Evolution of the Smash Game

losvedir

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
139
#1
Hey all,

I'm relatively new to smashboards (not quite a year), and so things haven't changed much since I've been here. I played Smash before I found the website, but I had no idea about wavedashing, SHFFLing, etc, so I essentially happened upon a completely different game from what I was used to -- one where rolling was bad, where attacks could get shield-grabbed, and where there were.... tilts, and of course aerials, wavedashes, L-cancelling, teching, DIing, etc. It was sort of like explorers hacking their way through a jungle with machetes, clearing one final set of branches and emerging on a never before discovered civilization full of people with wings.

Anyway, this is a question for the Smash veterans. How did the game come to emerge like this? Who discovered what and how, and in what order? Did shorthopping come before L-cancelling? Did the prevalence of fast falling spark the discovery of L-cancelling? What was carryover from the N64 version? Were there tournaments before wavedashing and L-cancelling? Basically, I'm just curious how the game used to be, and how it came to be the way it was now. Was there ever a post on smashboards that was like "doods check this out -- if you hit L after an attack in the air, you're ready for your next one quicker"?

I saw an old video on Final Destination the other day that was crazy. I think Azen was one of the players, playing as Falco, and I couldn't believe my eyes as he was only full jumping. There was no SHL. Just got me thinking, was all.

So if any veterans here are looking for a few minutes to kill and feel like exercising their skills in magic and prose, I'd be happy to listen! Thanks.
 

Blind

Honorbound
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
1,055
#2
I too would be interested to know about this. Not really for improvement's sake, but losvedir has me all curious as well. Please don't let the topic get passed up :)
 

Adam es maximus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
267
Location
Durham,England
#3
i think short hopping was there from the start i did it before i came to the boards and i'm sure alot of others did to...
I'd be quite interested to find out how a game can turn into a hobby and then have the hobby turn into a community. Wavedashes might've been said by nintendo as they could've weeded it out when they wanted to so i hear. I think l-cancelling might've started by a player pressing l when he hit the floor with an attack to recover but he thought it would be a recovery thing. (i mean when you can't attack and you land on he ground u press l to reduce the ground time and do a flippy thing)
 

nealdt

BRoomer
GRimer
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
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Long Beach CA
#4
L-cancelling is an analog to Smash 64's Z-cancelling, so I imagine good Smash 64 players figured out Melee L-cancelling on the first day they got the game.
 

darkshadows

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
495
Location
In Melee discussion, being nice and keeping topics
#5
hmmm..im kinda new in the forums as well, but I know that the cpu short hops, although not for their benefit, and there is a bonus called "edgehogging" and that must of gotten smashes thinking. Fast falling must of been found on coincidence, DI from experience, and triangle jumping from being excited how cpus can't tell the difference between a triangle jump and a roll.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
829
Location
Illinois, Chicago Area
#6
At one point and time someone was also trying to collect the history of the evolution of the game. I can help a little, but they say the first thing to go with age is memory. I would also like to apologize in advance if I screw up the name of a stage as I don't own a GC at the moment.

Wavedashing was "invented" by a Luigi player (whose name sadly escapes me) from California and yes its discovery was an accident. This of course makes sense since I'm sure people had done it before on accident (I've even seen the computer do it a handful of times), but with Luigi it is by far the most noticeable. I don't remember the exact story, but I think it involved trying to quick item catch (back then California was by far the most vehement pro item tournament scene) as doing the jump into the air/dodge/catch was a safer method than standing catching, but Luigi's regular jump left him open to nasty counters thus the need for the short jumping. Again it's a bit fuzzy, but the move did catch on amazingly fast with every player trying to add it to their repertoire. Ironically the move really didn't become absolutely necessary for top level competition for months down the line.

As far as an evolution of tactics before wavedashing it was pretty advanced since people largely carried over their skills from the original smashbrothers. Things like L canceling, short jumping, shield canceling, and fast falling were all critical in the previous game so the community hit the ground running at that point.

There were a few major changes though in game dynamics from the first game. First and foremost was grabbing was strongly reduced in effectiveness. Players saw that grabs, in particular running grabs, where a far less viable means of KO, the % damage it inflicted was fairly marginal, and particularly at low damages it didn't set opponents up as nicely into combos (a common example was how characters like Fox and Sheik's dash attack flowed so nicely into their aerial kill moves). So dash grabs saw a decent decline in usage, particularly in offensive minded players. The result favored defensive players. They could shield grab with increased safety. Ironically this didn't immediately lead players into countering with more dash grabs, but rather with an emphasis on spacing moves (like Marth's aerial forward A) and "cross ups" (a nearly forgotten move where you time your dash attack to carry over to your opponents other side of the shield). The tournament scene remained this way until Ken started really started abusing dash grabs, "circle dashing" (dashing back and forth to goad your opponent into making an attack and then dashing in for the grab, not to be confused with "dash dancing" as wavedashing hadn't become effective yet), and grab combos, but this didn't happen until TG3. Also, with the removal of devastating spike moves from SSB there was a much greater emphasis on edge guarding and edge hogging. I also think it is crucial to emphasis the effect the Japanese competitive tournament had on SSBM development in America. It was by all accounts well beyond the American scene and with videos of matching for the first time becoming available players were able to improve in large part from imitation.

For those who don't know, TG is "Tournament Go" and is a California tournament which was hosted by Matt D (I hope I didn't goof his name, especially since he put me up for the weekend at TG3). This was not the first SSBM tournament or the biggest for that matter, but it was the first to attract extensive outofstaters and players from overseas. TG 2 saw the first outofstaters, but TG 3 was when it really became the Markey tournament in the country with over thirty players coming from all parts of the world (Mr. Silver made the trip all the way from Europe). It also set up TG 4 which was the first tournament to actually attract a top notch Japanese player (Captain Jack).

A quick side note on the evolution of the tournament scene:
There were essentially two major tournament format feuds: East Coast (primarily New York) versus West Coast (primarily California). It was pretty vicious for a while there and they had pretty vehement disagreements on the proper format for running a tournament.

West Coast tournament primary settings:
Pro items: The drop running ran from Low to Medium High. Most of the items were kept. I think the only thing dropped at first major healing items (heart and tomato). The argument for keeping items was that they involved skill in using and catching, discouraged camping since the aggressive player would have access to more item drop spots, and that the random factor was very small, particularly if character kept a mental check list of the item drops in various stages and were careful with their move spamming (the example given was Dr. Mario abusing his pills in front of an item dropping point and crying randomness when a bomb drops in front of his pill). This argument was highly controversial.

