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Expanding The Melee Scene: Community Outreach. Christmas/New Years - IDEAS??

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,871
Current SleepyK spotlight: Columbus, GA + Birmingham, AL?

Meetup with Calvin, Reflex, the Columbus Smashers, perhaps the AL smashers too.

Locations to consider
Nashville, TN - Possible meetup with Nite also
Blairsville, GA
Athens, GA
Birmingham, AL again - meetup with Columbus?
Columbus, GA - meetup with Columbus and AL?
Savannah, GA
So I had this really in depth, well written post, but then my power briefly went out yesterday and I lost the whole thing. So here's a winging it at 330 am while tired version omg this is going to be really bad but please let me get my point across

"Melee is a dying game."
As a community, we dread these words. They imply that the scene that captivates and connects us will eventually collapse a lot sooner than most of us imagined it would. This community has survived the release of Brawl. It has survived MLG's direction (thanks DoH for sharing that lovely quote in your sig a while back) and if anything, the turnouts for national sized tournaments such as Event 52, Genesis, and Pound 4 indicate that Melee is only growing. Growing exponentially, in fact. However, I've talked to too many smashers who are quitting or rapidly losing interest due to a lack of tournaments or a lack of players in their area.
This has always been a matter of contention for Melee, as it lacks the easy competitive access of First Person Shooters, MMORPGs, and other online games. It lacks centralized locations for players to gather, as arcade games have formerly had. We pretty much just chill and play Gamecube, bro. In the past, there were usually large smashfests held by key figures in the community. GAWes and Mike G quickly spring to mind, as they held many smashfests in Georgia.

ok i'll make this look better some other time, let me just skip to my points stupid power outrage for top 3 pr on tlnet

here's the main point of what i want to say.
Basically, in areas that are dense with good smashers, the communities are growing and thriving. New York, California, some parts of Florida... they all have sizable communities. In North Carolina, the rise of Dr. Pee Pee has put hope in the hearts of the smashers and they are rapidly improving as a state. However, in places where there aren't many good smashers (such as Georgia), where the community is very scattered, or where there are no tournaments, the Melee scene tends to die. Georgia has been stagnant and I know South Carolina and Alabama haven't been faring well either.
You may think that if the players just stop making johns, the wheat will separate from the chaff and the people who quit wouldn't be tournament material in the first place. This is obviously a lazy solution and results in the loss of many potential new players. Many players have trouble with transportation or money or they live in a bad area for smash.
For example, lately I have been conversing with a Canadian player, samthedigital. For a long time, his only competition was his brother, who recently quit. Sam has stuck through due to his love of the game and is finally able to attend tournaments. His brother, frustrated by only being able to play Sam (who had largely figured him out by that point) quit. Sam's usual competition now is a CPU.. and occasionally, Ally and his brother, Holy... but only at small, local tournaments.
Yet, he lives in Quebec, within roadtrip distance of Bamsoldier, Vwins, Kage, and PKMVodka.
Of course they wouldn't drive to get to him as he's "not worth" driving out to play. He would have to make an effort to get to them, but he doesn't have transportation. If he were more like his brother, he would probably have quit or decided that tournaments weren't worth it because he would "never get as good as the top players" because he had no one to play.

ok time to just cut to the point again cause this is getting as long as lambchops' deeeiiick.

We who live in the lesser Melee areas have to foster the new or smash starved players. If we truly want the community to continue to grow, we must take it upon ourselves to do so. Those who are considered to be leaders in the community, take charge. New players may find out about competitive melee from venues that aren't smashboards, such as: youtube, gamefaqs, reddit, teamliquid.net, and many other sources. Beat the best on the block. Get them hungry for the tournament scene.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
Totally on point for what has to happen.

It's funny how so many people just don't get this concept cause you can't tell them anything bad about melee, but yup, you know what's good.

Where the heck is some blairsville ga and when you goin?

and actually, is there some friday you'd be willing to come to WR, cause I have a place in town I normally play, but it's a wack teen center that's only open from 8-11 on friday night. (YEAH AWESOME HOURS!)

edit: *looks at map for blairsville*
.... what the f***?!?
 

j00t

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,194
Location
North AL
You make some valid points Sleepy. We (as in north AL) need to whip the Birmingham guys into shape.

It'd be cool if all of us could meet in Birmingham for some super hot Smash action.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
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Sep 29, 2007
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Lol Josh.

I know that the western side of NC has a hard time getting to things(just as I did), and this post is a great reminder to me to dedicate more time to going out and training them if possible.

Good post, Sleepy.
 

thegreatkazoo

Smash Master
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
3,128
Location
Atlanta, GA
Athens?

