Falcons current metagame - in detail

[Player-3]

Yeah, @all the people defending falcon punch:

..The fact is there are safer options, thus better options present at all times. And yes, prediction is a part of brawl, but alot of those moves who need prediction/mindgames can be used for punishing without having to start said move before the opponent starts the move you want to punish with said move.

And player-3, no, counter can be activated after the opponents move starts. Not with all moves, but with alot of moves.

Falcon punch is that bad. In theory and in practice. falcon punching 7 people in a tourny? You shouldnt even attempt falcon punches in tourny. ever.

Yes, a falcon punch 'pays off when it lands', and this is what makes you guys blind it seems. As it will not land in a tournament setting. It wont. It is soooooo easy to avoid with infinite airdodges, DI, faster attacks etc.

In short: You will not land a falcon punch in a tournament setting. Nor should you ever rely on it, or even attempt it.

and in a way falcon punch can punish, but only moves who start after you start the falcon punch, wich requires the opponent to screw up, so cannot be used as a pro falcon arguement in a matchup discussion, it doesnt help falcon, it just wont work etc. etc.

And if it does work, (IF), you were ******* lucky, and should thank god. twice.
And then yell at him for putting the stupid idea of attempting a falcon punch in a tourny match into your brain.

I dont even understand how one can even think of defending the falcon punch..

Let me put it this way:
MK's will sooner Dsmash than Fsmash. Because Fsmash has some lag, they'll choose moves with little/less lag.

For falcon these moves are Bair, Uair, Nair, jab etc.
The best falcon is the most safe falcon. The least punishable falcon. The falcon with the least openings. And falcon already sucks when you only use quick(er) moves.
One should never. Ever. use a falcon punch in a tourny match.

Like I said, falcon punches are for friendly matches.

so your saying my falcon punch success ratio (when i use, i hit) of about 99%, is bad? (the only one in a tourny match that i havent been safe is when i traded hits, he died, i survived so i count it as a 1% fail)

i almost NEVER use it.
i only use it on... say Zeldas recovery, and other situations

im not stupid, and i told people that falcon punch should almost never be used in a tourny match

i was just saying

 

[Kishin]

Yeah, @all the people defending falcon punch:

..The fact is there are safer options, thus better options present at all times. And yes, prediction is a part of brawl, but alot of those moves who need prediction/mindgames can be used for punishing without having to start said move before the opponent starts the move you want to punish with said move.

And player-3, no, counter can be activated after the opponents move starts. Not with all moves, but with alot of moves.

Falcon punch is that bad. In theory and in practice. falcon punching 7 people in a tourny? You shouldnt even attempt falcon punches in tourny. ever.

Yes, a falcon punch 'pays off when it lands', and this is what makes you guys blind it seems. As it will not land in a tournament setting. It wont. It is soooooo easy to avoid with infinite airdodges, DI, faster attacks etc.

In short: You will not land a falcon punch in a tournament setting. Nor should you ever rely on it, or even attempt it.

and in a way falcon punch can punish, but only moves who start after you start the falcon punch, wich requires the opponent to screw up, so cannot be used as a pro falcon arguement in a matchup discussion, it doesnt help falcon, it just wont work etc. etc.

And if it does work, (IF), you were ******* lucky, and should thank god. twice.
And then yell at him for putting the stupid idea of attempting a falcon punch in a tourny match into your brain.

I dont even understand how one can even think of defending the falcon punch..

Let me put it this way:
MK's will sooner Dsmash than Fsmash. Because Fsmash has some lag, they'll choose moves with little/less lag.

For falcon these moves are Bair, Uair, Nair, jab etc.
The best falcon is the most safe falcon. The least punishable falcon. The falcon with the least openings. And falcon already sucks when you only use quick(er) moves.
One should never. Ever. use a falcon punch in a tourny match.

Like I said, falcon punches are for friendly matches.

Falcon punch is pretty viable in a doubles tourney.

imo, Falcon punch for out spacing a ledge get up attack, a really laggy move(ganon u-tilt, etc.) or a shield break. A Falcon Punch could also be used for predicting a tether recovery. It is indeed highly risky but it has a few situations where it's actually somewhat viable.

 

[Player-3]

falcon Punch Is Pretty Viable In A Doubles Tourney.