Best of 3 matches with low stock: The number of stock varied, but it gravitated mainly between 3 and 4. The items were progressively cut back, until eventually going to a no item policy.

Pro Stage Variety: At first all stages where included with the stage being random for the first match and then the loser allowed to pick a "counter" stage. This too was gradually cut back with stages that lent themselves to running away like Hyrule and Mushroom Kingdom being cut out. This was likewise validated by the belief that unique stages represented an essential flavor of SSBM and that avoiding and using stage hazards was another aspect of skill. They eventually went to a "neutral" stage for the first match with it being random out of a field of 6-8 stages.

Character counterpicking: Loser was also allowed to choose a counter character with winner having to maintain his pick.

Time limit: This wasn't introduced until TG 3 and was highly controversial at the time. It was enacted to force action, but many feared it would lead to characters like Fox getting chip damage with their projectiles and running away for the rest of the timer.

Seeding: This was based on how players did in previous TGs and was also highly criticized since it gave advantage to local players who could in each TG without travel expense and did not factor in placing from other tournaments. It also made it slightly more likely that people would face members of their own crew in the opening rounds.

Duel Elimination
East Coast tournament settings:
No items: Items were completely thrown out as random factors and played into the East Coast's attempt to create an almost minimalist and "pure" experience. They pointed to how a character having a bat dropped infront of them or pulling a legendary from a pokeball was given a huge advantage with little skill of his own.

One match high stock: The big New York tournament played with 10 stock, which was highly controversial. It was argued that this not only illiminated randomness through fluke suicides, but that it forced opponents to adjust to their opponents strategy and improvise on the go.

One Stage: Final Desitination was the only stage available. It was picked because it was felt to best incorporate all the aspects of the game. It had edges, thus allowing edge guarding. It was about equally difficult to KO an opponent from above or the sides (as say with Yoshi Story where falco can shine combo you off the top of the stage with no damage).

One Character: The argument was that being able to counter pick an opponent shouldn't give you a free victory. This was also highly controversial.

Ultimately despite the superior numbers of the early New York Tournaments (they were the first to top 50) the common consensus among the disinterested community was that the West Coast format had come out on top. However, in retrospect it was really more of a draw with major aspects of both systems being incorporated. A lot of changes also came from other places in the country. "Dave's stupid rule" was put to use in the first major tournament in MOAST (a Texas tournament), which prevented counterpicking the same stage you got on random (though Chicago tournaments were the first to use it, even before it was named by Dave, but that so goes Hollywood). Ohio was the first to modify the counter picking, with the loser picking the stage, winner having the option to repick a character, and then the loser being able to repick his character. The rest of the country also turned off items and drastically cut back stages despite its maintained popularity in California.

Here is a fairly accurate of early tier lists:
1) Sheik. There was a point where a lot of people thought Sheik was unbalanced to the point of potentially ruining the game as she could be played effectively offensively or defensively. TG 2 was won by a (largely) turtling Sheik.
2) Fox. A bit of anxiety on just where he ranked. Once people adapted to the timing in interrupting his comeback there was a lot of anxiety that he was too easy a character to exploit. Matt D is credited as the first person to actively use Fox's reflector as a pseudo spike ("shine spike"). The original fox also relied a lot more on his aerial flip kick than the modern processors and it wasn't until a while down the road until the drill into shine combination was discovered. This lead to the idea that Fox was the perfect character in someone had the super human reflexes to fully utilize him.
3) Falco. Perhaps the most widely fluctuating character. It took a while for players to realize the potential of his spike as a ground attack. In some places like California, Minnesota, and Washington you saw Falco as one of the most popular characters, while in places like the Midwest he was much less prominent at first. Among doubters there was the beliefs that he just too punishable for the slightest mistake. Characters like Peach could do 80% damage combos and up and him.
4) Marth. Another character that was popular in some regions like the Midwest, but not really touched in places like the West Coast. Critics argued that his comeback was one of the worst in the game and that he was too reliant on his smash for kills, but players like Ken and Eduardo continued to win large tournaments. Marth was the character to really bring offensive grabbing back in vogue, particularly due to the almost unfair speed and distance he had as well as how nicely it set up further combos plus that his dash attacks are rather poor.
5) ----. There was no real agreement here and it varied wildly from month to month. At first Link was actually one of the most popular characters in very early tournaments, but he quickly disappeared as shield grabbing became less and less effective. Luigi and Mario were both popular characters at the early stages. Peach was fairly unpopular at the beginning, most likely due to her bizarre play style (which Peach enthusiasts like myself believe to be the most unique of any character and demand almost complete dedication to her) but steadily grew, most notably after winning a huge Washington tournament. Captain Falcon saw representation, but there was a fear that he was simply too wild to control effectively. By far the most dramatic example though was Yoshi who saw almost no tournament play in anywhere but Washington, but was hugely popular there with five very skilled Yoshi players traveling down for TG 3. Ness and Jigglypuff were moderately popular and even won a few tournaments (most notably MOAST 2). For a while Jigglypuff actually became one of the more popular tournament characters. Other characters were almost completely unknown until one player would revolutionize the old thoughts. A good example is Eddie's use of Gannon or Chu’s (I think) use of the Ice Climbers, though the Ice Climbers really didn't gain much steam a couple years later. Some characters like Samus were popular at first and then seen as not tournament viable only to be revisited once Isaiah reinvigorated her play style. While these characters never saw wide scale use, you did see the styles of these first players aped in friendlies. It should also be noted that while Bowzer was regarded as the worst character in the game, he also had the most dedicated fan base and while Bowzer didn't get much respect until a while down the road, it was the early devotees that made his redemption possible.

It's hard to say exactly when the game became as completely dedicated to speed as you see it today. I would have to say that Ken is probably the largest catalyst. His "dash dancing" dramatically speed up the pace of matches. Before matches were much more measured and planned out. The best counter to "dash dancing" is spamming short jumps. Players certainly knew how to do it, but with the exception of short hopping Falco's lasers it wasn't really put to full use. I would say that Eddie was the first to feature a repertoire of almost exclusively short jumping to L canceling. This was what was so revolutionary about how he played Ganon, he could make him fast. Whether or not due to Eddie's influence, you start to see players like Azen and Ken like wise start abusing quick short jumps with characters like Fox, Sheik, and Marth. However, it was probably Isaiah that showed that every character could benefit dramatically from incorporating quick short hopping with his surprising Samus, DK, and even Kirby. It really lead to the point in which a lot of characters are played dramatically similar. I remember hearing complaints/praise of Azen that said he could play almost every character at a very high level, but he pretty much played them the same. However wavedashing still wasn't an absolutely vital tournament tool. You would occasionally see "wave dashing", but outside of people who played Luigi and to a much lesser extent Samus and Marth, it wasn't used that often. Ironically perhaps the first person to demonstrate it as a possible tournament dominating form was Mike G’s Peach. To my knowledge he was the first player to consistently use wavedashing to such a dominating effect in tournaments. From that point on you start to see people playing remarkably similar to today’s player.

