THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
Plup definitely has it in him to be the best Samus, only time will tell...
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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)
- Thread starter Pi
- Start date
Pluplue
Smash Ace
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
lol That's a lot of gumption boy, I hope you prove your worth at a major very soon.
HugS: I heard you lost to a Peach player in pools. You probably don't remember, but could you tell me what when down? (if you want.)
Pi
Smash Hero
@HugS
you get your motivation back?
btw props for makin out of pools, i know you got more in you than that though
you get your motivation back?
btw props for makin out of pools, i know you got more in you than that though
AntoPark
Smash Lord
HugQ is pretty damn good.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
I wish I could have gone. But I had money issues.
Pi
Smash Hero
we'll see bout apex for me
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
This This This ThisYou guys missed out at genesis
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
i was told isai was there
this seemed like a very interesting tourney
this seemed like a very interesting tourney
ThePrime
Smash Lord
darrell, spaceballs, violence, hugq
nice meeting you guys, hopefully I'll be able to go to apex
nice meeting you guys, hopefully I'll be able to go to apex
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
my ***** darrel, whats good. add me if u got a fb: kline wright.You guys missed out at genesis
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
Pluplue
Smash Ace
That "HugS" guy is pretty good.
DarrellD
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2010
- Messages
- 527
Eehh yea hes ok
Violence
Smash Lord
Samuses I saw at Genesis:
ThePrime
ihavespaceballs
AntoPark
HugS
HugQ
Large Phallus Darrell
I think I have a good sense about how good each of us are with respect to each other now, and what I have to work on. Being exposed up close and personal to every Samus style under the sun gives me so many new ideas...
I think one of the most eye opening things I watched was Hugo(Gonzalez) vs SpaceBalls in a series of dittos.
****, Hugo is technical. and I don't mean like, kinda technical, I mean that Hugo and SpaceBalls looked, at least to me, just about as technical as each other. Their tech was in different spots, but there were definitely ridiculously technical moments(On Stadium, Spaceballs doing a jump, perfect waveland on platform, double jump perfect waveland back toward Hugo to reverse fast fall super missile cancel, only to have Hugo react to it during his dash dance/wavedash back to center position by dash attack cancelling the missile, perfect wavedashing behind SpaceBalls and pivot utilting him). I think the only reason SpaceBalls lost was that his options were generally less safe and Hugo's just generally better against aggressive players.
There's so many things that I saw from every Samus, when I think about **** that I can do to improve myself, I don't even know where to start.
When it comes to movement, Spaceballs looks the most impressive, but Hugo's is not only fast, but he spaces really accurately with it too, it makes it frustrating to try and break through.
Combos are definitely Spaceball's area, though I think most of the good Samuses are pretty good at it. Even Hugo *points to Hugo's last combo*.
Shield pressure, I think Darrell has that down the best, honestly. Wavebomb shield pressure shenanigans combined with jab canceling, tilts, and timely grabs are too good. But I also like ThePrime's use of bomb jump, DI away, come back with an aerial toward the back of the character's shield, because I think that has a greater probability of shield stabbing some characters.
Edgeguarding... I dunno, I think we all have to get better at it. There are times to missile, times to space tilts, times to walk off and aerial, and times to just grab ledge, and I don't think we've approached the point where we're awesome enough at it.
SOOOO MUCH TO WORK ON.
ThePrime
ihavespaceballs
AntoPark
HugS
HugQ
Large Phallus Darrell
I think I have a good sense about how good each of us are with respect to each other now, and what I have to work on. Being exposed up close and personal to every Samus style under the sun gives me so many new ideas...
I think one of the most eye opening things I watched was Hugo(Gonzalez) vs SpaceBalls in a series of dittos.
****, Hugo is technical. and I don't mean like, kinda technical, I mean that Hugo and SpaceBalls looked, at least to me, just about as technical as each other. Their tech was in different spots, but there were definitely ridiculously technical moments(On Stadium, Spaceballs doing a jump, perfect waveland on platform, double jump perfect waveland back toward Hugo to reverse fast fall super missile cancel, only to have Hugo react to it during his dash dance/wavedash back to center position by dash attack cancelling the missile, perfect wavedashing behind SpaceBalls and pivot utilting him). I think the only reason SpaceBalls lost was that his options were generally less safe and Hugo's just generally better against aggressive players.
There's so many things that I saw from every Samus, when I think about **** that I can do to improve myself, I don't even know where to start.
When it comes to movement, Spaceballs looks the most impressive, but Hugo's is not only fast, but he spaces really accurately with it too, it makes it frustrating to try and break through.
Combos are definitely Spaceball's area, though I think most of the good Samuses are pretty good at it. Even Hugo *points to Hugo's last combo*.
Shield pressure, I think Darrell has that down the best, honestly. Wavebomb shield pressure shenanigans combined with jab canceling, tilts, and timely grabs are too good. But I also like ThePrime's use of bomb jump, DI away, come back with an aerial toward the back of the character's shield, because I think that has a greater probability of shield stabbing some characters.
