bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, utilt can be teched too. If that's the case, just do it again if possible. Sometimes, teching can actually screw a char over, a.k.a. Yoshi, Ness, etc.
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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)
- Thread starter Pi
- Start date
A point I would like to make is that if the Dtilt hits and it doesn't stage spike, then it will send them into the air making it easier to recover. If you use Utilt, Ftilt, or Fsmash, then you will still be knocking them back into open space if they don't tech it. Plus, I get more reliable stage spikes with Dsmash than I do with Dtilt and it's much easier to time and space, imo.
Geist
Smash Master
I'd also like to point out utilt has to be smash DI'dthe majority of the time in order to be wallteched, whereas a move that sends them towards the stage like dtilt is pretty much a given - you just have to press R/L. Also what corey said.
Dsmash is also superior because of its ability to kill at higher %'s/ send them offstage on the other end.
All in all, it's simple efficiency vs risk/reward. edgeguarding with dtilt has low efficiency, and it's relatively high risk for a reward you might not even attain.
Also wanna say that Yoshi has super armor on his DJ so it's extremely lucky for you if you manage to stage spike him.
Also Ness and Yoshi are bad and there's much more practical and homosex ways to **** them over.
Dsmash is also superior because of its ability to kill at higher %'s/ send them offstage on the other end.
All in all, it's simple efficiency vs risk/reward. edgeguarding with dtilt has low efficiency, and it's relatively high risk for a reward you might not even attain.
Also wanna say that Yoshi has super armor on his DJ so it's extremely lucky for you if you manage to stage spike him.
Also Ness and Yoshi are bad and there's much more practical and homosex ways to **** them over.
Bing
Smash Master
umm.. I rarely dtilt now, I love the bomb off the stage -> ****.
Also, best way to kill ness is to simply jump infront of the PK thunder and watch him fall to his death.
Also, best way to kill ness is to simply jump infront of the PK thunder and watch him fall to his death.
Pi
Smash Hero
i think SH fair has some potential as shield pressure
or possibly as creating a wall
or possibly as creating a wall
I used to think fair was terrible.
Now I'm using it waaaay too much. I dunno, it's just so fun to use and it's great for chasing opponents on platforms, and it's so good when you're coming up from the ledge. It's also a surprisingly decent combo move.
It's a shame the initial highbox is so high up, makes it annoying if you're trying to hit an opponent close to the ground.
Now I'm using it waaaay too much. I dunno, it's just so fun to use and it's great for chasing opponents on platforms, and it's so good when you're coming up from the ledge. It's also a surprisingly decent combo move.
It's a shame the initial highbox is so high up, makes it annoying if you're trying to hit an opponent close to the ground.
Anytime I use the fair as a ledge hop I get punished. They either crouch cancel it and punish or shield and grab me out of the move XD
You have to space it very well to not get hit after using it. Retreating Fairs are cool.
You have to space it very well to not get hit after using it. Retreating Fairs are cool.
If you time the last hit of your ledgehopped fair just right, you can UpB before they can punish you, whether they're shielding or crouch cancelling. I think dsmash works sometimes too depending on what option they're using but that's not quite as reliable. That's why ledgehopped fair is so good. Or maybe people are just really bad at timing their attacks when I do it, however I would think it should always work if timed right.
'Course if they just move away from your fair you're probably going to get punished, but if they are giving you extra space to get back from the ledge on, that's a victory in itself.
'Course if they just move away from your fair you're probably going to get punished, but if they are giving you extra space to get back from the ledge on, that's a victory in itself.
Violence
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW1lRKAHfew
Man, I just saw this. NSFW due to pornography.
The tease at the end gave me blue balls.
Man, I just saw this. NSFW due to pornography.
The tease at the end gave me blue balls.
Violence
Smash Lord
Oh ****, I forgot to tell you, Darrell, there's a cool mixup for getting up on Battlefield if you grapple the lower part of the stage.
Normally we have two options: Don't wall jump and Up B, and wall jump and Up B. Both can be covered easily by grabbing ledge.
But you can also wall jump to air dodge back on stage. It will get hit if they ledge drop and hit you, but then they don't know if you're going to Up B, so often times, they stay on, and you get back on the stage.
Normally we have two options: Don't wall jump and Up B, and wall jump and Up B. Both can be covered easily by grabbing ledge.
But you can also wall jump to air dodge back on stage. It will get hit if they ledge drop and hit you, but then they don't know if you're going to Up B, so often times, they stay on, and you get back on the stage.
Geist
Smash Master
abcool
Smash Ace
I am not on a high level with Samus like some of you guys, but i think your best bet is to recover high, Doc's best killing aerial is his fair and so to not be effected by the cape i would go high. If you aren't high i would say Sweetspot with grapple. I personally like to bomb jump close to a wall then walljump and then use my normal jump, but it's kinda risky on certain stages that don't have a design like yoshi story.
Edit: Going to my first tourney in 3 months on Sunday and i know Sheik is gonna be there anytips on early percent combos and what to look for as an opening will help me greatly.
