Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Gamegenie222]

Falco got them NBA jumps man and he's still good and like what Seagull said underrated. Once Wii U version drops I'm gonna give my bird some mad lab time and try out all those AT and still rep the bird. By that time I can help contribute stuff to the boards for Falco if necessary.

 

[Jabzilla]

I've been short hopping phantasm recently into either a bair or a uair if I get the phantasm hit. It works but I don't know if it was whether the opponent was still stunned or they just didn't predict the punish. You have to be a roll distance away to actually make it work though. I will look into it more but it could be a potential combo. You can also do utilt not long after sh phantasm. Only downside is you can't shorten the phantasm when short-hopping.

But yeah, I have to agree with everyone here that the majority of players are hating on Falco's nerfs in this game. He is more in your face now rather than a camper. I still like him so I am going to stick with him.

 

[A Gray Person]

Well I looked at the DACUS thread and it saddens me we see no usmash pressure, though if Falco is much more up close compared to Brawl then we might see him lay down some sick slams...

Falco got them NBA jumps man and he's still good and like what Seagull said underrated.

Damn it now I wanna see some edit or picture of Falco as a NBA player.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Falco got them NBA jumps man and he's still good and like what Seagull said underrated.

I need an NBA Jam picture with Falco in it now.

Falco's dunking with his up-b, "He's on fire!!"

 

[Gamegenie222]

I would also want that pic as well and I'm horrible at drawing stuff so I can't do anything about that. This Falco pic that I found will suffice in the meantime.

 

[saviorslegacy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7sW97NU-R4&feature=youtu.be
You can do this too. Have fun with the timing though.

To perform simply be close to the ledge if not right on top of the ledge, auto attack, let sheik fall off when she goes to finish the attack and buffer a Nair or a Fair,

 

[Conda]

Just had an awesome time with Falco and have to share some things I've learnt. I have been doing the same with Bowser Jr lately and trying to figure out what he can be strong at. My other fav is Ness, but he has weaknesses that top players always get used to taking advantage of, and they haven't really gone away, so I don't see him as a dependable character to main.
But Falco? Oh boy, he's quite the beast.


I'm finding Falco to be VERY good. I think we're seelping on him - his neutral game is absurdly good. He has great moves to use at every angle that combo at low %s and kill at high %. Vertically he can combo even on high knockback moves due to his jump height. He has, great specials, awesome customs (fast firebird and down B 3 are great options), and amazing offstage game.


Seriously, offstage is absurdly good. Due to his fall speed and the nature of his aerials, he can swoop in within the blink of an eye and confidently edgeguard.
Facing forward you can fair gimp which drags them down and then sends the horizontally, and Falco can recover no problem thanks to his ridiculous jump height. Facing backward you can use his instant-bair which is super powerful - we just haven't really been using it as well as we could due to the control stick.

The spike is still great, no reason to think it's bad - yeah it's not instant, but Smash bros has been removing more and more instant spikes in each game and replacing them with wind-up ones. Yeah it'd be nice to have the broken insta-spike, but now it's balanced like Ness's, Falcon's, DK's, Samus's, etc. It's still a VERY powerful spike for Falco's weight class, and Falco's jumping physics make it very easy to land this move.

To spike, simply jump off the ledge toward a recovering opponent - fall below them and let them get above you. Then you use Falco's super fast double jump and DAIR at the same time to swoop up - by the time you reach your height, your dair hit and your foe gets spiked. You can do this at super low percents and it's safe because of how safely you set it up - if you don't think you can hit your opponent, don't DJ up and simply return to stage. If you miss, you can get back to the stage super quick from your position. As a non-floatie, you have the ability to surprise your foe with a spike in ways most characters cannot.


But enough about the spike - fair is absolutely amazing as a multi-hit as it's completely inescapable and you can drag foes down, up, or wherever you want.

