Evo's Ruleset Announcement (UPDATED RULES)

[SamuraiPanda]

Please keep this civil. I am just as disappointed as the rest of you, but keep swearing and flaming under control.

Despite these being beta, these will mostly likely be the final ruleset minus a few tweaks in the next week. We just wanted to put them out there so people can discuss and make valid points.

Arguing in this thread in a non-civil manner will get you a ban ( no warnings required.)

Evo Brawl Beta Ruleset Revision 19
These rules are tentative and subject to change at any time.

First game of a match to be played on Smashville. Players can decide to play on any map, if both players agree.
Excessive stalling or abusing terrain to not engage the enemy is prohibited, and can be enforced by a tournament director only. This will result in a loss of the match.
Losing player can pick a new stage or new character, not both.
Winner keeps character (users of Samus/Zamus, Zelda/Shiek, and Pokemon Trainer are currently ALLOWED to change which character/mode they start in even after a win) but must select character/mode before other player has to choose stage/character.
3 Stock, 5 Min timer, 2/3 Games
Items on medium spawn.
Sudden Death will not decide the outcome of the game.
Allowed Items: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Franklin Badge.
Banned Stages: New Pork City, Hyrule Temple, Warioware, Spear Pillar, Flat Zone 2, Original Mario Brothers, Mushroomy Kingdom.

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since its clear people dont read any other posts that the first one, ill just edit this one
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Ok so im glad to see people are being some what constructive on the rules, they are beta and can be changed. First let me adresss some of the concerns.

The stock life was intended to make several matches so that you could mix up characters and stages if you needed a counter character. It seems most people dont like that change as posted. Moving it to 4 minutes is out of the question if staying at 3/5 matches, but we can move it to 3 stock/ 5 minutes 2/3 if that is better.

On my original list for rules Sudden Death was turned off, and it was the higher percentage wins after the round. There is zero options to turn this off, and people had stated this was the way to go. We can reverse the change if that many people are displeased with the sudden death finisher. WE just have to be have very skilled judges that watch for the percentages as the round comes to a end.

The excessive stalling rule is not what you think it is, and would almost never be called in tournament play. Its just to prevent people from going under the stage and going where it is extremely hard to hit someone. If you are on the left wall defending yourself by throwing items at the other player, that is fine. Turtling is a part of the game, so we wont interfere. The rule is only there for stage exploitation. If there is no human contact with each other in a few minutes, then im pretty sure we would call it. It is not meant for turtling or chain grabbing or anything where you are still engaging the enemy. We could also just eliminate that rule since Evo has the rule we reserve the right to change the rules at any time for any reason, but putting this out there deters people from even trying it.

The custom stage was only brought up because I asked around and zero people could come up with a neutral stage to play on. I had previously thought that Final Destination was a fair stage, but many people disagreed, and said it was super unfair now. If everyone can come up with a stage that is neutral im all for it. Otherwise we will use a custom stage that is super basic and favors no one. Smashville anyone?

Most stages in smash are super controversial. They offer alot of BS to exploit and have crazy things to do. We are open to adding more stages to tbe ban list, but you have to provide reasoning on why it should be banned along with some evidence. Mushroomy kingdom was banned because you can get stuck behind the pipes, and norfair seems to be 95% lava. If I wrong on that, tell me and ill review the stages.

Those are my initial thoughts, keep it constructive and we will see what we can do to make it better.

Thanks.

Thread: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=155899

 

[Yuna-Maria]

I'd agree that this is pretty crazy. I still don't know about my opinion on it, because I see the logic on the arguments both for and against this.

 

[Rampage]

if they say 3 minutes just so they can record matches then that's just dumb. You wouldn't know who's playing in the recordings anyways since they don't keep the tags, only the players number
They should just stick with what they always use. Regular recording equipment. and 3 stock. 2 stock is not enough

I'm not even going to touch on the items. and what's with the banned stages? What about counter picks? and why isn't that retro donkey kong stage on that list?

 

[Firestorm88]

I signed up but apparently I need to wait for an admin to validate me. I'll post my thoughts here for now.

First game of a match to be played on Evo Custom Map. Players can decide to play on any map, if both players agree.

Uh why? Instead of making their own maps, why not stick with Smashville? That seems fair enough for most characters and is already on everybody's Wii. For a game that they are calling "All-Brawl" I'm surprised they want to change more than we do.
Update: Rules changed to Smashville. I am fine with this.

Excessive stalling or abusing terrain to not engage the enemy is prohibited, and can be enforced by a tournament director only. This will result in a loss of the match.