Edit: Going to my first tourney in 3 months on Sunday and i know Sheik is gonna be there anytips on early percent combos and what to look for as an opening will help me greatly.
Pi
Smash Hero
fortunately most sheiks don't know the samus matchup so you might be able to get away with CCing quite a bit
try to...not shield, cause her tilts are annoying to deal with OoS, so just basically be moving around a lot safely, and dash attack and ftilt cc and stuff
also she'll grab your shield
and um...idk if sheiks like to spot dodge a lot, but usually chars w/ good dsmashes like to spot dodge, so figure out if she likes to, then u can grab her if she doesn't cause sheiks love to shield grab too so she might shield often
if she's offensive with fairs, dash attack them, or try to figure out how/when she jumps, and just upair her
if you are forced to shield an aerial or something, just UB it
and if you accidently throw out an aerial that hits her shield, and ur landing in front of her, u should probably UB that too any way cause like i said shieks like to shield grab
recovery low, and pay attention to how she needles
most shieks who don't konw the matchup like to just throw needles at u cause it's safe, but you can do an pretty easy job of avoiding them via bombs and air dodging to grapple, as long as u extend ur air dodge as long as u can, and if u are forced to get hit by a needle, just makes ur not to waste ur grapple doing it
also don't waste you're double jump gettting needled either, what i mean is like...if a needle is coming at you, and you have your double jump and grapple..you're probably fine if u get hit by it
but if you DJ and then get hit by it, u might be ****ed
so yea, just save ur **** and let her needle you while trying to avoid them best u can, it's not the worse thing to get hit by a needle
when you are edgeguarding her, don't get greedy trying to anticipate her landing spot and charging a smash attack when u should have just held the ledge
take ur free nair/dair reactively rather than getting off the edge pre-emptively to smash her where u think she will land, good sheiks mix it up so the gauarntee'd damage is in nair/dair
u can sweet spot under her dsmash, so just sweet spot ur UB, if she needles ur UB, don't panic, just sweet spot again
basically the bad spots to be in vs. sheik is letting her get away with shffled fairs, and getting stuck in ur shield while she jabs/tilts/grabs you
also a lot of shieks like to dthrow tech chase on platform re-grab
so if you see her waveland on the platform just UB when she tries to grab u, i think this tends to be pretty bread and butter for shieks, so when u **** with it it can **** their mindset if they're not super good and adaptive
so yea...there's tons more but...those are the main things, good luck
also just in general
UB EVERYTHING U CAN, don't even worry about being punished, just UB ****, as long as they don't start baiting it UB everything
and don't forget to CC stuff
hmmm vs. do it looks like he can pretty much just cape ur UB any time u can grab with it lol
so...maybe...if you KNOW he's going to cape, UB a little higher than sweet spot, so ur not forced to land directly into his fsmash
if u ub higher you can probably go a decent ways inwards, or juke to go back outwards or idk...
i haven't played a lot vs. doc since my noob days
try to...not shield, cause her tilts are annoying to deal with OoS, so just basically be moving around a lot safely, and dash attack and ftilt cc and stuff
also she'll grab your shield
and um...idk if sheiks like to spot dodge a lot, but usually chars w/ good dsmashes like to spot dodge, so figure out if she likes to, then u can grab her if she doesn't cause sheiks love to shield grab too so she might shield often
if she's offensive with fairs, dash attack them, or try to figure out how/when she jumps, and just upair her
if you are forced to shield an aerial or something, just UB it
and if you accidently throw out an aerial that hits her shield, and ur landing in front of her, u should probably UB that too any way cause like i said shieks like to shield grab
recovery low, and pay attention to how she needles
most shieks who don't konw the matchup like to just throw needles at u cause it's safe, but you can do an pretty easy job of avoiding them via bombs and air dodging to grapple, as long as u extend ur air dodge as long as u can, and if u are forced to get hit by a needle, just makes ur not to waste ur grapple doing it
also don't waste you're double jump gettting needled either, what i mean is like...if a needle is coming at you, and you have your double jump and grapple..you're probably fine if u get hit by it
but if you DJ and then get hit by it, u might be ****ed
so yea, just save ur **** and let her needle you while trying to avoid them best u can, it's not the worse thing to get hit by a needle
when you are edgeguarding her, don't get greedy trying to anticipate her landing spot and charging a smash attack when u should have just held the ledge
take ur free nair/dair reactively rather than getting off the edge pre-emptively to smash her where u think she will land, good sheiks mix it up so the gauarntee'd damage is in nair/dair
u can sweet spot under her dsmash, so just sweet spot ur UB, if she needles ur UB, don't panic, just sweet spot again
basically the bad spots to be in vs. sheik is letting her get away with shffled fairs, and getting stuck in ur shield while she jabs/tilts/grabs you
also a lot of shieks like to dthrow tech chase on platform re-grab
so if you see her waveland on the platform just UB when she tries to grab u, i think this tends to be pretty bread and butter for shieks, so when u **** with it it can **** their mindset if they're not super good and adaptive
so yea...there's tons more but...those are the main things, good luck
also just in general
UB EVERYTHING U CAN, don't even worry about being punished, just UB ****, as long as they don't start baiting it UB everything
and don't forget to CC stuff
hmmm vs. do it looks like he can pretty much just cape ur UB any time u can grab with it lol
so...maybe...if you KNOW he's going to cape, UB a little higher than sweet spot, so ur not forced to land directly into his fsmash
if u ub higher you can probably go a decent ways inwards, or juke to go back outwards or idk...
i haven't played a lot vs. doc since my noob days
abcool
Smash Ace
Thanks Alot. I never really knew some of those things. I will try not to shield at all and stay offensive the whole match. If i can get on a higher level with Samus here i might go to a Florida tourney with Shounenkel next time.