As I stated earlier my memory has some gaps. For example I have next to knowledge of the European scene and how it has interacted with the American tournament scene. I’m also not particularly well informed about East Coast tournaments. Maybe you can rope one of the EC old timers in. Anyways I hope that answers some of your questions.
 

losvedir

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
139
#8
Wow, exactly what I was looking for! Thanks so much SmashBroPro, that was fascinating.

Anyone else want to add to what he had to say?
 

Vegeta SSj4 Eva

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
102
Location
The Twilight Zone
#10
Exemplary and Informative post :)

On a side note, From my unerstandment of the games chaos mechanism and systematic possibilities, All so called advanced skills or techniques (while I do agree they are advanced) are only the secondary manifestation of the Games Physics and Chaos Engine, but are now incorporated in such ways that they appear as actual hidden abilities. For example, wavedashing is only the byproduct of the ground friction to the characters momentum force from the dodge, thus resulting in variating sliding distances depending on the characters weight and mass. As for speeding up the game, to play a character at the top tier speed allowed for that given character (when all techniques are used to the fullest extent), I believe entitles most characters combatable abilities for representation in competative Smash. All in all, to Play Smash at its fully thoerized state is an exclusivist experience reserved for the most Imperialist and Elite of Smashers ;)
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
939
Location
Sunshine State
#11
Facts on Wavedashing

- The game testers and programmers of Super Smash brothers Melee were the first to discover "wavedashing".
- The programmers of the game deemed it the "super wave land".
- They thought of it as a unique way to land on a platform and continue to move.
- Wavedashing is done by air dodging into the ground, by doing this you use the momentum of the air dodge to continue to move at a decelerated rate and momentum dependent upon the characters traction unto the platform.
- The lower the friction of a platform the farther distance a wavedash will go.
- A wavedash that is done slowly will result in a triangle jump.
- Wavedashing was first discovered ( if you dont count the game testers and programmers) by a luigi player named pimpuigi.
- Wavedashing is a way to accelerate yourself while staying in the neutral position.
- Anything that can be done in a neutral position can be done out of a wavedash.
- During the first few frames of a wavedash you remain in your landing position.

I hope this fed some of your curiosity.



-Shine Advent-
 

Red Alert

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
95
#12
There's no way to know if the beta testers found wavedashing or not. Chances are they didn't, since they have never talked about it with the smash community.

And I was always under the impression that wavedashing was discovered by someone who wanted to save time in Kirby's BtT by airdodging into the ground…
 

AlphaZealot

Smashboards Owner
Administrator
GRimer
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Jul 6, 2003
Messages
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Bellevue, Washington
#13
Most of my knoledge base stems from the DC area, and the East Coast as a result. As far as I know, Muffin King was one of the first to implement Advanced Slob Picks at his BOMB tournament. But what really picked things up for the DC area was DCSS, created by M3D.

This brought alot of the dominant players, especially H2YL, in the early summer of 2003. Later, H2YL would hold what would turn out to be the first tournament on the East Coast, and I think the first tournament ever, to break 100 people. Game over, held in Janaury 2004, was thought by many on the East Coast to be the peek of Smash, as least for a time.

Team Ben emerged to around Game Over, then they began to really become known at BOMB2. After which they made plans to host their own tournament, Gettin Schooled. By the time getting schooled came around, much of the DC scene had calmed down, and while the turnout was still high, around 70 players, it did not recieve the type of out of region support that is common at todays large tournaments. Later, MLG DC came and brought the second over 100 person turnout, in Janaury 2005. Then, BOMB3 brought a mix of midwest and east coast smash with over 70 people. During the summer, Team Ben held there second tournament, and the largest ever for the East Coast, with over 120 people showing up, including West, midwest, southern, and a few international players IIRC. Just recently, BOMB4 happened, with the same blend of midwest and east coast smashers that had such a positive effect at BOMB3, and over 100 people showed up.

H2YL has remained the dominant force in the state/country. Team Ben has also emerged however, and is sharing part of the responsiblity in raising the area. My own crew PU, ran BOMB, and went and held fests. We currently still play, but with college apps and other commitments (alhtough everyone has them), things get in the way. I still remember times when I could beat Neo, way back before BOMB2. Or when I beat Husband and Wife at a tourney at UMD. I remember back when Aho was a complete n00b, and honestly, if we gave rookie of the year awards in Smash, he should get it, that man was total garbs in the summer of 2004. Now, hes sweet. I've seen alot of Smashers come and go, and alot of them mature and become very strong and talented players.

I remember back when Chu Dat was only known to local DC smashers. Then, 3rd at TG6 and hes on the national radar. He is still the only player in my opinion to really utilize the Ice Climbers right, everyone else is just an after thought of his work. Without him, IC's would easily be a tier lower.

I also remember the old list of the top players, at least partially.

Azen
Wes
DA Dave
Ken
Isai
Reciph

Now its pretty much in stone as:
Azen
Chu Dat
Ken
Isai
(in no order)

There are so many things I could mention. I had chillin document a few of them. Check out the MD/VA/DC Smash dicussion topic. It details the history of the DC area for Smash.

And I agree, I think the current ruleset is a mix of East and West Coast philosophies. For a long time East Coast was holding 5 stock no items tournaments. I remember TG5 being with items, and 4 stock. Then Matt Deezie finally broke the tradition and changed to no items and 4 stock for TG6. With MLG creating a somewhat standard ruleset for Smash, it took the no items, but it also rid 5 stock in favor of 4. So both coasts won.

After the MLG 2005 West Coast conferance finals of Ken & Isai versus Chu Dat & Azen, I'd say the coastal rivalry is alive and well, and really helps to make this community unique and fun.

