Enemies of the Crown: King Dedede Matchup Thread (SERIN IS IN CHARGE NOW NOT GATES)

[CRASHiC]

Now you're just trying to come down to whose opinion is more valid though. Me and Co18 see it in different ways. Much in the same way of how he lost to Chip and Fiction at genesis. Fiction never beats my dedede and I think the toon link matchup is easy while Co18 can't do it at all. There's no point in debating on which dedede is right, we're both good players and we both see a lot of things differently. I think when he moves here next summer and gets a taste of Havok DSF and Tyrant, he will see things the same way I do.

Co18 didn't know the Toon Link matchup. Florida has no Toon Links and I don't believe he had fought a great Toon Link at WHOBO.
Despite losing to Fiction, Co18's opinion on the matchup has changed since, thinking its now 60-40 in our favor since he learned how to play the matchup.
Its not about how you do versus the character, its about how both players playing the matchup is. Its not just, "oh, lol, I lose to this guy, it must be bad" When Co18 lost to a Toon Link he didn't go, Guys, this matchup is so bad now, its like 70:30." No, instead he said the intelligent thing, guys, I don't know how to play the Toon Link matchup"

 

[o-Serin-o]

I love how we spammed my thread... >_>

TAKE THIS **** SOMEWHERE ELSE

 

[CRASHiC]

yes take the topic of ratios to a thread that doesn't involve matchup ratios.

 

[TlocCPU]

I love how we spammed my thread... >_>

TAKE THIS **** SOMEWHERE ELSE

Don't worry Serin I'm not gonna reply to him anymore. Found him on AiB, no tournament results and no experience.

yes take the topic of ratios to a thread that doesn't involve matchup ratios.

Lol that was pretty good though.

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes, and seibrik who has far more experience than you doesn't know the matchup. His idea of this matchup and how he says to stop campy Metaknight is totally wrong.

 

[TlocCPU]

Yes, and seibrik who has far more experience than you doesn't know the matchup. His idea of this matchup and how he says to stop campy Metaknight is totally wrong.

Cool story bro when can I get that in paperback?

 

[LoganW]

not letting him respond was the wrong choice of words. You are throwing away what others say and basically our responses to you are useless. This cpu guy plays some of the best mk's in the country and is a better player than you. Listen to others for a change.
EDIT: lol CPU

 

[CRASHiC]

Cool story bro when can I get that in paperback?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8317216&postcount=342
Right here.

not letting him respond was the wrong choice of words. You are throwing away what others say and basically our responses to you are useless. This cpu guy plays some of the best mk's in the country and is a better player than you. Listen to others for a change.

Its not like I'm saying You wrong lol, I'm stating high level DDDs that have said other things on the matchup.

 

[TlocCPU]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8317216&postcount=342
Right here.

Lol but that's useless since Tyrant and Havok don't play the matchup that way at all. Seibrik should write a guide to beat Havok since every dedede to ever play him has lost.

EDIT: Even your hero Atomsk

 

[o-Serin-o]

IIRC, Seibrik didn't go to Genesis. Also, IIRC, Seibrik hasn't really played alot of SoCal players...

CiP, both of your are sorta wrong. Playing Gears 2 bbl.

 

[LoganW]

no no no CPU you're saying it all wrong.
His hero is seibrik and he follows his advice like people follow the bible.

 

[SuSa]

@CPU
So about Havok, he seems to know matchups far better then Tyrant and DSF. <_<

He plays the MK ditto smarter, he plays G&W smarter, he plays Snake WAY smarter, he apparently plays DDD better.

I don't understand... D=

@CRASHiC
Yeah, CPU is WC. He also has knocked me out of two recent tournaments. He knows what he's talking about, and he plays vs 3 top MK's aaaannnnddddd he beat Haze at a recent tournament. I'd consider him a pretty legit player, and IIRC. He used to be ranked in SoCal, and if he keeps up how he's been doing I can see him getting ranked again.

http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=6450

(PS CPU: We need to find 1-2 other people to get ranked so we have a 15 man PR... Theres you, Dao, myself... fox16 if he keeps it up... and who else? hahaha)

 

[TlocCPU]

no no no CPU you're saying it all wrong.
His hero is seibrik and he follows his advice like people follow the bible.

