Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Sir Tundra]

I think a viable kill setup with side b would be to use it under the ledge as a surprise attack.

Edit: Another option could be wall jump to side b.

 

[ImaClubYou]

I believe the problem with that is that Falco' side B hitbox is way too small to be using it in such a situation.

 

[Sir Tundra]

True.. I guess this would make his side b a more high risk high reward thing then.

 

[Shaya]

finally got to sit down and play the game, did a bit of Falco, definitely couldn't compete with him online as well as I did with Marth. I've seen other wifalcos with the side-b crap but meh.

SHDL forces approaches. It's not god. But it forces approaches. I like this. With less wifi lag (i.e. real play) and competence with control scheme and I'll be rocking.

Also on three occasions I was able to hit people with grounded lasers as they were trying to sweetspot the ledge: Little Mac (seems about right), Rosalina, Palutena.
Laser somehow hit them below the ledge / before they could sweetspot, and they all fell to their deaths. I don't really understand how/why but it was amazing. Try it out! It may have something to do with landing with a laser ("SHDL") or just its standard grounded laser affair.

Down tilt looks really buffed in this game and I just wasn't feeling it in mindset to use, although when I did I was always surprised/happy.

Killing really really sucks though, holy crap.

Up tilt / nair / dash attack / down tilt / jab are his bread and butter I think. I think he'll struggle against some of the zoning characters in this game, as they rely less on just "projectile spam" and more "projectile zoning". Like, his ability to punish them successfully and get follow ups in general seems low. So at the moment, I feel a little underwhelmed by shine and it's capabilities, but maybe with more time/expertise/better ping to react to **** and it'll be golden.

Going off stage is... hard, not sure about that yet.
Back air is good ("broken") at its optimal usages (the well spaced auto cancelled back air on shield is something I have not not gotten a follow up from yet), but is rather meh otherwise (definitely a significant cut to Falco's back air in Brawl which was a "God Kick": disjointed vertically, hits infront of him, animation has him swinging his foot around in a circle thus not leaving his hurtbox out/displaced for elongated periods).

The Down air feels kinda good as some sort of fast full hop juggle option, and also edge guarding, otherwise soso?

Ultimately the weakness that he suffered in Brawl against Ice Climbers, not having a safe frontal horizontal option (because lasers jab was useless) is pretty... apparent. I doubt we'll be able to do well spaced neutral airs into landing well spaced jabs/tilts, so I think we'll have to learn to back air, buffering and also take a significant course in spacing. I guess he really has gone kinda Wolfie in design.

Also ledge drop down Up-B is an interesting off stage choice to harass people recovering. Seems to have enough disjoint/hitboxes to kinda just clash/beat a lot of up bs. These FDs with easy techable walls makes it worthwhile

 

[Brango]

So far by reading this thread, his back air seems to be good. While I'm happy for that, I just need to practice how to do back air consistently. Yeah, I'm a scrub lol

 

[Ffamran]

Just thought about this and I want to know since this applies to pretty much every character: Are people trying to play characters differently? I mean more like messing around and finding out that there's a neat trick or combo.

I ask this because it seems like people are playing characters like they were in past games. Sure, it's normal to think that a character plays similarly like in past games, but different properties and changes heavily affect a character's play style. Even updates and patches can drastically change a character. Anyway, it seems like people are playing Falco, Fox, Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, and more like they were in Melee or Brawl even when it's known that they've been changed and the game's physics and such are different.

So, Falco and Fox can't zone anymore, Ike can't use his fair like he did in Brawl, and Link has a new dash attack that's telegraphed and can miss by jumping over someone. That doesn't mean they're bad now; they just have a different play style now. Fox can still chip damage from long range and he's still good in close combat. Falco can still hold his own without his Blaster and people did adapt to his Brawl Reflector.

 

[Brango]

Just thought about this and I want to know since this applies to pretty much every character: Are people trying to play characters differently? I mean more like messing around and finding out that there's a neat trick or combo.