Lol Lolololol
Nononono

Unless Your Womboing Never Press The B Button In A Teams Match
For Gods Sake Dont Do It

 

[Kishin]

Lol Lolololol
Nononono

Unless Your Womboing Never Press The B Button In A Teams Match
For Gods Sake Dont Do It

Not even for recovering? Or a raptor boost spike? If your partner can grab someone then Falcon punch them.

 

[Zeallyx]

Not even for recovering? Or a raptor boost spike? If your partner can grab someone then Falcon punch them.

The other team has two characters too, you know..

they're not gonna wait till you punch their teammate..

 

[Player-3]

Not even for recovering? Or a raptor boost spike? If your partner can grab someone then Falcon punch them.

Raptor boost isnt falcon punch, when i said never hit b button i meant falcon punch


And teammate grabbing + punch = womboing

 

[Kishin]

The other team has two characters too, you know..

they're not gonna wait till you punch their teammate..

It has it's moments either when the other opponent is knocked far away, died, etc.

Raptor boost isnt falcon punch, when i said never hit b button i meant falcon punch


And teammate grabbing + punch = womboing

I understand that you meant by b button you meant neutral b but I was just knit picking at your terminology as all.

I did not no the common terminology for that was referred to as womboing. You know what would REALLY be impressive in a doubles match is a 'true' sacred combo with 2 Falcons. Falcon1 sweet knee -> Falcon2 Falcon punch would be the most epic thing in brawl possible.

 

[Player-3]

I did not no the common terminology for that was referred to as womboing. You know what would REALLY be impressive in a doubles match is a 'true' sacred combo with 2 Falcons. Falcon1 sweet knee -> Falcon2 Falcon punch would be the most epic thing in brawl possible.

Womboing = Wombo comboing

search wombo combo on youtube..

 

[Noodlehead]

Yeah, @all the people defending falcon punch:

..The fact is there are safer options, thus better options present at all times. And yes, prediction is a part of brawl, but alot of those moves who need prediction/mindgames can be used for punishing without having to start said move before the opponent starts the move you want to punish with said move.

there are always safer options but just because it's safer does not make it necessarily better. falcon punch takes technical skill, if you know when to use it and how to use it then you are set. falcon punch is bad but it is not as bad as your making sound, you are underestimating it.

And player-3, no, counter can be activated after the opponents move starts. Not with all moves, but with alot of moves.

Falcon punch is that bad. In theory and in practice. falcon punching 7 people in a tourny? You shouldnt even attempt falcon punches in tourny. ever.

uhh, never? p3 your too good man. learn the ways of the falcon punch

Yes, a falcon punch 'pays off when it lands', and this is what makes you guys blind it seems. As it will not land in a tournament setting. It wont. It is soooooo easy to avoid with infinite airdodges, DI, faster attacks etc.

In short: You will not land a falcon punch in a tournament setting. Nor should you ever rely on it, or even attempt it.

yes, it does pay off when it lands. although it's easy to avoid will everyone always avoid it?
no, people are not perfect they will not react perfectly everytime. to higher the percentage of landing the punch use setups, baits, mindgames, and crap. anyways your saying it will never land and nor should you attempt it. p3 proves you wrong on that one, and you should really try to make the most of your moves. a good player always knows his "moveset"

and in a way falcon punch can punish, but only moves who start after you start the falcon punch, wich requires the opponent to screw up, so cannot be used as a pro falcon arguement in a matchup discussion, it doesnt help falcon, it just wont work etc. etc.

And if it does work, (IF), you were ******* lucky, and should thank god. twice.
And then yell at him for putting the stupid idea of attempting a falcon punch in a tourny match into your brain.

if you land the falcon punch it could be because you got lucky or you set it up right. just like the person a few posts above me said ike sets up his fsmash. falcon punch is really not just all luck. there are many ways to set falcon punch *praises wogrim's falcon punch guide*

I dont even understand how one can even think of defending the falcon punch..

why are you hating on the most epic move in the game

Let me put it this way:
MK's will sooner Dsmash than Fsmash. Because Fsmash has some lag, they'll choose moves with little/less lag.

