Falco matchup discussion

[Guilhe]

I believe he is very close if not on par with Olimar as the worst match to play as Ike. I would close it with 70:30.

 

[Teh Brettster]

So what did you guys agree on the matchup?

60-40 Falco's favor?

Hahahaha, no.
Funny seeing a Falco say that. Usually people try and give their character as much as possible.

I'd say more like 70-30. It's bad.
Actually, one of Ike's worst, if you ask me.

 

[Kimchi]

Leaning very close to a 75:25 matchup, which is near unwinnable. Guilhe, you wanted the most exact matchup ratios so here's my sum-up of why I believe it's not 70:30.

We all know approaching Falco is extremely difficult. Once you approach Falco, you can only rack up so much damage. I'd say the most damage you'd probably be able to rack up is 40%, with jab cancels -> Bthrow -> Dash attack. If you think about it though, it's really not worth the effort to approach Falco with all that effort just to accumulate at probably most 40% each time. Not only that but if it's hard to approach, how are we going to get close and KO Falco? Falco's lasers render our aerial approaches relatively useless. Silent lasers can easily take care of our ground approaches and if we try to aerial dodge approach a Falco, he'll just Phantasm right through. Meanwhile, if we attempt to powershield, he'll keep on whittling our shield down. You have no idea how quickly Falco can break our shield. If Falco doesn't break our shield completely, his Fsmash can pierce through our minimized shield.

Kirk had a match against a decent Falco a while ago, but I think it sums up what Falco can do to us that makes the matchup so idiotic. Look at 2:54 - 3:00. That was Kirk trying to jab to punish and like I was saying before, Falco's AC aerials -> shield comes out before our jab so how do we punish if the aerials are spaced? We can't kill Falco easily apart from edgehogging Falco's Firebird and smashing/edgehogging a mistimed Phantasm. Ike's specialty is getting inside enemies, racking up damage quickly, and KOing them fairly early. Falco's lasers completely tear apart that specialty. This is why I think the matchup is 75:25. At least for Olimar, Ike can approach without too much trouble. Falco's just another story.

I'm sorry if I sounded pessimistic, but I just cannot find the matchup 70:30. I really think that difference of 5 really states the fact that Ike vs Falco is in no way winnable unless the Falco makes mistakes. No offense to Kirk and all, but that last kill, TooDizzy could have Phantasmed onto the edge. Instead of relying on our homecourt advantage of being inside characters, Ike has to rely on edgehogging Falco and punishing idiotic Phantasms to take stocks. I hate .

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I'm not really sure what the match up is but both 75-25 and 70-30 sound fine to me simply because a lot of things are stage reliant and the starters are enough to change the match up 5%. If your on a stage with platforms you can just camp there till you reach 40% or w/e you want then start fighting to avoid the chain grab. Idk why you wouldn't just SDI and tech the chaingrab > spike though...

But Kimchi it is much harder to approach an olimar than it is falco because you can't shield the pikmin and most of the time they are coming at you faster than lasers. Theres also only 1 move that can't be shield grabbed by olimar and you have to space it perfectly. One time I asked ryko for advice on how to deal with olimar and how to approach and his answer was to airdodge behind him which honestly just gets predictable and punishable very fast.

I think the olimar match up is probably 80-20 and maybe MK's too lol

 

[Kimchi]

I'm not really sure what the match up is but both 75-25 and 70-30 sound fine to me simply because a lot of things are stage reliant and the starters are enough to change the match up 5%. If your on a stage with platforms you can just camp there till you reach 40% or w/e you want then start fighting to avoid the chain grab. Idk why you wouldn't just SDI and tech the chaingrab > spike though...

But Kimchi it is much harder to approach an olimar than it is falco because you can't shield the pikmin and most of the time they are coming at you faster than lasers. Theres also only 1 move that can't be shield grabbed by olimar and you have to space it perfectly. One time I asked ryko for advice on how to deal with olimar and how to approach and his answer was to airdodge behind him which honestly just gets predictable and punishable very fast.

