Elements and Attributes Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What's your read on me?

Was town but I'm asking to verifiy.

rewyu wants an answer.

 

[Kantrip]

Foxy is based more on gut and reaction that they just gave you, plus the fact I disbelieve your claim.

AM is based on yesterDay. Could have been bussing on PJB but when all the other power players were trying so hard to steer away from PJB and AM kept the pressure up, seemed townie. Ryker was active and did the whole huge stream of posts thing, I saw a clear thought process, and I felt so bro with AM yesterDay. Not letting them fly to endgame but totally cool with em atm

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Here, What up ?

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Kantrip, why are you so certain it's a gambit over results being messed with ?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Actually, you know what?



@Kantrip, BW: Can I get your take on this?

Basically gheb scum makes sense to me because of the reasoning by..... Someone. On a phone and it takes forever to find posts. However I agree completely that gheb had done an entire 180 on PJB and that's why I found him scummy. If he chooses to actually explain why he did so I'd feel better but right now I'm really wary of him.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Dislike the majority of this post. He talks a lot about using WIFOM and the risks associated or something like that, and proceeds to base this entire post on WIFOM. Probably going to reread and see if Swords makes more sense than Gheb.

Well, my 755 wasn't actually complete WIFOM. It's true that I use it to defend myself, but I think my defense is still good. Foxy thinks I'm scum because I defended PJB. Pointing out the flaws in this thought process might amount to a WIFOM defense but the flaws are legit nevertheless.

Also again, my post wasn't completely WIFOM. If you read the top of it, you'll see that I go over why I was defending and town reading PJB. That's not WIFOM, but rather me just explaining why I did what I did.

Two more things I dislike about Sword:

1. He put his vote on FF. Pressuring an easy slot to pressure to see if it sticks. This isn't too bad, except for it goes with point 2.

2. Buys into the Gheb scum theory. Not only does he not grasp the full reasoning for why Gheb is suspicious, but Gheb defended PJB much like Swords did. Why is Swords allowed to use his crappy WIFOM defense and yet is perfectly justified voting Gheb? Hypocrisy at its finest.

I dislike that he's voting FF if he thinks Gheb is scummy for legit reasoning.

@sword: You got something on FF or...?

1. It just so happens that an easy inactive seems the most likely to be PJB's partner based on my observations. Read my 750 for more details.

2. I do see connections between PJB and Gheb, but I'm not as sold on Gheb as you are. If you read my 750, you'll see that I DO say that Gheb defending PJB is "tricky to call," because I DO think that Gheb defending his mate would have been a weird move for him. Even that though I can see flaws with, because of the details of how exactly Gheb defended PJB. The difference between me and Gheb is that Gheb was more indirect with his defense on PJB.

Gheb_01 - Weird interactions with PJB all around. Attacked PJB way too hard way too early. PJB defended himself in not a particularly unusual way. They attacked each other
for awhile, when ultimatly PJB didn't read Gheb as scum, just "Gheb being Gheb." Gheb later goes on to defend PJB. This is a really tricky to call. Why would Gheb
defend PJB? However, he didn't really do it directly, instead opting out to attack inactives, which Kantrip pointed out was unusual for him. Was vague about why
PJB was town. Late into the Day he went into stubborn "I ain't going to explain ****" mode. Interacted with plenty of people which is good. Overall likelihood of Gheb
being PJB's partner: 6/10.

If you were to just say that I was being hypocritical though because I was defending myself from one action while attacking Gheb for the same, you'll simply be wrong.

What I have on FF: FF made a scummy post, announced that PJB would be the best lynch without voting him, and PoE.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

PoE ?

Extrapolate por favor

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Basically gheb scum makes sense to me because of the reasoning by..... Someone. On a phone and it takes forever to find posts. However I agree completely that gheb had done an entire 180 on PJB and that's why I found him scummy. If he chooses to actually explain why he did so I'd feel better but right now I'm really wary of him.

@BW and Kantrip: I was actually looking for your thoughts on Foxy's 760. What do you think about the point he brings up?

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Swords, in your notes JTB is a lot better laid out than FF.

What pushes FF that extra one tenth ?

Cuz from mypov you have more reason to vote JTB then FF right now

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I want everyone to post on this.