For falcon these moves are Bair, Uair, Nair, jab etc.
The best falcon is the most safe falcon. The least punishable falcon. The falcon with the least openings. And falcon already sucks when you only use quick(er) moves.
One should never. Ever. use a falcon punch in a tourny match.

the best falcon is the safest falcon? no just no, in other words failure. if your opponent is in the air in the open do you take a risk and knee or just plain ole uair. if your opponent is on a platform do you knee knowing that he could roll dodge you and punish you or do you do a plain ole uair. if your opponent is doing a laggy aerial and lands on the ground do you go for the safe grab or try to go for the kill with hyphen usmash. if your opponent is hanging on the ledge do you try to stage spike him knowing that he could roll or do you just wait until he comes onto the stage. do you even raptor boost at all, cause it's risky and could be easily avoided. i could go on forever but i'll rest my case on "The best falcon is the safest falcon"


Like I said, falcon punches are for friendly matches.

EVEN THE BEST FALCON IN THE WORLD USES FALCON PUNCH!!
[sarcasm]but he's not the best cause he risky and uses the ridiculous laggy move[/sarcasm]

responses in white
love the punch

 

[FAILchion-]

Oh boy... try to keep the debating at an agreeable level, m'kay? This goes for all of you.

 

[Player-3]

Oh boy... try to keep the debating at an agreeable level, m'kay? This goes for all of you.

i like your custom title

 

[Zeallyx]

@Noodlehead:
Dude, if you dont understand why you shouldnt use the falcon punch in a tournament match, then thats cool.

And yeah..know your moveset? than you should know why you shouldnt use falcon punch. ever.

I dont care if you keep falcon punching in tournies. If you like playing risky, then thats cool. But aren't you the one who listed falcons frame data?
You should know better.

 

[Hiza]

I actually don't see how a player could reach the logic that within a mindset of serious competitive strategy and accurate, calculated use of this character, that a Falcon Punch (in whatever form or instance) is even mentioned or considered. It is so ill-conceived a concept that I felt compelled to actually voice my disgust.

The next time you find yourself in a tournament match against a real professional brawl player, and you convince yourself that you've found an opening for a falcon punch, instead taunt a few times. It is just about as strategically sound.

 

[eRonin]

There are moves that can be countered by falcon punch.
Like warlock punch.
Certain recoveries like falco's side b... though most if not all falcos will aim for the ledge ... and when they miss it's too late to react to it with a punch.
So yeah you wouldn't really punch...

 

[Zeallyx]

There are moves that can be countered by falcon punch.
Like warlock punch.
Certain recoveries like falco's side b... though most if not all falcos will aim for the ledge ... and when they miss it's too late to react to it with a punch.
So yeah you wouldn't really punch...

Exactly. falcon punch is not a falco/fox's side b counter at all. You can counter fox/falco's side b with a punch but that requires them to side b after you yell FALCON..! PU..

Wich is not very likely at all. Its safe to say it just wont happen.

And yeah a falcon punch can counter a warlock/falcon punch, but as these moves (falcon punch and warlock punch) are never used in tournament play, this point is moot.

 

[Player-3]

Zeldas up b is one.

ive pulled off paunches in tournys agaisnt GOOD people, not just scrubz

one of them was the #5 person in my state

so yeah, its not viable at all..... but if you know what your doing it can be done....maybe once every 2 sets

 

[eRonin]

I played against a metaknight in the allisbrawl ladders, managed to get one Falcon Punch punish in...he used side b to get back onto the stage. Now I don't play against many metaknights but is this a common behaviour from the metaknight?

 

[Noodlehead]

k whatever y'all win, don't feel like debating anymore, i guess im bias about the it. oh well i will continue to use it and own. prediction+punch=win
*goes to wii to get ready to PAWNCH someone*

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Falcon Punch counter plenty of moves (given that your opponent missed with it); Jigglypuff's rest, Warlock Punch, Falcon Punch, Raptor Boost, (from behind; Ikes neutral B, Mario's F.L.U.D.D., ) and in some instances Kirby's Down B. I don't feel like listing them all because I can assume you all know what kind of moves this works on.

Verdict: It's situational and risky but if you predict your opponent with precise timing it can land a free KO.

 

[Zeallyx]

Falcon Punch counter plenty of moves (given that your opponent missed with it); Jigglypuff's rest, Warlock Punch, Falcon Punch, Raptor Boost, (from behind; Ikes neutral B, Mario's F.L.U.D.D., ) and in some instances Kirby's Down B. I don't feel like listing them all because I can assume you all know what kind of moves this works on.