I think the olimar match up is probably 80-20 and maybe MK's too lol

Really? I don't know, I can't really imagine Olimar doing much to stop Ike's approaches except throwing purple Pikmin or retreat pivot grabbing. But then again, I tend to ignore Pikmins slowly draining my percent... You're probably the most experienced since you've played error's Olimar.
As for the MK matchup, it's all about Nair spacing and using Fairs pretty much only when MK is in the air. Utilt and Bair work pretty well against Meta Knight. I don't really think it's 80:20, more close to 65:35, because the only thing that Meta Knights give me trouble with are grounded shuttle loops and OOS Nairs. Apart from that, Meta Knights don't give me too much trouble lol.

 

[FearTheMateria]

I call 65-35 Falco's favor

Ike
Advantages:
Helluh good ground range
Spammable A combo
Three spikes
Great air moves
Heavy weight

Disadvantages:
Decent recovery that can be gimped (Sometimes not even by opponent, but by the stage... O.o)
Slow smashes
Lacks projectile

Falco
Advantages:
One of the best projectiles in the game
Two spike moves
Sliding USmash
The godforsaken Chain Throw

Disadvantages:
One of the worst recoveries. Ever. Nuff said.
Nearly useless nair/fair
Finishers are limited to USmash, dair, and Forward B

Match-ups:

In the category of ground game, Falco takes the cake. He makes approaches a living hell with the harassing lasers only to add in a chain throw when the approach gets somewhere.
However, not all hope is lost. At the most, Falco can only rack up 40%-45% max and the spike doesn't kill if Up B is launched ASAP.

In the aerial series, the victory goes to Ike, but barely.
If Ike can get around the laser, his sword range is key and can rack up most his damage this way. Falco's only counters for aerial game are his bair and dair. Both with limited range in comparison to Ike's holy blade

In the area of recovery, Ike beats Falco. Knock the bird far enough away, and he's not coming back. Grab the ledge and hope for the best, XD.

But, in this match-up, the Chain Throw and dair seem to be enough to weaken Ike for the kill. He also can force the shield out of Ike and make the air an impossible goal for an Ike player. If an Ike can clear his head and think the game out, he as a chance. Otherwise, Falco's gonna run laps around him.

 

[Kimchi]

I call 65-35 Falco's favor

Ike
Advantages:
Helluh good ground range
Spammable A combo
Three spikes
Great air moves
Heavy weight

Disadvantages:
Decent recovery that can be gimped (Sometimes not even by opponent, but by the stage... O.o)
Slow smashes
Lacks projectile

Falco
Advantages:
One of the best projectiles in the game
Two spike moves
Sliding USmash
The godforsaken Chain Throw

Disadvantages:
One of the worst recoveries. Ever. Nuff said.
Nearly useless nair/fair
Finishers are limited to USmash, dair, and Forward B

Match-ups:

In the category of ground game, Falco takes the cake. He makes approaches a living hell with the harassing lasers only to add in a chain throw when the approach gets somewhere.
However, not all hope is lost. At the most, Falco can only rack up 40%-45% max and the spike doesn't kill if Up B is launched ASAP.

In the aerial series, the victory goes to Ike, but barely.
If Ike can get around the laser, his sword range is key and can rack up most his damage this way. Falco's only counters for aerial game are his bair and dair. Both with limited range in comparison to Ike's holy blade

In the area of recovery, Ike beats Falco. Knock the bird far enough away, and he's not coming back. Grab the ledge and hope for the best, XD.

But, in this match-up, the Chain Throw and dair seem to be enough to weaken Ike for the kill. He also can force the shield out of Ike and make the air an impossible goal for an Ike player. If an Ike can clear his head and think the game out, he as a chance. Otherwise, Falco's gonna run laps around him.

Nair is the farthest thing from useless... If Ike's in the air, Falco's Nair can easily punish aerial dodges and it can follow up into Jab cancel -> Dthrow. The matchup's definitely far from 65:35. It's at least 70:30.

