Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)

[CRASHiC]

Yo Crashic I'm happy for you and imma let you finish but george bush was one of the best idiots of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Yo Logan I'm a let you finish but Mango was one of the best Trolls of all time. OF ALL TIME! I find it so funny that so many Jigglypuff posters post a like. You, Mango, Hungrybox.

The more important thing would be what to do after you got a successful CG on Snake and he's offstage. From what I hear, the DDD's know how to punish basically every single one of Snake's options, which makes the matchup horribly stupid (says Afro)

I remember Seibrik saying something about that. I don't know if it was fully explained out though.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Chip name searches...

EDIT: WAIT WAIT WAIT


Yo Chip, Imma letchu finish, but Jash is the greatest TL of all time!

 

[TlocCPU]

Crashic as I said I would earlier, I posted my full reasoning in the MK thread, go check it out. If ANY of you know something I don't, tell me. I'm openly ready to change my opinion if you can show me a way to beat the things I described.

 

[CRASHiC]

Thank you CPU. I'm in the middle of reading it. As I said before, I had no issue with you stating the ratio, I was just annoyed with the lack of reasoning. It seems like a lot of new information, so I doubt I could (or rather would feel comfortable and confident) in responding, though I may ask a few questions.
As for the Olimar, is it anything like this?

OLI:
One simple thing that throws this matchup into ddd's favor, though slightly, is inhale.
It beats 80% of oli's move set, including run up grab (lol) and sometimes pivot grab depending on ur placement and which pikmen it is. It's also a really good edgeguard solution to Oli's down B, throw off stage, turn and prepare to bair, if the oli jumps at all, than tries to time down b for ur bair, DDD can just reverse inhale instead (land on stage) walk off, (provided oli isn't mashing out fast) and spit semi-low (or higher depending on amount of pikmen) Oli (though ddd landed) does not get his jump back and depending on how low you got, most likely wont reach the edge with up-b even with full pikmen.
anything close range get's beat by grab, d-throw tech chase is easiest in the game, and he dies early.

Nair/utilt do a good job of breaking off multiple pikmen attatched to you in one to two hits, and as for an approach treat it like IC's. Bair approach (if they side b'd u alot nair some on the way or ignore) then once close dair shield/inhale ALOT (beats 80% of the **** oli can do at this point) and his roll is so bad he sometimes can't get away even if he were to predict it.

If not, it be nice to get your take on it, because then we would get 2 ways to fight Olimar, making the match more in our favor.

 

[Jupz]

Theres not much point to arguing any more guys, its not helping anyone and were not getting anywhere.

Thanks for posting your opinion CPU.

 

[TlocCPU]

Thank you CPU. I'm in the middle of reading it. As I said before, I had no issue with you stating the ratio, I was just annoyed with the lack of reasoning. It seems like a lot of new information, so I doubt I could (or rather would feel comfortable and confident) in responding, though I may ask a few questions.
As for the Olimar, is it anything like this?



If not, it be nice to get your take on it, because then we would get 2 ways to fight Olimar, making the match more in our favor.

No that's not it at all but I think that combined with what I say mixed in properly would make it 60:40 dedede O_o

 

[CRASHiC]

Wow, then I'm very interested. Any chance you could post it in the Olimar thread?
Most of us here hate playing the Olimar matchup.

 

[Jupz]

Yeah please do, I suck against Olimar.

 

[TlocCPU]

Hmmm maybe I will

 

[T3h Albino]

Lolwut the Luigi matchup.

I'm slightly inclined to believe in the MK v D3 matchup.


EDIT: SuSa only posted here because CPU posted here =3

Luigi matchup is 55:45 without infinte, possibly 60:40 because of the fact our bair beats all his recovery options. Once he gets in his jab, dthrow, utilt, and shoryuken mixups become too much. It's get him off the stage as fast you can and gimp him.
Dem West coasters b stickin together.

The DK mains you play must have never heard of "spacing" and "bair".

Seriously, I tried to gay M7H's DK by going D3, and if it weren't for CG > dtilt > edgeguard, and him making 3 mistakes. I would have lost the game.

That bair is ****ing impossible to grab.