Verdict: It's situational and risky but if you predict your opponent with precise timing it can land a free KO.

..It can only reliably counter rest, and falcon/warlock punch.
The rest requires prediction, wich is something you cannot rely on.

Guys..seriously..learn to play safe/effective.

 

[actionblackbird]

..It can only reliably counter rest, and falcon/warlock punch.
The rest requires prediction, wich is something you cannot rely on.

Guys..seriously..learn to play safe/effective.

I think the Rest is riskier than the punch. HOWEVER!!!!


Let's move to something else. We already debated that the Falcon Punch is riskier on Tourneys (both doubles and singles) than on friendlies. Plus, I enjoy random falcon punching on friendlies just to get the "Ohhhhs" and "Ahhhhs" And just for laughter, I somewhat like falcon punching my own team mate. XD Non-WATO peeops of course. I posted my video with me vs RIG...SOOOOO!!! to change the topic...

I think that Falcon should go up at least one character up...I personal don't think ike is that hard of a match up...The idea is to get him to the edge and try to gimp him as possible...
well to me, ike is easy, not sure about you guys.

(Not sure if this is the right place to talk about match up >.>; )

 

[Zeallyx]

I think the Rest is riskier than the punch. HOWEVER!!!!

Thats not what I was saying. I said one can punish a missed rest with a falcon punch reliably.

Also, play better ikes.

 

[eRonin]

I think that Falcon should go up at least one character up...I personal don't think ike is that hard of a match up...The idea is to get him to the edge and try to gimp him as possible...
well to me, ike is easy, not sure about you guys.

(Not sure if this is the right place to talk about match up >.>; )

Well, to me, Ike is a nightmare for Captain Falcon... why?
Ike's Jab > Falcon's Jab (same number of frames, I think, but Ike's has more range...and seeing as jab is considered as one of Falcon's best moves...instant disadvantage right here)
Ike's Range > Falcon's Range (bloody sword...f-tilt and bair pretty much outranges everything Falcon has)
I haven't really thought of Ike's other advantages but I regularly play against one of the best Ikes in my area and it is a nightmare @_@

 

[Zeallyx]

Well, to me, Ike is a nightmare for Captain Falcon... why?
Ike's Jab > Falcon's Jab (same number of frames, I think, but Ike's has more range...and seeing as jab is considered as one of Falcon's best moves...instant disadvantage right here)
Ike's Range > Falcon's Range (bloody sword...f-tilt and bair pretty much outranges everything Falcon has)
I haven't really thought of Ike's other advantages but I regularly play against one of the best Ikes in my area and it is a nightmare @_@

This. ^

So, at the other guy:
again, play better ikes.

And thanks for saving me from writing about ikes advantages on falcon eRonin.

 

[LuLLo]

ActionB@stard, Ike is hell for Falcon, I'd even like to show it to you, my Ike is pretty decent, care for online match sometime?

 

[actionblackbird]

ActionB@stard, Ike is hell for Falcon, I'd even like to show it to you, my Ike is pretty decent, care for online match sometime?

mmhmm, I did say that the ike was a random ike . I played Ryo's ike..and his nasteh X3.

and sure :D.

 

[Red-Blue]

Apparently, no one gives a **** about Falcon anymore.

 

[actionblackbird]

Apparently, no one gives a **** about Falcon anymore.

What are you TALKING about!? We ALL care about falcon. I mean, one time, I was debating of going to Japan to talk to the people on Nintendo about some sort of update for brawl or something...ya know, to make c. Falcon broken as it is. I still plan to enter the tourney with falcon...ONLY once!

 

[Player-3]

What are you TALKING about!? We ALL care about falcon. I mean, one time, I was debating of going to Japan to talk to the people on Nintendo about some sort of update for brawl or something...ya know, to make c. Falcon broken as it is. I still plan to enter the tourney with falcon...ONLY once!

lemme tell you something guys

falcon punching the 5th best player in your state in a TOURNY MATCH

its what has kept me going playing falcon in tournys

 

[talkingbeatles]

lemme tell you something guys

falcon punching the 5th best player in your state in a TOURNY MATCH

its what has kept me going playing falcon in tournys

But according to Knee, the lord of Falcons and saviors of these boards, Falcon Punch should never be considered in a tournament. I mean, it's supposed to be impossible to pull off on a real professional.

