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Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

Foxy the Silver Fox

Foxy the Silver Fox

Anomandaris_Rake|Ranmaru
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
255
Yeah we'll figure it out. We'll take care of ScumSwords first tho.

Kantrip, what DO you think of the claim bro?
 
Kantrip

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
JTB will get attention, doesn't have to be toDay.

I want Ryker to answer my questions before we take out Sword, as that could change things. I do still think Sword is the best option, though. I'm less comfortable with Gheb than I was previously.
 
Kantrip

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
So the half of the hydra who boasts about a near perfect record of reading me has left it to his other head?

Laaaaaaaazy. Oh well, it's cool.
 
Foxy the Silver Fox

Foxy the Silver Fox

Anomandaris_Rake|Ranmaru
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
255
Foxy the Silver Fox said:
Anyways, here is what I think. I think Swords hasn't really been trying hard enough to find scum. All I can recall from him is his analysis of who fits best as scum with PJB.

I still think he's scum. So we should lynch him. Regardless of role, he still has alot of scumminess along with him. He should not be spared even with his role. He must be smitten.

I don't see why AM is really convinced by Sword's role.
Click to expand...

Also quoting this because new page and I feel the last page was a distraction.
 
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,033
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I finally have a day off tomorrow.

I'm almost 100% caught up.

I will have a full read list up hopefully tonight, by tomorrow afternoon at the absolute latest. Lynch my ***** ass if I don't follow through because I've been a piece of inactive **** this game.

If there is anything in particular any of you want me to comment on, please let me know asap so when I get back online later tonight to finish reading and post your post will be there for me to read and whatnot.

See you folks again very soon. I finally have some time to ****ing play this game.
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1,390
Location
Orlando, Fl
frozenflame751 said:
I apologize for my extended absence. Came down with a really bad head cold over the weekend and forgot to declare V/LA. All caught up now.

My opinion of PJB is best reflected by this:



I think it's pretty clear that the case against PJB initially gained a lot more "teeth" as S&C put it after seeing the way he reacted to it. Regardless of where you stand on the whole debate of what a true townie ought to do wrt to balancing self preservation and scum hunting, I think it's pretty tough to actually argue that PJB comes of as townie based on his reactions.

But therein lies the problem. He struggled under pressure but it's tough to tell if that's because he's scum or just doesn't react to pressure well.

It seems incredibly canned. Kind of like how a lawyer responds when defending his client if you know what I mean. What he says assumes his personal perspective and holds that perspective to be an objective standard, which it obviously isn't. The thing with that type of response though is it really only tells me that his objective is to show everyone how "confident" he is that he's a good guy, without any actual substantive support. I know I'm probably doing an awful job articulating what I mean here (yay head cold ruining by stream of consciousness) but here, take a look at this:

This is what I'm talking about wrt to that whole "prove I'm innocent via confidence I'm innocent". Another thing I find kind of strange is how he jumps from being distanced and self protected (i.e. the "I'm sad that I'm wrongfully accused" defense) in 125, and then in this quote he jumps to being combative (i.e. the "I'm mad that I'm wrongfully accused" defense). Again though, this could be a result of either being bad at faking the whole "wrongfully accused" act, or just him actually feeling a range of different emotions because he doesn't know how to handle being wrongfully accused logically.

I'm going to have to give this a re-read to get some more clarity here, but yeah, at the end of the day I don't like PJB's defense at all.

Closing up at work now so I'll try to expand on this later tonight.
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Okay this is FF's second post in the game. The first post was him simply asking Gheb a single question about rather or not he believed something fully, nothing telling.

There are a couple problems I find with this post.

