Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[JamesUK7]

@ Nysyr I don't use the SH air dodge cancel that much but when I do I buffer a tilt, hopefully with a C Stick we'll be able to buffer a dsmash or something. With regards to Falco's dair I really don't use it that much, I have more success using fair to be honest.

 

[cursdpawwa]

I don't know if anyone else has already come across this situation. Falco's jab combo can occasionally be cancelled when it's used on someone right on the edge of a platform. I've found that it is more likely to happen if I hold away from the edge on the control stick while hitting A. Here's an example: https://www.gfycat.com/MassiveUnfitCottontail

yeah this has been discovered already. please disregard haha

 

[Shaya]

Woot toot, almost 30 minutes of Falco matches on For Glory.
I went kinda beast mode, it was awesome, they were all played in one setting practically one after the other

1. I like spacing, stuff like maximum range ftilt or jab on shield makes me moist. Falco has a really short dash to shield, this is a major major blessing in this game for tight quarter spacing; wait till I get true pivot jabs down with gamecube controllers, EASY tournaments placements.

2. I like forward air. That move is dumb. Trust me.

3. Combawz, all the time.

4. Point blank laser is totally okay, right? Right?

5. The fun stopped when I got the "you can no longer save any replays" message. Good time for that to happen, patch means they're ALL WORTHLESS.

 

[Flamecircle]

Very nice Shaya. I somehow never considered Fair as anything but an edgeguard, but seeing you do it makes me realize how good it is as a frame trap follow up.

By true pivot jabs, do you mean dash -> pivot -> pivot to neutral -> jab? Logically that sounds very useful, considering how safe Falco's jab and tilts are, and how meh Falco's ability to get into the opponent's face is.

There's two things I don't see you do at all, so I'm wondering what your feelings on them are.

No reflector pokes? I like to throw it out a few times just so the opponent has a little fear at midrange.

Airdodge cancelled spacing? I might be completely wrong, but I feel that empty airdodges buffered into tilts and grabs are a pretty strong mixup amongst back air and ftilt pokes.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Yeah about the replays I need to record all of mine beforehand but I don't have a capture card so I may have to do it via phone recording cause I got some few matches from my locals when we did our first smash 4 3ds tourney that I have to do online the next day afterwards and some random for glory/ Anther's Netplay ladder matches.

Also I played an O.G Brawl player a state near me and he uses Bowser JR and Falco vs Bowser JR is an interesting and annoying matchup. I forgot to save the replays though

 

[Shaya]

No reflector pokes? I like to throw it out a few times just so the opponent has a little fear at midrange.

Airdodge cancelled spacing? I might be completely wrong, but I feel that empty airdodges buffered into tilts and grabs are a pretty strong mixup amongst back air and ftilt pokes.

I started gaining very bad habits with Void Reflector in offline/custom play. And they're like drastically different I find in usage otherwise (like, Down B being a really good poke for damage/position), while regular reflector is ok, I may as well just use dash attack unless I'm worried about challenging a longer ranged/faster move (there isn't that many).

Yeah, that's definitely something I should be working on, my main Marth has no usage for it (no auto cancel aerials and his short hop air dodge auto cancels before he hits the ground, he doesn't need to input an aerial), so it's not part of my 'spacing repertoire' yet. I will think about this more though.

Yes to how you described the true pivot jab. I honestly don't see getting in on people as that hard with Falco, he has a great walk speed, a respectable initial dash (very very respectable), and he has great priority on many attacks. Getting to people is easy, beating them once you're there is another thing.

The landing animation of fair flattening the body is good (can avoid a lot of shield grabs), and I'm pretty sure it comes with a landing hitbox (like pikachu/g&w dair). Gets em every time.

 

[Alexander Duprey]

Woot toot, almost 30 minutes of Falco matches on For Glory.
I went kinda beast mode, it was awesome, they were all played in one setting practically one after the other

1. I like spacing, stuff like maximum range ftilt or jab on shield makes me moist. Falco has a really short dash to shield, this is a major major blessing in this game for tight quarter spacing; wait till I get true pivot jabs down with gamecube controllers, EASY tournaments placements.

