I already said this, no need to re-iterate it.
No.
The primary issue with MetaKnight is that he does have a broken aspect to him which reduces the competitiveness of the game significantly, primarily, his ledge game.
Many attempts were placed on a global scale to hinder his ledge gameplay; let's not lie and say its ledge grabbing as a whole either; but they still cold not hinder it due to his capabilities to avoid the ledge grab limit entirely.
Let alone that there were many, many, many issues with the lgl as well.
This, compupld with many different changes and suggestions concerning the ruleset concerning the character was a clear indication that the character was causing problems.
Considering this continued for over 3 years, and his dominance only increased, provided an indication that banning the character was more likely the best solution, rather tha continously creating strife within the gaming community with faulty rule sets.
After all, the ones who only truly endorsed the terrible LGL idea were staunchly anti-ban and had made it clear they had no desire to change their stance.
Except that the Japanese players beat their own Japanese players at the end using MetaKnight.
So the number one player who is Japanese, beat his fellow Japanese player's, using MetaKnight. See the problem? You're essentially trying to draw an anti-ban conclusion, despite the fact that it is still MetaKnight who won.
The logic is too great of a stretch because your argument can be used against you.
You say the japanese have an advanced metagame and in their country he doesn't dominate, but then again, they came to what is equivalent to a world class tournament and won with MetaKnight.
See the problem? It's a dual edged argument.
Let alone that there is no method of proving flat out that the Japanese are far ahead in the metagame based off one tournament, especially as their ruleset is different from our own.
It isn't the case with MvC2 where the United States dominated the Japanese more often than once a year.
No.
FOr one, the issue in itself has been discussed for over three years.
So I would appreciate it if you did not insinuate the community has being so quick to jump for a ban, when it has been very, very conservative in terms of its views on stages and characters.
What would the longer time do exactly?
In fact, what would be the point in changing the timer?
In fact, why are we changing the ruleset for the sake of ONE character.
You do not enact global changes for a single character.
That was part of the problem for the last three years in the first place.
For three years, people searched for an answer to metaKnight.
This went from characters, to the extreme case of the LGL and yet it was still an issue.
You can't simply say "oh hey guys look, Apex, a Japanese MetaKnight won, but they don't ban MetaKnight, clearly, this means we are behind in the metagame and that MetaKnight is perfectly legal! After all, in their tournaments he doesn't dominate!"
When you look at such an argument with no prior knowledge on the issue, it makes one ask, "Are you that desperate to have MetaKnight legal that you would use such a bizarre argument?"
No one has solved the issue regarding the ledge problem by the way. I've been waiting for a very, very long time and still no answer.
Oh christ...
Those stages many believe (as this very topic suggests) shouldn't be legal anyways with or without MK.
Primarily because many of those individual's simply do not like the stages.
Those stages are perfectly fine to play on without MetaKnight dominating them.
there has been noa rgument made against them outside of MetaKnight being legal.
It does. Nothing has been shown that Brinstar and RC have such ane ffect on gameplay as to make skill less important.
Ness is a bad character.
this entire statement sounds like on big QQ over the stage and over the hard work that's done by the under dog character.
They are an underdog for a reason.
Name them.
I dare you to cite DK vs Olimar.
Or to cite G&W.
In fact, placing a global rule insinuates that there is a global problem.
Planking is not a global problem.
Ergo, it shouldn't be global.
Furthermore many of the power planking games are matchup specific and the result of a character's inherent flaws.
If Pit is gliding under the stage, its not an issue. Pit has many flaws and can be countered.
When MetaKnight does it, there is a difference.
Just because a character is capable of doing something, does not insinuate the tactic in itself is broken.
Many character's can rush under the stage, doesn't mean they aren't terribly vlnerable doing so.
The behavior of items is an uncontrollable random.
Thusly they are shut off to prevent the loss of skill as a requirement in a tournament.
There is a difference between banning items and then trying to limit grabbing the ledge which is a basic part of gameplay.
It isn't refuted at all.
The behavior of items as well as the fact that some of them provide an extreme advantage to character's resulted in them being banned.
Unless of course you believe we should play with smash balls.
Provide the exact quote and provide the data that contradicts the year's worth of data that john collected.
Falco cannot counter planking very well.
Falco doesn't have great air speed.
Falco cannot change direction in the air easily.
It's easy to cite weaknesses and then ignore the strengths that make up for them.
You might as well try and say that Wario loses to Ganon due to being death grabbed.
He admitted it was speculation.
Sooo moot point.
If a million people notice you've been bickering about MetaKnight and have been editing the ruleset to counter MetaKnight, and still failt o dos o, I imagine the feelings regarding the character would indeed support pro-ban, which was his point.
And I refuted yours.
I ignored parts I agreed upon/did not need to address
[/QUOTE]
How does Japan counter MKs ledge game?
If MK is so over powered and Japan seems beyond us in the metagame then why didn't they ban him yet?
My argument can not be used against me. It has nothing to do with the character who won. It has to do with the country. They won with MK. But MK is allowed to win in my book.
Your confusing best character with unfair character and I have said time and time again he is not unfair, but yes he is the best and those two are not the same. They can be but they don't HAVE to be.
If MK was so overpowered then how come he is legal in Japans more advanced and more competitive metagame?
Japan did something right. Perhaps it is in there timer? Perhaps it is in there stage list? Perhaps it is in there LGL if they have one? Some how there rules kept a competitively viable game with all the characters. So much so that when they came here and had a larger stagelist they still whooped us. There metagame allowed them to increase and become better players and still kept MK viable. It is superior in results and perhaps even in fairness (assuming like me you feel a character ban should be a last resort). Why wouldn't you emulate it?
Ban him if you want. And make up any bogus rules as to why. Like hey, if a character makes 40+ percent of the money they must be banned. But then honestly,
We are just a community that Johns, not one that tries to actually get better. Metagames should promote growth not fake falsified growth. Our current metagame is at a standstill, but Japans is ahead. And I feel it would be logical to emulate them or work off what they have done before banning a character.