I ask this because it seems like people are playing characters like they were in past games. Sure, it's normal to think that a character plays similarly like in past games, but different properties and changes heavily affect a character's play style. Even updates and patches can drastically change a character. Anyway, it seems like people are playing Falco, Fox, Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, and more like they were in Melee or Brawl even when it's known that they've been changed and the game's physics and such are different.

So, Falco and Fox can't zone anymore, Ike can't use his fair like he did in Brawl, and Link has a new dash attack that's telegraphed and can miss by jumping over someone. That doesn't mean they're bad now; they just have a different play style now. Fox can still chip damage from long range and he's still good in close combat. Falco can still hold his own without his Blaster and people did adapt to his Brawl Reflector.

Yea I understand what you mean. I think people just feel uncomfortable about change in general. It's gonna be like this when the next smash comes out. They're gonna be like "hey, this character doesn't play like smash 4, wth Sakurai".

Now I admit that I am kinda like this but I try to adapt to the new versions of Falco. I mean, it's not like Sakurai completely changed the character with all of his moves drastically different from previous installments. He made few tweaks here and there and Falco is still Falco, and I will try my best to accept it. Lol I'm a character loyalist, so I won't really switch characters just because Falco got nerfed or buffed.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Gotta say, I've never played Falco much in ANY Smash game (my Melee Falco is hilariously bad, considering I'm a Fox main), but this version is intriguing me for some reason. I'm definitely going to have to give him a try.

 

[S2rulL]

Don't worry, the only reason I'm looking at Falco in SSB3D/U is cus I played him in Brawl. Sure, no CGs to guaranteed death this time around, but the neutral and spacing looks relatively similar, minus the lasers, but I'm sure something will get worked out.

 

[Sir Tundra]

Don't worry, the only reason I'm looking at Falco in SSB3D/U is cus I played him in Brawl. Sure, no CGs to guaranteed death this time around, but the neutral and spacing looks relatively similar, minus the lasers, but I'm sure something will get worked out.

No chain grabs is actually a good and bad thing. On one hand some of Falco's best tool in brawl was chain grabbing due to the fact that he can chain grab every character in the game. However Chain Grabbing was also one of Falco's biggest gripes in smash bros(this also applies to fox). Due to falco's high falling speed and low airspeed one grab is all it really took to waste a stock on falco depending if the person doesn't mess up on stages like FD(Melee). However Grabbing Falco in brawl is a guaranteed stock with character's like Pikachu, D3, and Ice climbers(they infinite everyone) in every stage.

 

[Shaya]

Dedede doesn't chain grab Falco, although his tech options are so bad that getting grabbed by Dedede is still a bad thing.

Falco had his 0-50%, maybe a little bit higher based on the final follow up (dair-> regrab -> gatling, or dair -> fsmash, etc), but many other charcters in the high tier region also had similar things going for them.
The problem for Falco was him playing against characters who also could do 0-50%, if not higher, and killed Falco at like 100% while the opposing not being true at all (Olimar is a good example).

He was chained to "death" (or something horrendous either way) or near death by Ice Climbers, Marth, Wario, Pikachu, ZSS.

 

[Sir Tundra]

Dedede doesn't chain grab Falco, although his tech options are so bad that getting grabbed by Dedede is still a bad thing.

Falco had his 0-50%, maybe a little bit higher based on the final follow up (dair-> regrab -> gatling, or dair -> fsmash, etc), but many other charcters in the high tier region also had similar things going for them.
The problem for Falco was him playing against characters who also could do 0-50%, if not higher, and killed Falco at like 100% while the opposing not being true at all (Olimar is a good example).

He was chained to "death" (or something horrendous either way) or near death by Ice Climbers, Marth, Wario, Pikachu, ZSS.

Wait ZSS can infinite chain grab Falco. I haven't played brawl in ages but I never knew that ZSS is also a character who can chain grab Falco all over the place.

As a Falco main this hurts real deep.

