EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[Geist]

I need a how-to on super safe, defensive sheiks -__-
I can always take the more offensive and quicker sheik players around my level, but the safe ones that just play a straight shut-down game are infuriatingly difficult.

Specifically the on-stage matchup, playing footsies, how to get around her annoying shield and grab game, etc. I know about edgeguarding and **** obviously lol

 

[Pi]

i don't know if most of us have much sheik experience
can you describe whats happening and maybe we can play super theory bros. for a minute?

 

[Geist]

Yeah I don't play sheiks much often either...
I go 50/50 with this sheik player in particular, but I have to work so much harder to do that lol
I just think I could be playing the matchup better.

Basically he hangs out on platforms and fires the occasional needle to get me to approach. Any attempts at playing an aerial footsies, and well, it's sheik. When I get in closer he spaces fairs ->Lcancel->Shield->Repeat, so I have to be super tight with my timing in order to hit him with Ftilts, which seem to be the only thing that's safe enough to poke with. Fsmash/Dsmash get shield grabbed, utilts don't come out fast enough even though they do work periodically, and my grabs get jumped over.

So the matchup devolves into very careful spacing with ftilts and jabs, and using retreating bombs to put up a ****ty little wall to protect myself from fairs. Periodically I'll catch him off guard with a nair OoS or get a lucky grab and make the most of it, you know, get him off stage and edgeguard, etc. MC->grab on shield does stuff sometimes too, but I don't like using grabs on sheik because missing just leads into frustrating times.

Fortunately he plays so safe that he doesn't edgeguard aggressively, so that's not too much of a problem most of the time. He just knows that if he plays carelessly I'll like 2-3 stock him, but if he plays carefully like mentioned above, he'll beat me a good majority of the time.

 

[Pi]

hmmmm

if he's jumping over ur grabs then i don't think you can get around building a strong ftilt/jab game vs. shield

spaced fairs...on ur shield? so u cant UB them and on top fo that he shields

probably nothing u can do directly to counter that so efforts should go toward not having to shield it,
plup mentioned to me a bit ago dash attack, dash attack is a pretty good anti air, and nair is always good too

i don't think sheik has the calibur juggle game that ganon/marth/falcon do, so maybe chance a bit more intercepts when he starts shffling fairs?

where are your missiles in all of this, i never felt as though needles > missiles on stages w/ platforms, can you throw a homing/smash out there and force him to the edge and gain some ground?

sounds like his only troubling offensive game revolves around his fairs, so you need to counter these

if he's delaying them, then you might have to chance just launching at him when he short hops, and throwing out something first

or maybe rushing in and shielding it so that it isn't properly spaced and you can UB it

i remember having to learn to make marth mispace his moves so i can UB them more than anything, sounds like you might be shielding to early/predictably, keep mobile, if he's on a platform and u can get under him that's no good for him, so work your way toward him and see how he responds


/theorycraftbros

 

[ThePrime]

vs grab oriented characters like falcon, sheik, marth you have to play more patient than would normally like to play. Keep in mind, those 3 characters play control vs the spacies (and the reason I bring this up is because every character that isn't a spacie will learn how to fight against a spacie as first priority since they're top tier). They're waiting for you to attack, always.

vs sheik in particular, this may sound ubsurd but she doesn't actually have a safe/reliable approach vs you. Grounded Needle? She has lag. Air needle? Don't get in that zone. Dash attack? CC.

So then they'll resort to those fairs, most sheiks do that since they want to test what they can get away with. The answer to those shffl fairs is to simply not be in that position to begin with, getting shffl'd fair'd to jabbed on shield is pretty nasty shield pressure, that's a game u dont wanna play, back off. It's not about "countering" her fairs, it's about realizing that's situation you can't win, it's a stacked mini game in her favor where you will always lose - so don't play the game.

She shields a lot? Ok. Get behind her and start pressuring her. Wavebomb the living hell out of her.
Wavebomb --> jab --> wavebomb ---> jab ---> another attack will break her shield.

If you aren't comfortable with that kind of approach just run away (not too far though, mind your position) and charge a blaster. What's she going to do? If they run toward you as a response, that's awesome because now they're the aggressor and you can wait to punish something.

BUT, and a big BUT is that i just offered two extremes. The option to grab is always there. dthrow bomb nair will work at lower % if they don't DI. Most of the time they'll DI away so then just follow up with a ftilt, it's great reliable damage and is punishing enough to make them realize that shielding too much can be bad. And honestly imo, it's best to mixup those three respones as much as you can.

If you pressure too much, then they might nair oos or find some window of opportunity if you screw up. If you play too passive then they'll put you in worse positions since sheik's offense is threatening. If you grab too much then they'll wait to jump oos and then punish.

/my 2 cents on it

@Pi: Hey buddy see you at apex!