Edgeguarding... I dunno, I think we all have to get better at it. There are times to missile, times to space tilts, times to walk off and aerial, and times to just grab ledge, and I don't think we've approached the point where we're awesome enough at it.
SOOOO MUCH TO WORK ON.
Pluplue
Smash Ace
Yeah I've found that there is actually no perfect way to edge-guard, however there are LOTS of ways to put them into the position you can punish. Like what I love doing best vs marth is run off the edge faking to neutral air, then just jump back up and F smash. Also is your avatar samus shooting a fish thats shooting fireballs, Violence?
Violence
Smash Lord
Fake walk offs are awesome, yeah.
And no, it's Samus drawn in the old style, shooting a missile.
And no, it's Samus drawn in the old style, shooting a missile.
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
I like fake ledge grabs is equally as fun, esp. against Sheiks.
Violence
Smash Lord
Oh yeah, one of the new things I learned by watching Hugo, and want to incorporate:
Hugo was ledgehopping onto the stage, then wavelanding off and grabbing ledge, repeatedly, at some freakish speed. (Was it against you, spaceballs?)
This is so good! If they go onstage, you're there first. If they go for the ledge, you have it. If they're nairable, you can reverse nair drop, or even empty drop and double jump bair with grapple left to recover.
I wanna practice it, it seems like a great option no one's bothered to learn.
Hugo was ledgehopping onto the stage, then wavelanding off and grabbing ledge, repeatedly, at some freakish speed. (Was it against you, spaceballs?)
This is so good! If they go onstage, you're there first. If they go for the ledge, you have it. If they're nairable, you can reverse nair drop, or even empty drop and double jump bair with grapple left to recover.
I wanna practice it, it seems like a great option no one's bothered to learn.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Is there a video of Hugo doing that?
AntoPark
Smash Lord
Does anyone else here use bomb->zair->wavedash->move?
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
I wish people used extender more.
Pi
Smash Hero
tbh
i don't think extender is that bad,
at the very least it (pseudo-)forces an air punish as opposed to some harder ground ones
though, when you do fight someone who can re actively jump to your grabs, it's useless
if you can sneak it in there some how, might get you some %
got some vids up if yall want to critique;
i was playing fairly well, i would say about 90% of where i would put 'playing well' at, so i miss some tech skill & some follow ups & edgeguards, but you should be able to see what i was trying to do even if i don't land it so base your critique off that if you would
and if you only feel like watching a couple of vids, watch the vs. falcon ones, those probably demonstrate the highest level of play out of the choices
vs. sheik (his shiek is a work in progress...doesn't play gay enough)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWGVTDuoY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG1v83PcCMk
vs. fox/falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKcu_qA-y1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_OeRVpmkqI
vs. falcon (in this group, this falcon gives me the most problems)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5C3Xn8iWeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sln8rM8QVBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I97Wf-412s
also, i am kind of developing a playstyle vs. falcons who do not shield a lot so lemme lay that out and lmk if yall find flaws with it or have run into counters against it so i can be prepared
so this playstyle is against falcons who;
are constantly mobile, dash dancing a lot & not really approaching, and who is ready to attack rather than shield
basically i feel that to counter this type of style, you must play the same
samus has a really solid defensive game for sure, but in my experience if you allow the falcon to play his spacing game you're going to lose
i just feel that falcon has safer approaches, even against samus' defense, and profits very hard off of the hit that he does get, not to mention he has approaches that pseudo counter ub OoS, and hard counter CCing
so what i prefer to do, and have had more success with, is to be the aggressor
push the falcon to the edge, or into a corner where he can't remain mobile and the chance for him to space or time his moves safely gets reduced due to being pressured
dash attack & nair a lot
always challenge his aerials with nair, his fair is slow, and his nair has holes in it
samus can profit pretty hard off of the hits she gets on falcon as well, she also is harder to edgeguard and lives longer assuming you don't get knee'd
don't be scared of falcon, and if you think he's going to go in the air then throw a nair out there, but do it so you won't get knee'd if he decides to not go airborne & shield instead (so space it behind him or delay it on his shield, or cover your return to the stage floor with it)
most importently though when you're going to nair, is to not hesitate if you think he's going to aerial as well
if you hesitate the likelyhood for trading or just straight up getting knee'd is higher, since if you both press your nair vs. fair at the same time you'll win 100% of the time
any way, that's the gist of my mindset when i'm fighting falcons who like to control the match via safe/well spaced aerials & dash dance camping
i don't think extender is that bad,
at the very least it (pseudo-)forces an air punish as opposed to some harder ground ones
though, when you do fight someone who can re actively jump to your grabs, it's useless
if you can sneak it in there some how, might get you some %
got some vids up if yall want to critique;
i was playing fairly well, i would say about 90% of where i would put 'playing well' at, so i miss some tech skill & some follow ups & edgeguards, but you should be able to see what i was trying to do even if i don't land it so base your critique off that if you would
and if you only feel like watching a couple of vids, watch the vs. falcon ones, those probably demonstrate the highest level of play out of the choices