Ok.

Losing player can pick a new stage or new character, not both.

Horrible. Brawl depends on counterpicking characters even moreso than Melee. Why not stick with the old counter-pick method? This is Evo trying to be different for the sake of being different. Adds nothing to the system we already had in place.

Winner keeps character (users of Samus/Zamus, Zelda/Shiek, and Pokemon Trainer are currently ALLOWED to change which character/mode they start in even after a win) but must select character/mode before other player has to choose stage/character.

Congratulations, their rules are more complicated than the ones we had now.

2 Stock, 3 Min timer, 3/5 Games

If time is an issue, I think 3 stock, 6 minute time limit, best 2 of 3 would work better. 3 minutes is too short for 2 stock and this makes no sense anyway as we don't need to save replays. This is an offline tournament. 2 stock isn't enough to really have an interesting game of comebacks. Why not go with the standard? This is Evo being different for the sake of being different yet again.
Update: Matches are 3 stock, 2/3, 5 minutes now. I would prefer 6 minutes. Not every match would last 5 minutes each and not every match would hit 3 matches. I believe the average set will still be under 15 minutes while killing off most ties this way. However, much better than 2 stock.

Items on medium spawn.

I disagree with this, but considering every time items are brought up on Evo the children start attacking the anti-item crowd as "trolls", I'll have to leave this argument alone.

Sudden Death will decide the outcome of the game.

Ok. This makes rules less complicated as well.
Update: No more SD. I don't mind.

Allowed Items: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Blast Box, Franklin Badge.

I question some of these items, but hey, whatever, go for it.

Banned Stages: New Pork City, Hyrule Temple, Warioware, Spear Pillar, Flat Zone 2, Original Mario Brothers, Mushroomy Kingdom, Norfair.

Norfair is banned? Why? This makes me question their other bans as well. It doesn't take much playtesting to see Norfair is fine. I'd add 75m to this list instead of Norfair.

All in All
Evo obviously doesn't give a **** about this game. If they wanted us for the attendance, I don't see why they want to turn us away. Their rules aren't simpler, they're arguably more complicated due to the changes and the introduction of specific item bans. I guess there will be no Smash next year. A bit of a shame. Even Nintendo put together a better tournament at Nintendo World #2.

Evo has shunned Smash for years. Now they want us. Ok. However, this community has grown in the past 7 years and we have our own rules. If you want to attract us to your tournament, then let us play the way we want. I can see Smashers in the area of the tournament attending. I cannot see people flying in from the opposite side of the country or Canada or even from two states away to this tournament.
Updated: Take items out, remove Norfair from ban list and add 75m and hopefully Port City, but most importantly CHANGE THE COUNTERPICK METHOD, and you have a tournament people would want to attend.

 

[WanderingAngel]

Losing player can pick a new stage or new character, not both.

thats the most stupid rule then who gets to chose the stage if the loser changes character, random? then whats the point in counterpicking

 

[blindhobo]

Well, this is going to be ****. I had actually thought Evo might listen to the actual smash community on advice for rules. Silly me.

Matches are probably going to be boring as hell to watch too. Probably filled with scrubs also as I can't imagine many good players going to this ****.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a7JC4E-RHLY

 

[TTT]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=a7JC4E-RHLY

Unmatched in speed or skill. Best of the Best. EVO 2k8.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Matches are probably going to be boring as hell to watch too. Probably filled with scrubs also as I can't imagine many good players going to this ****.

This is exactly what I thought when Brawl was released.

 

[Kirin]

Thir ruleset is a JOKE.

 

[Inui]

EVO itself is a joke now. With the destruction of Smash and them being foolish enough to remove Guilty Gear and the regionals, it will fail.

So, who cares?

 

[AltF4]

That's a big disappointment.

I was really excited when I heard EVO picked up Brawl. It would have been an opportunity for it to sink or swim as a competitive game, and certainly get a good foot forward to other large scale tournaments. But with items on and 2 stock matches it will be utterly random.

Who would want to travel across the country to go to a to a tournament that is going to be decided entirely on luck? Whether or not Brawl can be competitive at all is obviously another debate, but with these rules it doesn't get a fair chance.

 

[Zig-Zag!]

Evo, more like Devo.

As in...deevolution...

...not the band.

...though actually, the band too, really.

 

[Hylian]

Texas was going to go and show its support at Evo.


Not anymore. These rules are horrible. I am not going to spend money to travel to a tournament that will be won with luck.


Good thing we have tournaments like FAST and the AZ tournament.