Ugh, I'm stoping, this post had so little direction...mabye I'll add more later.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
555
Location
Chicago area
#14
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=907344#post907344

let the tiers speak for themselves :)

i lurked ever since a little after tg2, when the smash scene was still nascent and you couldn't say that a smashboarder was necessarily any better than your typical scrub. back then, we still talked tiers, but it was dominated by what was often referred to as f/f/s - fox falco sheik in the top tier. marth was upper tier and wasn't moving anywhere - until ken. ken singlehandedly brought marth to the top of the top tier and for a while all the gossip was about whether marth or sheik was the better character. peach, meanwhile, had edged her way up into top tier (mainly because of her 60% dsmash on fast-fallers), and for a while we had a five-person top tier - marth, sheik, fox, peach and falco. they slowly began to drop out :) first falco, then peach, and then fox until marth and sheik were the top tiers.

at this point the power of fox and falco's shines were just beginning to be noticed. people had been using them as single-shot attacks (particularly fox's shine), but nobody had developed shine techniques to the degree they are used nowadays! i think the real killer was a japanese video showing fox taking peach from 0% to death with repeated wave-drill-shines. suddenly, fox was in contention with marth and sheik for the best char in the game, thus reflected in the last two tier lists.

one of my favorite aspects of the players themselves was the era of the punch crew - when jarrod, mike, nick and aaron were household names and everybody devoured their videos, and a lot of peeps wondered whether the punch crew was really good enough to be competitive. fueling the fire even more, the first link to sirlin's playing to win article was posting, sweeping the entire smash community, and bringing a negative light to the punch crew's earlier rules about no "safe" edgeguarding (as in standing over the edge and fsmashing, as opposed to jumping off and spiking). but mike (or was it jarrod, or both?) tied with snex at snexus2, giving them at least some legitimacy in competitive smash while retaining their fun-loving image.
 
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
829
Location
Illinois, Chicago Area
#15
I hope more of the old school smashers stop by and tell their chapter of history because with so many people moving on there is a real danger of losing some pretty interesting stories forever. The history of SSBM is really like nothing no other organized fighting scene. Unlike arcade games like SF or Tekken which had arcades as natural meeting grounds, players actively sought each other out in one another's home. I remember driving across two states with Eddie so we could sleep on a sofa in Minnesota, just to play in a tournament. I remember when people first saw the video of the IC glitch where they could freeze an opponent in place indefinately and there was widescale panic that it would completely crush tournaments (never mind how ridiculiously difficult the trick is on even a dummy). Good stuff.

On a sidenote, someone should really talk about the happenings of Snexus 2. That has to be one of the strangest tournaments of all time. Oh well back to my term papers.
 

K10

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
180
Location
Hawaii
#16
On the gamefaqs SSBM forum/message board, it said that wavedashing was meant to be in the game and they found out by looking in the memory or something. I didn't really believe it but now that you say how it was discovered, I am positive it's not true.
 

BRoomer
GRimer
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Jul 30, 2004
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Woodstock, GA
NNID
LessThanPi
#17
It's stories like these that really make me wish I was in the smash scene earlier, this muct be how historians feel... I guess...

But alas... I was basically issolated from the world, up in CT. I played "high level" basically through cracking the game with my friend. L-canceling, short hopping, we found it all. probablly because we were such great rivals...
It funny though you know because our way of think almost mirrors what was going on in the bigger picture. Shiek was deemed great right off the bat, followed by link and fox. Later we ralized that when you played marth like you do gannondorf he's very dangerous... and that link was much too slow and laggy to be very dangerous, but you know to this day both of us won't play marth because he's cheap. Heh, back then for us, captian falcon was to crazy to be taimed, and peach was just too hard to master. Its just strange how our world mirrored the bigger one.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
#18
There was an incredibly old post, one of the first I have read that went REALLY indepth about the history of smash. It talked a lot about the rising of the smash greats, mainly Ken, Isai, and Azen. Perhaps someone could look back in the depths of Spring 2004 and find this lost treasure.

As for me, I missed the boat on most of the smash history. My first tourny was MLG Atlanta followed by the original Gettin School'd. My friend that drove said we had to pick up some "guy" in Atlanta, so I went to check and to my surprise it was freakin MIKE G!!! It was fun to witness the greatness of a 3 way tie for first in which NEO took second and ended up making MORE money than the 1st prize peepz. That **** was sick, they all feared NEO.

Don't underestimate MOAST3 either. At it's time it was the largest tournament with players all over the world. After Isai's stunningly beautiful CF crazyness it seems that LOTS more people picked up and started maining the Captain. Hell, I started playing him a bit after that **** XD.
 

AlphaZealot

Smashboards Owner
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Messages
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#19
A History of MD/VA/DC Smash
By: Chillin (Not Me, aka AlphaZealot)

H2YL: The Beginning

Ha Ha You Lose, AKA H2YL, was originally just the team name for Azen/Anden that Anden came up with at our original tourney in August 02. It expanded to become our crew name. I thought at that time that I was awful since I assumed Azen's skill level was average (lol), and back then Azen and Derrick/Eric always had close matches. I guess you could say Derrick and Eric were sort of like the modern day Ken and Isai, at least locally.

Azen and Anden had known each other since they were little (they lived on the same Air Force base). Mild met Azen in 7th grade, and I met Azen through Mild in late 2000, I believe. Azen met Jtanic online and Jtanic's friend lived within walking distance of Azen, so he went to play him (Jtanic had the typical best-within-group mentality: he thought he was the best in the world; Azen helped him "reshape his mentality", to put it nicely ). The rest of H2YL met JTanic through Azen. We all met Chu Dat at that JTanic tourney in December 02, and he gradually became a member of H2YL. It's also interesting to note that Ricky had seen Chu Dat at a small tourney held by a coffee shop or something (I forget exactly where, ask one of them) somewhere in the Fall of 2002, and we later met Ricky and Matt in 2003. Crazy coincidence.

H2YL remained this way until early 2004 when Chu Dat left. Soon after, NEO joined. However, Anden moved in the summer of 2004, and JTanic became busy with his job; NEO also left late in 2004 to join Team Ben. Now H2YL consists of only Anden, Jtanic, Azen, Mild, and myself, and of those only I am an active smasher anymore.