 

[Shaya]

Down Smash locked Falco at certain percent for a long time, IIRC done properly will lead to to death.
I did say "chain" instead of "chain grabbed" for that reason

 

[Acton]

Just downloaded the game and played falco. . . pretty depressed! I feel like he has much less options then he did in brawl, and most of the things I did with him in brawl dont work now. It seems like all I'm doing with falco is dash attacking, jabbing, bair and nair and reading dodge rolls or ledge get ups with fsmash. . . kinda boring. Doesn't seem like he's going to be as fun to play as he used to be.

None of the other characters seem really attractive to me either. I loved falco in brawl because he was quick and there was so much to do with him. . . . I'm not going to jump the gun though, just have to see how the metagame develops for falco!

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

atleasy he still says hands off my bread

 

[Sol0ke]

I played Falco today and I think he's very good at close combat, but his camping and zoning game definitely took a hit.

Now his voice actor, I like. Unlike Fox's.

 

[rolrctermaniac]

I'm not going to jump the gun though

Not jumping the gun. No laser cancelling, I see what you did there

In seriousness I do like some of the buffs that he got but a lot of the nerfs definitely feel like over nerfs. they had no business slowing down the laser fire speed on top of removing the autocancelling on them. Also, I'm totally fine with the startup frames on his dair but the landing lag is so long! Everthing else about him does feel the same/better though shff bairs feel really nice too!

 

[Sir Tundra]

Played Falco last night and here's my analysis:

Pros:
Really good Close combat game
Amazing Combo potential
Great Jabbing Game
Dacus is still in the game but has received a hit in distance( This might be due to fact that theres no c-stick for the 3ds)
Down tilt can now kill at 130% at most characters making it almost as powerful as it was in melee
Bair is an amazing gimping tool
RAR still being in smash 4 makes bair an amazing approaching tool
The Recovery buff makes Falco harder to gimp
Ledge mechanics make Falco harder to gimp
Chain grabs being gone means that Falco no longer gets screwed over when getting grabbed by certain characters
Falco can now up throw up air like fox in melee. This can also link to a bair with certain characters
Down throw can be used as a combo setup
up tilt juggles at low percents
All of Nair and Fairs hits connect
Fast Falled Nair can lead to a grab
Pivot forward tilt/Side smash can lead to some heavy mix up's






Cons:
Laser's now no longer cancelling in the ground when using an SHDL make's it more situational
Grab range has been nerf to the point that its almost like Falcon's
Dair now has ridiculous ending lag losing its usefulness on stage
The obvious Start up for Dair makes it more situational that you're better off spiking with side b
Side b no longer cancels
Side b also uses the same animation as the ground version when using it in the air
Ledge mechanics makes it harder to spike opponents
Gatling combo is not in ssb4( It might be in the wii u version)

Overall it seems that Falco is still a really good character that has suffered some bad nerfs giving him a completely different play style that people just have to adapt to. He may not be the powerhouse he was in melee. And he may not be the zoning/campy/chain grab happy threat he was in Brawl. But Falco still has his bread and some new tools that he'll bring to the competition. Either way he ain't done yet.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Yo @ Shaya I remember you being a frame data monster back in the Brawl days but I have a question does Falco's jab still feel the same in terms of range and what frame it came out in 3 frames like brawl or what just curious?

 

[SchAlternate]

Is it me, or does his English voice at least vaguely resembles his old man voice from Melee?

 

[Shaya]

It came out in 2 in brawl, I don't know what it is here.
Nearly every character's frame data have been nerfed, so Falco's jab could be like 3-5 frames now, while still probably being the fastest move (shared with others) to come out.

Range wise it's very good still.

 

[Sir Tundra]

But his grab range.... Its terrible!!!

Like its as bad as now

 

[Shaya]

Down tilt seems deceptively large.
Ftilt is still a great long range poke with angles.

 

[.Shìkì]

Is it me, or does his English voice at least vaguely resembles his old man voice from Melee?