To post on what exactly? Foxy claiming and/or your "guilty" on him?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Swords, in your notes JTB is a lot better laid out than FF.

What pushes FF that extra one tenth ?

Cuz from mypov you have more reason to vote JTB then FF right now

Well it's pretty easy to "better lay out" someone when they actually have more content. At the very least, JTB's has said something, and I liked his post against FF.

Don't get too caught up in that extra one tenth though. I wouldn't have any qualms with getting rid of either toDay. From my PoV the last scum this game is already in a pretty narrow pool of people (FF/JTB/Gheb/possibly Handorin hold all the remaining scum imo).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kantrip, tell me which scenario is more likely:

a.) I am PJB's scummate. I immediately pushed his lynch from the very beginning, provided a good 50% of the reasoning that got him lynched eventually and did not budge, even when he was put at L-1 at one point. Then, for some reason, I decided that it actually makes much more sense to deflect suspicion onto inactive players all of a sudden and started being completely upfront about not lynching PJB anymore in order to defend him in the most amateurish fashion imagineable.

b.) I am town. I immediately was rubbed the wrong way by PJB's play and decided to give the already somewhat existing wagon some teeth by providing a good 50% of the reasoning that got him lynched eventually. But the fact that almost everybody joined the wagon asap and - other than AM - nobody provided any decent reasoning rubbed me the wrong way even more. I am not a player who is very confident in his reads and is easily convinced by decent points and I have a tendency to become very mistrusting on things that everybody seems to agree on. That was enough for me to change my mind for good.

 

[Gova]

1. Handorin ()
2. BadWolf28738 ()
3. Aggressive Mediation ()
4. Dark Horse ()
5. Gheb_01 (K)
6. JTB ()
7. frozenflame751 (SWord)
8. Potassium ()
9. Sworddancer. ()
10. Red Ruy ()
12. Foxy the Silver Fox(RR, JTB, AM)

Not voting: Handorin, BW, AM, DH, Gheb, FF, Foxy

With 11 playing it takes 6 lynch!

Deadline is Monday, June 10th at 11:59 CST (GMT-6).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The difference between me and Gheb is that Gheb was more indirect with his defense on PJB.

That's completely untrue. Like, wtf are you on, man? I've been so vocal against lynching PJB like the whole 2nd half of yesterDay and have made it AMPLE clear - so much that a whole bunch of people are toying with the idea that I might be his scum partner now. There was nothing subtle or indirect about how I defended PJB at all. You, on the other hand, had some notable instances where you defend PJB very indirectly and while you also were vocal about it at certain points you also have posts like #150 [page 4 with 40ppp] and#180 [page 5] plain and utterly reek of chainsaw defense. You only directly mentioned PJB when it became clear that your attacks against Kantrip and me weren't going to do anything [even though it still seems like you've kept the option open somewhat].

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Kantrip and Dark Horse are the players least likely to be scum with PJB. I'd say the highest odds of being in a team with PJB are between Frozen, JTB and Legolas - the three people that failed to vote anybody at the end of Day 1.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Man One Piece is awful.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

To post on what exactly? Foxy claiming and/or your "guilty" on him?

His reaction and the situation, you've avoid it entirely.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Basically gheb scum makes sense to me because of the reasoning by..... Someone. On a phone and it takes forever to find posts. However I agree completely that gheb had done an entire 180 on PJB and that's why I found him scummy. If he chooses to actually explain why he did so I'd feel better but right now I'm really wary of him.

Opinion on Swords?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

@BW and Kantrip: I was actually looking for your thoughts on Foxy's 760. What do you think about the point he brings up?

Well I think there would be no reason for him to shoot your case down RIGHT THEN AND THERE. I mean isn't it weird he treated him, his attacker, that way? I'm sure he wouldn't connect himself to his own buddy that way. Unless you think otherwise.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but he's talking about the relationship between PJB and Gheb? I mean, it was weird at the beginning, because of Joker's interactions, but then it became weird because Gheb jumped off the bandwagon without as much as a reason why. I don't like the idea that he just doesn't trust anyone else's ideas and jumped off of the wagon because of that. It doesn't strike me as.... townie I guess :/. It's kinda hard to explain but I don't like that he doesn't trust anyone else and was defending Joker in the way that he did.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Work time. Will be back on later. Direct questions at me until then.