Lol but this is why I've always avoided smashboards except to update the socal power rankings thread. There's too many stupid people on here who won't listen to anything because much like following the bible, they think their book is right and only their book without reading any of the others
And with that I'm done with this dedede board, if you guys ever want my help with anything, which obviously nobody does lol, you can catch me on AiB, i'm CPUSocal on there.
P.S. Sorry beef, I gave this place a try :/

@CPU
So about Havok, he seems to know matchups far better then Tyrant and DSF. <_<

He plays the MK ditto smarter, he plays G&W smarter, he plays Snake WAY smarter, he apparently plays DDD better.

I don't understand... D=

@CRASHiC
Yeah, CPU is WC. He also has knocked me out of two recent tournaments. He knows what he's talking about, and he plays vs 3 top MK's aaaannnnddddd he beat Haze at a recent tournament. I'd consider him a pretty legit player, and IIRC. He used to be ranked in SoCal, and if he keeps up how he's been doing I can see him getting ranked again.

http://allisbrawl.com/event.aspx?id=6450

(PS CPU: We need to find 1-2 other people to get ranked so we have a 15 man PR... Theres you, Dao, myself... fox16 if he keeps it up... and who else? hahaha)

Havok struggles with Falco and Wario

 

[CRASHiC]

Lol but that's useless since Tyrant and Havok don't play the matchup that way at all. Seibrik should write a guide to beat Havok since every dedede to ever play him has lost.

EDIT: Even your hero Atomsk

Then please post in the Matchup Export and see if another top D3 knows how to deal with what ever Havok is throwing out, cause I can't find a DDD vs Havok video.

Lol but this is why I've always avoided smashboards except to update the socal power rankings thread. There's too many stupid people on here who won't listen to anything because much like following the bible, they think their book is right and only their book without reading any of the others
And with that I'm done with this dedede board, if you guys ever want my help with anything, which obviously nobody does lol, you can catch me on AiB, i'm CPUSocal on there.
P.S. Sorry beef, I gave this place a try :/

Yes because you've helped this board out so much.

Your olimar review:
I got something good, but I ain't tellin lol
Metaknight review:
This matchup sucks just cause lol

 

[LoganW]

CPU you shouldn't leave because one person is being stupid. THat's like Obama quitting because some people don't agree w/ him.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Logan makes good analogies.

 

[CRASHiC]

no no no CPU you're saying it all wrong.
His hero is seibrik and he follows his advice like people follow the bible.

Would you as Jigglypuff main in Melee or Falco not take the advice of Mango?
Would you as a Wario main not take the advice of Fiction?
Would you as a Falco main not take the advice of DHF?
Would you as an Ice Climbers main not take the advice of Lain?

 

[o-Serin-o]

I wouldn't.

Because people are different and no one person is ever the same...

 

[SuSa]

Except they can be wrong.

I've seen that in a few instances and a few matchups among the top players.

I would take Havok or Dojo's advice in the MK/Snake matchup before anyone else. (If I played MK) although it probably would be argued that M2K or Tyrant/DSF are better choices.

It's not like CPU is some random nobody with no placings and no wins among the higher up players.

 

[LoganW]

Logan makes good analogies.

I wouldn't.

Because people are different and no one person is ever the same...

Serin I love you
EDIT: You too susa and code geass is great

 

[CRASHiC]

I wouldn't.

Because people are different and no one person is ever the same...

That makes the assumption that there is not a top level of play, also known as Tiers R 4 Queers.

 

[LoganW]

god dammit crashic you are soooo wrong

 

[SuSa]

There was a point why I mentioned Havok and Tyrant and DSF. Maybe I should have been more clear.

Who's to say Seibrik and Co18/Atomsk (I'm pulling a blank, to lazy to check the thread) know the matchup on an equal level?

Tyrant is #1 in SoCal's PR, Havok isn't [#1]. Yet they know different matchups. Havok beat UTD Zac, Tyrant lost. Are you saying I should trust Tyrant's knowledge and opinion of the matchup over Havok's simply because "he's the higher level of play"?

 

[CRASHiC]

god dammit crashic you are soooo wrong

O Rly?
Well then ****, why we even discussion matchup ratios. I wasn't aware that the reason Co18 lost to a Toon Link was just he's Co18.
There is a top level of play. There are right and wrong ways to play matchups. The only way this might change is if different variations of a character exist, example, campy Metaknights versus Rushdown Metaknights, which require different approaches, but there is still a right and wrong way to play each of those matchups. Deny this and you are a scrub.