I wish you could select whether or not you want to havbe the japanese voices... Falcos japanese voice is the BEST X)

EDIT : Why is the abbreviation of "japanese" being censored o.o
EDIT 2 : Nevermind, because used as a noun its like the n-word, just for japanese people. Got it.

 

[Master Of Blades]

His English voice sounds like a therapist, if that makes any sense. It's super monotone and flat.

 

[SS://The.Nsane.Angel]

Did this with falco to a gannondorf: Down throw, shnair fast fall, down throw, shnair fast fall, down throw, shfair
Also down grab chain with a jab mixed in between is possible, it looks escapable but Ive been able to chain up to 3 down throws due to opponents trying to nair instead of jump...seems you have to wait for the instant your shield comes up after your first jab for the second grab or else the game turns it into a second jab.

Dair nerf´s only upside are the bounce mechanics , dair a hitstunned opponent for followups if they don´t tech (see shofu vs zef)...still sucks though. I don´t feel the spike is strong enough at medium percent offstage, and at high percent it just feels better and easier to just bair for the kill.

No helplessness state after phantasm isn´t that great, the animation after takes too long to do anything creative with it off stage, it pretty much has to be used above platform level if you want to be able to recover after. Phantasm is pretty good for chasing (to travel not to hit) and following up combos since there´s so much knockback in the game...it still spikes in air but the hitbox is kinda small making it hard to hit.

The lasers are basically an anti camping tool...and otherwise seem pretty useless...sadly no comboing them into stunned upsmashes this game.

Uptilt very good. down tilt very good.

I still really like falco and look forward to learning from what others can do with him.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

his own ariel has way more staring lag then in brawl

 

[ArhyLis]

Is it me, or does his English voice at least vaguely resembles his old man voice from Melee?

His voice is his StarFox 64 voice, same with Fox.

 

[Anthon1996]

Down-throw to up-smash for a guaranteed 20%+.

I accidentally L-cancelled Falco's dair while in the online waiting-room of For Glory. I daired the other Falco and the landing-lag got cancelled by a neutral combo. Sorry I can't replicate it.

 

[ArhyLis]

I've been playing with Falco, and I think he feels great...! Minus the lasers, his close combat game is a lot better. I've also found out his Laser Lock is kind of still there. Not really. When you make an enemy bounce on the ground, you can shoot 3 free lasers. It's very strict timing; hopefully I can record some proof another time.

 

[pidgezero_one]

flaocdh

 

[Sir Tundra]

Did this with falco to a gannondorf: Down throw, shnair fast fall, down throw, shnair fast fall, down throw, shfair
Also down grab chain with a jab mixed in between is possible, it looks escapable but Ive been able to chain up to 3 down throws due to opponents trying to nair instead of jump...seems you have to wait for the instant your shield comes up after your first jab for the second grab or else the game turns it into a second jab.

Dair nerf´s only upside are the bounce mechanics , dair a hitstunned opponent for followups if they don´t tech (see shofu vs zef)...still sucks though. I don´t feel the spike is strong enough at medium percent offstage, and at high percent it just feels better and easier to just bair for the kill.

No helplessness state after phantasm isn´t that great, the animation after takes too long to do anything creative with it off stage, it pretty much has to be used above platform level if you want to be able to recover after. Phantasm is pretty good for chasing (to travel not to hit) and following up combos since there´s so much knockback in the game...it still spikes in air but the hitbox is kinda small making it hard to hit.

The lasers are basically an anti camping tool...and otherwise seem pretty useless...sadly no comboing them into stunned upsmashes this game.

Uptilt very good. down tilt very good.

I still really like falco and look forward to learning from what others can do with him.

I actually tried the down throw short hop nair thing last night and it seems to be a guaranteed combo For the following characters: DK, Link,captain falcon, boozer,sheik ganon, ZSS,Charizard, D3, Ike, and Little Mac. So for the most part it seems works against heavy weights and fast fallers the only exception being fox cause of his height and lightweight.