I see this happen to a lot of d3's. OH DIS MATCHUP ES EASY ALL I GOTTA DOES IS CG N BAIR I R WIN. <___<

co18 vs seib isn't the highest level of play. The highest level is reserved for m2k,ally, and adhd
EDIT:I agree w/ serin

Well this is a first...

@CPU
So about Havok, he seems to know matchups far better then Tyrant and DSF. <_<

He plays the MK ditto smarter, he plays G&W smarter, he plays Snake WAY smarter, he apparently plays DDD better.

I don't understand... D=

@CRASHiC
Yeah, CPU is WC. He also has knocked me out of two recent tournaments. He knows what he's talking about, and he plays vs 3 top MK's aaaannnnddddd he beat Haze at a recent tournament. I'd consider him a pretty legit player, and IIRC. He used to be ranked in SoCal, and if he keeps up how he's been doing I can see him getting ranked again.

http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=6450

(PS CPU: We need to find 1-2 other people to get ranked so we have a 15 man PR... Theres you, Dao, myself... fox16 if he keeps it up... and who else? hahaha)

Fox16 is good now? I remember ****** that kid around on wifi all the time xD. Back in the good ol days.

Lol but this is why I've always avoided smashboards except to update the socal power rankings thread. There's too many stupid people on here who won't listen to anything because much like following the bible, they think their book is right and only their book without reading any of the others
And with that I'm done with this dedede board, if you guys ever want my help with anything, which obviously nobody does lol, you can catch me on AiB, i'm CPUSocal on there.
P.S. Sorry beef, I gave this place a try :/



Havok struggles with Falco and Wario

Don't let one persons ignorance ruin the boards for you.
There are just as many people like that on AIB.

Except they can be wrong.

I've seen that in a few instances and a few matchups among the top players.

I would take Havok or Dojo's advice in the MK/Snake matchup before anyone else. (If I played MK) although it probably would be argued that M2K or Tyrant/DSF are better choices.

It's not like CPU is some random nobody with no placings and no wins among the higher up players.

One person can be better at certain matchups than another person who is just overall a better player. I thought this was common knowledge....

There was a point why I mentioned Havok and Tyrant and DSF. Maybe I should have been more clear.

Who's to say Seibrik and Co18/Atomsk (I'm pulling a blank, to lazy to check the thread) know the matchup on an equal level?

Tyrant is #1 in SoCal's PR, Havok isn't [#1]. Yet they know different matchups. Havok beat UTD Zac, Tyrant lost. Are you saying I should trust Tyrant's knowledge and opinion of the matchup over Havok's simply because "he's the higher level of play"?

No, because that's some mad ignoratn **** lol.

TBH, there is not such thing as a TOP player. Everyone just happens to be better than one other person. You win some you lose some. Ken is/was a top player. Top means close to undefeated. IIRC, Taj beat Ken a few years back and that tipped the whole tiers thing out of hand.

CiP, nobody is really going to be a top player. One may be better than everyone for the time being, but still not a top player.

Hmm maybe you're smarter than I give you credit for.

*coughs*

UTD Zac is seen as the best G&W.
Tyrant is seen as one of the top MK's.

They've both proven themselves time and time again.

UTD won.

Havok is also a top MK.
He's proven himself time and time again.

He beat UTD that same day.


Just say'n. Maybe Seibrik isn't playing the matchup right. It's completely possible.

This
10this

Hmm oh DDD players.

You guys need to get along!

I'd love to meet a DDD who can beat me heh heh >=) j/kkkkkkkk

Man what in the ****.....
We'll mm when i see you ;3
Chip's cheery attitude is contagious

Theres not much point to arguing any more guys, its not helping anyone and were not getting anywhere.

Thanks for posting your opinion CPU.

What are you...me?


This was pretty pathetic to watch.
I saw CPU tear Crachics flawed logic out the frame
I saw Logan contribute nothing but insults, and analogies to the conversation.
I saw Serin do the same thing as Logan, but still contributing somewhat.
I saw Crashic make a complete fool of himself, and instead of listening and hearing out what another GOOD ddd was saying let his own ignorance blind him from the point.
I saw Susa make the exact points I would have made.