Have I somehow been led astray by dubious advice?

Sorry... that was a little bit pointed and sarcastic... but I believe it should be pointed out frequently that there is a time and place for the punch. And this includes the tournament scene, obviously.

 

[Pancakesyo]

captain puannnchaaa!!!!

 

[Player-3]

But according to Knee, the lord of Falcons and saviors of these boards, Falcon Punch should never be considered in a tournament. I mean, it's supposed to be impossible to pull off on a real professional.

Have I somehow been led astray by dubious advice?

Sorry... that was a little bit pointed and sarcastic... but I believe it should be pointed out frequently that there is a time and place for the punch. And this includes the tournament scene, obviously.

There IS a time and place for the paunch

it is almost nonexistent but it is THERE

 

[actionblackbird]

There IS a time and place for the paunch

it is almost nonexistent but it is THERE

I agree with Player-3 here. <=P The falcon punch is still there but sitting there quiet till is quiet till PAWNCH! out of nowwhere!!...but again, it need to be reraly used and unexpected.

 

[6tails]

From the way I see it:

Offensive Tools - Uair, Fair, SideB, DownB, Jabs (most importantly)
Defensive Taools - SideB, DownB (They can block projectiles)
Recovery Tools - UpB, SideB
Edge guard Tools - UpB (It can interrupt some recoveries), SideB, Fair, Uair, Dair, Bair
Situational Moves - NeutralB, Fair

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

From the way I see it:

Offensive Tools - Uair, Fair, SideB, DownB, Jabs (most importantly)
Defensive Taools - SideB, DownB (They can block projectiles)
Recovery Tools - UpB, SideB
Edge guard Tools - UpB (It can interrupt some recoveries), SideB, Fair, Uair, Dair, Bair
Situational Moves - NeutralB, Fair

Nah. Never use side b or down b to stop projectiles. ever. just shield/jump/spotdodge. Its way less punishable. (or jab the projectiles..)
up b as an edgeguard is very situatioal.
and falcons whole moveset can be used offesively..(not saying all should be used *cough*falcon kick*cough*).
Utilt can be used for edgeguarding
side b should almost never be used for recovering.
etc.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

falcon punched saved my *** in a tourney match, I was just really good at predicting my opponents next move. don't get me wrong, it was probably the only falcon punch I used in a serious tourney set. (I've had bad days where I've entered tournies and didn't feel like playing) not to be mean, but some of you sound like fanboys :l

edit: also, knee never said he was lord and savior for these boards and knee was right. you won't land falcon punches on a really good player. at least in new york anyway. I've tried (friendly set) mid air falcon punching bum's ganon. guess what? he air dodge, grabbed ledge, then waited for my reocver and dair'd me. I should've quit these boards a long time ago, I tried, but I don't use any other characters so im stuck here.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

But according to Knee, the lord of Falcons and saviors of these boards, Falcon Punch should never be considered in a tournament. I mean, it's supposed to be impossible to pull off on a real professional.

Have I somehow been led astray by dubious advice?

Sorry... that was a little bit pointed and sarcastic... but I believe it should be pointed out frequently that there is a time and place for the punch. And this includes the tournament scene, obviously.

That doesn't mean that you should completely dismiss it as "useless".

The warrior sharpened his blade, his foe did not; and that could have made all the difference in determining who wins the fight.

 

[PartyHatPikaChu]

That doesn't mean that you should completely dismiss it as "useless".

The warrior sharpened his blade, his foe did not; and that could have made all the difference in determining who wins the fight.

But it is not really a move you should depend on, or even consider using unless you're on your last stock and the opponent still has three stocks or something

:bumper:

:bumper:

 

[t3h n00b]

side b should almost never be used for recovering.
etc.

Edgeguarding no, recovering yes. Not only is there the mock waveland on some stages and the obvious spike (I know it's predictable, I'm not saying go for it often), but there are some situations where raptor boost is safer, and less predictable. Look at rebaz's channel on youtube if you don't believe me, he uses raptor boost fairly often for recovery, and I don't think he ever gets punished for it because he does it in a safe or unpredictable manner.

 

[RjPunch]

man I miss all the good stuff but I play falcon when pikachu loses in the first match which is about half the time. Falcon gave me 4 sweet knees in one match so I keep playing.