Really?

The place where I grew up for 12 years and am now moving back to in a week and a half?

This can only mean one thing: Smashfest @ my place.

My parents will be out of town for that weekend, so any plans about going to Athens should include me.

Count me in times 100000. :bigthumbu
 

Nite

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
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2,538
Location
Memphis, TN
I approve. I am always willing to help people learn the game. I need to learn some things myself.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Well here, it's not that they are "Not worth" to play against.. I mean we started training some other dudes as well. It's because there is no where to play with 10+ people.. all of our centers where people meet up and play have closed down, I mean the 2 main Internet Cafes of Montreal has been closed down.. which means no more weeklies.

For me, I mean if you really want to learn smash and really want to become better than you'll do anything for it. I wasn't friends with Vwins/Bam/PKM before, but I kept prying them to learn more even if it meant getting my *** kicked x1000000 times. And then gradually we became friends and closer friends, that's the true magic of smash.

In our situation, we only play once a week and it would be impossible to have more than 8 people in one house. It requires organization and I'm not sure everyone wants to host at their place while their parents are home or they want their free time, idk.

Edit: I think the people here are just too shy to ask, I don't mind playing smash every once in a while.
 

toasty

Smash Hero
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Nov 3, 2006
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Norfolk/Virginia Beach, VA - IT'S SOVA, BABY! &lt;
Yes.

A thousand times yes.

Athens?

That's 45 minutes or so from my Monroe store...so if anyone gets a date set for a fest and I happen to be working, I can let y'all know and we can meet at my store and carpool if it's already a stretch for you to drive out as far as Monroe? [Then again it'd probably be closer for everyone if we met in Winder...we can leave cars at the store there, no problem =D]

But yo...sooo down for meeting/training(/inspiring/motivating?) new players
 

Kirby1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
41
Well here, it's not that they are "Not worth" to play against.. I mean we started training some other dudes as well. It's because there is no where to play with 10+ people.. all of our centers where people meet up and play have closed down, I mean the 2 main Internet Cafes of Montreal has been closed down.. which means no more weeklies.
I never said it that way Kage >_>;;. I just said that I have had no one to play against for the most part since I lived in Henryville which is too far for anyone to drive to anyway, so I appropriately never bothered asking.
 

Caleb Wolfbrand

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
3,443
Location
Ionia (Charleston, SC)
Oddly enough SC has actually been on the rise as of late. It's just, you know, we always sucked, and continue to suck, so even getting a little more players won't do much. we still hardly have any... but at least we were/are having ranbats in Columbia.

RC highly approves of this... Sleepy is the best.

On another sad note, Athens is 14 minutes short of a 5 hour drive from my house, so RC is once again, **** out of luck in the idea of supporting his GA brethren.
 

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
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Messages
5,871
Randomly hosting a tournament when you are far from everybody won't necessarily be beneficial.
 

Winnar

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
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Mississippi
I'm thinking about hosting a tournament and advertising locally, I think that might be the first step in building a scene in MS.

See, I have a plan:

1) Really really local tournament in Starkville, advertise only to MSU, probably going to have to be a brawl tournament. Any smash is better than no smash, which I'm hoping will draw in any melee players or potential melee players. I don't mind brawl, but I think the ultimate goal is melee so yeah
2) Hopefully there's a lot of local dudes who are interested in getting better. I'll try to give them a sneak peak without being intimidating or w/e, make friends and stuff
3) Get them on facebook so that I can keep them informed on when we might be playing smash
4) smashfests / smashboards integration
5) tournaments
6) tournaments with people from OoS

the rest kind of is obv I think?
 

P. O. F.

Smash Ace
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These set of points make sense and are valid but won't hold strong for long. It's like making a group on Facebook saying, "dont fill up on gas today! Lets make the gas prices go down and show them we dont need gas!"

Certain areas are strong for smash...but in the same sense...its still the same group of people who have been playing this game for 3 to 4+ years.

This game does not and will not ever again offer the strong diversity you can get from current or future fighters. You can keep the scene ALIVE but you can't make it GROW AND DEVELOP. Melee is a dying game and I think people should snap out of fantasy world and realize that.

I'm not saying melee is bad and there is no point in playing it but I am saying you're wasting your time trying to bring people in.

I blame Brawl. No offense.
 

Winnar

Smash Lord
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These set of points make sense and are valid but won't hold strong for long. It's like making a group on Facebook saying, "dont fill up on gas today! Lets make the gas prices go down and show them we dont need gas!"

Certain areas are strong for smash...but in the same sense...its still the same group of people who have been playing this game for 3 to 4+ years.