2. I like forward air. That move is dumb. Trust me.

3. Combawz, all the time.

4. Point blank laser is totally okay, right? Right?

5. The fun stopped when I got the "you can no longer save any replays" message. Good time for that to happen, patch means they're ALL WORTHLESS.

I like most of what I saw, one thing is you should use Bthrow more like at 10:00 I LOVE trading with just spike hitboxes, it's going to be your best set up for Fair edge guards, plus at really high percents it'll kill if they get hit by the laser part. I also like your Uthrow follow ups, is the upair a true combo? And I really like your jab/tilt game, but you should just grab more, Falco actually gains a lot from his throws in this game more in key with stage position and stuff.

Edit, Omg that trade at 12:10 or so hahahaa

reEdit, I think you would benefit from pivot Fsmash greatly, I know I do.

 

[Shaya]

Up Throw is a god tier move. I'm pretty sure most things I do out of it combo or are essentially perfect frame traps.

I'll keep [to relying on] pivot fsmashes to C-sticks, my first stock on the first match was one of those, when i was spacing jabs/tilts waiting for them to roll :D

 

[Zionaze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3lIymOxN3c&index=2&list=UU_iJ4XRiam4C3WwGfm_Ka4Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idx4T6nTVEE&index=1&list=UU_iJ4XRiam4C3WwGfm_Ka4Q
some replays that i had a couple of days ago :D i still want a capture card :V

 

[S2rulL]

OK, so I dunno whether anyone has talked about this, but I think one great method for approaching with Falco in Smash4 is his aerial SideB, as there are only a few frames of landing lag. Been experimenting with this recently and found you can get an almost instant SideB in the air if you jump>immediately press SideB (duh!) Also, during the landing lag, you can actually buffer an UpTilt, which can lead into a number of aerials that can possibly kill the opponent!

What I find so interesting about this technique is it reminds me of IAD (instant air dashing) from anime fighters, where techniques such as this are used as a rushdown/offensive tactic, and I think it could be used similarly in Smash4! (Tell me if I'm talking rubbish, really interested to hear what you guys think!)

 

[Ffamran]

OK, so I dunno whether anyone has talked about this, but I think one great method for approaching with Falco in Smash4 is his aerial SideB, as there are only a few frames of landing lag. Been experimenting with this recently and found you can get an almost instant SideB in the air if you jump>immediately press SideB (duh!) Also, during the landing lag, you can actually buffer an UpTilt, which can lead into a number of aerials that can possibly kill the opponent!

What I find so interesting about this technique is it reminds me of IAD (instant air dashing) from anime fighters, where techniques such as this are used as a rushdown/offensive tactic, and I think it could be used similarly in Smash4! (Tell me if I'm talking rubbish, really interested to hear what you guys think!)

This reminds me of DMC4's mechanic of jump cancelling and using Sky Star to close in and stall air momentum - Dante and everyone in DMC and DmC drop like rocks so JC'ing is really important if you want to long air combos.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Thoughts on Falco's new lasers? Not as good as they were in brawl, but they aren't completely useless now. I believe his double jump was also improved. DAir seems pretty good now as well.

 

[Nysyr]

DAir was unchanged and should still never be used, like ever. Every other character that has a spike generally has less startup and actually kills at a low percentage, Falco's won't ever kill a character with good vertical recovery.

It's not even safe to use on Shield so it has no onstage utility and when I see other falco players using it everytime they are above me I just shake my head as I repeatedly uptilt/upsmash juggle them.

 

[Charhazzard]

I use dair on predicted edge get ups to send them back off stage or potentially spike. It usually leads to off stage fair pressure when I catch the sour spot.

 

[Shaya]

Sour spot dairing people off stage is good/fine/reliable gimp fodder.

 

[Zionaze]

unrelated to anything but i just love reflecting greninjas recovery. it sends him flying off screen

 

[M@v]

Strongly feel Falco is one of the more underrated characters right now, especially since his biggest weakness got some help (the lasers). They still aren't great, but a lot more usable now.

