Evo's Ruleset Announcement (UPDATED RULES)

[polarity]

Items spawn at random, you never know which item is spawned so it's a luck of the draw. the luck we talk about and the luck used in magic is completely different. Players in magic use cards their decks need in order to run well. so you draw the cards you need at that point in time or you draw cards you'll need later, this isn't the same thing as being in the right place at the right time so to speak.

Uh, it's exactly the same as MTG in that it's randomness that can be mitigated by player action. In MTG, you do it by deck construction and card/time advantage; in Smash, you do it by controlling the stage. You seem to be under the impression that randomness never plays a role in determining the outcome of MTG games. People get screwed by bad opening hands or win thanks to lucky topdecks all the time, but the results for the game in high-level play are still extremely consistent, because in the long run these are minor incidences.

 

[Firestorm88]

Way to keep an open mind.

Regardless of what "everyone" thinks, people would show in support. I know I'd rather play an FFA than a "real" match, that's just what I like. I don't think less of people who like to play in a more restricted, less luck based environment, I just don't do it myself. Think of it as leveling the playing field, so that everyone has a shot at winning something. If you don't find that idea appealing, or just dismiss it as "inferior" to tournament play, then you're just as elitist as the SRK boys. People might initially think that it's strange, or insult it, but if they watch, they'll find it's just as exciting to watch two experienced players use their skill as it is to watch Dialga blow away all of their opponents in a single blow.

What he said might have been crude, but he did say "in competitive play".

 

[The Bino]

lol here you show that you dont know much about their game



and then you bash them... it would be stupid to think that you would not get flamed

Actually i don't know much about their advanced play, but i play SF games, and yes there isn't any recovery lag at all, which is 100% true, so my question still remains relevant, which is how they enjoy a recovery lag free game. Lets use nothing but powerful attacks, since they have little start up lag and NO RECOVERY LAG, the quick hits only allow the opponent to get some hit stun then boom a powerful combo starts, which i understand that, but you can then chain 2 or 3 5hit combos or more powerful hits one right after another... know how i know this, cuz i've done it... and the hit stun is insane, the quick attacks hit stun is too powerful, then theirs no recovery lag.... punishment is not relevent in that game unless you hit the wrong button and don't do a Spinning Kick, Haduken, Shoryuken or anything of their special moves....

If i bashed em, it wasn't like i said Melee owns any SF game ever, which it actually does, but its still not the point

Okay everyone, I've reached some conclusions for myself personally and I'm hoping others may resonate similar ideas.

I would have liked EVO to be a staple for the Smash community similar to what MLG was. They picked up Smash, after all, because of the strength of the community here at Smashboards. It seemed only logical that they would cater the rules toward the competitive standard and not something contrived on SRK. This is where my problem was, and why it was upseting.

Instead of viewing this as EVO taking in the Smash community, just look at it in the same light as the Nintendo or Gamestop tournaments. No one complained about the rules for those events because we made the assumption they had no idea what they were doing and that they were catering toward a larger crowd, not the competitive players. I could be entirely possible that EVO is attempting the same thing. Regardless though, Kirbster pointed out we should let the free-market do the work for us. If you like the rules and the tournament, go, if you don't, don't go. At this point in time, I'm ceasing my debate on this topic and I hope many of you do the same, it simply draws out the worst from people on both sides, and doesn't help at all considering it looks like the position on items simply will not be budged.

If you mirror these sentiments, and want the debate simply to die because things won't go anywhere, and you simply want the free market to take affect, then simply ignore this thread and others like it, it is what I'll be doing.

AZ is the man, my thoughts exactly lol

i won't go to EVO tourney's, simply for the reason why i don't go to Gamebattles anymore, RULES SUCK, so i don't go... it's not hard to do neither ppl

 

[C@sH Mooney]

Personally, I'd love to see brawl fail.

Keep it up, EVO.

Uh, it's exactly the same as MTG in that it's randomness that can be mitigated by player action. In MTG, you do it by deck construction and card/time advantage; in Smash, you do it by controlling the stage. You seem to be under the impression that randomness never plays a role in determining the outcome of MTG games. People get screwed by bad opening hands or win thanks to lucky topdecks all the time, but the results for the game in high-level play are still extremely consistent, because in the long run these are minor incidences.

topdecks don't happen in this game sir, you must be thinking of yugioh

 

[Aesir]

Top Deck victories don't happen in competitive magic, they're to far in between to be taken into account. I think it's incredibly ignorant to compare competitive magic to being luck oriented.