More doc stuff. Pi gave me a good idea of what to do vs a doc and your only option is upb. Do what Falcon does...do a reverse upB most doc's won't expect it and it will turn you around and auto sweetspot the ledge. You have to make it seem like you were going for a normal sweetspot from the beginning. Try that out and tell me how it works.
Violence
Smash Lord
Reverse Up B is very difficult to pull off, but it might work once or twice.
You can grapple and mix up the timing of when you come out of airdodge to avoid pills.
and no, if you get caped and your back is to the stage, kiss that stock goodbye.
You can grapple and mix up the timing of when you come out of airdodge to avoid pills.
and no, if you get caped and your back is to the stage, kiss that stock goodbye.
Violence
Smash Lord
Hooooly **** Duck Plup and Darrell all going to Apex.
This is officially hype.
What about ThePrime, spaceballs, and Pi?
This is officially hype.
What about ThePrime, spaceballs, and Pi?
ThePrime
Smash Lord
im going 
edit: wait violence won't I see you this saturday up in bc?
edit: wait violence won't I see you this saturday up in bc?
Violence
Smash Lord
Yep. Wanna team?
ThePrime
Smash Lord
If I don't team with someone from WA then yeah let's do it lol
I just watched your set vs. Shroomed, and now I see why you're asking, lol.
For those of you who haven't seen it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a-HyBfLtn4 (Game 1 in particular)
You were pretty good at avoiding the bair/pill when recovering for the most part though, and it seems like it's mostly a Battlefield issue, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Out of curiousity, why did you counterpick Yoshi's? I mean, I love the stage so if it's personal preference I completely understand, but it seems like an odd choice against Doc.
Good set, by the way.
Dobs1007
Smash Ace
Thought we were teaming
Edit nvrmind u obviously were talking bout this wkend not apex lolMe and spaceballs rooming at hotel also I know Pi is goin
U can't sweetspot it I played with Velocity a lot and he told me u can't sweetspot against it so best advice is to mix up recovery use grapple to wall jump and such.
.
abcool
Smash Ace
Well that sucks so recover high and like they said mix it up when you're low. Other than that amazing set Darrell. I thought you were falling off, but you're starting to bring it back now. Midwest, east coast and west coast got there Samus reps now. I wanna see you guys do damage at Apex.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
whats the startup of smash missiles, and how much damage.
whats the startup on dashing grab and screw attack?
whats the startup on dashing grab and screw attack?
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Smash missiles come out frame 15 in the air and frame 21 on the ground. Tilt missiles come out frame 21
In the air and frame 15 on the ground iirc.
In the air and frame 15 on the ground iirc.
Pi
Smash Hero
Geist
Smash Master
shhhhh we look more knowledgeable when we say frame things
AntoPark
Smash Lord
Does anyone else love knocking someone off the stage, jumping, and shooting a fully charged charge shot predicting an early double jump? I hope..I'm not the only one that does it...
Dobs1007
Smash Ace
Psh me and IHSB would walljump first style points style pointsDoes anyone else love knocking someone off the stage, jumping, and shooting a fully charged charge shot predicting an early double jump? I hope..I'm not the only one that does it...
Pi
Smash Hero
if you land that you auto win the match
being semi serious here lol
super demoralizing/cheesy gets ur opp. frustrated
being semi serious here lol
super demoralizing/cheesy gets ur opp. frustrated
Dobs1007
Smash Ace
Dobs1007
Smash Ace
Haha ya like I've said I've only done in friendlies lol did it against my friends peach lol a few days ago...Dang it. Now I'm going to lose a bunch of matches trying to pull that off and failing. Thanks guys.
Violence
Smash Lord
What I've learned is that by jumping, you can react to dj forward b and dj up b, so there's no need to shoot prematurely and risk dj shine stall if he's too close.
I've made some bad calls in the past and it's gotten me killed, so I prefer to be more careful and cover the forward b option, then punish up b with charge shot carefully.
I've made some bad calls in the past and it's gotten me killed, so I prefer to be more careful and cover the forward b option, then punish up b with charge shot carefully.
Dobs1007
Smash Ace
Who plays carefully
Vonzar the Soulrender
4th Dimensional Horror
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2008
- Messages
- 819
I see this happen to people here all the time, they need to just stop jumping into it...Psh me and IHSB would walljump first style points style points