-His stance on PJB is wishy washy.
-His wording reads as detached. This one is bit hard to explain, but like, you guys remember S&C,right? Yeah, you guys know that guy. The one who flipped town? Even after PJB flipped mafia, I was still town reading him partially because he really seemed in to it, if you know what I mean. As town he actually was really dedicated to what he believed in, as evidenced by the constant dialogue he had. Now I know FF is inactive but I just don't get the sense from reading this post that he actually believes what he's saying. He comes off like he's just trying to sound logical but not actually catch scum, if that makes sense. This point is really hard to explain so ask if you don't get me.
-He concludes that he needs to read into PJB but as of then doesn't like him, but no vote. This is a more minor point, because of he could have simply not wanted to put PJB at a high vote count, or perhaps one could argue if you're not totally sure then you shouldn't vote. Still don't like the noncommtiment.
-He never actually follows up. This point gets me the most. Instead of following up on reading into PJB, he makes this post next:

frozenflame751 said:
Seriously **** this week... I need a goddamn day off...

Before I go back to working my life away for the rest of the day, here's where I'm at right now.

Lynching PJB is by no means a bad option. A lot of people are advocating for that lynch because of the info we get out of it (namely, connections based on PJBs provided reads and a better idea of where the scum lay in the pro vs. against PJB lynch divide. With so many vocal players in this game having been involved in the PJB wagon or atleast having commented on it, its hard to argue against the notion that the PJB wagon is a stance heavy (and thus info heavy) wagon.

However I think Gheb brings up and extreme important point: there are a ton of slots in this game that have been completely off the radar and are basically getting a free pass through day 1 completely unpressured and unscrutinized (myself included in that group).

Almost half the game is barely playing, Badwolf being the most extreme example. I think our prospects for securing a replacement and getting some extra time here are rather high, but idk what Gova likes to do wrt replacements and extensions. I'd certainly advocate for both of those right now though.

Rushing to lynch badwolf just because he's the most inactive is ********. Anyone pushing to do that looks sketchy imo for looking for that lame excuse for a wagon to take off. If we're going to think that little about what our lynch ought to be, we might as well just finish off PJB because as previously stated, we get a lot more info out of that lynch than some completely inactive slot. Wayyyyy smarter to use our lynch effectively here on D1; let the vigbait be vigbait.

There's no sense in being overly myopic this day phase. We've only really had one viable wagon the whole phase, so jumping from that to saying "well lets just pick an inactive and settle for that" is just trading one single issue of focus to another unrelated and equally narrow lynch criteria.

We def need to get an idea of what kind of timetable we have though. @Mod: Can you let us know what the prospects are of getting a replacement for Badwolf and/or getting a phase extension?
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Instead of following up on PJB, like he said he would, he makes an armchair critic post. These types of post really bug me. They basically scream to me that the poster is merely trying to seem helpful. If FF actually wanted to help, then he would help. If his intention was to actually catch scum, then, like Adumb, he would actually try to have a genuine dialogue with someone, or quote something specific, not just comment on the general affair of things from the sidelines. He's more concerned with keeping up appearance than scumhunting.

Like, I'm just not convinced in one's good intentions when they're simply listing off the pros and cons of a lynch without really giving their own feelings about it.

frozenflame751 said:
@ Swords: Why would I have voted for PJB at that point? I was discussing how despite the fact that he was a good informational lynch option, that we shouldn't be overly myopic and should consider other avenues. I was pushing for a deadline extension and more discussion pertaining to other players in the game while PJB was at either L-1 or L-2 IIRC. Why in the world would I push him closer to L-1 or outright lynch him when I was clearly stating that though lynching PJB did come with benefits independant of his then unknown alignment, we should also scrutinize other players that were getting a free pass through the day. You make it sound like me not voting for PJB was incongruent with my stance on him but it just straight up isn't. Quite the opposite is true actually.

@ RR: You say you tracked someone who allegedly doesn't even have a targeting power. Given that, one of you has to be lying about what happened last night or you're putting us through an exceptionally ****ty gambit. If it's the latter please do us a favor and cut the act. There's no sense mucking up the thread with bull**** like that when we already have a great flip to work with moving forward.
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FF's last post. Not terribly scummy, as the wording at least reads genuine to me here. However, the bolded is still a problem. Stuff like simply stating that "we have a lot to work with" and never taking it any farther than that reads as disingenuous to me.
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
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Messages
1,390
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Orlando, Fl
Like I'm going to be lynched anyways so don't you at least want my input? If I flip scum then you can ignore what I say. If I flip town then you can take into consideration what I said.

