El paso TMS - brawl/melee tournament Nov. 14th-16th (MK is banned)

[furiousduffmanx]

El Paso: I hate you guys for bustin' my balls by making this such a close date to my OH SNAP! v4.0 tournament. I've gone back and forth over it for the last couple of days, but it is with great disappointment that I have decided that I will not be able to attend this exciting event of yours. The drive, in and of itself, is not very daunting for me, but I will be dropping a lot of money in order to house 50+ OOSers for OH SNAP!, and I don't think my wallet can handle the additional expenditure of making such a long trip down to El Paso. To all of my other Texas brethren making the trip out there: good luck to you guys, and hope you guys are all still able to make it out to OH SNAP!. =)

Sorry man all other dates were taken by other tournies. Only date i could think of. I was afraid that conflicts like this would happen. Hopefully we can make it to yours too along with everyone else

Wow you guys have that many local players?!

Our tournies et 60 people with out advertising and are always different people so if we manage to get everyone together then it is done. So Yeah. EL Paso is pretty big

 

[Hylian]

el paso 20th largest city in the nation, heh werenot
as small as somepeople think we are......

and
@ hylian. i have no logic, thus the name error
also i dont get angry fro longer than 1 second so im over it

dont know how u are with grudges but
i feel fine

I hold no grudges with anyone from Online. I don't really understand how people can get upset online...I mean..it's online lol. I don't judge people until I meet them. Sure, I will call them an idiot online...but that is because they are being an idiot online. It doesn't mean they are one in person lol.

I will also argue with anyone about anything smash related .

 

[Le_THieN]

Sorry man all other dates were taken by other tournies. Only date i could think of. I was afraid that conflicts like this would happen. Hopefully we can make it to yours too along with everyone else

Your fine, buddy. Do whatcha gotta do. I will be excited if you guys decide to confirm though - I know you guys in particular were desperate about getting housing, so if you can decide whether or not you are coming, I will be willing to set aside an extra $75-100 for a motel room for you guys. No joke

 

[furiousduffmanx]

Your fine, buddy. Do whatcha gotta do. I will be excited if you guys decide to confirm though - I know you guys in particular were desperate about getting housing, so if you can decide whether or not you are coming, I will be willing to set aside an extra $75-100 for a motel room for you guys. No joke

Man thanks a lot but we are still looking at a 12 hour drive ourselves... but we will let you know for sure
Once again thanks

 

[V3RMILLION]

God ****, every time I come back there's all sorts of nonsense. After reading 100 pages of arguing, I'm thinking we won't go with HOBO's ruleset since it seems to be so unpopular. Plus yeah, after playing with Duffman for a while, I learned that all chaingrabs aren't all that UNGODLY. I was able to smash DI over him a few times and I'm not even that good at this game. I don't know what half the technical terms mean. What the hell is a IASA frame? Jesus speak some english, yeah? But anyhoo, don't freak out about the rules just yet. We'll get back to all you out of state people (I include all other Texans when I say this cause you might as well be out of state) so don't get all fidgety over the rules just yet. Oh and MetaKnight is an idiot. But he's a sexy ball-shaped idiot, ****it.

 

[elbigmo06]

ima try my best to attend this one sounds like it will be fun hopefully i can decide who to use out of my top 3 mains. and for everyone attending have fun and get some good offline brawls lmao lates.

ps. arturito if possible can u send me more up to date info to my aib, on el paso tournaments. you've given me some before and i appreciate that alot thanks man.

 

[Neocell]

I hope santi comes, his BAIR is smexy

 

[Neocell]

and you too Dojo, you seem like a cool guy ;P

 

[error13]

no eric! ur gonna get a double post thing!!! no!

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

^ I double posted once out of my 1000 posts and got reported. Its was right after verms double post to which was like 2 minutes apart and nothing happened to him!!!!! uhhh that was gay.

My god, I leave for like an hour and things start exploding in here. What is different about HOBO's rules than normal tournaments? Besides MetaKnight being banned?

I was busy all day hence posting at almost 3 am. I really fell behind so can you all repost your MMs even though I read most of them I forgot right away.



Chain locks / grabs are limited to 50 throws each!!! what now noobs scared you wont get a kill unless you get them to 999%?

About housing for all of you wondering I might actually fit like up to 40 people if you all sleep like on every inch of the floor. Some of you can even sleep out side in the shed with my dog and cat.

MK decision should happen tomorrow and for who ever asked about melee rules I don't know them so someone post up a good rule set no one actually seems against the MK ban so it seems like it will end up happening.

 

[fallenangemon0]

^ I double posted once out of my 1000 posts and got reported. Its was right after verms double post to which was like 2 minutes apart and nothing happened to him!!!!! uhhh that was gay.



