~ Fairy Fountain Research Thread: buhbye ol' chum ~

[Half-Split Soul]

Well, you have to have pretty good reaction time to do that Id think, also just space Fsmash so that it doesnt multihit.

That's what we think now but the testing for it is still incomplete. If it turns out to be possible to Shield SDI consistently they could just move closer to you after the first hit of F-smash so that it would multihit even if spaced correctly.

I just thought it would be good to keep an eye on the situation and how it evolves.

 

[KayLo!]

If it turns out to be possible to Shield SDI consistently they could just move closer to you after the first hit of F-smash so that it would multihit even if spaced correctly.

If you space fsmash so that it doesn't multihit, they'll be getting hit with the last hit (since it's the farthest-reaching one).

Therefore, there would be no more hits left even if they did SDI towards you.

 

[zeldspazz]

I agree HSS though, whether it affects us or not its important to monitor stuff like this.

 

[markopoleoh]

@marko: Do you have the replay on the SD card?

I will check tomorrow, if so ill upload the replay to youtube. im to tired to do it now D:

@SDI this could be terrible for zelda, but we also should think about the benifits of this, for all we know we can figure out a way to counter it in the process.

 

[Elder Sister]

@SDI this could be terrible for zelda, but we also should think about the benifits of this, for all we know we can figure out a way to counter it in the process.

theres no way to cancel fsmash is there?T__T

just space correctly. what k-lo said

 

[zeldspazz]

Wait....isnt this the same thing at 0:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9KtI5I1-pA? Or does it always do that?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Sorry zeldspazz but there's an error in your link:

"The URL contained a malformed video ID. "

That's what it says for me. Could you check the url again?

 

[zeldspazz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Sj9YRgmaM

Try this one? Its at the same time as the last video. Its just the instructional video thats programmed into the game already.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Aah, that's basic shield pushback. Every attack causes it to a varying degree and it's to prevent moves like fire breath or blizzard from being able to break your shield on one hit.

Now, this is the weird one, possibly shield SDI (it was already posted in the thread I linked here):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWj8un-Qt4

 

[zeldspazz]

Oh ok, I never really payed attention to whether it did that or not so I was just wondering *fights no Bowsers* I cant wait to see where this research goes personally

 

[-Mars-]

Kata or Kaylo or whoever is good with this type of stuff.......does knocking a shielding opponent off of a platform and then hitting them when they miss the tech on the ground with a bair force a getup?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Yes, both Fair and Bair sourspots force a getup. They just can't be used for locking.

But shouldn't this have gone to the Q&A thread?

 

[Kataefi]

Mars are you considering DASC options? And yeah HSS is correct it forces a getup but only once afaik

I also noticed something... that when someone makes zelda fall off the ledge or a platform in shield stun it can cancel into a bair. I noticed this when I got DA'd near the ledge - I would have grabbed the ledge then but it went straight to a bair sweetspot.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

A lot of floaty characters can do that with one/some of their fast aerials actually.

Edit: From certain platform heights at least.

 

[KayLo!]

Kata or Kaylo or whoever is good with this type of stuff.......does knocking a shielding opponent off of a platform and then hitting them when they miss the tech on the ground with a bair force a getup?

If you sourspot an fair/bair, they bounce once, but after that, the fair/bair forces a getup.

SUPER ********, it's like they wanted it to be a lock, but then they went "nah, **** it, nevermind."

 

[-Mars-]

Super ********, but I can see myself getting some KO setups with this when i'm playing on a stage with platforms. Forced getups are a good thing

 

[KayLo!]

EDIT: The forced getup I was talking about isn't really a forced getup.... sorry, wrong way to describe it.

After the first bounce, what I meant was that fair/bair just makes them stand and go into their normal flinch animation.... as in, it's not useful at all. x.o

 

[Kataefi]

Oh? :?? I thought they bounced once and then stand up. And that if you sneak in a second one they suddenly have tech options available...

edit:: ah it's flinching! So they flinch and have all their tech options available when they're hit on the floor?

 

[KayLo!]

Let me just start from the beginning, lol.

Opponent misses a tech/falls off a platform. (They have all tech options available.)
Zelda sourspot fair/bairs. Opponent bounces. (They have all tech options available.)
Zelda sourspot fair/bairs again. Opponent stands and does normal flinch.