 

[JamesUK7]

Does anyone know if Falco has his Gatling Combo in the Wii U Version?

 

[Jabzilla]

Does anyone know if Falco has his Gatling Combo in the Wii U Version?

This. Also I don't know if it has been patched but BDACUS/Boost Pivot Grab confirmation would also be cool.

 

[Float SSB]

I'm glad that some part of Falcos d-throw game from brawl was kept alive in the form of d-throw into fair.


You can see me using the combo for early gimps here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUdolMHguVEW2435llPBOOO7aJIVjtIGu

Falco is a decent character but I feel he has some big problems against defensive play.

 

[I Dair You]

There is no gatling combo, no dacus or bdacus. Falco can boost pivot grab and you can even pivot into fsmash/ftilt/jab as well. At low percents i find myself using dthrow to dash attack to fair. For gimping, I stand by the ledge and use backthrow to fair, then spike them and recover at the same time using side b. Falco is imo not as good as he was in Melee or Brawl but hes definitely still viable.

 

[M@v]

There is no gatling combo, no dacus or bdacus. Falco can boost pivot grab and you can even pivot into fsmash/ftilt/jab as well.

This. Since DACUS is gone via the patch, gatling combo is gone as well since it used the same mechanic.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Anyone have experience here vs Villager as Falco? I just got done with a tourney which was our first smash 4 wii u tourney which was a charity event on Friday and I got 4th and played Wii U version and GC controller for it for the first time and the Villager player won. I choked hard though and went too deep and SD second game and then lost to an Link player soon there afterwards which knocked me out of the event.

My match against the Villager player around the 31:30 mark

Against Duck Hunt Dog / Ganondorf the 48:30 mark

Against Link the 1:15:30 mark

 

[JamesUK7]

@ Gamegenie222 I don't have a lot of experience against Villager as Falco I'm afraid... Nice Falco play though dude!

 

[TTTTTsd]

I wasn't feeling this character until GC controller. D-Throw into Dash Attack is so real.

He's also got great tilts and footsies. Can I get some really good GENERAL advice for going forward? Recommended customs, etc.? I'm a Melee Falco main and will always miss the old playstyle but I want to adapt.

 

[Ffamran]

I wasn't feeling this character until GC controller. D-Throw into Dash Attack is so real.

He's also got great tilts and footsies. Can I get some really good GENERAL advice for going forward? Recommended customs, etc.? I'm a Melee Falco main and will always miss the old playstyle but I want to adapt.

Shameless self-promoting here: I made a list of suggested customs for Falco since nobody did for him and Fox in this thread: Suggested Custom Specials for every character by @popsofctown. It's all based on observation so, don't take my suggestion too seriously. There's also the Custom Moveset Discussion by @ Shaya , but I'm not too sure if Falco's been mentioned since I only seen the recent pages and skimmed the stuff.

Spoiler

Y'know, I'll make one on . This is based entirely on observation - I only have the Burst Blaster. So, take my words with a grain of salt.

Blaster: Oh, I recommend this. Heathen, you say. Look, it's not that bad. You can't spam it like in Melee or Brawl, but it's still useful. Just don't spam it; use it as more of a longer-ranged Reflector for interrupts and spacing. The issue is the time it takes between shots. I don't know why, but it's either really long or really suffers from input lag. End lag is all right considering pretty much everyone has end lag for projectiles and aerials. Also, you're stuck with it for For Glory and For Fun along with the beginning of the game before you unlock everything. So make do with it. It's not bad, but it's not great.

Explosive Blaster: I can see some use in this, but it's really situational. Edge-guarding perhaps, but you need great timing and a damn good read since this comes out slow and has a slow ending. It has a larger stun effect and it'll either pull enemies towards you or away from you depending where the opponent's hit - in front means away and behind the blast means towards. So, you could potentially use this as a spacing tool. It's just so situational and requires strict timing, though.

I kind of wished you could charge it like in Star Fox with the Arwing, Landmaster, and the submarine-thingie. Maybe "charging" it could have made it similar to Sheik's Burst Grenade. Oh well.