I was busy all day hence posting at almost 3 am. I really fell behind so can you all repost your MMs even though I read most of them I forgot right away.



Chain locks / grabs are limited to 50 throws each!!! what now noobs scared you wont get a kill unless you get them to 999%?

About housing for all of you wondering I might actually fit like up to 40 people if you all sleep like on every inch of the floor. Some of you can even sleep out side in the shed with my dog and cat.

MK decision should happen tomorrow and for who ever asked about melee rules I don't know them so someone post up a good rule set no one actually seems against the MK ban so it seems like it will end up happening.

Sounds good.

 

[LeeHarris]

Anyways Dallas does appreciate if anyone would care to house 5 people we would madly appreciate it and probably buy you dinner or something . Dallas will give you a definitely answer within the first week of November on if we are coming.

And duffman your MM is accepted .

Wtf, I give you housing, you steal my beer and food, and all I get is like $4 in change in a cup and a bunch of dirty sheets to wash! No dinner for me

Chain locks / grabs are limited to 50 throws each!!! what now noobs scared you wont get a kill unless you get them to 999%?

Come on, that's a ridiculous rule. You can't expect someone to count out 50 chaingrabs and actually enforce a DQ if they do 51. Just get rid of it.

 

[error13]

LEEHARRIS ha ha
i always thought u avatar was winnie the pooh in a costume
but its the egg from egg song!!!!!!

 

[forkgirl]

the title says melee and brawl but the main post really seemed to just be brawl...

so how big is melee expecting to be?

ignoresies?

*loses interest in this tourney*

 

[LeeHarris]

Sorry, no women allowed

This tournament should ban MK

 

[V3RMILLION]

ignoresies?

*loses interest in this tourney*

Hah, ignoresies? What is that? We had already mentioned that the Melee tournament would have LESS people than Brawl, but thats to be expected. I dunno, maybe somewhere between 30 to 40 people.

 

[DallasPhat]

Wtf, I give you housing, you steal my beer and food, and all I get is like $4 in change in a cup and a bunch of dirty sheets to wash! No dinner for me



Come on, that's a ridiculous rule. You can't expect someone to count out 50 chaingrabs and actually enforce a DQ if they do 51. Just get rid of it.

Okay lee I will purchase you lunch / dinner at Hobo 12 buddy .

And about the metaknight ban.. I guess no one read like the 15 posts I did about how if you guys don't have any metaknight users the ban is going to be less significant if not change nothing in your community so I see no point in the ban.

I'm just saying if you ban mk then when people from el paso travel ooc or oos you're going to be at a disadvantage because the chance of you playing a MK is very likely. So doing the ban will only hinder you, so I believe keep him unban until SBR agrees to do so and play some of the OOC metaknighters. This comes from someone who doesn't even play MK.

 

[LeeHarris]

Okay lee I will purchase you lunch / dinner at Hobo 12 buddy .

And about the metaknight ban.. I guess no one read like the 15 posts I did about how if you guys don't have any metaknight users the ban is going to be less significant if not change nothing in your community so I see no point in the ban.

I'm just saying if you ban mk then when people from el paso travel ooc or oos you're going to be at a disadvantage because the change of you playing a MK is very likely. So doing the ban will only hinder you, so I believe keep him unban until SBR agrees to do so and play some of the OOC metaknighters.

But tournament attendance has dropped (partially bc of MK) and I doubt I will plan to travel to this unless MK is banned. So you can count on at least +1 person wanting to come if MK is banned.

And also, I am an SBR member. I'm one of two people back there who has supporting banning MK since the beginning of this entire thing. Basically we're at a stand still right now, and they have decided to leave it up to TOs until January. We WANT to see MK banned tournaments AND regular tournaments so that we can collect data on character diversity and community health.

 

[DallasPhat]

But tournament attendance has dropped (partially bc of MK) and I doubt I will plan to travel to this unless MK is banned. So you can count on at least +1 person wanting to come if MK is banned.

Yes tournament attendance has dropped alittle bit but it seems like doing the ban in a community that doesnt have ANY metaknight users is not going to be beneficial for them. Anyways Dallas will not show up if MK is banned cause I know infinity won't go and I don't think damien will either. So.. i lose my 2 people helping me pay for gas therefore I can't go. And to be honest I'm pretty sure that after hobo 12 the community will have alot data since I'm assuming its going to be another 70+ turnout at hobo.

 

[LeeHarris]

Yes tournament attendance has dropped alittle bit but it seems like doing the ban in a community that doesnt have ANY metaknight users is not going to be beneficial for them. Anyways Dallas will not show up if MK is banned cause I know infinity won't go and I don't think damien will either. So.. i lose my 2 people helping me pay for gas therefore I can't go. And to be honest I'm pretty sure about after hobo 12 the community will have alot data since I'm assuming its going to be another 70+ turnout at hobo.

