Falcons current metagame - in detail

[Player-3]

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=221

 

[Zeallyx]

For all of you that believe Falcon can't speed hog, he can. I remember reading here a while ago that his speed made him unable to sweet spot the ledge and instead just fast fall below the stage. For the longest time I believed this to be true until I tried to see if I could find alternative ways to speed hog. The main one I tried was run off fastfall immediate reverse Raptor Boost, which was working. I was like "sweet! now I can't be a **** like everyone else!" One time though, I noticed I didn't RB and still did it. So I practiced and practiced till I eventually found out that Falcon can speed hog, you just have to go through the motion (slam down->roll thumb towards stage) about twice as fast as the rest of the cast.

The more you know.

This is common knowledge. Putting it into practice/implementing it into ones game is something else, though. (As, when one is not able to pull this off consistently its effectiveness drops by aprroximately 99%, as it can put you in a dissadvantegous position when one screws up.).

 

[Red-Blue]

Brawl+ character boards? Do you mean in the Smash Workshop? Well I believe every character board should discuss their character in both Brawl+ and BBrawl. Don't you agree?

Not quite. They're seperate boards for a reason.

 

[Sovereign]

Sacred here, just posting to see if anyone has discovered this:

Falcon has an infinite on Wario. Due to lack of technological requirements, I can't provide a video, but what I can provide is instruction on how to.

Grab - Jump Release - DJ - Footstool - Nair - Repeat

There you have it. The timing isn't nearly as hard as it is for the Fhanfus Loop on R.O.B, but against advanced Warios it's pretty hard to get. I was testing it out in Training Mode on a Level 9 CPU and it seemed he couldn't get out of it. They can DI, but your aerial momentum can keep the infinite/loop going for as long as you can muster, if you don't miscalculate and can read the Wario's DI.

If this proves to be false(The combo that is), then by all means disregard, but it's worth a shot at trying out. It seems very legit. Let me know what you guys find in this.

 

[teluoborg]

Well here's the problem : cpus don't know they can roll after a footstool.

I tried the footstool>Nair on Wario while experimenting Fhanfus loop stuff. It worked well on CPUs but when I did the same tests with a human player it just appeared that he could roll between the footstool and the Nair.

That said, I did not have time to test it fully on a human player, and it seems possible if you fastfall and time your Nair perfectly.

But CPUs are not thrustworthy when it comes to footstools :/

 

[Player-3]

Short hop footstool

 

[Sovereign]

Even so, Teluoborg, I think this is legit, and that no human player can escape it, and even if they got to roll, we now have a tech chase situation that could easily set up for a repeat, so it's green either way it goes for me.

 

[Psychoace]

I think knee had something like this but it involved dair. As for rolling i'm pretty sure a footstool forces a stand up.

 

[Sovereign]

I think knee had something like this but it involved dair. As for rolling i'm pretty sure a footstool forces a stand up.

I wouldn't doubt it. Knee's a genius, and works hard in training mode to find stuff like this. I'm just hoping others will find some way to make this useful, if it becomes that useful at all.

 

[teluoborg]

Footstool doesn't force a stand up, it gives you 4 options (get up, roll left, right and attack).

I tried your infinite SS and it seems pretty legit, the only bad side I can see is the difficulty/reward balance. With 1 or 2 pummels + the first hit Nair it makes 6-8% per loop (when fresh). So you have to repeat it 3 times to deal as much damage as a 20% Fsmash.
It's a good technique if you're able to do it flawlessly and 0-D Wario with one grab, but else I rather Fsmash.

 

[Sovereign]

Fact is, it's like another option to beating up Wario. We have a guaranteed knee to finish the combo out with, along with other things. He's got a CG on us until 63%. We might as well abuse this, as best as we can.

