some of these projects that I try to do is not only for the benefit of myself but the for the community as well. I keep looking around at these "could have been useful threads" that I see. I got an idea like why dont just have a like Fox Skype meeting (every week) or something so we can get something done and we could assign jobs. I'll gladly take down notes and documents things and such.

Yea ill do that fox skype sounds legit

I've been debating on wheather or not I wanna make a mix up thead because I have sooo many just don't know if its worth making

 

[Conviction]

Yea ill do that fox skype sounds legit

I've been debating on wheather or not I wanna make a mix up thead because I have sooo many just don't know if its worth making

Every bit of information helps. I'm gonna hit KillerJawz with this idea and see if we can make a thread for this Fox Skype thing. Also it gonna need to consist of more than just me and you XD


So I'm sure I can get
Light
NAKAT
Uzi
and with some convincing TKD in on this.

Also I could ask MJG to get Zeton to get on this.

 

[4Biddin]

Every bit of information helps. I'm gonna hit KillerJawz with this idea and see if we can make a thread for this Fox Skype thing. Also it gonna need to consist of more than just me and you XD


So I'm sure I can get
Light
NAKAT
Uzi
and with some convincing TKD in on this.

Also I could ask MJG to get Zeton to get on this.

.

Sounds good to me I'm all for it

 

[Sovereign]

I've been debating on wheather or not I wanna make a mix up thead because I have sooo many just don't know if its worth making

It seems like a good idea, but I dunno. Mix-ups are personal preference-based, but I suppose letting your Fox brethren know other options wouldn't be bad. Start with the one I told you to use against fast fallers, or those that attack a lot when coming down from the air.

Uthrow - wait - chase for regrab or attack/kill.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

lovin da shiz out of the title itt

 

[4Biddin]

It seems like a good idea, but I dunno. Mix-ups are personal preference-based, but I suppose letting your Fox brethren know other options wouldn't be bad. Start with the one I told you to use against fast fallers, or those that attack a lot when coming down from the air.

Uthrow - wait - chase for regrab or attack/kill.

Yea I do that sometimes now thanks for that.
My bnb for uthrow though is bair nair punishes since people are likily to dair or air dodge with pretty mush any char and bair does hella good percent

 

[Conviction]

Yea the more mix-ups the better, and we should also work on figuring out options when get put in certain situations we won't be stuck be a seemingly "impassable" barrier.

Oh the Uthrow chase thing idk at what precents to use it, I gotten used to using Dthrow for that type thing, what precent do you use it at?

 

[Sovereign]

Oh the Uthrow chase thing idk at what precents to use it, I gotten used to using Dthrow for that type thing, what precent do you use it at?

Best done on Fast Fallers at low to mid percents. 0%-60% After that do what you want. Uthrow keeps'em in your range and allows you to position yourself where you feel or are advantageous. For me, another Uthrow read. Uthrow chains look sexier than actual CGs.

 

[Conviction]

Best done on Fast Fallers at low to mid percents. 0%-60% After that do what you want. Uthrow keeps'em in your range and allows you to position yourself where you feel or are advantageous. For me, another Uthrow read. Uthrow chains look sexier than actual CGs.

It looks sexier when you Pivot Boost grab too

Ok I was wondering cause around mid-precents it might not be useful.

Ohhh what do you guys think about using Illusion like Falcos do? Its been helping me so far.

 

[crifer]

Ohhh what do you guys think about using Illusion like Falcos do? Its been helping me so far.

Should be used more often of Fox players out of a short hop as low as possible,
but our illusion is not nearly as good as Falcos. Don´t overuse it but it´s a nice mix-up ;-)

 

[Conviction]

Should be used more often of Fox players out of a short hop as low as possible,
but our illusion is not nearly as good as Falcos. Don´t overuse it but it´s a nice mix-up ;-)

Ok glad that we think the same.

Also have you guys ever used illusion to escape bad situations? I mean when you are in the air, just to reset positions?

EDIT: Crifer do they have Skype in Germany?

 

[4Biddin]

Should be used more often of Fox players out of a short hop as low as possible,
but our illusion is not nearly as good as Falcos. Don´t overuse it but it´s a nice mix-up ;-)

OMG its just like falcos just a lil harder to time but I use this shiz alot more now good stuff its a nice mix up like you said.

I might go ahead and start a mix up thread it's just soooooooo many I have and it'll be alot to write

EDIT: oh here is how I would go about using u throw in a tourney first match first stock xIblisx

1.) u throw/ wait / punish attempted attacks coming down or any AD's with another grab.
2.) once they get conditioned for regrab they most likely stop ADing right away(this is when the follow ups come in)
3.) U throw they don't AD/ Full hop nair/ fast fall dash shield grab again
4.) U throw again(just for the lulz)/ now full hop bair them(it beats most dairs since it comes from the side)/fast fall to cancel
5.)Illusion them to pop them back into the air/Full hop nair fast fall

then its just reading from there on out

 

[Sovereign]

OMG its just like falcos just a lil harder to time but I use this shiz alot more now good stuff its a nice mix up like you said.

I might go ahead and start a mix up thread it's just soooooooo many I have and it'll be alot to write

Just list all of Fox's moves, then make sublists of moves that you can potentially follow the initial move up with, and describe it in-depth on why or how you'd do that.

 

[4Biddin]

Just list all of Fox's moves, then make sublists of moves that you can potentially follow the initial move up with, and describe it in-depth on why or how you'd do that.

Hmm thats a good idea

 

[Sovereign]

Whenever I come down to Purdue, again, I can help you with the organization of the thread.