But if they ban MK, the people traveling will benefit. And if they have no MK users, then banning him will not affect their community in any way.

And I think d4ba would show up because he supports the ban of MK. Infinity is the only MK in all of Texas that doesn't support the ban (and it's because he ONLY plays MK).

 

[DallasPhat]

But if they ban MK, the people traveling will benefit. And if they have no MK users, then banning him will not affect their community in any way.

And I think d4ba would show up because he supports the ban of MK. Infinity is the only MK in all of Texas that doesn't support the ban (and it's because he ONLY plays MK).

I do agree with the ban.. but I think the banning WILL BE more beneficial in a community that has a TON of metaknights. It makes the data collected even that more valuable so I think for El Paso the ban shouldn't be done. And you're probably right d4ba will probably still attend but that mean I got to find a 3rd .

Anyways Dallas would love it if you guys could throw up an attendance list so we can get a rough estimate on how many to expect.

 

[V3RMILLION]

I would but I'm not the OP. That guy is slacking it. He has "school" or something.

 

[Dastrn]

The MK ban doesn't have to be a huge factor in this tournament for it to be worth trying.

It's not as if the TO would have to say "MK is terribly broken and NEEDS to be banned everywhere!" All we're asking is that for a tournament this size, it would be sweet for us to be able to report to the SBR how a no-MK tournament worked out in a region that is flooded with tornado-spam and dair-gimping.

If any of you don't think that metaknight should be perma-banned this soon, you are in good company because I feel the same way, as does about half of the SBR. We're not asking for a universal perma-ban. We're simply asking that for this tournament we can find out what it's like at a regional level to not use him.

This tournament is unique among most southwest events in that it is guaranteed to be multi-state, since AZ, NM, and even socal could reasonably attend, whereas in dallas, it's much harder to pull in NM and AZ (although I guess you'll get some LA and OK kids). It's a great opportunity to try Brawl at a large tournament without MK, and we'd love to see it happen.

 

[Daimonster]

The MK ban doesn't have to be a huge factor in this tournament for it to be worth trying.

The MK ban ruling can and will play a huge factor in an OOC/OOS tournament. A test of player skill in a OOC/OOS tournament should not insist that a certain character cannot attend. Take OC3 for hypothetical taste, what if the TO insisted a MARTH ban on the ruleset. Players from all states who play very strong Marth's would not bother attending this tournament. Switching back to our current situation, you are asking to host a TEST tournament determining player skill by banning a character that your community has ZERO pro-level experience with. I believe your community is skipping the part of what metaknight does to the community.

Don't get me wrong, I am highly in favor of the MK ban through SBR; but I am not for a tournament that forgets why they declare a specific ruling. Your community sounds as if they have not witnessed a top 3 placing of MK/MK/MK over and over and over again. For proving grounds, I believe you should allow MK and witness first hand how destructive this character can be. Call me greedy, but you guys will understand my position after witnessing a tournament of this caliber with MK allowed.

MK Banned tournaments should only be done in local tournaments. After Dallas did a MK banned tournament, the character usage was soooo diverse...doing so was hard to determine if one character had an advantage over them all. Many matchups were 50:50 or 6:4 (hardly a counter). They led to closer matches and game winner was determined more so by mindgames than outright moveset destruction. I am somewhat unhappy about Xyro doing a MK ban test run at hobo 12. However, I see the reasoning is because their local tournaments pull such HUGE numbers that can and will be an extremely good data collector.

Overall, leave the MK banned tournaments to communities that already know why we host them. We still have MK allowed tournaments because test runs are simply that...test runs.

 

[error13]

why is everyone saying el paso has no meta players?

we do have some, our largest tournament this year was won
by a metaknight that went thru a clean sweep and never lost
the only reason our communtiy hasnt banned him already is because its
sort of a silent agreement between everyone, everyone is kinda ashamed to use him
but we are aware of how much an advantage this character has over all other characters

and it would be cool if OOS and OOC come with a diverse set or characters and strategies
not all playing the d-air gimpying agressive overtaking metaknight we all know and hate.

 

[V3RMILLION]

*COUGHErrorisaMetaKnightplayerCOUGH* I'm surprised you wouldn't mind a ban...

 

[error13]

*COUGHErrorisaMetaKnightplayerCOUGH* I'm surprised you wouldn't mind a ban...

ya its fun to just dominate people with him but, its funner to have an intense match heh
i would just hate to see brawl become super smash meta knights

 

[Daimonster]

middle paragraph.

My bad for misjudging your experience. I would <3 to experience your community first hand.