 

[Notra]

Falco can chaingrab ike to 50% due to to ike heavy weight and Falco can rack up more damage easily with laser. Ban either Jungle japes or Final Destination and cp Norfair is a good idea since Falco dominates ike on FD and ike does so poorly on Jungle Japes. I think ike retreating Fair works well against Falco. 70-30 in Falco's favor

norfair isnt a good stage to cp a falco. his lasers still work just differently. and it makes it easier for him to survive and kill. norfair is one of my cp's as a falco. not a good idea to take a falco there.

 

[_Sync_]

norfair isnt a good stage to cp a falco. his lasers still work just differently. and it makes it easier for him to survive and kill. norfair is one of my cp's as a falco. not a good idea to take a falco there.

Then tell us, as a Falco main, what stages would you normally consider banning to give players an idea as what available stages to counter? Aside from the 2 stages that you would ban, what other stages would give you problems?

I myself haven't faced any name worthy Falcos so I wouldn't have any knowledge of the actual match-up.

 

[Ussi]

EDIT: For a good summary

The MU is 65-35. I never have problems with Falco when it comes to a worst MU. I find Marth much more difficult than Falco.

The first and most VITAL skill needed in this MU is surviving the CG and NOT getting grabbed. for the first 35% you must NOT get grabbed or it will be very very difficult to get back after being spiked. Taking also you don't want to give a free 40-60%. NEVER EVER take any risky moves. You must be PATIENT! Ike can play a good don't get grabbed game with his fair spacing. This also means DON'T use eruption cause its too laggy afterwords.

Lasers are annoying but they have barely any hitstun so You can SHIELD his jab right away and jab anything else Falco tries. Silent lasers work well only cause of reaction lag, and that's why Falco has the advantage in the first place.

Falco can't kill Ike until 140%, early kill at 100% (fsmash shouldn't hit Ike if he is spacing, however, accidents/getting read happens), Ike can kill Falco by 90% and early kill at 55%. Falco can't gimp** Ike, but he can laser aether if you don't peak it at the ledge. This is why its critical to survive the CG > spike > gimp... starting at 70% is the same thing with the Pikachu MU if you get grabbed.

Ike has much more range than Falco. As always, this allows Ike to space and do something. Fair is great as always. Nair spaced, is great for luring a shield grab happy Falco. Always try to stay in that too close to laser, to far to do anything to you but phantasm. Another thing, watch Falco for that. You can chase it with a dash attack even if they do an aerial one. Also, dash away usmash works if they try to recover on stage thinking they can hit you. Last note, You should keep hitting trying to jab during the CG in case they try to pivot.

It is mandatory to stage strike FD and SV... on equal levels of play its not really possible. Ban japes, that stage sucks... FD is much more doable... Brinstar is a great stage to use against Falco, irregular floor to mess up CG and lava to save Ike. Spikes go through lava too.

Falco keeps the MU in his favor due to his ability to not only force Ike to approach, but to have a good way to knock him away after getting in and the final push is how easy his CG gives a lot of damage to Ike when followed up properly.

The only reason this MU is bad for Ike is cause of the CG's ability to do a lot of damage and/or just flat out kill Ike, otherwise it'd just be a 6-4 disadvantage.


**by gimp, that means he has no moves outside edgehogging.

 

[Guilhe]

I’ll accept your ratio Kimchi, but let me clarify out some reasons you stated for your ratio about this matchup:

We all know approaching Falco is extremely difficult. Once you approach Falco, you can only rack up so much damage. I'd say the most damage you'd probably be able to rack up is 40%, with jab cancels -> Bthrow -> Dash attack. If you think about it though, it's really not worth the effort to approach Falco with all that effort just to accumulate at probably most 40% each time. Not only that but if it's hard to approach, how are we going to get close and KO Falco? Falco's lasers render our aerial approaches relatively useless. Silent lasers can easily take care of our ground approaches and if we try to aerial dodge approach a Falco, he'll just Phantasm right through. Meanwhile, if we attempt to powershield, he'll keep on whittling our shield down. You have no idea how quickly Falco can break our shield. If Falco doesn't break our shield completely, his Fsmash can pierce through our minimized shield.