Uair is a beast - a falcon/kirby/etc esque arc kick that is super easy to land compared to Fox's, and Falco's jump height means you can combo into this easily, and can swoop up to land a killing blow just like Fox can. The only difference is Falco can go MUCH higher than Fox, and thus can reach foes near the blast line to land that amazing KO hit (you can also FAir if you like).

You can also pull off uair-bair combos high in the sky, I've done it twice in the past handful of matches unintentionally. Definitely want to master this. Uair at low percents has low knockback that lets you pull stuff like this off, yet you can do a different version of it at higher percents. You jump -> uair -> DJ to foe's position and bair or fair .

Falco's jumping style is the thing that enables him to be great in the air. We're focusing too much on his lasers and dair nerf and not realising what he can do in the air now that hitstun is a thing.


And my favourite thing of all - dtilt. A killer at 120~, and super SUPER quick. This OOS to punish attacks is very dependable. Barely any need to try and land a smash attack if the foe is in front of you at at 120~, just dtilt. If they survive, pursue them into the sky and land a fair, bair, or uair as all of them will kill that high. That's what's amazing about Falco - he really does prefer the sky in Smash 4.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Just walk around using that stupid good ftilt and jab when people get in.

Dude can still reset to neutral whenever he wants. Also one of his side b customs is basically a teleport.

His neutral and footsies are still hella nice.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Falco is a combo madman.

SH Uair > SH Bair > Up angled F-tilt > single jab > D-tilt.

whaaaaaaat ***** ain't nerfed.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Anyone here have experience against Villager with Falco? I played this MU against a local player online in my area and this is my new hated match.

 

[BltzZ]

Anyone here have experience against Villager with Falco? I played this MU against a local player online in my area and this is my new hated match.

Yeah I find it fun most of them time let them plant the tree and reflect it back at them when they chop it. So far I haven't been able go fair gimp villagers they're recovery is just really good lol. I just annoy them as much as possible with the reflector or you can keep it fresh for the tree kills

 

[V_x_I_D]

SH Fair, SH Fair, SH Fair.
Like butter, my friends.

 

[Shaya]

I love the way Forward Air lands on the ground with a hitbox with an animation that looks like his down smash.

Drill Pick was one of my favourite moves in Brawl out of EVERYTHING, and now it's just super special awesome useful in a LOT of scenarios.

 

[nottl]

Hello. I am a vetern FGC player picking up smash for the first time. This question is likely very scrubby and this is my first post, so I hope this is the right place to ask something like this, haha...

I am unclear on the properties of Falco's Phantasm. I try to use this move as a whiff punish, particularly since I read the thread about the reduced recovery of a hopped version. However, I seem to frequently have this move pass harmlessly through the opponent. (I am not using any customs.) I whiffed through a Palutena who was mid up-smash, and I have several, several, several times passed through Zelda mid Din's Fire. It only seems to happen while they are mid-move. But it doesn't always happen?

I guess, my question, summarized: what is the property in smash that is causing this to happen?

 

[BltzZ]

Hello. I am a vetern FGC player picking up smash for the first time. This question is likely very scrubby and this is my first post, so I hope this is the right place to ask something like this, haha...

I am unclear on the properties of Falco's Phantasm. I try to use this move as a whiff punish, particularly since I read the thread about the reduced recovery of a hopped version. However, I seem to frequently have this move pass harmlessly through the opponent. (I am not using any customs.) I whiffed through a Palutena who was mid up-smash, and I have several, several, several times passed through Zelda mid Din's Fire. It only seems to happen while they are mid-move. But it doesn't always happen?

I guess, my question, summarized: what is the property in smash that is causing this to happen?

The hit box for phantasm is now much smaller towards the last 1/3 he travels doesn't hit :/ breaks my heart

 

[nottl]

I've been much closer then that, I feel like, and still whiffed through attacks. It never seems to happen if they are moving/neutral, but always when they are performing an action.