H2YL Characters

-Chillin: I played Sheik from when the game first came out up until Jtanic's first tourney, prior to which I changed to Fox. Recently I have been using Sheik more and more, but Fox has been my main since then.
-Mild: From the release of the game up until Jtanic's tourney, his character choices were sporadic. He finally settled on Falco for a while, which is what he used at his first tourney (Jtanic's Dec. 02 tourney). Sometime in 2003 he switched to Sheik and has stayed with her since.
-Anden: Anden was originally a Marth player but became more a Jiggs player as the first tournament approached, and that's who has always been his main; he has, however, been very diverse in his character choices.
-Jtanic: SAMUS 4 LYFE. Also Link sometimes, but mostly just Samus.
-Chu Dat: He has always been pretty diverse as well; he used Fox against Azen at Jtanic's Dec. 02 tourney. He started using Ice Climbers as his main in early 2003 and has stuck with them ever since.
-Azen: Master of diversity, what can I say? He used Link as kind of a main when the game first came out and used him all the way in the first two tourneys we attended (our first and Kengo's tourney). He used Falco for most of Jtanic's December 02 tourney. Since then he has been totally diverse.

MD/VA/DC Crews

DYCER
DYCER (at some points also called DYCEER and DYCE) consisted of, at its peak, Derrick, Yannick, Cirilo, Eric, Eugene, and Rob. DYCER was the first challenge that H2YL received, and for a time DYCER surpassed H2YL. At H2YL's first tourney, Eric used Yoshi of all characters and still managed to pull 3rd place, even taking Azen out of the winner's bracket. Yannick also attended that tournament. At Kengo's tourney that October, the DYC portion of DYCER was out in force as Derrick and Eric went 1-2 and Yannick finished top 10. Derrick's Sheik was very fast for its time and Eric had switched to (a very impressive) Peach. They followed up that performance by tying for 1st at Jtanic's tourney that December where Derrick and Eric stuck with Sheik and Peach, respectively. Eugene, another member of DYCER, impressed many with his Luigi, and Yannick kept pace with his Falco. All of DYCER that attended finished in the top 20. That was the peak of their smash career; at the next large tournament, DCSS1, although Cirilo finally showed, they had a less impressive performance, although still pretty good. Rob, to my memory, has still not showed up at a local tourney, although based on his crew I'm sure his Samus would have dazzled us. Still, DYCER had an impressive crew with well-balanced skill and an array of characters, and DYCER vs H2YL was the original crew rivalry. DYCER came back at Game Over and still had a decent showing despite rarely playing.

USB
USB consisted of, at one point or another, Chops, Cava, Vist, Rebel, Greg (whose screen name has slipped my mind), Kengo, and Cyrus. Chops has changed characters, Cava has always used Luigi, Vist has changed as well; Greg hasn't played in a while, but used Fox; Rebel hasn't played in a while, but used Fox; Kengo hasn't played in a while, but used Samus; and Cyrus (who I am not 100% sure was in USB, but he definitely associated with them) used Samus as well. USB had an impressive showing at Kengo's first tourney, with a few of them finishing in the top 10. At that point H2YL began a rivalry of sorts with USB, but it wasn't very fierce. The exception to this was Cyrus, whose arrogant style of posting incited arguments between H2YL and Cyrus. Unfortunately there was never a resolution to this rivlary as Cyrus quit in the time between Jtanic's tourney and DCSS. Now, Chops, Cava, and Vist are the only members of USB left, and still do a good job of representing their crew.

PU
PU originally was Muffin and Kiraki and AlphaZealot. Muffin came to a smashfest at Azen's house in 2003, and that was PU's first meeting with H2YL. Muffin had a very impressive Mario, and PU had a good showing at DCSS, as Kiraki even took out Anden with his quick Marth. Later that year, Muffin took tourney making into his own hands as he launched the Best Of Maryland's Best series, AKA BOMB. The first BOMB had a decent turnout and Kiraki and Muffin did well. AlphaZealot made his tournament debut at BOMB1, and although he didn't enter, he still turned some heads in exhibitions. All 3 members of PU still actively smash; since then, Chu Dat has also joined their crew.

Alcapwnz
Alcapwnz' main members are Mew2Matt and Ricky; CRZ, Matt's brother, also played, and some of their friends at Virginia Tech also smashed (Bobz and East Coast Eddie). Mew2Matt used Mewtwo, and Ricky used Link; two very difficult-to-use characters. They still managed to excel with them, however; when they first played H2YL in 2003, they impressed us with their skill. They followed up that with a good showing at Live or Die as Ricky placed 8th and Matt 11th. CRZ made his first tourney appearance at BOMB1 and did pretty well; Matt got 3rd and Ricky 7th. Since then, Matt has moved and Ricky has played less, but both are still good smashers.

Team Ben
Team Ben is NEO, Oro, Wife, and Husband who play Roy, Samus, Peach, and Marth respectively. They made their first tourney appearances at Live or Die, where NEO got 7th at his very first tourney and Oro got top 16. The Newlyweds, Husband and Wife, debuted at Game Over and did extremely well in teams. Since then Team Ben has fast become the dominant crew in the area. They are currently the crew to beat around here.


KM and Adwillia
I'm not sure whether these guys had a crew name, but they were definitely good. They both became good incredibly fast, keeping pace with Team Ben, and placed well in most tourneys they attended. Sadly Adwillia hasn't attended tourneys as much as KM, who is fast becoming the Fox to beat in the area.

Teams
Teams in this area from the beginning till Game Over was dominated by only one team: Azen and Anden, who basically decimated every team they faced. Since then there haven't been any solid teams with the same teammates, and the team crown of this area is currently up for grabs.

Old School Tourneys to New School
The very first tourney in this area (I think, at the very least it was our first tourney) was H2YL's first one (held at the same American Legion as GO). A modest 14 people attended, and the only ones of them that still play are DYCER. That was August 2002. Azen won that, with Anden 2nd and me and Eric tying for 3rd. There were no prizes, and items were on low, but it was double elimination.

After that, there was a tourney held by Kengo (I dunno if you guys remember him) in October '02, held in the hotel at which Kengo worked. About 30 people attended that and that was the first tourney where cash prizes were given out. Derrick won that with Eric in 2nd, Azen in 3rd, and Anden in 4th. I got somewhere near the bottom of the top 10. The tourney was single elimination and 1/1, though.

Then there was JTanic's tourney (the second H2YL tourney) held in December 2002 at Jtanic's house, the predecessor to LoD. That one was pretty big for its time as 40+ people were in attendance. A bad bracket system (thanks to yours truly ) ended up in a 3 way tie for 1st: Chu Dat, Derrick, and Eric. Azen pulled 4th and the rest of H2YL except Mild had respectable placings; Mild lost to me in the second round (again, single elimination and 1/1). That was JTanic's, Mild's, and Chu Dat's first tourney (although Chu Dat did attend another prior to that that wasn't very big).