Without a doubt, approaching Falco is the biggest problem for Ike. But once he closes in, he can deal powerful damage out of his jab sequence just as you’ve stated. Spotdodging (and specially airdodging) doesn’t have enough lag for Falco to phantasm through before Ike can raise his shield if not with some serious mindgames and prediction, so don’t abuse SHAD at every opportunity you’re given and you should be fine about that. Falco crushing Ike’s shield is difficult at least, bigger characters means bigger shields and he does not have any particular move with great shield impact.

Kirk had a match against a decent Falco a while ago, but I think it sums up what Falco can do to us that makes the matchup so idiotic. Look at 2:54 - 3:00. That was Kirk trying to jab to punish and like I was saying before, Falco's AC aerials -> shield comes out before our jab so how do we punish if the aerials are spaced? We can't kill Falco easily apart from edgehogging Falco's Firebird and smashing/edgehogging a mistimed Phantasm. Ike's specialty is getting inside enemies, racking up damage quickly, and KOing them fairly early. Falco's lasers completely tear apart that specialty. This is why I think the matchup is 75:25. At least for Olimar, Ike can approach without too much trouble. Falco's just another story.

Ike KO’ing Falco is rather easier than Falco KO’ng Ike. Falco is lighter, falls faster and moves horizontally much more slowly in the air. Thanks to the nature of his Dair, his incapacity to stall in the air and slow horizontal aerial movement, sending him up sets up nice opportunities for juggling.

I'm sorry if I sounded pessimistic, but I just cannot find the matchup 70:30. I really think that difference of 5 really states the fact that Ike vs Falco is in no way winnable unless the Falco makes mistakes. No offense to Kirk and all, but that last kill, TooDizzy could have Phantasmed onto the edge. Instead of relying on our homecourt advantage of being inside characters, Ike has to rely on edgehogging Falco and punishing idiotic Phantasms to take stocks. I hate .

You should play good Olimars Kimchi. While at the Falco matchup the use of aerials is much more limited, against Olimar you can barely use them (except for perfectly spaced and timed Nairs) at all unless you want to be shieldgrabbed at every attempt.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Really? I don't know, I can't really imagine Olimar doing much to stop Ike's approaches except throwing purple Pikmin or retreat pivot grabbing. But then again, I tend to ignore Pikmins slowly draining my percent... You're probably the most experienced since you've played error's Olimar.
As for the MK matchup, it's all about Nair spacing and using Fairs pretty much only when MK is in the air. Utilt and Bair work pretty well against Meta Knight. I don't really think it's 80:20, more close to 65:35, because the only thing that Meta Knights give me trouble with are grounded shuttle loops and OOS Nairs. Apart from that, Meta Knights don't give me too much trouble lol.

Sometimes I wonder if to much experience is bad but a lot of people have agreed that olimar is the hardest match up for Ike and the ones who don't well just haven't played the good olimars, there aren't that many out there to Anyways the problem isn't that he shuts down Ike's approach its that Ike's approach is useless.

For MK I find aerial shuttle loops more dangerous than grounded ones. If the Metaknight ever sees you jump he can respond by jumping and shuttle looping asap and it will probably hit you before you hit him. This limits your use of your 2nd jump to pretty much jumping to grab the edge. An aerial shuttle loop at any percent sets you up to being gimped.

It is mandatory to stage strike FD and SV... on equal levels of play.... no.. if you are better then you can win.

wtf does this mean?

 

[Ussi]

what i meant is On equals levels of skills, FD and SV is pretty much unwinnable. But if you're better skillwise then you stand a chance...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Well I would still strike them. Why give your opponent any sort of advantage? even if your better than the.

 

[Teh Brettster]

^ What he said.

No matter what, you should still ban and CP in your own favor. Otherwise you're making their chances better.
Mediocre Falcos can still beat good Ikes on FD..