Still, your explanation is the most reasonable thing I can think of thus far. It's really bad when hitboxes don't matchup with move animations in any game.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Any talk of a Falco Skype group?

 

[BltzZ]

Any talk of a Falco Skype group?

Lol I've heard nothing but I'd be cool with that. I went back to brawl yesterday for little and his phantasm is crazy faster in Brawl I didn't realize it and hits all the way through

 

[Charhazzard]

I'm really loving the fast firebird custom now, after using it a few times I realized it's a great tool for approach regaining neutral spacing and keeping constant aggro.

Here's a short vid of me trying to get used to fast firebird. Maybe you guys can apply this to your game as well.Ssb4 Falco fast fire bird: http://youtu.be/yveFPu2PGmY

 

[Shaya]

Is it shorter in range than the default? Doesn't seem to be by much if it is.

I think the obvious thing here to ask is, why not use side-b instead? It looks like the move hits only once?
Is it a much better hit box size or active frames?

I personally prefer the longer/slower one just so I can basically always recover. I like going off stage with falco a bit, and sometimes you do want to use your mid air jump to try and ensure you can get the back air. I seem to always get back from those situations and I'm sure I wouldn't make it otherwise.

 

[Charhazzard]

Side b has slower start up and end lag plus the hit box on side b doesn't seem to cover the whole animation. There's been plenty times I used side b and just phased right through them with no damage.

On the recovery part I'm able to do all the off stage kills I normally would do without worrying about dying just via recovery fail. As long as u have your second jump you'll almost never miss the stage.

 

[Conda]

Is it shorter in range than the default? Doesn't seem to be by much if it is.

I think the obvious thing here to ask is, why not use side-b instead? It looks like the move hits only once?
Is it a much better hit box size or active frames?

I personally prefer the longer/slower one just so I can basically always recover. I like going off stage with falco a bit, and sometimes you do want to use your mid air jump to try and ensure you can get the back air. I seem to always get back from those situations and I'm sure I wouldn't make it otherwise.

It is shorter, but it carries a bit of momentum at the end of it, so it has a huge sweetspot range when trying to grab the ledge. You can use it very low and, while you won't reach the ledge, you'll snap to it. So it's not really much shorter than the default in practical use. And it's gamechanging enough for Falco mobility-wise that it should be used over it, imo. It offers a movement option and reset option that I can definitely see becoming a staple for certain Falco players.

I feel the same way about Fire Arrows for Toon Link - it's the kind of custom moves that offers a strong option that can change your playstyle.

 

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

I've always been interested in Falco because I really like Fox.

I've only played Sm4sh Falco, but I really like this version. Fair is a very nice move. I've always thought that it was a good move when I first started to practiced with him. It's very viable and safe off ledge, in spite of being multihit. Uair is also a good combo move. Having different angled F-tilts also gives him more options when it comes to combos. I also think that D-tilt can be a good combo starter in spite of its range. Utilt I only see as an anti air, and up arc f-tilt would work better.

When it comes to punishing, I tend to use Dsmash more due to it being faster. Fsmash I only use for reading bad recoveries. Of all of his throws, I find his Bthrow and Dthrow to be the most useful. Bthrow for Kills, and Dthrow for combos and Dair setups at percentages like 40 or 50.

I don't know why, but I use Down B more in far ranged combat more than Neutral B. I think it's because the move trips sometimes, which can create some setups.

After reading the threads, I'm glad that I'm not the only who thinks that Falco is underrated in this game. I think he feels quite polished and can dish out some good damage. I don't think that he's amazing, but his tools and combogame makes him a treat.

 

[Charhazzard]

This video shows the importance of good spacing and how missed edge guarding can bite you in the butt lol.

Ssb4 Falco (Grinch) vs Fox (Keo):http://youtu.be/sX32OF1qpyw

This video shows the importance of good spacing and how missed edge guarding can bite you in the butt lol.