After that, there was a six month period in which there were no big tourneys in the area. Unfortunately, this meant that most of the groups stopped playing as much. This was not the case with H2YL; we continued playing despite a lack of tourneys. Perhaps for this reason, we became considerably better as the other groups hardly progressed.

This was shown at the next big tournament, DCSS, held by M3D in July 2003. It was a chance for H2YL to show their improvement, and we did just that as H2YL swept the top 4 spots: Azen 1st, Chu 2nd, myself 3rd, and Mild 4th. Anden was upset by Kiraki (showing the advancement of PU), and ended up near the bottom of the top 10. At this point, H2YL took control of the rivalry between DYCER and H2YL, and unfortunately DYCER never returned to prominence.

Hoping to prevent another tournament slump, H2YL held its third tourney, Live or Die, less than two months later in August 2003. H2YL again proved its dominance as the 5 members of H2YL in attendance placed 1st (Azen), 2nd (Anden), 3rd (Mild), 4th (Jtanic), and 5th (Chillin). However, this tournament did show some new talent in the area: NEO made a strong showing at his first tourney, placing 7th, while Ricky & Matt pulled 8th and 11th, respectively, with the lesser-used characters Link and Mewtwo. Chops also proved that USB was not dead as he placed 6th.

In September, M3D and FLW brought back DCSS for a second time with DCSS2. This was the first tournament where out of area competition really had an impact as DA members Wes, Kamaal, and Jason placed top 10. DYCER also showed that they weren't out just yet as Derrick placed 7th and Cirilo and Eric managed top 17. Azen won the tournament, though, and all of H2YL in attendance made top 8.

One month later came the beginning of the BOMB tournament series held by PU. The turnout was a disappointment but the tournament still managed to be enjoyable. It was also an opportunity for the other members of H2YL to prove themselves as individuals as Azen wasn't in attendance. Mild took the top spot, and I placed 2nd. Matt and Ricky continued doing well, placing 3rd and 6th respectively, and Kiraki and Muffin got 4th and 5th. KM and Adwillia also made their debut.

The next area tournament was the biggest one to date: Game Over, held by H2YL in January 04. Ken and Isai finally came to a big east coast tournament and Ken managed to come from the loser's bracket to upset Azen in the finals. Isai managed 3rd, Dave 4th, and Wes and I tied for 5th. The top 10 was a mix of H2YL and DA members, an impressive showing by both crews. H2YL again showed their dominance as the lowest placing for any H2YL member was just out of the top 10 at 13th, impressive considering there were 6 members. This could be considered the peak of H2YL's performance as a whole crew. Also, sadly, it could be considered the peak of the MD/VA area smash community in terms of activity, since it has been downhill since.

There was another tournament slump for a while until BOMB2 broke it in April. Azen won again despite an exit from the winner's bracket early and I placed 2nd, with Chu Dat and Mild 3rd and 4th. Anden managed 7th despite being upset in the very first round by Wife. This showed the advancement of Team Ben; they were getting better and better as time went on.

BOMB2 was unfortunately followed by another long period of time without any big tournaments in the area. Chu Dat left H2YL, but NEO joined H2YL as his skill increased greatly. However, Anden moved away and JTanic got a job where he had to work for most of the time, so they became inactive. During this time, though, people from the area went out and did big things at other tourneys (Mild and NEO, 3rd and 5th respectively at Smash 4 Cash in New York; Azen and I, 1st and 4th respectively at MLG Atlanta; Azen and Chu Dat, 1st and 3rd respectively at TG6), but within the area nothing very big happened.

Then came DCSS3, which unfortunately did not have as many competitors as its predecessor. This showed the decline of the area as a community. Still, H2YL prevailed as Azen won yet again and I got 2nd; NEO got 3rd. Team Ben was still coming up, however, as Wife upset Mild.

Then Team Ben held their first large tournament with Gettin' Schooled in October '04. Azen, Chu Dat, and Mike G. tied for 1st with NEO in 4th. Only Azen, NEO and I attended from H2YL, as Mild had all but retired and Anden and JTanic no longer actively played. This tournament could be considered the death of the old age of smash in this area and the beginning of the new age, as Team Ben and newer crews begin to take over.

The only large tournament since GS in the area was MLG DC, where only one member of H2YL showed up (103 people total though): myself. I guess you can say that H2YL is done for; Team Ben has come to the forefront as the crew to beat in the area. As more tournaments approach, the new age of smash is upon us, and unfortunately most of us that have played competitively since the beginning wont be along for the ride.

The following are edits, the previous history, while good, is old and needs to be updated, which will be done soon.

Vist Edit: edit- UsB was originally just Chops, Cava, Rebel2000, and Greg. I joined them a while later. I dont believe Kengo and Cyrus were in UsB. Kengoshinakuma was part of 'The Three' along with adam (KidJester) and Kenny.

another tournament from back in the day was the Bob Tourney we had in ellicott city when a bunch of people had come. The results were 1) Azen 2) Anden 3) Rebel2000 4[tie]) Chu Dat/ Eric (marioandluigi) / Chops
 

noob-lube69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
400
#26
SmashBroPro said:
At one point and time someone was also trying to collect the history of the evolution of the game. I can help a little, but they say the first thing to go with age is memory. I would also like to apologize in advance if I screw up the name of a stage as I don't own a GC at the moment.

Wavedashing was "invented" by a Luigi player (whose name sadly escapes me) from California and yes its discovery was an accident. This of course makes sense since I'm sure people had done it before on accident (I've even seen the computer do it a handful of times), but with Luigi it is by far the most noticeable. I don't remember the exact story, but I think it involved trying to quick item catch (back then California was by far the most vehement pro item tournament scene) as doing the jump into the air/dodge/catch was a safer method than standing catching, but Luigi's regular jump left him open to nasty counters thus the need for the short jumping. Again it's a bit fuzzy, but the move did catch on amazingly fast with every player trying to add it to their repertoire. Ironically the move really didn't become absolutely necessary for top level competition for months down the line.

As far as an evolution of tactics before wavedashing it was pretty advanced since people largely carried over their skills from the original smashbrothers. Things like L canceling, short jumping, shield canceling, and fast falling were all critical in the previous game so the community hit the ground running at that point.