CPU keep post please, I'd love to hear more of what you think about certain matchups. Being that the West Coast and East Coast metagames are a lot different. Do you have aim?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Stupid*** ignorant people. You all know who you are.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Nice WoT.

Lol you thought I was stupid? Haha. I'm alot smarter than what people protray me to be on SWF. >_> Go figure.

EDIT: @Beefy - No u.

 

[TlocCPU]

Luigi matchup is 55:45 without infinte, possibly 60:40 because of the fact our bair beats all his recovery options. Once he gets in his jab, dthrow, utilt, and shoryuken mixups become too much. It's get him off the stage as fast you can and gimp him.
Dem West coasters b stickin together.


I see this happen to a lot of d3's. OH DIS MATCHUP ES EASY ALL I GOTTA DOES IS CG N BAIR I R WIN. <___<


Well this is a first...


Fox16 is good now? I remember ****** that kid around on wifi all the time xD. Back in the good ol days.


Don't let one persons ignorance ruin the boards for you.
There are just as many people like that on AIB.



One person can be better at certain matchups than another person who is just overall a better player. I thought this was common knowledge....


No, because that's some mad ignoratn **** lol.


Hmm maybe you're smarter than I give you credit for.


This
10this


Man what in the ****.....
We'll mm when i see you ;3
Chip's cheery attitude is contagious


What are you...me?


This was pretty pathetic to watch.
I saw CPU tear Crachics flawed logic out the frame
I saw Logan contribute nothing but insults, and analogies to the conversation.
I saw Serin do the same thing as Logan, but still contributing somewhat.
I saw Crashic make a complete fool of himself, and instead of listening and hearing out what another GOOD ddd was saying let his own ignorance blind him from the point.
I saw Susa make the exact points I would have made.

CPU keep post please, I'd love to hear more of what you think about certain matchups. Being that the West Coast and East Coast metagames are a lot different. Do you have aim?

My AIM is CPUSocald3 I keep it logged on 24/7
I'm down to talk smash any time, I love talking smash

 

[Commander_Beef]

Nice WoT.

Lol you thought I was stupid? Haha. I'm alot smarter than what people protray me to be on SWF. >_> Go figure.

EDIT: @Beefy - No u.

No I'm the opposite of ignorant. I'm only ignorant when a person needs to be. Not when a person wants.
(<---which is usually all the time for some people)

 

[LoganW]

I saw Logan contribute nothing but insults, and analogies to the conversation.

Hey, some of my analogies were good lol.
I didn't contribute much to the actual discussion becasue I don't play brawl. I just saw this thread on the home page and went to it and saw crashic being an ignorant debater and pointed out some of the things that he did....




and made anologies

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes, doubting someone's claim when no evidence was given, clearly bad logic.

 

[TlocCPU]

Yes, doubting someone's claim when no evidence was given, clearly bad logic.

Bad read but good DI

 

[LoganW]

Yes, doubting someone's claim when no evidence was given, clearly bad logic.

i just pointed out how you weren't listening to others and how you would hide behind quotes from top players and that's all.

 

[Zip.]

lol k

Metaknight 35:65
Snake 50:50
Wario 55:45
Falco 35:65
Diddy Kong 40:60

Marth 50:50
Mr G&W 45:55
Pikachu 35:65
Olimar 40:60
Ice Climbers 30:70
ROB 45:55
Kirby 45:55
Lucario 60:40
Zero Suit Samus 50:50
Toon Link 55:45
Pit 55:45
Donkey Kong 60:40
Peach 50:50
Luigi 55:45
Fox 50:50
Wolf 60:40
Sonic 60:40
Shiek 55:45
Bowser 65:35
Zelda 55:45
Pokemon Trainer 60:40
-Squirtle 40:60
-Ivysaur 60:40
-Charizard 60:40
Ike 70:30
Lucas 50:50
Mario 65:35
Ness 60:40
Yoshi 55:45
Samus 65:35
Jigglypuff 50:50
Captain Falcon 65:35
Link 70:30
Ganondorf 65:35

 

