EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Violence]

My favorite approach used to be missile->grab.

Hence this situation happened a lot to me.

You enter the grabbing Falco animation, get hit, Falco gets sent flying out of the grab as a normal grab break... tumble... thing...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

IMO missile dash attack option select grab

 

[Violence]

Nah, Fox just jumps over and hits you with a drill, or Falco dairs you. Or they shield both hits and grab you.

I like mixing up missile grab and missile shffl nair, to hit them if they jump out of shield. The nair should land past them to not get shield grabbed or usmashed out of shield. Once you condition them to stay in shield, missile grab works much better.

 

[MonkUnit]

I never try to missile grab. =(

I should work on that.

 

[bubbaking]

If you're good w/ the timing, you can even hit them w/ the missile and grab them right out of the initial knockback. It adds quite a bit of damage and it's flashy to boot! :D

 

[Dobs1007]

I personally like missile run thru fsmash Also who all is goin to ROM 4?

 

[ThePrime]

I personally like missile run thru fsmash Also who all is goin to ROM 4?

Not gonna be at ROM4 XD
But I will be at Apex ^_^

 

[Pi]

i'm goin to apex, no rom though

i wanna try a match casting/critique video

someone give me a match to critique

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Screw missile priority, what pisses me off more than anything is the Fully Charged Shot being nullified by BS normal attacks. Just the other day I read a poorly spaced Falco F-Smash and punished with a FCS only to have Falco destroy the shot and still hit me.

If this happened all the time I could gauge when to use it, the problem is that it's highly inconsistent/situational when a Ganon Fair, Falcon F-Smash, or Fox Up Smash is going to completely dissolve a Fully Charged Shot at a time where you DESPERATELY NEED IT!


Working your butt off for a smart read that ends up being randomly trumped just kills the spirit...


But I digress...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB64hO57Lf4

Shoutouts to Duck for this excellent set! Did work there brah!


5:45 is something I've never even considered before against Fox's Up Smash. I've always just timed her shield grab into Up Throw, this is a really good OOS punish!

 

[Pi]

the window is quite small, but possible

sparrow u going to flying spagetti monster? might ride down there

 

[Dobs1007]

Word look forward to chilling with u guys at APEX I do magic and stuff and play Samus

I played Gotm with Samus for like 6hrs but he has all the footage if I'm able to get it Pi I'll post some matches you should check out Rat and Duck's matches from The Big House in mean time that is what I have been doin...

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

the window is quite small, but possible

sparrow u going to flying spagetti monster? might ride down there

Yeah I'm going. I haven't really practiced thanks to school, but hopefully I will be prepped by next week.

 

[Geist]

5:45 is something I've never even considered before against Fox's Up Smash. I've always just timed her shield grab into Up Throw, this is a really good OOS punish!

I thought just plain old shield drop -> thing was just as fast, if not faster than wd oos -> thing. Or is Samus one of the exceptions because her wd comes out the fastest?

 

[bubbaking]

Screw missile priority, what pisses me off more than anything is the Fully Charged Shot being nullified by BS normal attacks. Just the other day I read a poorly spaced Falco F-Smash and punished with a FCS only to have Falco destroy the shot and still hit me.

If this happened all the time I could gauge when to use it, the problem is that it's highly inconsistent/situational when a Ganon Fair, Falcon F-Smash, or Fox Up Smash is going to completely dissolve a Fully Charged Shot at a time where you DESPERATELY NEED IT!


Working your butt off for a smart read that ends up being randomly trumped just kills the spirit...

Know exactly what you mean, man! Funny story: one time, I was playing Sheik against my friend who was playing Samus. He shot a fully charged shot right when I started charging needles, thinking he had gotten me, only for me to cancel it out w/ only one needle. Not two, not three, just one...