Are you saying I should trust Tyrant's knowledge and opinion of the matchup over Havok's simply because "he's the higher level of play"?

No, however Seibrik has proven his Metaknight, Co18 has proven his D3. Both play each other very frequently, both being considered two of the best at their respected characters. Seibrik is fully aware of the options that the Metaknight has, as well as the options available to the Metaknight. Until he is proven other wise, I'll trust his view on the matchup.

 

[o-Serin-o]

TBH, there is not such thing as a TOP player. Everyone just happens to be better than one other person. You win some you lose some. Ken is/was a top player. Top means close to undefeated. IIRC, Taj beat Ken a few years back and that tipped the whole tiers thing out of hand.

CiP, nobody is really going to be a top player. One may be better than everyone for the time being, but still not a top player.

 

[LoganW]

Ken doesn't play anymore serin =_=. The reason co18 lost is cause he lost to chip who is the best toon link he placed higher with a lower tiered character than co18. You continue to run and hide behind the most talented players while everyone here disagrees with you.

 

[SuSa]

O Rly?
Well then ****, why we even discussion matchup ratios. I wasn't aware that the reason Co18 lost to a Toon Link was just he's Co18.
There is a top level of play. There are right and wrong ways to play matchups. The only way this might change is if different variations of a character exist, example, campy Metaknights versus Rushdown Metaknights, which require different approaches, but there is still a right and wrong way to play each of those matchups. Deny this and you are a scrub.



No, however Seibrik has proven his Metaknight, Co18 has proven his D3. Both play each other very frequently, both being considered two of the best at their respected characters. Seibrik is fully aware of the options that the Metaknight has, as well as the options available to the Metaknight. Until he is proven other wise, I'll trust his view on the matchup.

*coughs*

UTD Zac is seen as the best G&W.
Tyrant is seen as one of the top MK's.

They've both proven themselves time and time again.

UTD won.

Havok is also a top MK.
He's proven himself time and time again.

He beat UTD that same day.


Just say'n. Maybe Seibrik isn't playing the matchup right. It's completely possible.

 

[CRASHiC]

CiP, nobody is really going to be a top player. One may be better than everyone for the time being, but still not a top player.

What are you, Einstein? "Top is only relative"
Regardless of that, that is to admit that a top does exist, and my point on a right and wrong way to play each matchup does exist, though that is not to say that ways to play the matchup have not yet been discovered. A person can not simply excuse his loss by the fact that, I just play different" because if he lost, he must have been playing different, and he was playing wrong.

Ken doesn't play anymore serin =_=. The reason co18 lost is cause he lost to chip who is the best toon link he placed higher with a lower tiered character than co18. You continue to run and hide behind the most talented players while everyone here disagrees with you.

Lol, that's not true. There is no way Chips the better player. So cause FOW beats Mew2King once he's better than Mew2King?
And who are you to disagree Logan, you don't even play Brawl.

UTD Zac is seen as the best G&W.
Tyrant is seen as one of the top MK's.

They've both proven themselves time and time again.

UTD won.

Havok is also a top MK.
He's proben himself time and time again.

He beat UTD.

Than Havok plays the matchup right and Tyrant plays the matchup wrong, or something happened during that match with his playing that was wrong.

 

[LoganW]

even your god can wrong crashic. This has been the fundamental hole in your arguments. You haven't considered for a split second that you may be wrong.
Deathnote example as it has to do w/ the hw I'm doing and this argument: Light thinks he has everyone cornered at the final showdown in the warehouse but near has beat his plan and stole the deathnote causing light to use and the reign of kira to end. light's one weakness was over confidence.
I'll answer to your statement in a sec.

 

[SuSa]

You ignore my key point:
"Just say'n. Maybe Seibrik isn't playing the matchup right. It's completely possible."

Also just because you play the matchup a lot, doesn't necessarily you get better because of it.

 

[CRASHiC]

You ignore my key point:
"Just say'n. Maybe Seibrik isn't playing the matchup right. It's completely possible."