 

[Ussi]

They DO get a CP on you too... IMO mediocre have very easy to follow patterns.

Also FD is my personal best nuetral stage >_> So yea....

 

[Melfice z]

I always seem to do well against falcos that atleast know what theyre doing... but its still obvious ike has a terrible disadvantage here. Im not so sure why SV is so bad, but the stage isnt as long as fd, still has a lip, and the mobile platform can make getting through laser spam easier; not to mention at higher percents i can get a b/f-throw kill if the platform is far off enough.

With that out of the way id just say that playing a solid arial game and using the first two hits of jab is key for the early percents. n-airs, retreating f-airs, and jabbing when they go for the grab works well for me, and even still a rising reflector and lasers cuts through that

i stand at 65:35, but maybe i just havnt played any great Falcos

Does any of this sound too far off? i just woke up and typed this pretty fast ^__^

Edit: snake next? =3

Edit2:do i just kill these threads?

 

[Guilhe]

Write up by Light at the Ike Detailed Matchup Discussion

Falco Lombardi

Speed (Running and attack) : ****
Power (Killing moves and damage racking): ****
Range (Priority and hitbox) : ***
Recovery : **

Character Strengths: Great projectile, 0-45% chaingrab, powerful spike
Character Weaknesses: Light, poor recovery, non-spike finishers hard to land.

Recommended Counterpick: Lylat Cruise / Green Greens

Star Fox’s sharpshooter has returned to the Brawl. In a starling twist, instead of the cast chaingrabbing Falco, now Falco chaingrabs the cast! With a revamped, swift moveset, a stunning projectile, and a fantastic spike, Falco is a clearly good fighter and one of Ike’s harder match-ups.

Let us begin with analyzing the chaingrab. If you are grabbed at 0%, Falco can, very easily, down throw you, regrab and then down throw again until 45%. On other characters, this can go to a spike and instant death. Ike can save himself by using Aether to get back on the edge, but after the chaingrab and the spike, you’ll be up quite a few percentage points. Falco has, essentially, cut your survivability by quite a bit. You can avoid this by a) Not getting grabbed. b) Using Aether or trying to get out otherwise, in case they mess up and c) Try to position yourself on a platform, as the CG won't last for especially long then. You should also try to be near the center of the stage, so you don’t get hit with the spike.

Falco has a second method of dealing reliable damage to you, using the blaster. The blaster is a blue ray that travels across the screen and deals 3% (It degrades, of course) upon first use. While it may not seem like much, the old reliable strategy of “blaster until they approach, then CG” works on practically every character not named Game and Watch. It has a flinch effect, so you’ll be hard pressed to just walk through it. Falco can also negate the lag on the gun by Short Hopping and Double Lasering (SHDL) to create a wall of the lasers. In addition, if you fail to tech a hit, he can laser lock you in place by just firing and you’ll be dragged across the screen, taking considerable damage. The second thing about the blaster is that it continuously refreshes Falco’s moves, so by using the blaster his killing moves will be fresh.

Falco’s main method of racking up damage outside of the CG and blasters will be his shine, which comes out fast and deals decent damage. It has some cooldown time, so punish him if he misses. His jab is nice, and it may very well lead to a grab, a shine, and such. DI out of it so you don’t take much damage. He also has his good aerial game, with the neutral aerial being especially good, as it does nice damage AND goes into Falco’s jab combo.

Falco has a few methods of killing you. The first is his ability to spike you with the Down Aerial. This is a powerful spike that should be meteor cancelled instantly and then you Aether back to the edge. If you are considerable far away from the stage or at high percents, however, getting back may not be a possibility. On the stage, his main way to kill you will be his powerful forward smash. The move has two drawbacks, however: First off, it’s pretty slow at winding up. And secondly, if he tippers it, it’ll do pitiful knockback. Keep your spacing and you won’t be affected by the move. His up and down smashes are good (Especially the Dash to Up Smash cancel, boost smash), but they kill late, especially on a heavier character like Ike. His Back Aerial is decent if you’re closer to the edge, but it’s still not great at killing either.