There were a few major changes though in game dynamics from the first game. First and foremost was grabbing was strongly reduced in effectiveness. Players saw that grabs, in particular running grabs, where a far less viable means of KO, the % damage it inflicted was fairly marginal, and particularly at low damages it didn't set opponents up as nicely into combos (a common example was how characters like Fox and Sheik's dash attack flowed so nicely into their aerial kill moves). So dash grabs saw a decent decline in usage, particularly in offensive minded players. The result favored defensive players. They could shield grab with increased safety. Ironically this didn't immediately lead players into countering with more dash grabs, but rather with an emphasis on spacing moves (like Marth's aerial forward A) and "cross ups" (a nearly forgotten move where you time your dash attack to carry over to your opponents other side of the shield). The tournament scene remained this way until Ken started really started abusing dash grabs, "circle dashing" (dashing back and forth to goad your opponent into making an attack and then dashing in for the grab, not to be confused with "dash dancing" as wavedashing hadn't become effective yet), and grab combos, but this didn't happen until TG3. Also, with the removal of devastating spike moves from SSB there was a much greater emphasis on edge guarding and edge hogging. I also think it is crucial to emphasis the effect the Japanese competitive tournament had on SSBM development in America. It was by all accounts well beyond the American scene and with videos of matching for the first time becoming available players were able to improve in large part from imitation.

For those who don't know, TG is "Tournament Go" and is a California tournament which was hosted by Matt D (I hope I didn't goof his name, especially since he put me up for the weekend at TG3). This was not the first SSBM tournament or the biggest for that matter, but it was the first to attract extensive outofstaters and players from overseas. TG 2 saw the first outofstaters, but TG 3 was when it really became the Markey tournament in the country with over thirty players coming from all parts of the world (Mr. Silver made the trip all the way from Europe). It also set up TG 4 which was the first tournament to actually attract a top notch Japanese player (Captain Jack).

A quick side note on the evolution of the tournament scene:
There were essentially two major tournament format feuds: East Coast (primarily New York) versus West Coast (primarily California). It was pretty vicious for a while there and they had pretty vehement disagreements on the proper format for running a tournament.

West Coast tournament primary settings:
Pro items: The drop running ran from Low to Medium High. Most of the items were kept. I think the only thing dropped at first major healing items (heart and tomato). The argument for keeping items was that they involved skill in using and catching, discouraged camping since the aggressive player would have access to more item drop spots, and that the random factor was very small, particularly if character kept a mental check list of the item drops in various stages and were careful with their move spamming (the example given was Dr. Mario abusing his pills in front of an item dropping point and crying randomness when a bomb drops in front of his pill). This argument was highly controversial.

Best of 3 matches with low stock: The number of stock varied, but it gravitated mainly between 3 and 4. The items were progressively cut back, until eventually going to a no item policy.

Pro Stage Variety: At first all stages where included with the stage being random for the first match and then the loser allowed to pick a "counter" stage. This too was gradually cut back with stages that lent themselves to running away like Hyrule and Mushroom Kingdom being cut out. This was likewise validated by the belief that unique stages represented an essential flavor of SSBM and that avoiding and using stage hazards was another aspect of skill. They eventually went to a "neutral" stage for the first match with it being random out of a field of 6-8 stages.

Character counterpicking: Loser was also allowed to choose a counter character with winner having to maintain his pick.

Time limit: This wasn't introduced until TG 3 and was highly controversial at the time. It was enacted to force action, but many feared it would lead to characters like Fox getting chip damage with their projectiles and running away for the rest of the timer.

Seeding: This was based on how players did in previous TGs and was also highly criticized since it gave advantage to local players who could in each TG without travel expense and did not factor in placing from other tournaments. It also made it slightly more likely that people would face members of their own crew in the opening rounds.

Duel Elimination
East Coast tournament settings:
No items: Items were completely thrown out as random factors and played into the East Coast's attempt to create an almost minimalist and "pure" experience. They pointed to how a character having a bat dropped infront of them or pulling a legendary from a pokeball was given a huge advantage with little skill of his own.

One match high stock: The big New York tournament played with 10 stock, which was highly controversial. It was argued that this not only illiminated randomness through fluke suicides, but that it forced opponents to adjust to their opponents strategy and improvise on the go.

One Stage: Final Desitination was the only stage available. It was picked because it was felt to best incorporate all the aspects of the game. It had edges, thus allowing edge guarding. It was about equally difficult to KO an opponent from above or the sides (as say with Yoshi Story where falco can shine combo you off the top of the stage with no damage).

One Character: The argument was that being able to counter pick an opponent shouldn't give you a free victory. This was also highly controversial.

Ultimately despite the superior numbers of the early New York Tournaments (they were the first to top 50) the common consensus among the disinterested community was that the West Coast format had come out on top. However, in retrospect it was really more of a draw with major aspects of both systems being incorporated. A lot of changes also came from other places in the country. "Dave's stupid rule" was put to use in the first major tournament in MOAST (a Texas tournament), which prevented counterpicking the same stage you got on random (though Chicago tournaments were the first to use it, even before it was named by Dave, but that so goes Hollywood). Ohio was the first to modify the counter picking, with the loser picking the stage, winner having the option to repick a character, and then the loser being able to repick his character. The rest of the country also turned off items and drastically cut back stages despite its maintained popularity in California.

Here is a fairly accurate of early tier lists:
1) Sheik. There was a point where a lot of people thought Sheik was unbalanced to the point of potentially ruining the game as she could be played effectively offensively or defensively. TG 2 was won by a (largely) turtling Sheik.
2) Fox. A bit of anxiety on just where he ranked. Once people adapted to the timing in interrupting his comeback there was a lot of anxiety that he was too easy a character to exploit. Matt D is credited as the first person to actively use Fox's reflector as a pseudo spike ("shine spike"). The original fox also relied a lot more on his aerial flip kick than the modern processors and it wasn't until a while down the road until the drill into shine combination was discovered. This lead to the idea that Fox was the perfect character in someone had the super human reflexes to fully utilize him.
3) Falco. Perhaps the most widely fluctuating character. It took a while for players to realize the potential of his spike as a ground attack. In some places like California, Minnesota, and Washington you saw Falco as one of the most popular characters, while in places like the Midwest he was much less prominent at first. Among doubters there was the beliefs that he just too punishable for the slightest mistake. Characters like Peach could do 80% damage combos and up and him.
4) Marth. Another character that was popular in some regions like the Midwest, but not really touched in places like the West Coast. Critics argued that his comeback was one of the worst in the game and that he was too reliant on his smash for kills, but players like Ken and Eduardo continued to win large tournaments. Marth was the character to really bring offensive grabbing back in vogue, particularly due to the almost unfair speed and distance he had as well as how nicely it set up further combos plus that his dash attacks are rather poor.
5) ----. There was no real agreement here and it varied wildly from month to month. At first Link was actually one of the most popular characters in very early tournaments, but he quickly disappeared as shield grabbing became less and less effective. Luigi and Mario were both popular characters at the early stages. Peach was fairly unpopular at the beginning, most likely due to her bizarre play style (which Peach enthusiasts like myself believe to be the most unique of any character and demand almost complete dedication to her) but steadily grew, most notably after winning a huge Washington tournament. Captain Falcon saw representation, but there was a fear that he was simply too wild to control effectively. By far the most dramatic example though was Yoshi who saw almost no tournament play in anywhere but Washington, but was hugely popular there with five very skilled Yoshi players traveling down for TG 3. Ness and Jigglypuff were moderately popular and even won a few tournaments (most notably MOAST 2). For a while Jigglypuff actually became one of the more popular tournament characters. Other characters were almost completely unknown until one player would revolutionize the old thoughts. A good example is Eddie's use of Gannon or Chu’s (I think) use of the Ice Climbers, though the Ice Climbers really didn't gain much steam a couple years later. Some characters like Samus were popular at first and then seen as not tournament viable only to be revisited once Isaiah reinvigorated her play style. While these characters never saw wide scale use, you did see the styles of these first players aped in friendlies. It should also be noted that while Bowzer was regarded as the worst character in the game, he also had the most dedicated fan base and while Bowzer didn't get much respect until a while down the road, it was the early devotees that made his redemption possible.