Evo was ok in 2007. Why would they ruin it?

 

[Cookiez]

*Swears and flames*.

"Losing player can pick a new stage or new character, not both. ". Not much more to say.

Edit: Still, I'd like to keep an open mind. SRK forums are making me laugh at the moment .

 

[comboking]

These rules make it near pointless to have SSBB as a game in competition. Say bye to all the competitive players who are truly skilled at this game. I was going to come from Canada with my crew but the rules fail so hard it is a complete joke. Have fun playing a tournament based purely on luck!

Bye Evo. 2007 was good.
some guy from evo said it all

 

[Dogysamich]

Ok, im not gunna lie.

Ever since EVO announced brawl, i've been upset. Because they're treating brawl like a standard fighting game, which it's not. I mean, they should, since it's EVO, it's a fighting game tourney, and they know jack **** about Smash; but they're having it anyway.

I've been upset because of how brawl is, how it functions, and how matches are won. Because having fun and winning are two completely opposite things for most characters.

__

However, I will say; for everybody who wanted to go to EVO for Brawl.

You guys got ****ed.

And this is why we cant have nice things. I was making my rounds on SRK, and i see people saying "We dont care about SWF, which is why we did it".

I kinda saw that happening, but oh dear god. Custom stages? CP rule? And items. I mean, items by themselves are bad, but the choice of items they have? -sighs-

________________

I will say one thing in evo's (actually, SRK's) defense, though.

They're trying to make a new non-competitive game a competitive game.

Before you jump down my throat, I dont mean competitive in the sense of "Two people playing against each other for a prize". You can do that in any head to head game.

I mean a game that was specifically created and released to be played in tournaments for major prizes. That is something that NO smash game was. (Melee just worked out).

With that being said, if you look at 90% of the games, how do they work? You pull them out of the box, you pop the disc in; and you have near arcade perfect versions. You might have to ban a character here and there, adjust the round setting; but for the most part you're done.

With smash however, you have to change the game mode, turn off items (supposedly, lol), and ban stages. It's completely different from anything else.

They just think they can get away with having items and whatnot on. I personally cannot wait to see the finals decided by a random blastbox falling in front of a smash.

... or a good ol' landmaster kill off the top. XD

 

[Mr. Ryu]

Evo is trolling smashers lol.

 

[-Wolfy-]

We should have expected as much from a community that for the most part shuns smash.
As for Keits, let him become the worlds best item user. More power to him. The SWF community will understand the level of legitimacy anyone gains from winning at EVO this year if the rules stick.

 

[Anth0ny]

Those rules are terrible.

 

[KingofCereal]

I think the worst rule concerns the first stage. Why on earth would they create a stage and declare that to be neutral? There are sufficient neutral-like stages in Brawl already.
Second worst is the inclusion of items like home-run bat, hammers, and bumpers. Items are not the spawn of satan, but those are just ridiculous.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

lol best item user? Doesn't he main Wario? Wario's top tier in items because he can eat them at will. It's not really fair lol. Sure DDD and Kirby can also eat them but they eat items too slow.

 

[Nintendude]

I don't think items are a big deal but wtf's up with the Evo custom first stage? The "counterpick" rules are awful too. I don't think many people are going to be willing to travel very far for this one, but I hope that SWF players take the top spots just to shut SRK up. I've gotten the impression that, in addition to underestimating our best players, they think that now they have a chance just because they aren't following our standard rulesets.

 

[memphischains]

I'm struggling not to explode

 

[JTB]

Yeahuyzz, we make an awesome impression on EVO last year, then they turn around and **** us this year with god awful rules.

Good ****.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Sigh, they removed advanced slob picks in favor of the less deep "winner must stay character" system.

Not to mention they don't talk about what stages you play for the rest of the set. Does it simply remain the "evo custom" map, the entire time?

Its like items are included for depth for no other reason then it adds an element of play, but then their set procedure goes and waters down similar elements (less diverse character/stage match ups).

 

[SiYkO]

I'm a big fan of evo, and this pisses me off. I hope I don't follow the tradition of getting banned for disagreeing with a mod for my post on that thread.

 

[I_R_Hungry]

Basically I'm just confused as to why they actually thought it was reasonable to go with the exact ruleset that would piss off the main smash community off the most. >_>

 

[Loyal2NES]

I always hear people telling me that the Smash Community is a joke in the eyes of the rest of the fighting community.

Then I see stuff like Evo's ruleset and I wonder just who's the joke here...