It's in no way the same as in brawl, items don't care how much of the stage you're controlling they'll spawn right next to the other player if they feel like it.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

They've happened like twice in pro tours. lol

LIGHTING HELIX!1!1!!!

 

[Aesir]

Considering competitive magic has been around since atleast 97 and only 2 top decks ever happened, I think it's safe to say it's not something that happens a lot.

However in brawl no matter how much your controlling the stage it's naive to think you're not going to see items spawning next to a player who doesn't deserve that advantage. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they spawned next to losing players more, the way Sakurai likes to give losing players advantages over the winning players regardless of skill.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Are we seriously comparing Brawl to competitive card games?

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Right. One place, 4 styles, not excluding anyone. Hold it somewhere that's aprox. equal distance from everybody, like St. Louis or Chicago, and you've got yourself some good times.

You can even build a wall to keep the FFAers out of your area, if you so desire.

A Smash Series/Tourney is a great idea. Screw Evo we'll hold our own major tournemant! With black jack... and hookers!

 

[polarity]

Considering competitive magic has been around since atleast 97 and only 2 top decks ever happened, I think it's safe to say it's not something that happens a lot.

However in brawl no matter how much your controlling the stage it's naive to think you're not going to see items spawning next to a player who doesn't deserve that advantage. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they spawned next to losing players more, the way Sakurai likes to give losing players advantages over the winning players regardless of skill.

None of you even know how often a game-winning item would spawn next to the player who controls less of the stage in high-level tournament play because you've never bothered to seriously test it.

Casual play doesn't count as serious testing, by the way.

 

[-Wolfy-]

None of you even know how often a game-winning item would spawn next to the player who controls less of the stage because you've never bothered to seriously test it.

Casual play doesn't count as serious testing, by the way.

Yes, you win.
Their "testing" is not "testing" by any standards.
Good on ya mate.

 

[BigRick]

topdecks don't happen in this game sir, you must be thinking of yugioh

Heart of the Cards! I believe in!

 

[BigRick]

Actually i don't know much about their advanced play, but i play SF games, and yes there isn't any recovery lag at all, which is 100% true, so my question still remains relevant, which is how they enjoy a recovery lag free game. Lets use nothing but powerful attacks, since they have little start up lag and NO RECOVERY LAG, the quick hits only allow the opponent to get some hit stun then boom a powerful combo starts, which i understand that, but you can then chain 2 or 3 5hit combos or more powerful hits one right after another... know how i know this, cuz i've done it... and the hit stun is insane, the quick attacks hit stun is too powerful, then theirs no recovery lag.... punishment is not relevent in that game unless you hit the wrong button and don't do a Spinning Kick, Haduken, Shoryuken or anything of their special moves....

lol 1st of all which SF game are you talkin about? because theres big differences between each series. If they all the same to you than you are really clueless.

And what you say is like totally false... there are recovery frames in SF, they're just not as obvious like Smash. You should try playing against ppl that know how to reversal or throw/alpha counter/parry... heck even lvl 8 cpu will punish alot of stuff when you use it wrong.

Yes the recovery frames of some moves can be cancelled by inputting another move, but not all moves are cancellable. Most heavy hits are unsafe on block unless they're properly spaced and if theyre cancellable you could only do it with a special. Also most of the time you can only chain light hits into more light hits... this is not Guilty Gear/MvC2 with gatlings you know?

 

[Nobie]

Drawing cards isn't as random as an powerful item randomly falling on you.

Theres a high chance that 3 assist trophies can land next to you late game. There isn't a high chance you'll draw burn spells late game in magic.

Though I should point out that only one assist trophy can be on screen at a time, so it's not like 3 will spawn next to you in a matter of seconds and you get to launch all of them at once.

Also, that if an assist trophy is active no other assist trophies are allowed to spawn.

 

[SynikaL]

And you want to know why I'm not posting anything with substance anymore? Because they blow off everything of substance that people write as nothing. They either ignore it or wave it by with a simple blanket statement they think covers their *****, but it doesn't. I gave up.

Is the lesson to be learned, here, that SRK itself is unreasonable? Or could it be that arguing subjective opinions on a videogame internet forum is ultimately pointless?

While I do view SRK as unreasonable, insufferable and many other things, I'm inclined to go with the latter. They are ultimately not much different than other videogame communities.

You only perceive them to be glancing over your worth, because your value there is disproportionate to what it is here. On smashboards, your voice is thunderous and weighty among the constituents of your like-minded supporters. At SRK, you're simply another blank-faced irritant, attempting to elevate his cries above a screaming chorus of imposers.

-Kimo