Ike’s main goal here is to get close and rack up the damage. When you do approach him, he’ll either Phantasm away, go for a CG if you’re at the right percentage, or just roll away. Figure out his pattern and punish him for it. He has a fast spotdodge as well, and the downsmash comes out right after it, so be careful. When you get close, you’ll either want to get a jab in, grab and get follow up. Naturally, you can’t be grabbed if you’re in the air, but his aerial game is fast, so consider that.

When you’ve dealt enough damage and knock him away, he’ll be DIing upwards. This is so he can Phantasm back to the edge, instead of using his Firebird recovery. If he misses the stage with phantasm, punish it with any powerful move, it’ll probably kill him. If he gets the ledge, he may try to jump and laser. Stop this with a dash attack. If he’s forced to use the Firebird recovery, just edgehog him. Falco has one of the game’s poorer recoveries, really. To finish him off otherwise, you’ve got a few options aside from punishing one of his moves. The Back aerial is faster than all of your kill moves and can compete with Falco in the air easily, so that’s good. The up aerial can kill him if he goes for a spike, and if he’s coming down in general. The forward tilt is good if he tries to jab you or use a close combat move. And, finally, the Up Smash punishes airdodges and kills really early.

To Counterpick Falco, you may want to try Green Greens, to stop CGs and lasers.. Lylat Cruise can mess with Falco’s recovery easily and ruin the CG. Norfair can stop Falco if you know what you’re doing, otherwise don’t pick the stage. Corneria is simply always good. Battlefield is your neutral of choice if Lylat is banned, but do be careful of Falco’s Nair if you’re platform camping.
Falco is probably Ike’s hardest match. As such, it’s not expected to be easy by any stretch of the imagination. You’ll have to get past the CG and blasters, then deal with Falco’s CQC game. Thankfully, Falco’s poor recovery and light weight make this a definitely possible match to win, you’ve just got to play smart.

 

[Guilhe]

Recommended stage counterpick and banning

Counterpick

Lylat Cruise
While the tilting of this stage can compromise your recovery, it does mess with Falco far more:

The spacies dread this stage. Fox and Falco hate it since they have to use their Up B instead of side B, because they’ll have to go onto the stage with side B, making it easier to punish since aiming for the ledge could be their stock due to tilting. Wolf just gets ***** here. He dreads this stage so much; it’s normally his banned stage. But it’s always a nice place to bring him too if you have the choice. Heck the tilting ruins their game projectile game against you. Falco loses everything he has on you in this stage, Fox’s usmash takes longer to kill you with, and Wolf can’t recover back without getting punished or missing the ledge. A prefect counterpick against them.

Brinstar
This stage short length and irregularity removes Falco's greatest strengths against Ike. Namely his camping prowess and CG. The lava actually helps at the recovery of both characters, still Ike can sustain its damage much longer than Falco.

Banning

Jungle Japes
This stage was made for Falco. The CG -> Dair can easily spike opponents into the current, and from the left of the stage that means death for Ike. Not only that but due to the stage design, Falco can more easily camp and avoid your approaches and edgeguard attempts.

Final Destination
This lengthy stage is the paradise of campers due to its length and lack of obstructions.

 

[Marauder]

Has a concrete ratio been decided?

 

[Kirk]

Most annoying thing ever right here:

Falco's Spotdodge:

Invincibility frames: 2-20
Ends on frame: 22

...

****ING STUPID!!!

 

[Palpi]

Spotdodge -> usmash with falco is a legit combo!!!!!!!!

If you enjoy rainbow cruse as ike, don't hesitate to choose it either.

 

[Kirk]

If you enjoy rainbow cruse as ike, don't hesitate to choose it either.

Truth.

I've yet to lose against Falco @Rainbow Cruise.