 

[Pimp Willy]

You did not make an awesome impression at Evo last year. Everyone was ****ing bored and sleeping through the melee finals, and it was pretty much widely considered to be the most boring part of the event. To the already hardcore smashers, yeah maybe, but to the larger audience, it was a travesty.

To equate this ruleset to only winning by "luck" is silly- a much more random tournament, the gamestop series, was won by respected players right? The better players will find a way to win.

Also, the 3 minute rule wasn't intended for replays: it's intended to keep the time schedule. Evo runs a ruleset that wants individual matches to take no longer than 15 minutes: 3 stock 7 minute 2/3 goes over this (21 minutes), 2 stock 4 minute 3/5 goes over this (20 minuteS), whereas 2 stock 3 minutes 3/5 fits this fine. If it came down to either 3 stock 5 minute 2/3 or 2 stock 5 minute 2/3 or 2 stock 3 minute 3/5, which would you rather see?

 

[po pimpus]

W...t...f...?

I am completely shocked and dumbfounded by EVO's ruleset. As earlier posts have pointed towards, it seems as if the SRK community just wanted to piss all the SWFers off.

Congratulations, SRK and EVO, you have completely ruined your reputation. I thought that you guys were somewhat respectable, what with years of hosting the biggest fighting game tourney around, but now you come across as irresponsible, short-sighted, and dare I say, elitist.

You think your rules are better, fine. We'll see when Brawl has those record turnouts (Can't wait to see that 10-man bracket...) Well, it will probably be more, because its Brawl, but I don't think having a bunch of 8-year-olds playing is going to be that exciting of a competition.

Items I can deal with, but YOUR choice of items, beyond lame. Bob-ombs, are you freaking kidding?!

You seriously think that 3-min, 2-stock is going to work? No. All that will do is lead to a bunch of stupid Sudden Death finishes that won't determine anything close to resembling skill.

Stages. A custom stage? Just go with Battlefield, Smashville, or any other neutral for the first game. You ban Norfair but not 75m? WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN...

The counterpick(HA!) system is just that, a complete joke. There is no counterpicking in that system. With a game as heavily dependant on character match-ups as Brawl, there is no room for error in counterpicking.
So you're telling me if I'm Ganondorf vs Dedede first round and get chaingrabbed to hell and back first round, its either stick with Ganon and change stages, which will do nothing to help me, or go Luigi and let Dedede select Shadow Moses and still own me? Or go random and hope that luck is with me that day? (Either way, I'm very likely screwed completely over)

You know, I was actually looking forward to EVO, having missed out on last year's action, and was really wanting to get into other fighters more seriously in addition to Smash.
However, if this is how the SRK community treats the other communities that aren't Super Turbo or Marvel, then count me out indefinitely.

So to close, peace out EVO and SRK, you had a chance to do something huge for the Smash community and up your own status as organizers, but instead you chose to be childish and petty. If you didn't want us in your little party, you could have just flat out said so instead of ruining any chance Brawl had at being headliner status.

Well guys, guess we'll have to keep fending for ourselves. We've rocked better tournaments than EVO for the past seven years, and we can keep on rocking them with Brawl and Melee.


IF YOU WANT SOMETHING DONE RIGHT...

 

[Shai Hulud]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. If time runs out and both players are still alive, it goes to sudden death? And there's a 3-minute time limit. And items are on medium. In other words, we can expect at least 25% of matches to end at sudden death from exploding **** falling from the sky. Haha, too good.

 

[po pimpus]

You did not make an awesome impression at Evo last year. Everyone was ****ing bored and sleeping through the melee finals, and it was pretty much widely considered to be the most boring part of the event. To the already hardcore smashers, yeah maybe, but to the larger audience, it was a travesty.

To equate this ruleset to only winning by "luck" is silly- a much more random tournament, the gamestop series, was won by respected players right? The better players will find a way to win.

Also, the 3 minute rule wasn't intended for replays: it's intended to keep the time schedule. Evo runs a ruleset that wants individual matches to take no longer than 15 minutes: 3 stock 7 minute 2/3 goes over this (21 minutes), 2 stock 4 minute 3/5 goes over this (20 minuteS), whereas 2 stock 3 minutes 3/5 fits this fine. If it came down to either 3 stock 5 minute 2/3 or 2 stock 5 minute 2/3 or 2 stock 3 minute 3/5, which would you rather see?

I have to double-post to respond to this guy...

We BORED you, is that it? Then WHY would you allow Smash, any Smash game back into your fold then, if it was such a horrid event?