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

footstool does force a standup.
this guide is outdated and wrong

 

[Sovereign]

footstool does force a standup.
this guide is outdated and wrong

We're discussing it... where do you see a guide about it?

lrn2readmoreb4upost

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

i read the last few pages where pretty much nothing has been said.
it's common knowledge that a footstool forces a standup. i know there is an "infinite" on wario (he can escape iirc, but takes a lot of damage in the process). its pretty hard and not really practical anywhere but FD which wario will usually ban/strike. dont bother learning it. just GR knee.

fun falcon facts:
approach with uair and bair are not too terrible. they both push back sheilded opponents pretty far, making them almost safe approaches (lol).

after an fthrow at early %'s, people often spot dodge thinking you will attempt the pseudo CG. you could time a falcon dive to get them in the air, or wait and dashgrab or nair.

lots of falcons go for a knee offstage, usually flubbed. i find that uair is more effective. you can uair and if they airdodge it, FF or follow their movement and land the next uair. this works with knee too, but uair is another (better) option. falcons uair is an awesome move. use it all the time.

dont approach with nair. lots of falcons do this and it isnt safe at all. there are a lot of benefits to using nair, as it's a great combo starter, but it's way to easy to punish. use it as a suprise/punishing move.

use utilt when your opponent is on the edge. lots of times opponents will drop down and jump up to get back on the stage, so this move will often hit them. this isnt effective against certain characters like marth.

dont use usmash very often at all. its slow and very punishable. dsmash is falcon's only decent smash.

use uair more often.

also: change the part that says falcon is the worst character in the game. he's not. not even close.

 

[Player-3]

i read the last few pages where pretty much nothing has been said.
it's common knowledge that a footstool forces a standup. i know there is an "infinite" on wario (he can escape iirc, but takes a lot of damage in the process). its pretty hard and not really practical anywhere but FD which wario will usually ban/strike. dont bother learning it. just GR knee.

fun falcon facts:
approach with uair and bair are not too terrible. they both push back sheilded opponents pretty far, making them almost safe approaches (lol).

after an fthrow at early %'s, people often spot dodge thinking you will attempt the pseudo CG. you could time a falcon dive to get them in the air, or wait and dashgrab or nair.

lots of falcons go for a knee offstage, usually flubbed. i find that uair is more effective. you can uair and if they airdodge it, FF or follow their movement and land the next uair. this works with knee too, but uair is another (better) option. falcons uair is an awesome move. use it all the time.

dont approach with nair. lots of falcons do this and it isnt safe at all. there are a lot of benefits to using nair, as it's a great combo starter, but it's way to easy to punish. use it as a suprise/punishing move.

use utilt when your opponent is on the edge. lots of times opponents will drop down and jump up to get back on the stage, so this move will often hit them. this isnt effective against certain characters like marth.

dont use usmash very often at all. its slow and very punishable. dsmash is falcon's only decent smash.

use uair more often.

also: change the part that says falcon is the worst character in the game. he's not. not even close.

your dumb

 

[lordhelmet]

P3 is right.

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

lol ok.
these are all very effective things that falcons dont do.
these are all things that work for me in tournament matches. i win with falcon. especially in teams. and in real tournaments, not this online bull**** that most falcons play exclusively. im a ranked player so i think what i say has at least some value, seeing that i am more than likely better than you.
so **** you P3. if you have input, lets hear it. otherwise stop trolling.

anyway, i think falcon may have an upb brake. has anyone looked into this?

 

[teluoborg]

dont approach with nair. lots of falcons do this and it isnt safe at all. there are a lot of benefits to using nair, as it's a great combo starter, but it's way to easy to punish. use it as a suprise/punishing move.

No this is just wrong. Nair has no landing lag and this is why it is a good approach. People cannot punish you because when you use Nair as an approach you don't try to hit with it.

And for the up B brake I'll see that, but this seems 1-very unlikely and 2-totally unsafe (though not as unsafe as dying, I agree).

Edit : PS : Welcome to the Falcon boards, don't expect people to take advice nicely.