 

[WingBr]

Hey, I'm having trouble with this match up. A friend of mine is playing falco in a very gay way, he basically shielding and grabing me every time I aproach. Most of my aproaches are shield cancelled dashes to jab, and they fail almost every time (he simply shields and grabs, too easy). If I try to nair, it have to be perferct spaced, otherwise it gets power shielded and then, guess what? I get grabbed! Same for Fair. The best I can do is spot dodge or barrel roll, which don't give me any advantage besides not getting hit. Well, while in theory I should only do perfect spaced nairs and fairs, that doens't happens in reality =\.
One solution I have thought is, instead of jab, I should dash grab him (he probably would be defending, so i should get the grab). But that only solves one problem, the ground aproach. What should I do while in the air (and not getting hit by lasers?). Is running -> SHAD a good aproach in that case? Also, what is the best way to punish a phantom? I usually use fair or usmash, but meh, they almost never hit.
Anyone have any suggestion to play a defensive character like this one? Thanks a lot.

P.S.: I've read the whole thread, at least twice (one long time ago, and one before posting this) and no, I won't post this in ashunera because it fits better here.

 

[Somebody Else]

Running SHAD is a good option. If you can do it, powershield his lasers a lot. FAir helps if you can space it well, and get back out of the way of a grab attempt. Dashgrab? Don't try it, he can spotdodge it ridiculously easily and grab you. Spotdodge ->Jab helps a lot in this matchup, since his lag after attempting a grab is pretty long.

 

[WingBr]

I think dashgrab will be useful because he probably won't be waiting, and that will help mix things up and help me be a more unpredictable. The biggest problem is that I don't have time to spotdodge, he can shield grab me before I get the chance do spot dodge =\.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*mutters something about checking last post date next time before posting in a topic*

Even if you've read the topic twice: post in the Library. These topics aren't for personal help, they are for summaries and the INITIAL discussion. After that, take it to the Library, just make sure you are precise with what you need help with, and explain that you have read the MU/explain what part that the MU topic didn't cover well enough for you/explain what you just simply need more advise with.

 

[Somebody Else]

NAir -> Spotdodge isn't shieldgrabbable with good spacing, afaik.

 

[WingBr]

I honestly don't get what is the problen in posting in a old topic when the subject belongs to it. It seens the veterans here almost always tell to post in the library, and that's why we only have very few topics and different people come with the same problem: it's too hard to find what you want in a topic with 467 pages while most of them are filled with general discussion. Don't get me wrong, I read the library almost every day (at least every time I visit SBR) and I don't think a new tread should be created to clarify every single and small doubt, but IMO it would be way better if we could do a better job organizing our forum. I posted here because I thought that since the subject is falco related, and this thread is used to discuss this match up, it would suit better here, and maybe help to improve some aspect of the match up. If I had posted this in the library, probably it wouldn't be tanken so seriously since someone sould come talking about some randon stuff and the subject would be redirected to it.

That is how I think, but if posting here was so wrong, then someone should contact a moderator or something to delete those posts.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What you're asking for is personal help against a specific Falco.

This isn't a personal help topic. This is a general information/MU summery and explanation. If something new comes up for the MU (such as lets say we found out a cool combo on Falco), then we would bump the topic accordingly. But not just for advise.

Post a video in the video topic, and we can tell you exactly what to do (or at least as close to exact as possible.) The Library is both a discussion topic AND a Q&A topic. Problem is, nobody bothers with the Q&A part of the topic, which makes this board more cluttered with random topics, and old topics being bumped when it's not needed.

The vets around here use the Library when they do have questions, it's just that we honestly don't have that many questions anymore. Doesn't mean you shouldn't use the Library for one of it's purposes though. We will answer the question there, and it won't require bumping old topics, which WOULD make the board more cluttered. Can you image if new people kept coming in, bumping up old MU topics to ask questions. That would be basically all you could see on the first page. Not good.

 

[Guilhe]

We will answer the question there, and it won't require bumping old topics, which WOULD make the board more cluttered. Can you image if new people kept coming in, bumping up old MU topics to ask questions. That would be basically all you could see on the first page. Not good.