EDIT: Which sheik is it? You're still in BC right? Don't tell me it's Rusty XD lol >_<

 

[Geist]

EDIT: Which sheik is it? You're still in BC right? Don't tell me it's Rusty XD lol >_<

No lmao I'm in Ontario right now.

I'll try implementing things that both of you suggested on some sheiks. Unfortunately I won't be able to play the sheik in question again for a while, but I'll seek out more sheiks. I really don't have enough experience with them.

 

[McNinja]

Okay. No posts since last year? I have to do something about that. Samus Uair. Discuss.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I refuse.

 

[Pi]

uair
aerial interrupt
so good
also the move is kinda good too

ALSO i had the SICKEST samus v samus combo vs plup
ended in uair ball

 

[MonkUnit]

cant wait to see vids of plup at apex

 

[McNinja]

Still not exactly sure how to perform this fabled "aerial interrupt".

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAUe49pwudg

 

[McNinja]

So its just a Uair through a platform, or what?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The uair doesn't really come out (at least the hitbox doesn't). The properties of the animation cause samus to lower herself, allowing you to land with the move while moving up. You can do this with more than just samus' uair, but phanna played samus so thats the one thats most known

 

[McNinja]

But that's all you do to perform it? Uair at the percise time?

 

[Ørn]

Yeah. It's pretty easy to practice by picking a stage like Dreamland and full jumping through the left or right platforms with an up air. Just uair when you're about to pass through the platform.

I still can't do it from the edge though, I should practice it one of these days.

Good luck to all Samus players at Apex, by the way!

 

[McNinja]

Is there any special way to do it from the ledge? Or is it basically the same thing?

 

[AntoPark]

Hey! Hope all you sami did well today. Sorry if stab bothered you guys. LOL..

 

[McNinja]

Hey can somebody fill me in on some of the hype Samus matches that occured at Apex? I need to look up some videos.

 

[Pi]

hit em with the bassex

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

yo shout outs to all the samus (plural) i played at apex. Also i had no idea their were so many of you. Also you all played completely different from each other.

Wes: sorry i pulled out two stitch faces on you in that 2nd match. and it was cool to see u knew who i was this time around. Anyway i am sure i will see u at some tourney in NY in the near future.

Hugs: I almost had you in that first match, but then u figured something out and well like i said i ALMOST had you . but real talk you are a real nice person and it was good to meet you. I was a peach you played on day 1, and u whooped a friend of mine in pool 1 (bubbaking)

Duck: you are a real nice guy giving advice to bubba and stuff. I had the hardest time fighting your samus at of all of them, their was just something weird about it. o well next time i will get you. Also it was nice talking about Mich football for a kin or so

PI: You are legit good, i feel i kinda figured out how to fight you at the end but our match count is in your favor atm, i am going to have to change that next time we meet. you also imo seemed like the most aggressive of all the samus (plural) i faced which was fun and weird to fight.

I feel like i am forgetting someone but their where so many matches I cant remember them all. but it was cool meeting you guys

 

[MonkUnit]

Did you get to play plup or Darrel?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Did you get to play plup or Darrel?

nope. kinda wish i did but their was only so much time and so many people to play. (i just have a nagging feeling i am forgetting one samus, but maybe this is just b/c i played bubbaking who doesnt get a shout out b/c i play him enough already.

 

[ThePrime]

hey shoutouts to all the samus mains i met at apex :D

 

[Smashjin]

hey shoutouts to all the samus mains i met at apex :D

We had a couple good friendlies. You're mad good, kinda wrecked me.

I need to practice more often.

 

[DarrellD]

I wish I played all of you

 

[McNinja]

I can't wait till I'm good enough to go to Apex. It sounds like so much fun.

 

[Pockets Jones]

its never too early to start going to tournaments, i am terrible at this game and i went to apex last year(sadly i couldnt make it this year) even if you dont enter you get to play friendlies with tons of people that you wouldnt normaly get the chance to! also seeing all the smashers and getting into all the hype really makes you want to get into the game further.

 

[ES Lite]

Dang last tournament I went to was last year.
I don't even know what has been happening with samus for the past 12 months, let alone melee.
Once I get my license (December) I'm going to sooooo many tournaments.

Samus God is about to be reborn.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

theprime, yeahhhh! way to represent the PWN (pacific northwest).

also plup.

...freaking plup.

man, i really had hopes you were good. DANG. i love your style to death, it's literally my dream style of how samus could be played. (oh loved your pool ditto.) and congrats on getting second in doubles (last time a samus placed that high?
yeah that's right.), too. too bad on running into sw's upsmash -_- (were you gonna da? ah man... sw wasn't going to let that get past him.)