Ssb4 Falco (Grinch) vs Fox (Keo):http://youtu.be/sX32OF1qpyw

 

[Shaya]

Actually, does that up-b variation combo set up at all?

I've been having great success with spacing falco's side b and using it as combo starter / kill set up from 80%+ upwards. You do have to hit them towards the end of the hitbox, but that's not a problem considering his other long range capabilities (laser / down b).

I use falco's up throw the most. The speed at which he gets to you can be faster than reaction, just short hop after one to see the jump + air dodge every single time, then fast fall then use full hop double jumps for funsies. That's at the "early percent" stages where it's still a frame trap, but otherwise at the right percent it's still leading straight into up air or back air.

Down Throw obviously good for dash attack and forward air set ups.

 

[Charhazzard]

Actually, does that up-b variation combo set up at all?

I've been having great success with spacing falco's side b and using it as combo starter / kill set up from 80%+ upwards. You do have to hit them towards the end of the hitbox, but that's not a problem considering his other long range capabilities (laser / down b).

I use falco's up throw the most. The speed at which he gets to you can be faster than reaction, just short hop after one to see the jump + air dodge every single time, then fast fall then use full hop double jumps for funsies. That's at the "early percent" stages where it's still a frame trap, but otherwise at the right percent it's still leading straight into up air or back air.

The custom Up B can lead into Bair at high % and at low % it can sometimes lead into utilt strings

 

[Zionaze]

Did this with falco to a gannondorf: Down throw, shnair fast fall, down throw, shnair fast fall, down throw, shfair
Also down grab chain with a jab mixed in betwesible, it looks escapable but ve been able to chain up to 3 down throws due to opponents trying to nair instead of jump...seems you have to wait for the instant your shield comes up after your first jab for the second grab or else the game turns it into a second jab.

Dair nerf´s only upside are the bounce mechanics , dair a hitstunned opponent for followups if they don´t tech (see shofu vs zef)...still sucks though. I don´t feel the spike is strong enough at medium percent offstage, and at high percent it just feels better and easier to just bair for the kill.

No helplessness state after phantasm isn´t that great, the animation after takes too long to do anything creative with it off stage, it pretty much has to be used above platform level if you want to be able to recover after. Phantasm is pretty good for chasing (to travel not to hit) and following up combos since there´s so much knockback in the game...it still spikes in air but the hitbox is kinda small making it hard to hit.

The lasers are basically an anti camping tool...and otherwise seem pretty useless...sadly no comboing them into stunned upsmashes this game.

Uptilt very good. down tilt very good.

I still really like falco and look forward to learning from what others can do with him.

ive done something simular but with more precision. d-throw > fair > d-throw > fair > f-throw

 

[Nysyr]

So I main Lucario and I am looking to pick up Falco as a second main to cover some holes in matchups (cough villager), and I have played a few matches online.

I'm curious how you approach the opponent reliably, since none of Falco's options are really safe on shield and his grab game is a bit meh due to his low speed. Surprisingly I struggle against my own main the most since Bair is hard to land onto Lucario just due to the big difference in jump/fall speed and Lucarios Fair being quite disjointed (online lag doesn't help lol). I also have no trouble against Falco as Lucario really since Falco just doesn't pressure enough.

I feel like RAR is probably the most safe approach option since it's decelty easy to space. I just feel against grounded characters he's pretty limited, and his offstage game is just too dangerous to risk vs most of the cast due to his pathetic distance on his double jump (sweet jeebus don't DJ before you spike lol).

Maybe just me, but utilt can't seem to hit at least half the cast on the ground and is only for comboing out of something.

Maybe they will buff his runspeed in a patch or something since I feel pretty gimp against characters I can't outcamp with Falco.

 

[meleebrawler]

So I main Lucario and I am looking to pick up Falco as a second main to cover some holes in matchups (cough villager), and I have played a few matches online.