This game does not and will not ever again offer the strong diversity you can get from current or future fighters. You can keep the scene ALIVE but you can't make it GROW AND DEVELOP. Melee is a dying game and I think people should snap out of fantasy world and realize that.

I'm not saying melee is bad and there is no point in playing it but I am saying you're wasting your time trying to bring people in.

I blame Brawl. No offense.
w/e dude, that facebook group thing is a pretty trash analogy

Also, how do you think strong smash scenes got so strong? You think north Virginia would be nearly as strong if they didn't have chudat hosting biweeklies for years, constantly encouraging any and all newcomers to come back and enjoy themselves?

Also also, I think Sleepyk already addressed the online fighters. I doubt he's aiming for that same level of popularity tbh. I think he just wants to start with what he knows will work. He wants what we all want, more smash.
 

GAwes

Hidden Boss
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Sharpsburg, ATL, USA!!!!!!!!!
I'm thinking about un-retiring from this game for the 4th time once summer semester is over and i get back from a trip to university of alabama. Im gonna be living in paris next year for a while, I'm pretty sure they have some gnarly smashers. I wouldnt mind being the best captain main in europe. I'll be seeing yall in August or Sept.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I blame Brawl. No offense.
Brawl probably helps Melee's growth just by association in the same franchise.

Sure the initial result of Brawl's release saw many Melee players switch over, play Melee less, or play both.

But Brawl is a game recognized by MLG, casual players nationwide, and Nintendo fans. Its still smash, so when newer players say that they want to play Brawl competitively, they are exposed to competitive smash. All of competitive smash. Smash being smash, they inadvertently come across Melee. New player exposure.
 

P. O. F.

Smash Ace
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Also, how do you think strong smash scenes got so strong? You think north Virginia would be nearly as strong if they didn't have chudat hosting biweeklies for years, constantly encouraging any and all newcomers to come back and enjoy themselves?
If we all had dedicated top level smashers hosting events i'd be excited for smash too. But the reality of it is.....that is not the case.

But Brawl is a game recognized by MLG, casual players nationwide, and Nintendo fans. Its still smash, so when newer players say that they want to play Brawl competitively, they are exposed to competitive smash. All of competitive smash. Smash being smash, they inadvertently come across Melee. New player exposure.
The amount of people who play Brawl that say "I want to get into Melee." is actually pretty high. I will agree with you there. But the amount of Brawl players who MAKE THE TRANSITION...is minimal. Fatal, Ally, and Kool Aid for example have all expressed interested. But are they playing? No.


In all honesty to quickly cover my point: Think of all the top level smashers

-MaNg0
-M2K
-Scar
-Jman
-Vidjo
-DJ Nintendo
-Ka Master
-Skler
-Husband
-Wife
-Dr. PeePee
-Silent Spectre
-Wobbles
-Chu Dat
-PC Chris
-Col Bol
-Dashizwiz
-Eggz etc etc etc


All of these people have been playing for 3+ years with MAYBE the exception of like two people. A game needs growth and fresh blood to keep it competitive. As history has shown, Melee is old and it will die out. Its the same group of kids at every single tournament (at least in New England) and the same six match ups that you need to learn. (Fox, Falcon, Marth, Falco, Sheik, Jigs) Sorry guys, but its going to stay that way too.

The excitement and intensity of smash is still there but its between the same group of players.
 

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
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Messages
5,871
Actually, Ally and his brother Holy (as mentioned in my post) attend small local melee tournaments.

The first part of your post. Don't you get it? I'm asking for top players to either host fests for people to go to. Or, even better, make fests happen in places where there isn't a concentration of good players.

just because it's the same pool of players (please don't call them kids when many of them are your around age or older) where you are.. because you don't travel out of your region, doesn't mean that's the case for other places.

The point of this thread is to get people to expand that group of players so that it isn't the same people. Your posts very much indicate that you don't really want the community to expand because you've given up on it.

I do appreciate your input, but it's quite clear you're applying circular logic to the subject at hand.

here's some more interesting discussion with legitimate points from gfaqs

EvilQuatreX
Posted 7/29/2010 1:13:43 PM
message detail You know, I've been thinking about something like this for a while. I may have figured it out, but I don't think I have. What is the biggest difference between smash melee (and brawl for that matter) and other tournament-worthy fighting games (SSSF, melty blood, tekken, etc.)?

Parent company sponsorship.