Spoiler

(sorry duck/darrell not trying to leave you guys out but watching plup def gets me hard)

also just throwing this out there...

it's been in the back of my mind for a couple years now (since my first vid) to make a best-of samus combo vid. i'd have some pretty cool ideas - i'd have some really cool ideas - for it if i did make it. if i did. i'd probably work on it this summer. i'm saying this now because there's a lot of good new samus footage out there and i don't know who'd want to make a samus vid between now and then, but, bam, better watch out, this vid will be epic. would be. if i did.

 

[McNinja]

You totally should! There isn't enough Samus combo video's. Ill make one if I ever make bracket at a tournament.

 

[ES Lite]

also just throwing this out there...

it's been in the back of my mind for a couple years now (since my first vid) to make a best-of samus combo vid. i'd have some pretty cool ideas - i'd have some really cool ideas - for it if i did make it. if i did. i'd probably work on it this summer. i'm saying this now because there's a lot of good new samus footage out there and i don't know who'd want to make a samus vid between now and then, but, bam, better watch out, this vid will be epic. would be. if i did.

what's your YouTube?

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

what's your YouTube?

http://www.youtube.com/user/tomat0paste/featured

ah, my sig didn't show in the last post, but those are links to combo vids i've made.

mcninja, yeahhhh. if you're not already, just start stockpiling your individual clips (whatever might work in the slightest) from all the matches you've ever recorded - that's literally like half the work right there. the rest of it is finding the music you want (or theme, etc), and figuring out how to arrange the clips, which i just leave up to the magic of luck (aka trial and error). it's worked out well for me.

(ah, i have enough footage right now to make my own if i wanted, i mean it's all 2-3 years old now, but i have some cool clips still.)


ahhhh, every time i think about making this vid i just get excited about it. ok, ok, put off thinking about it until spring break... right now focus on school, friends/important things, that girl i like...

 

[AntoPark]

Dude, you're the guy that made the varia-ous aggression combo video? That was the combo video that pushed me to main samus over sheik!

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

Dude, you're the guy that made the varia-ous aggression combo video? That was the combo video that pushed me to main samus over sheik!

haha oh dang. i actually saw your name somewhere else on the forum, and then click on my video to test links and stuff and saw your name in the comments and i was like 'oh whoa, i just saw his forum name'

but cool haha. yeah i made it, glad it was so influential! hah


edit: that reminds me. i did a prototype vid to tech n9ne's 'the rain' (i wanted a song i could practice synching to). i needed to figure out how to do special effects, and i didn't want to make a vid only to find out i'd have to scrap the whole thing because i went in with completely the wrong ideas.

so, protip: if you don't want your first vid to suck, practice making one first (or at least synching things, or the effects you'll want to use). you'll learn the ropes of the program, get a feel for what works, and importantly, learn how to pick a song that won't get annoying after hearing segments of it for hours (tech n9ne got old fast).

or if you don't care, pick your favorite song of the week and throw a bunch of clips together.

 

[Violence]

When I get good enough, I want to make a Samus on Falcon combo video entitled, "Domestic Violence."

I was going to use this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0adb6piQj5Y

 

[Rubyiris]

Hey Samus mains, I team with Coreygames on a regular basis, and wanted to ask a few questions.

A. What stages do you guys feel most comfortable on in doubles?
B. Which characters do you feel most comfortable teaming with, and why?
C. Team combos! We could really use some team combo strategies.
D. General strategy. Do you guys like being offensive, or defensive in teams? Do you guys like an offensive, or defensive teams partner?

I play Falco, mostly, though I do switch to Fox and Marth depending on my comfort level, and the characters/stages the opposing team uses. Generally if they go Marth/Shiek/Puff I'll bust out the Fox, and Coreygames will do her best to stock tank since those match ups are pretty awful.

 

[MonkUnit]

Look at Teczero / Duck team vids from apex for sheik / samus teams

 

[Corigames]

Team with a Sheik? I'm, like, racist to Sheiks. It would never work.

 

[AntoPark]

Coreygames is a girl?

Any stage is fine. I feel the least comfortable on yoshi's, but that's just 'cause it's too small for me(in doubles at least).

Fox, Falco, Falcon, Hyprid(not marths, just hyprid). Ideally in any doubles game, I should only have like 1 or 2 honest kills. That being said, I like teaming with characters that can go to town by themselves and use me for the occasional support. I just try to distract them while my partner wins the 1 vs 1. It's like being a wall the other enemy can't get through to help his teammate.

You shouldn't TRY to do team combos, they just happen. The only time I'll try to do team combos is when I sense my partner's combo is ending and I can do something about it to extend it. Grab->Charge Shot is the only real team combo in 2vs1.

Offensive teammates. Samus is already too defensive and doubles isn't really too inviting for defensive play(at least not for both players on the same team).

Just know that if a samus is fairly competent, you won't need to help them too much. When we're recovering, just wait until we get close to the stage and try to get the opponents off the ledge or something. We're supposed to be supporting YOU, not the other way around.