On the topic of charged shots, is the hitbox for a fully charged one weaker at the top of the sphere? I was playing against a Jiggs once and he "hopped" on top of the shot w/ a well-timed bair. (O_O)

Edit: I just had to add this, since Duck was just mentioned and I just happened to see this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh4f3ylsJy4&feature=related

 

[Pi]

did the jiggs not get hit by the shot?

if so...then chances are the hitbox from her bair collided w/ the hitbox from the charge shot, but her hurtbox did not

most moves in melee are somewhat disjointed, if only a little, so this can happen a lot with aerials that won't clank w/ the charge shot

it will hit the hitbox, and then continue moving until it finds a hurtbox, another hit box, or dissipates

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, the Jiggs didn't get hit. Hmmm, you're probably right.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Some moves beat the charged shot. Just like attacks that hit through missiles, some go through charged shot. I believe its based on the difference in damage between the attack and the projectile. Falcon's knee i've seen done and i seem to recall ganon's fair and sheik's fair working before too.

Also, 1 needle will trade with a charged shot because needles are gay. Did you know needles trade with lasers? I believe it has something to do with the fact that the needles have a hurtbox, so those projectiles simply do their damage to the needle as if it were a player. Similarly, the hurtboxes on brinstar block charged shots as well as any item crates or other non-play hurtboxes.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

But I digress...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB64hO57Lf4

Shoutouts to Duck for this excellent set! Did work there brah!


5:45 is something I've never even considered before against Fox's Up Smash. I've always just timed her shield grab into Up Throw, this is a really good OOS punish!

I thought just plain old shield drop -> thing was just as fast, if not faster than wd oos -> thing. Or is Samus one of the exceptions because her wd comes out the fastest?

Wait, I thought it was common knowledge that a Fox upsmashing your shield means a free wavedash out -> dsmash/dtilt? And I don't think just straight up dropping your shield is ever a good idea, afaik wavedashing out is always faster.

 

[Dobs1007]

Some moves beat the charged shot. Just like attacks that hit through missiles, some go through charged shot. I believe its based on the difference in damage between the attack and the projectile. Falcon's knee i've seen done and i seem to recall ganon's fair and sheik's fair working before too.

Also, 1 needle will trade with a charged shot because needles are gay. Did you know needles trade with lasers? I believe it has something to do with the fact that the needles have a hurtbox, so those projectiles simply do their damage to the needle as if it were a player. Similarly, the hurtboxes on brinstar block charged shots as well as any item crates or other non-play hurtboxes.

SHYGuys Grr Fox nair can asorb charge shot...

 

[bubbaking]

Some moves beat the charged shot. Just like attacks that hit through missiles, some go through charged shot. I believe its based on the difference in damage between the attack and the projectile. Falcon's knee i've seen done and i seem to recall ganon's fair and sheik's fair working before too.

Well, the "difference in damage" explanation doesn't really hold because the charged shot is either the strongest or second strongest single attack in all of Melee (25%), I believe. :-/

 

[Bing]

For playing against Peach, Strike whatever stage they would live the longest, aka DL64. Brinstars pretty **** too

 

[bubbaking]

Woah, when did we switch convo topics. O_o To be honest, I'd rather strike FoD than DL. Those darn platforms...

 

[Violence]

I feel like Peach has this zone of **** where if she corners you or you approach her badly, you can get ****ed up really easily.

I'm of the opinion that Samus needs a large stage to separate space vs Peach so that you can avoid her **** zone and punish her approaches with your superior defense.

It doesn't matter how long she lives if she can't approach you, after all.

 

[bubbaking]

^ I totally agree w/ Violence. I think it's best to be able to have enough room to MC comfortably w/out having to worry about a dash attack ****** both the missile and you.

 

[Geist]

And I don't think just straight up dropping your shield is ever a good idea, afaik wavedashing out is always faster.

I just went and checked, and for samus specifically, wd oos only has a 2 frame advantage vs shield dropping. Samus is in one of the slower catagories for shield dropping, taking 16 frames to completely release it, but she's in the fastest category for wding, taking only 4 frames, plus the universal 10 frames of lag after the airdodge.

So for a lot of characters, it's looking like shield dropping is actually faster than wding oos, but I mean, considering that this is all frame perfect theorycraft, I think it might be safe to say that both options are pretty much equally viable when you have a pretty decent window to attack a fox that's Usmashed your shield anyways.

 

[Pi]

wd OoS is generally just more reliable because your opponent isn't always in range to be hit where you stand you kno? so being able to wavedash where u need to, then punish, is nice

also, the window for moves 'clanking' or, at the lease charge shot getting canceled out, the % base windows at least, is pretty large

fox nair doesn't trade w/ charge shot dobs, thank god

but most fsmashes will, knee will, ganon fair, sheik far too sveet? that's mad gay...

stitch face will, and i'm sure we've all seen reflected missiles will as well

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

If it's at all stale (which can happen from using weak charge shots, wtf), even more moves can cancel it out. Even Pichu's nair.