[TlocCPU]

lol k

Metaknight 35:65
Snake 50:50
Wario 55:45
Falco 35:65
Diddy Kong 40:60

Marth 50:50
Mr G&W 45:55
Pikachu 35:65
Olimar 40:60
Ice Climbers 30:70
ROB 45:55
Kirby 45:55
Lucario 60:40
Zero Suit Samus 50:50
Toon Link 55:45
Pit 55:45
Donkey Kong 60:40
Peach 50:50
Luigi 55:45
Fox 50:50
Wolf 60:40
Sonic 60:40
Shiek 55:45
Bowser 65:35
Zelda 55:45
Pokemon Trainer 60:40
-Squirtle 40:60
-Ivysaur 60:40
-Charizard 60:40
Ike 70:30
Lucas 50:50
Mario 65:35
Ness 60:40
Yoshi 55:45
Samus 65:35
Jigglypuff 50:50
Captain Falcon 65:35
Link 70:30
Ganondorf 65:35

I will help you **** ROB. That's one of d3's easiest matchups IMO

 

[Jupz]

Tell us your secret rob strat CPU :o

Lol but yeah I think the matchups in our favour.

 

[T3h Albino]

If you could share your strategy against ROB that would be wonderful.
He's actually one of my personal bad matchups.
ROB and Wario are 2 personal bad matchups that I have. =/

 

[CRASHiC]

Don't ROBs consider us one of (not THE, that would go to ZSS)their worst matchups now, or am I mixing him up with Marth?

 

[T3h Albino]

You're silly.
Robs worst matchups are Mk,Gnw, and Zss

 

[Zip.]

wtf ZSS?
really? lol

 

[CRASHiC]

wtf ZSS?
really? lol

Have you never seen the infinite? Its the silliest looking thing ever.

 

[napZzz]

isn't crashic just speaking for other DDD players trying to argue with one of the best ones? Thats kinda dumb. It'd be like me going to the snake boards and saying, well this is what ally thinks guise. lolol

 

[Zip.]

she has an infinite on rob now?
wow lol.

 

[CRASHiC]

isn't crashic just speaking for other DDD players trying to argue with one of the best ones? Thats kinda dumb. It'd be like me going to the snake boards and saying, well this is what ally thinks guise. lolol

In order for it to be an argument, something would have been presented for an argument. Simply saying "I just know" is not an argument, in this thread, no reasons were given to why the matchup was so bad, despite my constant inquiry into why. You can't simply state something like a 70:30 matchup and expect not to be questioned on it. He has provided information now.

she has an infinite on rob now?
wow lol.

Yeah, she's had it for some time, its the goofiest looking thing ever. I can't seem to find it right now. Its basically down smash down smash footstool down smash down smash footstool down smash down smash foot stool all day.

 

[Commander_Beef]

she has an infinite on rob now?
wow lol.

What DO you know Zip?

 

[TlocCPU]

Lol beef.
I guess I could post a strategy against ROB. I've only ever lost to one ROB in tournament/MM/Wifi Ladder the entire time I've played that game and it was HugS, but I'm 3-1 with him so it's like eh.
There's a lot of ways you can make it easier. I'll post something later, I'm lazy right now.

 

[Zip.]

what Do You Know Zip?

.......
=/

 

[Gates]

Lol but this is why I've always avoided smashboards except to update the socal power rankings thread. There's too many stupid people on here who won't listen to anything because much like following the bible, they think their book is right and only their book without reading any of the others

4chan is so much better for smash advice.

Wait, did I say 4chan? I meant AiB. I get those two confused sometimes because they're so similar ****ing exactly the same.



I really appreciate how you guys created this thread without my knowledge and somehow kept it going for a full 4 pages and over a week. I blame myself for not seeing this earlier. I guess this is what happens when you only read threads you subscribe to.

Frankly, I see this whole thread as a gigantic personal insult.