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

lol im aware i get trolled every time i post here.

nair gets sheild grabbed like nobody's business. its so easy to sheild grab, as are most/all of falcons approaches. i didnt mean never do it, just use it sparingly.

i dunno the upb brake works for DK, so it may work for falcon, right? i've done it in a few matches and it seemed to sasve me from certain death, but maybe i just DI'd really well O_o
it would leave you way open, but its better than outright dying

 

[Player 3]

falcons up b does not brake

your really stupid.


nair is one of falcons ONLY approaches, ive never been shieldgrabbed inbetween hits and if your not stupid you can either:
1- space it so you cant get grabbed (barring D3 of course)

2- crossover jab their shield and then jump away



lol ranked player

where?

if someone who thinks footstool forces a standup is ranked i feel sorry for that region

footstool forces you to miss a tech, not a standup

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

your right i was thinking of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkv6zazgGH4
im an idiot. but its impractical anyway, no reason to argue.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241992
Deez

so yes im better than you. your just a foolish troll who is on a power trip for no reason. have you ever contributed anything? no. so stfu. win something then well talk.

and nair gets sheild grabbed. your a *******

 

[Salem]

your right i was thinking of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkv6zazgGH4
im an idiot. but its impractical anyway, no reason to argue.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241992
Deez

so yes im better than you. your just a foolish troll who is on a power trip for no reason. have you ever contributed anything? no. so stfu. win something then well talk.

and nair gets sheild grabbed. your a *******

N-air can't get shield grabbed...
To perform the ungrabable version of N-air continue to move behind your oppoenet.

It's simple.

 

[noradseven]

N-air can't get shield grabbed...
To perform the ungrabable version of N-air continue to move behind your oppoenet.

It's simple.

Pivot grab foolz, and trust me you can grab shield grab n-air, and you can definitely PS grab it. Its still a decent move but its no b-air/u-air in spacing, and pressure.

Also lol I mostly agree with gameandwatch4lyfe. Except for the whole d-smashing being decent, all falcons smash's are high risk high reward heh, and kinda meh in general, f-smash is my favorite one though cause it has the highest reward :D.

 

[Player 3]

Pivot grab foolz, and trust me you can grab shield grab n-air, and you can definitely PS grab it. Its still a decent move but its no b-air/u-air in spacing, and pressure.

..........

do you understand the concept of crossovers?

falcons air speed is high enough that can you nair through their shieild, and RUN away before anyone can pivot grab you

except maybe snake

PS grab of course

uair leaves you open as **** if you hit a shield
free dash grab

bair, yeah its ok but short characters can run under it

your right i was thinking of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkv6zazgGH4
im an idiot. but its impractical anyway, no reason to argue.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241992
Deez

so yes im better than you. your just a foolish troll who is on a power trip for no reason. have you ever contributed anything? no. so stfu. win something then well talk.

and nair gets sheild grabbed. your a *******

lol

i could easily be top 7 in GA if:

1- i used marth in tournaments instead of cf

2- i still played brawl

ive beaten people who have beaten reflex (not i-n-u-i logic, not saying im better than reflex <_<) in tournament with my marth, but i enjoy falcon too much to play marth more

i dont care enough about brawl to win


and yeah i have contributed alot

or tried to

but people on this board are too ****ing ******** to listen and insist that falcon kick is good and that

 

[Sovereign]

..........

do you understand the concept of crossovers?

falcons air speed is high enough that can you nair through their shieild, and RUN away before anyone can pivot grab you

except maybe snake

PS grab of course

uair leaves you open as **** if you hit a shield
free dash grab

bair, yeah its ok but short characters can run under it




lol

i could easily be top 7 in GA if:

1- i used marth in tournaments instead of cf

2- i still played brawl

ive beaten people who have beaten reflex (not i-n-u-i logic, not saying im better than reflex <_<) in tournament with my marth, but i enjoy falcon too much to play marth more

i dont care enough about brawl to win


and yeah i have contributed alot

or tried to

but people on this board are too ****ing ******** to listen and insist that falcon kick is good and that

Why the stab, P-3? I thought we were getting to be cool with each other.