 

[Kataefi]

Lol that explains it nicely <3

As an opponent bounces are they invincible? I've sneaked in some free Dsmashes as they've bounced so I guess probably not :?

 

[KayLo!]

Nope, they're vulnerable. If you can perfectly autocancel the fair/bair (which might only work on larger targets, in which case you might as well go for the sweetspot), Zelda probably has enough of a frame advantage to dsmash or whatever..... but if you get the landing lag, they can probably roll away or get-up attack or something.

Not positive, though, since I haven't frame tested it. She might have a frame advantage either way for all I know -- dsmash is pretty fast.

 

[-Mars-]

Hmmmm well I only asked because Sheik can knock a shielded opponent off a platform into FF Bair>rising bair>FF Bair>needle storm> anything since needles force a getup.......uuuuugh Zelda frustrates me.

 

[Ochobobo]

Could we put together a list of when characters start to pop up from dtilts? I'm curious how long a lock beginning at 50% would last for each character.

 

[MrEh]

Could we put together a list of when characters start to pop up from dtilts?

Feel free to test this yourself whenever you have time. lol

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I've had nair pop my opponent straight up in the air after I FF it.

 

[Kataefi]

Legendary...

That's like me saying I've had someone trip from a dtilt >.> Just stop and think about what you're posting...!

So yeah we've already established that there are 4 trajectories an opponent can go in when you FF Nair and it all depends on where their hurtbox was hit and how many hits you hit with.

It's best seen on a heavy to illustrate this - if you Nair the left side of their hurtbox, they'll get pushed to the left. Same with the right. If you Nair in their centre that's when they pop up right above you, though I can't say this 100% because Nair is just so... unpredictable - how far their hurtbox is 'split' into left, right and centre parts is unknown.

Also there is a way to FF Nair > Sweetspot Bair on certain characters, though it can only be done in perfect control setups.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Legendary...

That's like me saying I've had someone trip from a dtilt >.> Just stop and think about what you're posting...!

So yeah we've already established that there are 4 trajectories an opponent can go in when you FF Nair and it all depends on where their hurtbox was hit and how many hits you hit with.

It's best seen on a heavy to illustrate this - if you Nair the left side of their hurtbox, they'll get pushed to the left. Same with the right. If you Nair in their centre that's when they pop up right above you, though I can't say this 100% because Nair is just so... unpredictable - how far their hurtbox is 'split' into left, right and centre parts is unknown.

Also there is a way to FF Nair > Sweetspot Bair on certain characters, though it can only be done in perfect control setups.

LoL Sorry man you said post stuff.

 

[00000]

Which of Zelda's moves are safe on block?

 

[MrEh]

Which of Zelda's moves are safe on block?

Fsmash is fairly safe on block if it's spaced. As is Dtilt and Jab.

Other then that, nothing is safe. Zelda is a very slow character. lol

 

[KayLo!]

I think at max range, ftilt might be safe on block too. But only if it's perfectly spaced.

And I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I think at max range, ftilt might be safe on block too. But only if it's perfectly spaced.

Depends on the opponent. Against slower characters, sure, but the faster ones can punish it.

Also, Amaterasu rocks.

 

[KayLo!]

Gotcha. It does have pretty good shield pushback, though, which is the main reason why I'm assuming it's somewhat safe if you space it well enough.

And yes, Ammy is too goodz. <3

 

[Half-Split Soul]

It does have pretty good shield pushback, though, which is the main reason why I'm assuming it's somewhat safe if you space it well enough.

This is why it's such an awesome move if the enemy is near the edge: it'll push them out of the stage (or platform) from quite some distance away and thus become unpunishable.

 

[-Mars-]

rising nair is safe on block as well.

 

[markopoleoh]

I havent played in a while but could FF nair to Dsmash be a possible combo? and if so would it be useful? havent been able to test (wii still broken)

 

[zeldspazz]

I tihnk it depends on when you time the nair. Im pretty sure its possible of you hit with any hitbox but the last one.

 

[markopoleoh]

I also think it may not work if its a smaller character, Kirby would probably miss the Dsmash.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I used dthrow with Zelda's back against the wall and my opponent landed practically in my face. I was wondering if Zelda could have a possible psuedo CG from this. I was on delfino when this happened.

 

[zeldspazz]

Are wall infinites downright banned? Or is it just to a certain percentage?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Are wall infinites downright banned? Or is it just to a certain percentage?

Wall infinites banned?