It's hard to say exactly when the game became as completely dedicated to speed as you see it today. I would have to say that Ken is probably the largest catalyst. His "dash dancing" dramatically speed up the pace of matches. Before matches were much more measured and planned out. The best counter to "dash dancing" is spamming short jumps. Players certainly knew how to do it, but with the exception of short hopping Falco's lasers it wasn't really put to full use. I would say that Eddie was the first to feature a repertoire of almost exclusively short jumping to L canceling. This was what was so revolutionary about how he played Ganon, he could make him fast. Whether or not due to Eddie's influence, you start to see players like Azen and Ken like wise start abusing quick short jumps with characters like Fox, Sheik, and Marth. However, it was probably Isaiah that showed that every character could benefit dramatically from incorporating quick short hopping with his surprising Samus, DK, and even Kirby. It really lead to the point in which a lot of characters are played dramatically similar. I remember hearing complaints/praise of Azen that said he could play almost every character at a very high level, but he pretty much played them the same. However wavedashing still wasn't an absolutely vital tournament tool. You would occasionally see "wave dashing", but outside of people who played Luigi and to a much lesser extent Samus and Marth, it wasn't used that often. Ironically perhaps the first person to demonstrate it as a possible tournament dominating form was Mike G’s Peach. To my knowledge he was the first player to consistently use wavedashing to such a dominating effect in tournaments. From that point on you start to see people playing remarkably similar to today’s player.

As I stated earlier my memory has some gaps. For example I have next to knowledge of the European scene and how it has interacted with the American tournament scene. I’m also not particularly well informed about East Coast tournaments. Maybe you can rope one of the EC old timers in. Anyways I hope that answers some of your questions.
BEST POST EVER
 

h1roshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,652
Location
Kissimmee, Florida playing melee! (f*** brawl, th
#27
man very good posts people. this makes me enjoy playing smash even more knowing how much the game has improved to get ourselsve to the level we are today. i also think a lot of credit should go to smashboards because it helped get across a lot of new techniques. heck i learned all my technicle stuff like wavedashing and l-canceling from this site.

-hiroshi
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
510
Location
NY, NE, CO
#28
Wow its great to know the history of the game, being that I started "comopetetive smash" like a year ago and found out about wavedashing and stuff like that through gamefaqs.
 

Xx swift xX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
164
Location
Las Vegas, NV
#29
Wow, this is incredible, so much information in one thread.

Now all I need is to find out more on Death By ****. I just started in this community, so I have no idea if they're just a modern day crew or if they go back a while. I just like their combo vids. :)
 

Riemann

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
54
Location
Troy, NY
#32
I did a search and came up with the following tier list from 2002:


4.9 Sheik
4.8 Falco, Fox
4.4 Marth
4.1 Mario
4.0 Zelda, Samus, Luigi
3.9 Peach
3.8 Dr. Mario
3.5 Ice Climbers, Ganondorf
3.4 Pikachu, Link
3.2 Captain Falcon, Young Link
3.1 Jigglypuff, Ness
2.9 Yoshi, Donkey Kong
2.8 Roy
2.1 Kirby
1.8 Mr. Game and Watch
1.6 Pichu, Bowser
1.3 Mewtwo
 

Scamp

Smash Master
GRimer
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
4,353
Location
Berkeley
#33
There are a number of inaccuracies throughout each history post but I'll only comment on the TG stuff.

All TGs were 3 stock until TG6, TG5 was not 4 stock.

Ken first appeared at TG4, not TG3.

And it should be noted that people travelled from out of state as early as TG2. That's some hardcore stuff!
 

Lorepath

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
16
#36
Any info on the UK scene? I saw Pimpugi's name mentioned, and it's because of him that I got to the level I'm at now. I've always been against reading faqs for how to play this game, and it was observing luigi's evil wavedash that I even realised what was happening those times I'd slide when landing on a ledge. I imagine if I were to read up on guides and what have you I could improve greatly, but I've much more enjoyed learning by play. Then again I don't have great reflexes, nothing like Pimpuigi's ability to do rising down b's with Luigi, or chun-li's lightning kick without doing even one intial kick.

It's funny thinking how I used to be a no shielding roy player way back before I played this game against a lot of people, and I know that in taking back my experiences I expanded our small dozen of players back when Smash Camp was running. Since then however Tone and Heyu have TAINTED their purity by looking up guides and watching videos. Nothing wrong with it, just not my style.
 

InterimOfZeal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
2,933
Location
Aurora, Colorado
#37
This wins the "Best Thread EVAR" award. However, I'd like to see some West, Midwest, and Southwest history. If anyone wants, I can contribute with most of Colorado's history, although I don't have very much history on Tan and Tahn.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
14
#38
L canceling was actually written about in Nintendo Power magazine shortly after Smash 64's release.
My friend used to always short hop in 64 with Kirby, but usually gave an extra jump or two for mindgame purposes... always just short of landing. God, but Kirby's fair and dair were powerful. Fast falling produced a lot greater effect on 64 as well. I miss that.
 

IAmAUser

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
48
#40
Edge hogging has probably been here since SSB, and anyway, it's a bonus in SSBM. Someone could have just looked at the bonus records.
 
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