People have been pushing me left and right for content, which is justified. Gheb wants me to go into FF, which I was going to do anyways. When I announced that I was going to actually go into detail on a scum read, you went into prick mode. Like ****ing sheesh.
 
Kantrip

Kantrip

Kantplay
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B.C. Canada
I wasn't expecting there to be much on a slot that's been doing nothing, and I was right. I'm sorry I offended you that much though, I really was being condescending for the sake of it and it wasn't necessary.

It's just I feel like taking your time to compile at FF "case" was hugely unnecessary, even if Gheb asked for it. Ah well. Anything on your reads list change since you posted it?
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Okay, about JTB:

I really wouldn't mind at all if you guys decide to lynch him over FF. They're both pretty scummy in my eyes. The points against JTB hold up from my perspective. He joined on the PJB wagon, but never commented on PJB (despite the fact that PJB was a hugely talked about person at the time) and left after PJB's claim without ever voting anyone else. Furthermore, several instances he would "scumhunt," but it never went anywhere. It's JTB, so I admit that I do give him a bit of a break on this, but without meta it deffo reads scum trying to simply looking for "scummy things" to point out in order to "scum hunt."
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Potassium said:
I wasn't expecting there to be much on a slot that's been doing nothing, and I was right. I'm sorry I offended you that much though, I really was being condescending for the sake of it and it wasn't necessary.

It's just I feel like taking your time to compile at FF "case" was hugely unnecessary, even if Gheb asked for it. Ah well. Anything on your reads list change since you posted it?
Click to expand...
I wasn't lying in my interview when I called myself an emotional guy. It did hurt my feelings to just see you trash me without me even giving my two cents, but I forgive you.

I'm less suspicious of Gheb, because of a certain post he made which I find weird from a scum Gheb perspective paired with PJB. Let me pull it up.
 
Kantrip

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Well hey now, I wasn't trashing. I was making a sarcastic jab at the idea of there being a case on FF, but it wasn't meant to be a personal attack.

Anyways, what are your thoughts on Handorin's slot?
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Gheb_01 said:
Vote Badwolf

I don't care what you guys think. You all keep making the same mistakes anyway. You'll lynch PJB and if he flips town you'll shrug off responsibility or pretend that you have gained some amazing new info that you haven't but you'll tell yourself that you have - to make you feel better about not actually having a ****ing clue. It's sad that this kind of misguided behavior is a towntell for most of the active slots [Ryu and Kantrip in particular] and the other active slots either read pro-town to me or at least not scum. You guys can do what you think is best for yourself, I'll continue to do what I think is best for town. Some of you have yet to understand that difference.

:059:
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This post. This doesn't read like a post one would make of his mate if his mate was about to be lynched. I guess as scum Gheb could have tried something really WIFOMie to defend PJB and distance themselves (by doing something scum wouldn't want to do, defending a mate, which we in turn would say "Why would scum Gheb defend PJB?"), but occum razor says no. More likely scum Gheb would have just bussed PJB, and not make some big post connecting him to his partner so.
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
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Messages
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Potassium said:
Well hey now, I wasn't trashing. I was making a sarcastic jab at the idea of there being a case on FF, but it wasn't meant to be a personal attack.

Anyways, what are your thoughts on Handorin's slot?
Click to expand...
Not as bad as JTB's or FF slot. Minimum content isn't really telling for him. Stayed on PJB most of yesturDay which I guess is good? This might sound super weird but I actually draw slight positive intention from the fact had three people as scum very early on. I don't really know how scum Hando plays but that just reads dumb town over scum.
 
#HBC | Dancer

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Still not fantastic though. I would put him like #2 on the top 5 to lynch.

1. FF/JTB
2. FF/JTB
3. Hando
4. DH
5. Gheb
 
Aggressive Mediation

Aggressive Mediation

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,013
GG, failed series. Alex is bad at focus.

I'm going to bed and will be here tomorrow. I won't be caught dead on a Sworddancer lynch. Do NOT push that through until I get here.
 
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