Burst Blaster: Basically, it's Fox's Blaster, but I think it's slower - don't quote me on that. We know how Fox's Blaster works and it's fine. So, this is for those who feel Falco's Blaster just outright sucks donkey butt or for those that want a faster way to rack up damage at long range.

You lose the ability to stun and "push" people, though, since it's Fox's Blaster except with blue lasers and a gangsta grip.

Falco Phantasm: Regular old Phantasm. It meteors, travels well, is quick, and it won't leave you helpless like in past games. Nothing really to say about this since it works well.

Falco Phase: If you want a longer roll, then this is where you're going to get one. You sacrifice the ability to damage, meteor, distance?, and a short end animation for the ability to I-frame dash. Those I-frames can save your life since you can zoom past a Charge Shot, a Bob-omb, whatever. Just make sure nobody's standing where you're going to appear.

I think it'd be workable. So, this becomes a decision of if I want damage or if I want I-frames. Personally, I'd take Falco Phantasm, but Falco Phase can work if you really want those I-frames.

Falco Charge: I have no idea why you'd take this over Phantasm and Phase. You gain more damage and knockback, but you lose so much distance and it has a long start-up and ending. All three can't kill, but this negates your ability to meteor like Phase since it's slow and I don't think it has a meteor effect - based on observations from NinjaLink TS's video. Sure, the knockback's great, but Falco has other short-ranged moves to do this and better: Side Smash, Down Tilt, Nair, Fair, Bair, and, well, throwing.

Remember, this is based on observation, so please, I encourage you to prove me wrong.

Fire Bird: Regular ol' Fire Bird. It's the middle of the three choices where it has decent distance, decent damage, and decent speed. You can't go wrong with the default Up Special.

Fast Fire Bird: This basically makes Fire Bird into a Falco Phantasm. It's incredibly fast compared to the others and you can in theory, spam it, but it won't be doing a lot of damage. Fast Fire Bird is like what NinjaLink TS said about "I need to get back on stage. NOW!".

Its speed comes at a cost: less damage and less range?. So, if you're used to Fire Bird, you might find yourself coming short while gimping someone with a Fair and trying to be back on stage.

Distant Fire Bird: Range. This baby has more range than any of the others, but it's slow which isn't all that bad if you only use it for recoveries and know when it's going to launch to prevent someone from interrupting you or KO'ing you.

Its power is kind of wonky. Spaced, it'll hit multiple times. Up close, it's one strong hit like Fox's Fire Fox.

Reflector: Like the other defaults, it's good. So there's nothing wrong with it. The move is a great interrupter tool since it comes out fast, has range, and can pretty much mess with any move. It'll cancel Din's Fire right when it explodes, it'll trip up Sonic when he's spinning to win, and it'll stop Little Mac from dash attack spamming. It can interrupt a jab combo - just mash the button; I think it's a small frame where the character can act when in the middle of a jab combo.

Accele-Reflector: Basically a faster Reflector with Wolf's Reflector properties of speeding up projectiles. The description said it only reflects when it moves forward, so you need better timing with this one. It still trips, but I don't think speeding up projectiles is enough to warrant its use since it loses half of the Reflector's reflect window.

I don't remember if it does the same damage. If it's really that better compared to the Reflector, then prove me wrong. I encourage you since this is just based on observations.

Reflector Void: People talk about this one a lot. It cancels projectiles, hence, "void" as in "null and void". It's also stronger and knocks people up instead of back. It can't trip people, but it'll send people high enough for a quick Nair, Fair, Up Tilt, whatever.

So, it loses the ability to reflect which is both good and bad. Good because you don't have to play tennis with Ganon- Oh... Bad because you can't punish someone spamming projectiles or have people kill themselves.

It's a choice between do you want tripping and reflect or do you want damage, nullification, and more knockback?

As of Patch 1.04 it will not kill the Villager's Tree. You can thank @Thinkaman. It still kills Pac-Man's Hydrant. Also, as clarified by Thinkaman, it will reflect "non-energy" projectiles. So, it'll reflect stuff that isn't Mario's/Luigi's Fireball, Samus's Charge Shot, and Lucario's Aura Sphere.