Bumping matchup topics is fine by me. I would like to see the front page filled with active matchup discussions, even if it’s only Q&A, maybe we could derive something from that. Back on topic, there is no other way WingBr (Você é Brasileiro?). You must space yourself correctly in order to avoid the risk of a shieldgrab. What I patiently powershield the lasers and space your jabs as well, as they have more range than Falco’s grab. Be wary he can still use his shine at this range though.

 

[clowsui]

falco/marth combo seems to be very popular in terms of mains + secondaries, don't be surprised if you get a marth on rainbow (he isn't TERRIBLE there, just not great) or brinstar

 

[Palpi]

Falco/Marth is a decent combo, because marth beats IC, Kirby, Pikachu. Or Falco/Metaknight, and taking him to rainbow cruise would kill you haha.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bumping matchup topics is fine by me. I would like to see the front page filled with active matchup discussions, even if it’s only Q&A, maybe we could derive something from that.

But thats not MU discussion, it's Q&A time spread over who knows how many topics. >_>

 

[WingBr]

Bumping matchup topics is fine by me. I would like to see the front page filled with active matchup discussions, even if it’s only Q&A, maybe we could derive something from that. Back on topic, there is no other way WingBr (Você é Brasileiro?). You must space yourself correctly in order to avoid the risk of a shieldgrab. What I patiently powershield the lasers and space your jabs as well, as they have more range than Falco’s grab. Be wary he can still use his shine at this range though.

I see Guilhe thinks the same way as I do about this: we may actually get something good from the discussion. Back at the subject, I guess the problem is with the running->shield->
jab aproach, Ike still slides a little bit after the first jab (which is the one I'm trying to space correctly), and I think that's why falco can shield grab him, is that correct? Also, what is the best way to DI/SDI out of falco's jab? Away from him? Do Di/SDI out help ike in any way to a counter atack (maybe with nair)? And you guys never told me what is that best option to counter the ilusion, what I usually do when I see it coming is run away then USmash, is that any other eficient way?

To Guilhe: Sou brasileiro sim, de Fortaleza/Ce \o. To por aqui quase sempre, só que posto pouco, meu ingles nao é lá essas coisas todas hehe. Vlw pela ajuda aí Guilhe.

 

[theeboredone]

I see Guilhe thinks the same way as I do about this: we may actually get something good from the discussion. Back at the subject, I guess the problem is with the running->shield->
jab aproach, Ike still slides a little bit after the first jab (which is the one I'm trying to space correctly), and I think that's why falco can shield grab him, is that correct? Also, what is the best way to DI/SDI out of falco's jab? Away from him? Do Di/SDI out help ike in any way to a counter atack (maybe with nair)? And you guys never told me what is that best option to counter the ilusion, what I usually do when I see it coming is run away then USmash, is that any other eficient way?

To Guilhe: Sou brasileiro sim, de Fortaleza/Ce \o. To por aqui quase sempre, só que posto pouco, meu ingles nao é lá essas coisas todas hehe. Vlw pela ajuda aí Guilhe.

This isn't a match up discussion, this is you needing help. I agree with Niddo, go into the Q&A for personal help.

Match up discussion = Facts on both characters and using logic to determine a ratio.

Personal match up help = I suck at something, so I should ask people what to do.

 

[Guilhe]

This isn't a match up discussion, this is you needing help. I agree with Niddo, go into the Q&A for personal help.
Match up discussion = Facts on both characters and using logic to determine a ratio.
Personal match up help = I suck at something, so I should ask people what to do.

That's an good argument. WingBR please refer to the Library's Q&A, or PM me, or go to 1upsmash.zip.net where you’ll find lots of brazillian smashers willing to help you.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

....

That's basically what I said, but it wasn't a good argument then?

YOU B RACIST AGAINST CANADIANS!

Alright, enough of the off topic.

 

[Palpi]

Guilhe does that. He tends to only read posts if it by a high level player. Kimchi knows what I am talking about.