When I started the Dedede matchup thread over a year ago, we had absolutely nothing remotely close to it save some early impressions written by a scrub that have been lost to time and CO18's incomplete matchup data in his guide. Every other relevant character board had a guide then and it was laughable that King Dedede, 3rd on the tier list at the time, did not have one. I then began the project, not fully knowing what I was getting into, because I saw the need for the Dedede boards to catch up to every other board. I managed the matchup thread in an organized and timely fashion and tried as hard as I could to ensure that it was updated in a timely fashion and that each discussion stayed on-topic at all times. I could have easily abandoned my project and done something beneficial to my real life, but I did not. I went through and organized the thread, kept it bumped when it wasn't stickied, and in the early days I even went through and wrote a summary for each matchup after discussion of it was completed. I took into account both the opinions of Dedede mains and mains of the other characters when weighing ratios. I have labored harder through my thread than ANY of you EVER have on these boards. The scattered failures of Stage Discussion, Teams Discussion, and various other threads are proof. The only people who even come close to putting in the same effort I have for this board are Beef for the Q&A thread and Jupz with the tactical strategy thread which has surprisingly done really well. Aside from that, nobody has come close.

And now this.

I don't mind Serin, or Crashic, or anyone else just telling me I'm wrong on my ratios. I'm used to it and I've grown very thick skin. What does piss me off is when someone outright goes behind my back to create a thread with the sole purpose of completely undermining my efforts, which I spent nearly a year on btw, and then tells the rest of the Smash community "forget about Gates and all his hard work, this is the true Dedede matchup canon". I don't know why Serin was banned but I am glad that he is. This thread alone is a total slap in the face to all the effort that I have ever done. The matchup ratios in the matchup thread are based off opinions from the top players of each character and not my own opinions. Doing this biased bull**** and then attempting to pass it off without a second thought is unethical and ludicrous.

There are reasons why I only change my ratios based on data from the Dedede backroom members. This is one of them.

I despise this thread. I hope it falls into the depths of hell where no one will ever find it. Or rather, I wish to skewer it on a pike and hang it from atop these boards to make an example of it.

 

[CRASHiC]

Stepping out of my new annoying typing style for a second, Gates, I understand your concern, because your thread truly is the best matchup thread on Smashboards. The ammount of work it takes you just to move a character is ridiculous, and the amount of organization, versatility (as in having both the matchup thread AND the export charts), professionalism, and the accuracy of your matchups is far above all other boards. Finding as much information on other charecters is incredibly difficult, except for the load of **** that doesn't matter (as much). Sure, I can find the things that are not combos on the ZSS boads, but working through their matchup thread is a real pain. Your thread has spoiled us D3 mains, and I hope everyone of you realizes that. We have an accurate, easy to read, and deep matchup thread, that took a lot of work to put together, and takes a lot of work to maintain.

 

[Gates]

Stepping out of my new annoying typing style for a second, Gates, I understand your concern, because your thread truly is the best matchup thread on Smashboards. The ammount of work it takes you just to move a character is ridiculous, and the amount of organization, versatility (as in having both the matchup thread AND the export charts), professionalism, and the accuracy of your matchups is far above all other boards. Finding as much information on other charecters is incredibly difficult, except for the load of **** that doesn't matter (as much). Sure, I can find the things that are not combos on the ZSS boads, but working through their matchup thread is a real pain. Your thread has spoiled us D3 mains, and I hope everyone of you realizes that. We have an accurate, easy to read, and deep matchup thread, that took a lot of work to put together, and takes a lot of work to maintain.

I really appreciate you riding my sausage and all but if you don't have anything to contribute to the thread, let it die.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I really appreciate you riding my sausage and all but if you don't have anything to contribute to the thread, let it die.

I know how you feel Gates and I've been riding on the sausage for a while now too. And I'm not just saying this because it's the appropriate time, I'm saying it for the more obvious reason. You will be remembered in the King Dedede boards for all of Brawl's competitive scenery, and God bless all of those who actually read the thread, including me. May the foundation thread for these boards live on. It will not be forgotten either. After this post, there should be only concluding ones, or Kawaii should close it now.

 

[Gates]

Serin and I had a talk and I've calmed down now. We've basically agreed to ask Bunny to merge this with the old matchup thread (after unlocking it) and continue the discussion there.

So Bunny is pretty much the best mod ever. She has a 100:0 matchup against everyone and she can wavedash and l-cancel in Brawl.