I <3 Falcon Kick, and really does work better than you would like to believe.

Other than that, yes, you've contributed, and you're good... to my knowledge.

GnW4L: I understand and agree with some of your concepts, but the Dsmash thing I don't agree with. It's great for roll and spot dodge punish, but I don't think it's the better one of the four. I think Usmash is his top smash, since you can combo it on missed techs and such. You can give it range through hyphen dashing, and can JC into it for more length.

 

[Player 3]

Why the stab, P-3? I thought we were getting to be cool with each other.

I <3 Falcon Kick, and really does work better than you would like to believe.

Other than that, yes, you've contributed, and you're good... to my knowledge.

GnW4L: I understand and agree with some of your concepts, but the Dsmash thing I don't agree with. It's great for roll and spot dodge punish, but I don't think it's the better one of the four. I think Usmash is his top smash, since you can combo it on missed techs and such. You can give it range through hyphen dashing, and can JC into it for more length.

lol i wasnt stabbing at you

your reasons for FK are legit

im talking abotu the other random ppl who are like
"zomg falcon kick 2 gud its liek so good you hit them and they cant do anything"

usmash is awesome

fsmash is my fav smash

it ***** so hard i mean charge an fsmash while the opponents on the ledge

beats everything except mk/marth and DKs getup attack under 100

 

[lordhelmet]

Why the stab, P-3? I thought we were getting to be cool with each other.

I <3 Falcon Kick, and really does work better than you would like to believe.

Other than that, yes, you've contributed, and you're good... to my knowledge.

GnW4L: I understand and agree with some of your concepts, but the Dsmash thing I don't agree with. It's great for roll and spot dodge punish, but I don't think it's the better one of the four. I think Usmash is his top smash, since you can combo it on missed techs and such. You can give it range through hyphen dashing, and can JC into it for more length.

I gotta agree with SS here, I use FK quite a bit and I barely get punished for it. Just don't be dumb and use it when: A. at low percents and B. when they're not in any type of lag.

PS: Never try to hit someone with FK in the air.

 

[teluoborg]

Why not ? It screws people's timing.
I like to aerial FK just before entering someone's range.
You just have to know what aerials it won't beat even if they're mistimed.
And to not be predictable ofc.


Also I need to charge more ledge fsmashs.

 

[Player 3]

lord read my post i agree with SS

not the other ppl

 

[lordhelmet]

lord read my post i agree with SS

not the other ppl

Why do you only have 59 posts?

 

[Sovereign]

Why do you only have 59 posts?

*facepalm*

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

..........

do you understand the concept of crossovers?

falcons air speed is high enough that can you nair through their shieild, and RUN away before anyone can pivot grab you

except maybe snake

PS grab of course

uair leaves you open as **** if you hit a shield
free dash grab

bair, yeah its ok but short characters can run under it




lol

i could easily be top 7 in GA if:

1- i used marth in tournaments instead of cf

2- i still played brawl

ive beaten people who have beaten reflex (not i-n-u-i logic, not saying im better than reflex <_<) in tournament with my marth, but i enjoy falcon too much to play marth more

i dont care enough about brawl to win


and yeah i have contributed alot

or tried to

but people on this board are too ****ing ******** to listen and insist that falcon kick is good and that

@ P3: its hard to contribute when people act like mindless trolls and shoot down everything you say without much, if anything to back it, up isnt it? i realize i was wrong about one thing but **** man, give the trolling a rest. i'd like to at least attempt to discuss things with legit falcon mains, not some **** on a power trip who isnt good at/doesnt play brawl. i dont care how good you COULD be, you're not, so dont act like it. you arent better than anyone, so please stop acting like your good. now, lets move on and stop being ***** because i will always win in the *** hole wars.

lol well brawl does suck, but it's where the $$$$$$ is right?

falcon kick is not good. it has its uses, but those are far and rew between.

uair does a good job at pushing shields back, it can also lead into a jab/grab if it hits, or possibly into an aerial string.