 

[Pi]

^ah yea...fully staled puffs bair can cancel it Zzz, which tbh could happen in that matchup...

also i think puffs side b just outright beats it fully charged

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Wait, I thought it was common knowledge that a Fox upsmashing your shield means a free wavedash out -> dsmash/dtilt? And I don't think just straight up dropping your shield is ever a good idea, afaik wavedashing out is always faster.

Oh I knew it was possible, it's just the idea of a stationary OOS WD never really occurred to me. I use it for platform positioning or mindgames, but the though of it be used like that was always remedied by a grab.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well, the "difference in damage" explanation doesn't really hold because the charged shot is either the strongest or second strongest single attack in all of Melee (25%), I believe. :-/

hence the word "difference". For example, ground priority is based on differences in damage. A ftilt might clank with jab and fsmash, but fsmash goes straight through jab.

 

[Geist]

Something in the back of my head is telling me that if the move is >8% damage it overpowers the other one (on the ground). Any moves that don't differ by that damage will clank.
I'm not sure though, I might be delusional.

 

[bubbaking]

I just went and checked, and for samus specifically, wd oos only has a 2 frame advantage vs shield dropping. Samus is in one of the slower catagories for shield dropping, taking 16 frames to completely release it, but she's in the fastest category for wding, taking only 4 frames, plus the universal 10 frames of lag after the airdodge.

So for a lot of characters, it's looking like shield dropping is actually faster than wding oos, but I mean, considering that this is all frame perfect theorycraft, I think it might be safe to say that both options are pretty much equally viable when you have a pretty decent window to attack a fox that's Usmashed your shield anyways.

Well, WD oos is probably still better in all situations. If you decide to shield drop, then accidentally input a smash w/ the C-stick before the shield dropping animation is over, you'll end up rolling, spot dodging, or jumping. WDing first nullifies that chance by taking you directly out of the shield.

hence the word "difference". For example, ground priority is based on differences in damage. A ftilt might clank with jab and fsmash, but fsmash goes straight through jab.

Then why is a fully charged shot cancelled out by one needle? However, I get what you're sayin' Pi!.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Then why is a fully charged shot cancelled out by one needle? However, I get what you're sayin' Pi!.

Some moves beat the charged shot. Just like attacks that hit through missiles, some go through charged shot. I believe its based on the difference in damage between the attack and the projectile. Falcon's knee i've seen done and i seem to recall ganon's fair and sheik's fair working before too.

Also, 1 needle will trade with a charged shot because needles are gay. Did you know needles trade with lasers? I believe it has something to do with the fact that the needles have a hurtbox, so those projectiles simply do their damage to the needle as if it were a player. Similarly, the hurtboxes on brinstar block charged shots as well as any item crates or other non-play hurtboxes.

please re read this post.

 

[bubbaking]

*derp* Gotcha!

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

oh hey guys, what's u-

oh that looks familiar, where's that file on my computer...

oh yeahhh... dang. is that you ai....maybe not.

2007, hm... that was back on my old account...

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, no, I'm new here (and I'm not trolling). I'm just becoming more active on the boards. This is mostly just the result of the fact that I'm on Smashboards a lot on the Melee Character Specific section so every time there's a reply, I see it immediately.

Edit: Well, I'm not exactly new here. Been around since 2009, but I didn't post or anything cuz I wasn't too interested in smashing competitively yet.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

Lolz, no, I'm new here (and I'm not trolling). I'm just becoming more active on the boards. This is mostly just the result of the fact that I'm on Smashboards a lot on the Melee Character Specific section so every time there's a reply, I see it immediately.

AIDS showed those same symptoms, right before he, before he... no.

We can't let you go down like he did, bubbaking. Do it for us. Do it for samus.

 

[Geist]

Your missile-aneous Samus puns are the bomb

 

[Pi]

AIDS lived up to his name lol

 

[bubbaking]

Not exactly sure what happened to AIDS but I hope he didn't die..... :/