vs. sheik (his shiek is a work in progress...doesn't play gay enough)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXWGVTDuoY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG1v83PcCMk
vs. fox/falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKcu_qA-y1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_OeRVpmkqI
vs. falcon (in this group, this falcon gives me the most problems)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5C3Xn8iWeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sln8rM8QVBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I97Wf-412s
also, i am kind of developing a playstyle vs. falcons who do not shield a lot so lemme lay that out and lmk if yall find flaws with it or have run into counters against it so i can be prepared
so this playstyle is against falcons who;
are constantly mobile, dash dancing a lot & not really approaching, and who is ready to attack rather than shield
basically i feel that to counter this type of style, you must play the same
samus has a really solid defensive game for sure, but in my experience if you allow the falcon to play his spacing game you're going to lose
i just feel that falcon has safer approaches, even against samus' defense, and profits very hard off of the hit that he does get, not to mention he has approaches that pseudo counter ub OoS, and hard counter CCing
so what i prefer to do, and have had more success with, is to be the aggressor
push the falcon to the edge, or into a corner where he can't remain mobile and the chance for him to space or time his moves safely gets reduced due to being pressured
dash attack & nair a lot
always challenge his aerials with nair, his fair is slow, and his nair has holes in it
samus can profit pretty hard off of the hits she gets on falcon as well, she also is harder to edgeguard and lives longer assuming you don't get knee'd
don't be scared of falcon, and if you think he's going to go in the air then throw a nair out there, but do it so you won't get knee'd if he decides to not go airborne & shield instead (so space it behind him or delay it on his shield, or cover your return to the stage floor with it)
most importently though when you're going to nair, is to not hesitate if you think he's going to aerial as well
if you hesitate the likelyhood for trading or just straight up getting knee'd is higher, since if you both press your nair vs. fair at the same time you'll win 100% of the time
any way, that's the gist of my mindset when i'm fighting falcons who like to control the match via safe/well spaced aerials & dash dance camping
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
The margin of error in this matchup is so skewed. That's the main annoyance with the matchup. Any of Samus's serious punishes come at a great cost to Falcon's OOS punishes (Knee/Bair/WD Grab).
Unless you're on your A-game and have a stock lead this match can be an uphill battle. The way I see it, if you're a better player than the Falcon then it's not so bad, but if the Falcon is just as smart then it's just a matter of how much little damage you can tack on before ensuring an edgeguard kill.
Lastly, Falcon's DI can be extremely annoying. Smashes at medium %s tend to send them right to the ledge or platform where they can tech and start running around all day. You need specific parameters to lock Falcon down and risky maneuvers (reading when they're going to shield and grapple) to keep him pressured.
Super agrro-Falcons are easy because they're predictable, but defensive in-and-out Falcons who love to dash-shield and WDOOS are frustrating.
Unless you're on your A-game and have a stock lead this match can be an uphill battle. The way I see it, if you're a better player than the Falcon then it's not so bad, but if the Falcon is just as smart then it's just a matter of how much little damage you can tack on before ensuring an edgeguard kill.
Lastly, Falcon's DI can be extremely annoying. Smashes at medium %s tend to send them right to the ledge or platform where they can tech and start running around all day. You need specific parameters to lock Falcon down and risky maneuvers (reading when they're going to shield and grapple) to keep him pressured.
Super agrro-Falcons are easy because they're predictable, but defensive in-and-out Falcons who love to dash-shield and WDOOS are frustrating.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
yo, my ***** darrell says extender is trash....then dammit its trash, I don't wanna see that **** no more >_>
Pi
Smash Hero
run off utilt vs. recoveries puts people in prime positions to be embarassed
coincidentally run off utilts look very similar to uairs.
also they act the same.
games been out for 10+ years
samus CC's stuff & UB's OoS
this is not new meta people, stop calling it gay
coincidentally run off utilts look very similar to uairs.
also they act the same.
games been out for 10+ years
samus CC's stuff & UB's OoS
this is not new meta people, stop calling it gay
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
Pi
Smash Hero
i'd trade upb OoS for shine OoS any day lol
edgeluca
Smash Lord
lol this thread is still here
<3 u all
<3 u all
THE RED SPARROW
Smash Lord
Is there any realistic counter to Falco/Fox's Shine-Grab? It's nice that most spacies don't know how much that tactic owns, but it pretty much *****. I remember talking to Phanna about it at a tourney, but I don't remember if he said it had a genuine counter.
Pi
Smash Hero
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
^ beats multishines on shield
Pluplue
Smash Ace
lol I like your avatar sveet :F nestea is teh bess
And yeah up B kind of beats every form of shield pressure fox can dish out.
So foxes end up metagaming you by grabbing your shield before they think you'll upB, or feigning shield pressure.
And yeah up B kind of beats every form of shield pressure fox can dish out.
So foxes end up metagaming you by grabbing your shield before they think you'll upB, or feigning shield pressure.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Or spacing/shielding after aerials.
also, yeah, nestea da bess. I've been a fanboy of his since season 3.
also, yeah, nestea da bess. I've been a fanboy of his since season 3.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Discuss .