So here are my thoughts on matchups:

Metaknight - 40:60
Snake - 55:45
Wario - 50:50
Falco - 30:70
Diddy - 40:60
Dedede - Stupid

Marth - 55:45
Mr. Game & Watch - 50:50
Pikachu - 35:65
Olimar - 35:65
Ice Climbers - 30:70
ROB - 55:45
Kirby - 50:50

Lucario - 55:45
Zero Suit Samus - No clue
Toon Link - 60:40
Pit - 55:45
Donkey Kong (Infinite) - 90:10
Donkey Kong (No Infinite) - 60:40

Peach - 50:50
Luigi (Infinite) - 70:30
Luigi (No Infinite) - 60:40
Fox - 50:50
Wolf - 65:35
Sonic - Doesn't matter, he shouldn't be in the game
Sheik - 50:50

Bowser (Walking Chaingrab) - 90:10
Bowser (Without Walking Chaingrab) - 70:30
Zelda - 50:50
Squirtle - 50:50
Ivysaur - 70:30
Charizard - 60:40
Ike - 65:35

Lucas - 60:40
Mario (Infinite) - 90:10
Mario (No Infinite) - 65:35
Ness - 60:40
Yoshi - 60:40
Samus (Infinite) - 90:10
Samus (No Infinite) - 90:10

Jigglypuff - 60:40
Captain Falcon - 70:30
Link - 90:10
Ganondorf - 80:20

 

[momochuu]

Uhm...this should be correct. Let me know if something's wrong.

 

[T3h Albino]

4chan is so much better for smash advice.

Wait, did I say 4chan? I meant AiB. I get those two confused sometimes because they're so similar ****ing exactly the same.



I really appreciate how you guys created this thread without my knowledge and somehow kept it going for a full 4 pages and over a week. I blame myself for not seeing this earlier. I guess this is what happens when you only read threads you subscribe to.

Frankly, I see this whole thread as a gigantic personal insult.

When I started the Dedede matchup thread over a year ago, we had absolutely nothing remotely close to it save some early impressions written by a scrub that have been lost to time and CO18's incomplete matchup data in his guide. Every other relevant character board had a guide then and it was laughable that King Dedede, 3rd on the tier list at the time, did not have one. I then began the project, not fully knowing what I was getting into, because I saw the need for the Dedede boards to catch up to every other board. I managed the matchup thread in an organized and timely fashion and tried as hard as I could to ensure that it was updated in a timely fashion and that each discussion stayed on-topic at all times. I could have easily abandoned my project and done something beneficial to my real life, but I did not. I went through and organized the thread, kept it bumped when it wasn't stickied, and in the early days I even went through and wrote a summary for each matchup after discussion of it was completed. I took into account both the opinions of Dedede mains and mains of the other characters when weighing ratios. I have labored harder through my thread than ANY of you EVER have on these boards. The scattered failures of Stage Discussion, Teams Discussion, and various other threads are proof. The only people who even come close to putting in the same effort I have for this board are Beef for the Q&A thread and Jupz with the tactical strategy thread which has surprisingly done really well. Aside from that, nobody has come close.

And now this.

I don't mind Serin, or Crashic, or anyone else just telling me I'm wrong on my ratios. I'm used to it and I've grown very thick skin. What does piss me off is when someone outright goes behind my back to create a thread with the sole purpose of completely undermining my efforts, which I spent nearly a year on btw, and then tells the rest of the Smash community "forget about Gates and all his hard work, this is the true Dedede matchup canon". I don't know why Serin was banned but I am glad that he is. This thread alone is a total slap in the face to all the effort that I have ever done. The matchup ratios in the matchup thread are based off opinions from the top players of each character and not my own opinions. Doing this biased bull**** and then attempting to pass it off without a second thought is unethical and ludicrous.

There are reasons why I only change my ratios based on data from the Dedede backroom members. This is one of them.

I despise this thread. I hope it falls into the depths of hell where no one will ever find it. Or rather, I wish to skewer it on a pike and hang it from atop these boards to make an example of it.

Man this thread must be a kick in the nuts to you huh?
Atleast everything is cleared up now. I hate drama, especially on my favorite character boards.
LETS DISCUSS LUIGI GAIS !

 

[CRASHiC]

Luigi (without infinite) is about even, assuming he's wearing dark green. Any other color is a fake and thus should be viewed as 60-40.