I'm curious how you approach the opponent reliably, since none of Falco's options are really safe on shield and his grab game is a bit meh due to his low speed. Surprisingly I struggle against my own main the most since Bair is hard to land onto Lucario just due to the big difference in jump/fall speed and Lucarios Fair being quite disjointed (online lag doesn't help lol). I also have no trouble against Falco as Lucario really since Falco just doesn't pressure enough.

I feel like RAR is probably the most safe approach option since it's decelty easy to space. I just feel against grounded characters he's pretty limited, and his offstage game is just too dangerous to risk vs most of the cast due to his pathetic distance on his double jump (sweet jeebus don't DJ before you spike lol).

Maybe just me, but utilt can't seem to hit at least half the cast on the ground and is only for comboing out of something.

Maybe the will buff his runspeed in a patch or something since I feel pretty gimp against characters I can't outcamp with Falco.

Down B is key. It both answers long range fighters by reflecting their
projectiles, and outranges most melee moves. Many a dash-in
has been stopped by that trusty reflector. Pester them with it
to get them to make mistakes caused by frustration that Falco
can capitalize on.

 

[Shaya]

Falco's got a high tier walk. And his dashrun length is one of the shortest it looks like, making it very potent for minute/fast spacing, with being able to turn ftilt at any point during that dashrun is god like. Falco's ftilt is amazing; damage, range and angling, it's safe on shield with relatively easy spacing.

Falco's also in the top-caste for rolls, and with the amount of respect opponent's need to give to his short distance burst movements, he can reliably space and forward roll aggressively on reaction to people's miss spacing attempts trying to punish Falco.

Jab 1-2 is better than going for the multi jab, it's a little finicky to cancel in contrast to some others, but you should still be doing so.

His dash attack is fast and potent, and is seriously scary as an OoS punish, with power shields they're all but guaranteed. Great damage and great follow up potential.

Falco uses his tools to force close range game play, where he is superior at it than just about everyone else in the cast, really only having issues against the most potent rush down (who can still play at a range he doesn't deny the rest of the cast from playing at).


Walk and footsies (jabs, tilts, dash attack) are your basis, lasers/shine for forcing people to fight you. You have great close range mobility with crazy damage per hit. You land a move that sends people straight vertically (up throw, dash attack, up smash, up tilt, down tilt, up air, sour spot down smash, side b) at the right percents to give you guaranteed follow ups from a double jump for damage/combos or the kill.

 

[Ffamran]

If this wasn't known already, Falco can reflect behind himself right when Reflector activates. Plus, Din's Fire is counted as a projectile right when it activates, so you can use Reflector on it, but it's incredibly risky compared to using Fox's Reflector, the various Counters, and just outright getting away from it.

So, I'm having fun with Falco, but lag is hella annoying since it makes playing as him and everyone else awkward.

 

[Nysyr]

He really does feel a lot more gimped from online lag than most of the other characters, except maybe fox. I'm not sure why honestly, its probably due to him being more strict with timing on his combos and jab cancel.

 

[Ffamran]

He really does feel a lot more gimped from online lag than most of the other characters, except maybe fox. I'm not sure why honestly, its probably due to him being more strict with timing on his combos and jab cancel.

Yeah, it's really rough with Falco when there's lag. Either his moves comes out slower than most of the cast which I doubt for most of his moves like his Up Smash and Side Tilt or lag is causing huge delays. I find myself just stopping in the middle of dashes, using a Tilt when I want a Smash, hopping instead of jumping, using Blaster repeatedly when I just wanted to shoot once and use something else like his Reflector, and aerials are almost impossible to use when lag destroys momentum.

Anyway, has anyone tried a Dair into an Up Smash or Up Tilt or any other move? I don't know if it's just something that works on Ganondorf and other similar sized characters - it's really difficult to land a short hopped Bair with say, Pikachu or Jigglypuff, than with Ike or Shulk. I was able to use that combo on a Ganondorf, I think, 2 times. The spike launches enough for an Up Smash to connect. It's a risky combo considering the end lag and the "freeze" frames Falco has - this reminds me of Wolf's Side Tilt - that allows an opponent to punish easily.