And then what for the Metaknights he fights? Until Seibrik is proven wrong, I fail to see this matchup as what CPU posted, especially since no reasons were given other than, "I just. . . know okay." Which seems to be his approach for every match up description, as his description for the Oli matchup was "lol I know something "

 

[TlocCPU]

You ignore my key point:
"Just say'n. Maybe Seibrik isn't playing the matchup right. It's completely possible."

Also just because you play the matchup a lot, doesn't necessarily you get better because of it.

I love how you COMPLETELY tore his logic in half in your last few points but he's ignoring those specific parts of your posts and replying to the rest XD

And then what for the Metaknights he fights? Until Seibrik is proven wrong, I fail to see this matchup as what CPU posted, especially since no reasons were given other than, "I just. . . know okay." Which seems to be his approach for every match up description, as his description for the Oli matchup was "lol I know something "

You're the exact reason I'm not revealing what I know about olimar. You're just gonna be like "LOL IM GLAD YOU FOUND A WAY TO **** OLIMAR BETTER THAN SEIBRIKS WAY AND IMMA LET YOU FINISH BUT CO18 IS THE BEST DEDEDE OF ALL TIME. OF ALL TIME, therefore it's 65:35 olimar and you are wrong mr CPU."

 

[CRASHiC]

I love how you COMPLETELY tore his logic in half in your last few points but he's ignoring those specific parts of your posts and replying to the rest XD

Then prove Seibrik wrong. I want you to right now. Prove the current matchup number wrong. List reasons on to why Metaknight shuts us down so bad. You can't just say, Go fight havok lol, because that's not evidence of the matchup. I want a matchup description talking about how the matchup is so heavily against our favor.

You're the exact reason I'm not revealing what I know about olimar. You're just gonna be like "LOL IM GLAD YOU FOUND A WAY TO **** OLIMAR BETTER THAN SEIBRIKS WAY AND IMMA LET YOU FINISH BUT CO18 IS THE BEST DEDEDE OF ALL TIME. OF ALL TIME, therefore it's 65:35 olimar and you are wrong mr CPU."

No, my problem is not with you making claims, but with making these claims with no support. It has nothing to do with what level player you are. I was supporting Serin's contributions before anyone even thought he was good, or had express such thoughts on the board. He went into detail and explained what he was claiming. You have not.

 

[SuSa]

I was hanging with CPU and Oki while they were discussing the Oli matchup.

I'm pretty sure he told Oki something about the matchup, and Oki went from thinking the matchup is stupid to actually seeing why it could be even or in DDD's favor.

Also he plays against Tyrant, DSF, and Havok. (Unsure about how often, but I'm sure it's happened. After all, we are in SoCal) so it's not like he has no MK experience.

 

[CRASHiC]

I was hanging with CPU and Oki while they were discussing the Oli matchup.

I'm pretty sure he told Oki something about the matchup, and Oki went from thinking the matchup is stupid to actually seeing why it could be even or in DDD's favor.

Also he plays against Tyrant, DSF, and Havok. (Unsure about how often, but I'm sure it's happened. After all, we are in SoCal) so it's not like he has no MK experience.

Then he should list these reasons and explanations in full. It is in no way appropriate to keep information either hidden from fellow D3 players or too argue a point without fulling stating your claim. If I did such in the Debate hall, I would be kicked out right away.

 

[SuSa]

Then I really wish FL DDD's would post the DDD/Snake matchup for all to see.

I don't think I've seen it yet.

 

[CRASHiC]

Then I really wish FL DDD's would post the DDD/Snake matchup for all to see.

I don't think I've seen it yet.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8306491&postcount=337

Yeah, Florida snakes don't like to post on Smashboards for some reason, but I don't see them coming on saying, This ***** is about even, kay thanks bye

 

[LoganW]

Yo Crashic I'm happy for you and imma let you finish but george bush was one of the best idiots of all time. OF ALL TIME!

 

[SuSa]

So that post wasn't overly helpful at all, and really should've been known by most.

DDD's know their standing grab has more range then dash grab, and that Snake's grenade grab only outranges the dash grab. (Hell, we have this info on the Snake boards)

The more important thing would be what to do after you got a successful CG on Snake and he's offstage. From what I hear, the DDD's know how to punish basically every single one of Snake's options, which makes the matchup horribly stupid (says Afro)

 

[Chip.]

Hmm oh DDD players.

You guys need to get along!

I'd love to meet a DDD who can beat me heh heh >=) j/kkkkkkkk