This is BS, because as the videos and even several SRKers have stated shows that the Smash event was very exciting and full of tension/drama. Just because Smashers don't run around ripping their shirts off after a big win and actually show SPORTSMANSHIP and respect for one another does not make us boring.

God forbid Mew2King starts running around, talking **** to everyone just because he won, or we have PC talking gangsta about how he's gonna whoop someone's *** in real life over a vidya game...

And if time was such a concern, you could still run a 3-stock 5-6 min(7 is not needed) best of 3 and be done in a reasonable time frame. OR(I can't believe I'M saying this...) JUST RUN MELEE. But hey, you're in it for the money, not the players, I understand...

 

[Zankoku]

I'd rather see the 2-stock 5 minutes 2/3 because at least then we won't get tons of games decided because of time.

 

[Brightside6382]

Don't blame evo for a bad ruleset blame brawl for being a bad game.

 

[TheManaLord]

Don't blame evo for a bad ruleset blame brawl for being a bad game.

Best thing I've ever seen.

 

[Yuna-Maria]

SRK is the devil

Don't make the mistake of lumping all of SRK into one category. I came here, from there, and I, like much of SRK, am just as annoyed by this as you are.
Evo's been making a lot of people on SRK mad as of late. For me, it's been three things in particular:

1. Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix
This was announced by Mr. Wizard on SRK as a solution to the 'unbalanced' Super Turbo. That right there is bullcrap. ST isn't unbalanced when a Cammy can waltz up and beat the living tar out of Old Sagat. Their efforts to balance this game have only served to make it broken from the professional standpoint.

2. The absurd snubbing of Guilty Gear
It was announced that after Marvel, ST, Third Strike, Tekken, and Smash, only one other game could be an official event, and it was a tossup between Guilty Gear XX Accent Core and Capcom vs. SNK 2. For those who don't know, Guilty Gear is one of the most popular games in the world and is still getting more and more players in the States. CvS2, on the other hand, hit its stride three or four years ago, and now is running on nostalgia. It's old, boring, and stale. So, naturally, SRK picks CvS2 as their last main event. They call it a 'final farewell,' but that game didn't need a big send-off. Evo needed the turnout that Guilty Gear would provide, and instead, they made a decision that's comparable to entering NASCAR with a Ford Model T.

3. This idiotic Brawl ruleset
I'm not gonna lie. At first, I was supportive of this. However, after giving it thought and reading through it several times, the ruleset for Brawl at Evo is nothing short of laughable. The inclusion of items is not something that I immediately oppose, despite my personal distaste for them. However, the inclusion of such items as Bumpers, Green Shells, Bob-ombs, Blast Boxes, Screw Attacks, and Smash Balls makes me wonder if I should ask the Evo execs for some of their crack. In addition, the stages that are banned aren't all even banned by the competitive Smash scene. My biggest gripe is Norfair. It's one of my favorite stages and doesn't need a ban, especially when the likes of Port Town Aero Drive and 75m are still open. I realize that Evo is attempting to innovate, but part of me wonders if they shouldn't have just continued being blissfully ignorant of Smash and giving the "NO ITEMS FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION" argument. This is just ridiculous.

Three strikes, you're out. If it weren't for the SNK scene being centered around it, I'd just forget the tournament altogether. I won't be in any official events. Peace out, Evo.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Whatever, I can't do anything about this, so there's no point in arguing. The only thing I can imagine that would change SRK's choice of rulesets is if a ton of good, legit, intelligent smashers wrote up something explaining why items should be off etc. I mean, SRK could just be geniuses, and this may balance out Brawl and make it a great game.

I doubt it though.

 

[Finch]

Don't blame evo for a bad ruleset blame brawl for being a bad game.

rofl. This is exactly why smashers are so angry. First we're all excited for the melee sequel and get a huge slap in the face with this abomination of a game that not only in bad for competition but ironically has a budding tournament scene (big tournaments in FL get 130 players on average) while the better game is slowly dying. Then we get **** on these Evo rules.

In conclusion brawl is gay.

 

[po pimpus]

Yeah, dude, sorry for the SRK-hate, but with EVO and SRK being so intimately linked, its hard to differentiate the jerks from the intelligent debaters. I myself have met several cool SRK peeps and was just blowing off steam from this deathblow that EVO has delivered unto Brawl and the Smash community.

Also, the idiots of any community are always the loudest and most aggressive, look at our forums; the Brawl idiots(not to be confused with the intellegent Brawl supporters) and Melee dolts just make every argument here a massive flame war... its just the way democracy works.

So yeah, EVO, for shame. As if 2D fighting tournaments needed to becomer SMALLER in scale...