I will do a suggestion for if no one else does and once again it'll be based on observations... See this is what happens when you hire an intern to do a professional's job.

Edit: Grammar and Patch 1.04 changes.

Here's NinjaLink TS's impressions video on Falco's customs. This was made way back when, so be careful since things have changed like Falco's default Blaster being less "crappy".

 

[Zionaze]

Anyone have experience here vs Villager as Falco? I just got done with a tourney which was our first smash 4 wii u tourney which was a charity event on Friday and I got 4th and played Wii U version and GC controller for it for the first time and the Villager player won. I choked hard though and went too deep and SD second game and then lost to an Link player soon there afterwards which knocked me out of the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGfiGkJ8xLg&feature=youtu.be sorry for the bad quality.
always expect villagers slingshot as its one of his best moves. approaching may be hard however when he activates his gyroid, rush in and dash attack past the roid since this attack doesnt blow up for the first few seconds. or u can just SH reflector but they come to play around that like the Cody player you fought. ive noticed you trying to spike villager a couple of times but a fair or nair is usually a better option. also a lot of villagers moves can be reflected like the bowling ball, tree, etc so if possible reflecting is an option

also villagers turnips have insane priority so attacking around it is a must

 

[Gamegenie222]

@ Gamegenie222 I don't have a lot of experience against Villager as Falco I'm afraid... Nice Falco play though dude!

Thanks and it's doable I think it's even but I wanna study the matchup a little bit more but I think it's 50-50. I don't have the Wii U version however so I can't practice it and the GC controller for a little bit and some of those rolls was suppose to be dash attacks punishes but oh well, just need to get used to Wii U version and GC controller whenever I can play it.

EDIT: @ Zionaze Yeah I noticed that as well and I don't like to do dash attack when he summons the rocket cause I don't run the risk of it exploding it in my face.

 

[Zionaze]

i think its 6:4 in falcos favor since he has so many outs
and personally..... i prefer the air

 

[TTTTTsd]

It's funny, I thought I'd never feel this character when I played him on 3DS.

The GC controller did wonders. Forward moving UpAirs changed this completely for me. He's a lot more fun now and I sub him at this point, I stopped trying to play Marth in favor of Falco.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hmm, seems relevant. What are good Falco stages? After messing around in For Glory I can tell at least with my playstyle I hate FD.

 

[Zionaze]

FD arena Ferox is my favorite stage since its easier for me to recover

 

[Gamegenie222]

I stick with battlefield alot with Falco.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Also while I'm in here, I know I just recently picked up Falco but I've taken to him really nicely except for one thing. I can't seem to land kill moves. This could just be me as a player, but I can't seem to ever get that hit with back air, my smashes are always just out of reach, and I can't seem to get people dead decently off stage.

Any advice for doing this with Falco, and things I could do to just improve as a player in general while using Falco? Maybe I'm just missing some fundamentals to make him work.

 

[Charhazzard]

Personally like omega wileys castle

 

[Zionaze]

nair into dtilt is a great kill move. off stage fairs. and if you miss your nair in the air it puts you in the perfect position for a sweetspotted bair for the kill.

 

[V_x_I_D]

I recently got the WiiU version of the game and I feel like Falco's SHFair isn't the same as his SHFair in the DS version... almost as if he short hops TOO high now.. Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Nysyr]

I recently got the WiiU version of the game and I feel like Falco's SHFair isn't the same as his SHFair in the DS version... almost as if he short hops TOO high now.. Anyone else feel this way?

Neg still is the same, wireless controller lag might make it seem so however.


Looked into Falco's frame data and was quite impressed, but I'm a bit sad that his grab speed is slower than average (8 vs 6 stand 10 vs 8 dash).

Bair is frame 4, that's stupid fast for a kill move lol, and dsmash is also super quick and can be done out of a auto cancelled shorthop airdodge.

 

[Shaya]

his standing grabs 8 frames? gasp.

 

[Ffamran]

his standing grabs 8 frames? gasp.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm since you started a thread about character data... Hmm...