 

[lavagolem123]

Just about the only practical use for Dair I have found is short hop Dair into opponent (do not fast fall) -> wait for hitbox to connect -> hold the direction away from the opponent to land far enough to avoid being punished if shielded (causes decent amount of shield stun). I've never been punished yet for doing it, but I haven't put it through true testing either. It feels like a good mixup option against opponents who like to shield a lot.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

All tilts, Most aerials, jabs, smashes. Nothing else.

Falco is really good, just difficult to adjust to.

 

[zman804]

Didn't see a video thread, but here's a tournament set from yesterday. Falco vs Yoshi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAKBZXljfVs

 

[Onehandbackhand]

I would really like to know if there is anything that can be done with Falco's laser. It seems very unconventional and warrants far away use of course. I just wanted to know if anyone knows anything about optimal laser times. Also does anyone know any guaranteed combos? I really like Falco and would like for this board to be more active like many of the other characters.

 

[lavagolem123]

As far as I can tell, his lasers aren't useful in the same way as previous games. They are simply long range "annoyers" that'll just kinda throw the opponent off when they hit. They are very situational and don't seem to be of much use. Just one or two well placed lasers every now and then is how I use them. For example, if I know I can't follow up in the air, sometimes I'll full hop -> double jump into place -> fire a couple lasers.

I can't really say much on true combos since I don't have a way to test with legitimate DI (or VI, whatever you wanna call it), but here's some stuff that has worked for me. Keep in mind, they may be character specific and generally only work at very low percents. Take these with a grain of salt.

U-throw -> U-Air (additional U-airs or B-airs seem to string well if you can follow their fall direction)
D-throw -> U-Smash / N-air / F-Air / Shine
U-tilt -> U-tilt / N-air

I have heard of D-tilt being able to combo for others, but I for the life of me can't land a D-tilt. I would imagine it goes something like:

D-tilt -> F-air / N-air

The overwhelming majority of my play style revolves around Falco landing an early grab for an easy combo, then jabbing and tilting with hard reads from F/D-smash to knock them away. B-air and F-air to edgeguard. Most of my kills come from offstage edgeguarding, KO by F/D-smash being a rare occasion. How have you guys been doing with the edge game?

 

[Onehandbackhand]

Just had a dittos match with another Falco player and was wondering if anyone with the name Callan was on here. Also was wondering if there was a thread related to finding people and what not. Sorry for if this isn't the right thread for this.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I really don't like how nerfed D-Air is.

 

[ArhyLis]

As far as I can tell, his lasers aren't useful in the same way as previous games. They are simply long range "annoyers" that'll just kinda throw the opponent off when they hit. They are very situational and don't seem to be of much use. Just one or two well placed lasers every now and then is how I use them. For example, if I know I can't follow up in the air, sometimes I'll full hop -> double jump into place -> fire a couple lasers.

I can't really say much on true combos since I don't have a way to test with legitimate DI (or VI, whatever you wanna call it), but here's some stuff that has worked for me. Keep in mind, they may be character specific and generally only work at very low percents. Take these with a grain of salt.

U-throw -> U-Air (additional U-airs or B-airs seem to string well if you can follow their fall direction)
D-throw -> U-Smash / N-air / F-Air / Shine
U-tilt -> U-tilt / N-air

I have heard of D-tilt being able to combo for others, but I for the life of me can't land a D-tilt. I would imagine it goes something like:

D-tilt -> F-air / N-air

The overwhelming majority of my play style revolves around Falco landing an early grab for an easy combo, then jabbing and tilting with hard reads from F/D-smash to knock them away. B-air and F-air to edgeguard. Most of my kills come from offstage edgeguarding, KO by F/D-smash being a rare occasion. How have you guys been doing with the edge game?

I agree, his off stage game is... really good! When an opponent is trying to recover, I either b air for the kill, or fall off the stage while executing a f air, gimping the opponent. And if that doesn't work, I side b back on stage, which will send the opponent downwards too. Overall, with Falco's buffed recovery, one shouldn't fear going off stage with Falco.