I'm not saying this just for getting more money for the scene, it's not about that. Look at all the games that were introduced to EVO this year. Now look at the companies that sponsored EVO. You see names like Mad Cats and Hori and stuff, but among those names are two companies: Capcom and Namco Bandai. I think seeing these two companies take a part in the competitive scene for their games has some corollary to the popularity, like saying, "These games are big enough to have a big company backing a tournament, it must be a good tourney." How many smash tournaments can we list off that had Nintendo or Sora Ltd. promote or sponsor?

I think the very fact that Nintendo denies the possibility of the smash bros. line of games as a line of possible tournament-worthy fighters has some effect on the growth of the community and the ability to form tournaments. While Capcom and Namco/Bandai and any other company that's made a fighting game will back their community for the tournament scene, Nintendo just shuns our communities like the red-headed stepchild they never wanted. Hell, even Power Stone was backed by Capcom for some tournaments.

I think Nintendo's disapproval of smash as tournament-worthy is demoralizing our community and shunning others from joining it, resorting to sayings like, "Smash is never competitive because SAKURAIIII said so" and "Smash is for kiddies" and "Brawl sucks because of tripping."

77guru77
Posted 7/29/2010 4:52:38 PM
message detail You know, I've been thinking about something like this for a while. I may have figured it out, but I don't think I have. What is the biggest difference between smash melee (and brawl for that matter) and other tournament-worthy fighting games (SSSF, melty blood, tekken, etc.)?

Parent company sponsorship.

I definitely agree with this. Smash is a great game with an amazing community since the players take it on themselves to organize all the events and tournaments. It is a testament to the strength of both game and group when people can allow it to continue to live through sheer force of will.

Sponsorship and interest in the game would certainly help it gain more popularity, but the comment about players "not being worth it" for traveling purposes hits a chord in me as well. It is certainly important to play with the best; this often is the most obvious road towards improvement. But ostracizing less-skilled players due to the fact that they are currently not as much of a challenge is a poor decision.

I'd like to believe (though I know it is not always the case) that people don't just want to personally improve, they want the community to improve. Reaching out and making a bit of an effort to get new people and ease them into the existing group goes a long ways towards that. Obviously not everyone will become the next M2K or Mango; they may not even stick around for more than a couple weeks. The amount of commitment they contribute is up to them to decide. It is up to the experienced players to give them that choice and opportunity.

I have been in martial arts for six years. One of the things we are always striving to do is attract new students. Teaching beginners is the most important task of any instructor. Not only does it increase exposure to the style, it is the ultimate test for the teacher as well. Sure, you know the material yourself. You can do it; it makes sense to you. But can you teach it? Can you explain it?

That is often one of the most challenging things: explaining why something is done the way it is. Obviously not everyone is cut out to teach, but even simple things like answering a question or pointing out glaring flaws and mistakes go a long ways towards improving understanding. This is beneficial to both the student and teacher; the person asking the question and the one answering it.

Equally important is assisting the existing students of a class, or the members of the smash community. People advance at different rates and struggle with different things. Some can overcome these obstacles on their own, but most people require the aid of others. By sharing the knowledge and experience accrued freely, more people will be able to continue to advance and improve.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the community as a whole needs to function more like...a community.
 

BBQ°

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Woodstock, GA
Nice sleepyk.

I agree with Winnar and also Dr. Pepper. I think one area we should look into more is expanding the brawl community in certain areas around GA (colleges are a good start), and then slowly show them the truth in Melee.

Or you could just argue that we can just straight up show them Melee, but you'd have to take this approach a bit more carefully since our generation of young adults are noobs.
 

theONEjanitor

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the1janitor
another reason melee is dying is because everyone who plays it is like, a grown up now.
most of us have real life **** going on, college, bills, etc.
the overwhelming majority of people who were really big into melee think that melee is the better game.
so its not a matter of them switching to brawl. its not a matter of "everybody wanting to play brawl".
its just ppl quitting, as sleepyk has acknowledged. but are they quitting because melee is dying, or is melee dying because they are quitting. i think its the latter.

the reason the big huge melee tournaments like genesis get so much support is because you pulling together all the scraps from all over the nation. that doesn't mean melee is growing. that means you've gathered up literally everyone left in the country who still is able to travel and play the game lol

you notice how the average age of a brawl player (who wasnt previously a melee player) is like 16-17
melee came out when most of us were between the ages of 14-16. and we played it for seven-eight years and became attached to it, and thats the only reason we're still playing it now that the majority of us are between 18-26 yrs old

but theres a new game out now. and a new generation of gamers. and to them it doesn't make sense to play the old version of smash. even though its completely different. its close enough that they feel its a downgrade. to them its like asking them to switch to Windows 3.1 when they have windows 7.