bair works in a similar fashion.

nair is sooooooo easy to PS grab, and i dont think its as hard to sheild grab as you all say because i see it happen very frequently.

all of falcons smashes are ****. lets establish that. i hardly ever use any ove them, but dsmash is the best at punishing. it is good against spot dodges and rolls. usmash is for tech chasing, but miss and you get *****. it has soooo much startup and ending lag i almost never find a time to use it. fsmash can be mixed in, but very rarely. charging an fsmash is almost never a good idea, are you guts serious? i only smash attack maybe 2-4 times a match.

uair is such an awesome move, i really dont think people understand. i use uair about 75% of my total moves used, the rest being jab and bair (lol).

imo, falcons uair brings him out of bottom tier. i'll post some vidz in the coming weeks demonstrating how i use uair. most/no falcons i have seen use uair as effectively as i do. most falcons use fair too much, and that should stop. its almost always better to use uair. this aint melee *****s

 

[Player 3]

fair is only good for its lingering hitbox

i dont want to argue with you since your points are valid but you keep saying im on a power trip

i really dont understand that

and yes, i am good at brawl i just dont enter tournaments anymore for it

you know player-1? i assume you do sine you main diddy

i was playing him last night and we were going even/trading wins/helping eachother get rid of habits

i had no habits he could find
He did

DIDDY IS SO ****ING GAY
xD


and usmash actually has IASA frames on it iirc, so its better than you think


and falcons grabs are also what brings him out of bottom tier
imo

mostly is uair though

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

See we can accomplish a lot more when we act in a civil manner sorry, I was kind of a ****. I just hate it when people shoot down my posts without giving any reasons. That's why I almost never post here. I know my **** (apparently nothing about footstools though )

I actually just dropped diddy because he was no fun...

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

I also don't like the hitbox on usmash. It doesn't have much horizontal range, so IMO it's pretty hard to land.

Falcons throws are sex. His grab game is high tier.

Sry for double post. I can't edit on my ipod

 

[Player-1]

usmash is AMAZING For punishing anything with lag

so much damage

great position

uairuairuairuair

edit: this is p3

 

[Acedude55]

Falcons u-smash has a broken hitbox. :|

In all honesty it's underused. 20-22% damage if both hits land, wich isn't all that rare. It's fast, it's not as laggy as his other smashes. Legit.

Btw it has a broken hitbox

I also don't like the hitbox on usmash. It doesn't have much horizontal range, so IMO it's pretty hard to land.

It has broken horizontal range.

*leaves*

 

[Player 3]

yeah usmashes hitbox is pretty stupid

i hit helmet when he was hanging on the ledge with it

when i wasnt even near it
lul

 

[Raaul!]

Maybe everyone knows this but there is a trick that a couple of characters, including falcon can use. it allows a falcon player to short hop fair/dair/bair/ without any lag on the ground. One can do it w/o tap jump but it is easiest w/ tap jump on. with about the same timing as a dodge roll (block then immediately after left down or right) you jump w/ the joystick and then do whichever air you want w/ the C-stick. It makes his air's have no lag time and allows for all sorts of combo opportunities. This technique is a huge advantage. It acts like L-canceling did on melee. I used to get so frustrated w/ falcons lag after short hopping his airs, but this legitimately gets rid of all of the lag time. Try it and watch as your opponents face turns red w/ frustration while you grin sheepishly as a little bit of blood rushes to the tip of your *****. Cap is back! lets get him out of the bottom tier!

 

[smashkng]

Falcons u-smash has a broken hitbox. :|

In all honesty it's underused. 20-22% damage if both hits land, wich isn't all that rare. It's fast, it's not as laggy as his other smashes. Legit.

Btw it has a broken hitbox



It has broken horizontal range.

*leaves*

It goes very long with Hyphen Smash, but it still is not easy to land because in the initial part of the slide it doesn't hit. CF's DACUS actually shortens it, but it also means it's easier to hit with it from closer distances.