 

[Handorin]

Sorry. I've been at work a lot the past couple days. I'm on break now, so I've skimmed. I believe that report on foxy cause I still think he's scum. Ummmmm. If you want to ask me questions I might entertain to answer, feel free and ill get to it by tomorrow hopefully.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sorry. I've been at work a lot the past couple days. I'm on break now, so I've skimmed. I believe that report on foxy cause I still think he's scum. Ummmmm. If you want to ask me questions I might entertain to answer, feel free and ill get to it by tomorrow hopefully.

Why is he scum outside the report?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

DH where you at?

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, why are you so certain it's a gambit over results being messed with ?

Because it's Ruy

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't like the idea that he just doesn't trust anyone else's ideas and jumped off of the wagon because of that. It doesn't strike me as.... townie I guess :/.

What do you not like about it? What makes it look like a not-townie thing to do?

 

[Kantrip]

Kantrip, tell me which scenario is more likely:

a.) I am PJB's scummate. I immediately pushed his lynch from the very beginning, provided a good 50% of the reasoning that got him lynched eventually and did not budge, even when he was put at L-1 at one point. Then, for some reason, I decided that it actually makes much more sense to deflect suspicion onto inactive players all of a sudden and started being completely upfront about not lynching PJB anymore in order to defend him in the most amateurish fashion imagineable.

b.) I am town. I immediately was rubbed the wrong way by PJB's play and decided to give the already somewhat existing wagon some teeth by providing a good 50% of the reasoning that got him lynched eventually. But the fact that almost everybody joined the wagon asap and - other than AM - nobody provided any decent reasoning rubbed me the wrong way even more. I am not a player who is very confident in his reads and is easily convinced by decent points and I have a tendency to become very mistrusting on things that everybody seems to agree on. That was enough for me to change my mind for good.

I can see both points of view. For the sake of not tunneling, I am going to reread it once I stop being sick.

I'll be looking at a pool of Gheb/Sworddancer/less active players toDay.

 

[Kantrip]

Hando's scumread on me and Foxy doesn't make sense to me. I'd really like for those to be fleshed out more

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Ryu, what has my reaction given you ?

 

[Kantrip]

That's completely untrue. Like, wtf are you on, man? I've been so vocal against lynching PJB like the whole 2nd half of yesterDay and have made it AMPLE clear - so much that a whole bunch of people are toying with the idea that I might be his scum partner now. There was nothing subtle or indirect about how I defended PJB at all. You, on the other hand, had some notable instances where you defend PJB very indirectly and while you also were vocal about it at certain points you also have posts like #150 [page 4 with 40ppp] and#180 [page 5] plain and utterly reek of chainsaw defense. You only directly mentioned PJB when it became clear that your attacks against Kantrip and me weren't going to do anything [even though it still seems like you've kept the option open somewhat].

This is true, at least.

S&C and Gheb were very vocal about not lynching PJB, Swords was the least direct of his

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ Swords: Why would I have voted for PJB at that point? I was discussing how despite the fact that he was a good informational lynch option, that we shouldn't be overly myopic and should consider other avenues. I was pushing for a deadline extension and more discussion pertaining to other players in the game while PJB was at either L-1 or L-2 IIRC. Why in the world would I push him closer to L-1 or outright lynch him when I was clearly stating that though lynching PJB did come with benefits independant of his then unknown alignment, we should also scrutinize other players that were getting a free pass through the day. You make it sound like me not voting for PJB was incongruent with my stance on him but it just straight up isn't. Quite the opposite is true actually.

@ RR: You say you tracked someone who allegedly doesn't even have a targeting power. Given that, one of you has to be lying about what happened last night or you're putting us through an exceptionally ****ty gambit. If it's the latter please do us a favor and cut the act. There's no sense mucking up the thread with bull**** like that when we already have a great flip to work with moving forward.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

K, it was.

Foxy is town. Kantrip likely town.

I hate JTB and Swords more.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Ryu:

Ryu, what has my reaction given you ?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You are town

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

What do you not like about it? What makes it look like a not-townie thing to do?

I guess it's the whole Trust no one thing. It's not really a good idea in a game based around support and trust in other's arguments to be the hipster of the group IMO. It doesn't really show good team building. I just view it as something to be looked at.