anyway i kind of rambled. but in nutshell, im thinking people are quitting melee for real life issues more so than because the scenes dying. no one "quits" a game they love. you only "quit" when you have other **** to do in your life. or when the game is interfering with you in a personal way. it doesn't make sense to say. "I LOVE THIS GAME, BUT THERE ARE NO MORE TOURNAMENTS. THEREFORE i WILL QUIT THE GAME AND NO LONGER SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY" no one does that.

and i dont think you'll have luck recruiting new players because they've got a shinier, newer, easier game to pick up lol.

but there are people who started getting into melee THROUGH brawl as was mentioned. but I dont know if the numbers are significant enough
 

Winnar

Smash Lord
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Mississippi
okay POF, but I'll make you eat those words when I create a smash scene in starkville

a state that currently has 2 smashboards posters and 1 lurker is going to have a respectable scene by the end of the next academic year

Expect the combo video to be released in May 2011
 

theONEjanitor

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I think the average age of hardcore gamers is like mid-20s though
Yeah, but as mentioned by Sleepy, smash is at a disadvantage to other communities because it requires much more effort, money, travel, and planning than other games to thrive.
the only way smash can thrive in my opinion is through the contining introduction of new players into the community.
and all the new players play brawl

Another problem with smash, and melee in general is for some reason there is a huge divide between casual and competitive players.

like in Halo or Street Fighter, casuals look at pro players and say "wow thats awesome"
but in smash,t hey say 'U HAV 2 USE GLITCHES TOO WIN TOURNEY***'

i think this might be because Nintendo doesn't particularly support the competitive community.
 

SleepyK

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grown upz is a cop out answer for melee decrease tbh.
plenty of people who are real life bros play the game and make time here and there for it even with hard schedules.

have a better response but i'l ldo it later

I'm not saying people with real life issues are cop outs, but that the "real life gets in the way" is a much smaller issue than you are playing it out to be.

not only are the many players who have careers or fiancees still playing, many players aren't even at that age.


the reason there is a schism between the communities is because the console game scene became competitive during a time where gaming wasn't mainstream and the concept of utilizing game engine exploits was still considered cheating. People to this day think the weapon glitches in the halo series are "cheap" and for "tryhards." The mass acceptance of gaming combined with the rise of the competitive scene (online play is a huge factor) have changed the scene nowadays, but people will always find reasons to complain about something.

Competitive play in melee was particularly easy to ostracize due to the clear difference between what a scrub was doing and what a good player was doing. Scrubs who can't take a loss could easily attribute their lack of skill to something obvious that the other player was doing. In this case, it was wavedashing.

plus tourney*** plus misinformed plus internet equal perpetuating falsities
 

theONEjanitor

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obviously the people still playing are the exceptions to what i'm talking about
you're saying "there are many players playing" but at the same bemoaning the lack of people playing
the ones you refer to that are playing are the ones that have the time/can afford to play. yeah, obv some people can do it.
but it appears to me, that more and more people can not with any kind of regularity.
i dont see any other reason why you would "quit" a game. regardless of how active it was, you'd want to play the game you love.
 

BBQ°

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I don't know much about the other fighting game communities but I'm pretty sure the majority are 18 and older and they are holding stronger than the Melee community. Sure, real life gets in the way but there is always time for fun/games/sex/drugs/hoes.
 

GA Peach

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CHUG! CHUG! CHUG!
lol @ trying to get the melee community revived.

at least in GA, a lot of the smash players won't even go to events that could get the scene revitalized. imo, a lot of smashers are too content with being in niche groups and nothing more. i think someone else posted a similar thread in here about a similar subject, or at least one that coincides with this one.
 

P. O. F.

Smash Ace
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lol @ trying to get the melee community revived.

at least in GA, a lot of the smash players won't even go to events that could get the scene revitalized. imo, a lot of smashers are too content with being in niche groups and nothing more. i think someone else posted a similar thread in here about a similar subject, or at least one that coincides with this one.
You play SF. Ohhhh yeah. lol


In regards to your response sleepy-When I say that smashers are "kids" I dont mean literally. I mean figuratively. You're gonna sit there and tell me that smashers are mature? The same group of kids that cry over venue fees and tipping? Or dont pay people who drive them? Have you seen Facebook lately dude? Half of these people on here do not have money to travel to APEX but are asking for funding so they can go? I'll just stop right there.

Also, way to try to act mature in your post and then bring up points/an argument that has nothing to do with what is being discussed right now. I graduated high school dude. This girl spilled apple juice on me in 9th grade....but I got over it. lol.

Your attempt is a nice gesture, but its a waste of time dude.
 
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