Speaking of Dair, I just watched - finally - a Falco player end a match with a Dair. Classic. Just freaking classic. First Falco player I've seen online (through spectating) and it was amazing to watch.

 

[Shaya]

Stuff like Side-B in lag is pretty stupid though.

 

[Ffamran]

Stuff like Side-B on wifi in lag is pretty stupid though.

Anything with lag is stupid.

 

[Shaya]

Well, for something that cannot be reacted to in lag that's just short of half of FD in length, and is a combo move at nearly ever percent, by it's nature it's a lot harder to punish in lag as well.

I don't find him that hard to use on wifi. Having so many hit confirm stuff that only requires 2 inputs (jump + something) to follow up on is quite easy. Jabbing is fast and long range as is dash attack, easy to beat dodges with it. Lasers force approaches and people don't punish it in point blank range when it hits their shield.
Forcing things are hard on Wifi with him for sure, but eh, people get pretty annoyed getting dash attacked/jabbed all day and getting lasered every time they try to charge aurasphere, really not much sweat off of my back.

 

[Ffamran]

Well, for something that cannot be reacted to in lag that's just short of half of FD in length, and is a combo move at nearly ever percent, by it's nature it's a lot harder to punish in lag as well.

I don't find him that hard to use on wifi. Having so many hit confirm stuff that only requires 2 inputs (jump + something) to follow up on is quite easy. Jabbing is fast and long range as is dash attack, easy to beat dodges with it. Lasers force approaches and people don't punish it in point blank range when it hits their shield.
Forcing things are hard on Wifi with him for sure, but eh, people get pretty annoyed getting dash attacked/jabbed all day and getting lasered every time they try to charge aurasphere, really not much sweat off of my back.

For me, it's the input lag that makes me feel like I can't do a thing. Falco's pretty straightforward and has a ton of tools to space people and interrupt, but that means nothing when you can't use them because of lag. He's easy to control and not super technical like I don't know, Duck Hunt and Megaman?

 

[FlynnCL]

Attention awesome Falco players!

Something I'd like to work on, if you guys would like it too; a "Community Guide" that details Falco's entire moveset alongside varied community agreed opinions on each move and their uses. I'd like to think of it as the best place for new Falco players to go because of its collective views, FAQ's about techniques and strategies.

An example of what it'd look like:

Neutral Attack

DAMAGE: (3%) + (2%) + (~1% rapid) + (3%)
KO: 300%

Player 1: Blah blah blah. Specifically use only jab 1 and get a free grab or another jab depending on what your opponent does.
Player 2: Extremely useful, but it's possible to miss if an opponent is too close to you, as Falco leans forward during this attack.
Player 3: Love this move. If you use your jab finisher against an opponent right at the edge it will cancel all ending lag. Like so;

​

Something like that, but obviously with better opinions than my stock ones. Your thoughts? It'd be a pretty big project that can always change.

 

[JamesUK7]

@ FlynnCL Dude that looks really awesome! You really should give it a go! Might inspire more people to pick up Falco as well!

 

[Nysyr]

Just curious, is nair the best move for air dodge canceling? Seems to be the only move that autocancels on the appropriate frame after the buffered SH air dodge. Unfortunately we don't get a hitbox out from what I've seen so no shieldstun.

Timing is quite strict, so much so I usually just settle for the jab/tilt rather than trying to grab them just so I can mash A to get the move off in time @.@

Edit: Also what's the best way to actually land the spike? I generally can't time it unless they are being really predictable with their recovery, or I do it while travelling upwards from the doublejump from under them (as long as they don't also have a spike). If I don't do it while jumping up I have a good chance to SD from doing a fastfall lol.