 

[Foxy the Silver Fox]

Kantrip, why did you choose to not do the Ryu thing you always do ?

Ryu, how did you / do you take this ?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

That's completely untrue. Like, wtf are you on, man? I've been so vocal against lynching PJB like the whole 2nd half of yesterDay and have made it AMPLE clear - so much that a whole bunch of people are toying with the idea that I might be his scum partner now. There was nothing subtle or indirect about how I defended PJB at all. You, on the other hand, had some notable instances where you defend PJB very indirectly and while you also were vocal about it at certain points you also have posts like #150 [page 4 with 40ppp] and#180 [page 5] plain and utterly reek of chainsaw defense. You only directly mentioned PJB when it became clear that your attacks against Kantrip and me weren't going to do anything [even though it still seems like you've kept the option open somewhat].

I went back to check and it seems that I am indeed on something. Posts 371, 372, 387, 401, 402, 403,444, 446, 451, 619, 667 are all posts where you defend PJB, so I guess I was just getting caught up in the fact that you were attacking inactives. I'll drop this point.

Gheb I never thought you would be caught dead accusing someone of the "chainsaw defense." Go into detail as to why those posts come off as chainsaws and not me just pursuing my own reads.

"You only directly mentioned PJB when it became clear that your attacks against Kantrip and me weren't going to do anything"

There's nothing within that 30 post span (posts 150 through 180) that would indicate "my attacks" weren't going to work.

"[even though it still seems like you've kept the option open somewhat]."

Tbh I was afraid of this going into the Night. There were times yesturDay were I DID attack PJB because of something he did that I found scummy. However you guys have to understand that that was me just being open with my thought process wrt him.

If you think I was trying to keep the option, then read the end of yesturDay again. I clearly make the choice to lynch not lynch PJB, instead thinking about going onto FF.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

His reaction and the situation, you've avoid it entirely.

K, it was.

Foxy is town. Kantrip likely town.

I hate JTB and Swords more.

His reaction was appropriate.

I avoided commenting on it because I thought you were gambiting and I didn't want to butt in. For what's the point of a gambit if it's pointed out?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@ Swords: Why would I have voted for PJB at that point? I was discussing how despite the fact that he was a good informational lynch option, that we shouldn't be overly myopic and should consider other avenues. I was pushing for a deadline extension and more discussion pertaining to other players in the game while PJB was at either L-1 or L-2 IIRC. Why in the world would I push him closer to L-1 or outright lynch him when I was clearly stating that though lynching PJB did come with benefits independant of his then unknown alignment, we should also scrutinize other players that were getting a free pass through the day. You make it sound like me not voting for PJB was incongruent with my stance on him but it just straight up isn't. Quite the opposite is true actually.

@ RR: You say you tracked someone who allegedly doesn't even have a targeting power. Given that, one of you has to be lying about what happened last night or you're putting us through an exceptionally ****ty gambit. If it's the latter please do us a favor and cut the act. There's no sense mucking up the thread with bull**** like that when we already have a great flip to work with moving forward.

When you said " myopic" I thought you were referring to Gheb attacking inactives (as in, "Gheb don't be nearsighted by attacking inactives").

Nevertheless I remain completely unconvinced in your intent to scumhunt. I understand that you're a busy individual, but you've still made two out of your three posts so far (one of them being this post) you've failed to give anything the reads as genuine input. Yes you can tell us to "consider other directions," but you never tell us WHAT other direction to consider. You can say "There's no sense mucking up the thread with bull**** like that when we already have a great flip to work with moving forward" but you haven't told what YOU make of the flip. Instead it really does read to me like you're trying to seem helpful rather than actually be helpful.

Your best post so far has been your 300, where you talk about PJB's scumminess. Even there though you're wishy washy as ****, and you've never followed up on it, instead choosing to "help us" by telling us we shouldn't focus solely on PJB/

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

things to do:

-Read Kantrip/RR for Foxy, although tbph I'll just say right now that I'm most likely to come up town on them both.
-Detailed ISO of PJB and everyone (mostly Gheb) who interacted with him.
-Not get lynched.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

His reaction was appropriate.

I avoided commenting on it because I thought you were gambiting and I didn't want to butt in. For what's the point of a gambit if it's pointed out?

Or you avoided it to not get your hands dirty?