I still believe a MK banned tourny is not very important in your region. NM is already going to completely ban MK in all tournaments. Their best and only MK user is Sinz. You can PM him how well players do against him and whether or not those players are on his skill level to determine their viewpoint. AZ, from I can remember, represented them at an OOS NM tourny playing Pitt, Snake and Kirby. They probably can get collective data from MK ban tourny's hosted by CA or AZ themselves...somewhere further west coast. A test run collectively gathering NM, AZ and west TX doesn't seem very fruitful in my opinion.

I'm against the merit of hosting a MK banned tournament in El paso.

 

[Dastrn]

The MK ban ruling can and will play a huge factor in an OOC/OOS tournament. A test of player skill in a OOC/OOS tournament should not insist that a certain character cannot attend. Take OC3 for hypothetical taste, what if the TO insisted a MARTH ban on the ruleset. Players from all states who play very strong Marth's would not bother attending this tournament. Switching back to our current situation, you are asking to host a TEST tournament determining player skill by banning a character that your community has ZERO pro-level experience with. I believe your community is skipping the part of what metaknight does to the community.

Don't get me wrong, I am highly in favor of the MK ban through SBR; but I am not for a tournament that forgets why they declare a specific ruling. Your community sounds as if they have not witnessed a top 3 placing of MK/MK/MK over and over and over again. For proving grounds, I believe you should allow MK and witness first hand how destructive this character can be. Call me greedy, but you guys will understand my position after witnessing a tournament of this caliber with MK allowed.

MK Banned tournaments should only be done in local tournaments. After Dallas did a MK banned tournament, the character usage was soooo diverse...doing so was hard to determine if one character had an advantage over them all. Many matchups were 50:50 or 6:4 (hardly a counter). They led to closer matches and game winner was determined more so by mindgames than outright moveset destruction. I am somewhat unhappy about Xyro doing a MK ban test run at hobo 12. However, I see the reasoning is because their local tournaments pull such HUGE numbers that can and will be an extremely good data collector.

Overall, leave the MK banned tournaments to communities that already know why we host them. We still have MK allowed tournaments because test runs are simply that...test runs.

You sound like you think you know better than I do.

The SBR is looking for tournament result data from all sorts of tournaments to determine how to handle the metaknight situation. I've attended smash tournaments for years now, and I am confident that if only local tournaments try to ban him for the sake of the SBR's need for data, the data will be skewed.

We need some larger, multi-state tournaments to try it as well. I've seen plenty of tournaments with MK taking 5 of the top 8, and 2.5 of the top 3 spots. It's happened in Texas. It's happened in Florida. It's happened in California. It's happened in MD/VA. We know it's happening. What we don't know is what sort of character diversity we would have if we removed him from the equation. If it's just the same 3 or 4 characters in the top 8-12 anyways, then it may or may not be worth banning MK. If suddenly we see 12-15 characters in every region doing well, with lots of interesting matchups and whatnot, then we probably know what's best for the community, and should remove MK to create a much more exciting, diverse, and competitive environment.

As much as I am against premature character banning in general, I am very interested to see how this situation plays out and this El Paso tournament is an ideal testing ground for this sort of ban. Texas is by far the most metaknight-full state, and El Paso is IN TEXAS. The local EP crowd might not be loaded with metaknights, but it looks like dallas is coming, and that city is by reputation simply flooded with the Texas Tornado, Metaknight. (i like how that worked out...)

In your hypothetical situation of a Marth ban at OC3, I imagine no one would attend since Marth is nowhere near the runaway god tier character that Metaknight is, and there was almost never a conversation about banning him in Melee, as far back as I can remember, which is late 2k3, or early 2k4. A national tournament at the level of OC3 would be foolish to go out on a limb against the grain of the entire smash community and ban a character. The atmosphere surrounding the Texas smash scene in particular (and the overall brawl scene in the US in general) is very different from the atmosphere for OC3, because the community is begging for a decision to be made and nationalized so we can all know what to expect at FC -829 next year, or whatever ends up being the big national event in summer 09. This regional el paso tournament might prove to be a valuable piece of data for the SBR to make a suggestion in time for next year.

Resisting it on principle is kind of silly. It's early in Brawl's life, and we need to explore what ruleset promotes competition, enjoyment, and ultimately, a long tournament shelf-life for Brawl.

They probably can get collective data from MK ban tourny's hosted by CA or AZ themselves...somewhere further west coast. A test run collectively gathering NM, AZ and west TX doesn't seem very fruitful in my opinion.

I'm against the merit of hosting a MK banned tournament in El paso.

We need data from multiple states/regions to get a broader, more balanced set of data. It may be that certain characters will rise on the national level without metaknight but CA and NM don't happen to have anyone good maining that character.

 

[error13]

My bad for misjudging your experience. I would <3 to experience your community first hand.

I still believe a MK banned tourny is not very important in your region. NM is already going to completely ban MK in all tournaments. Their best and only MK user is Sinz. You can PM him how well players do against him and whether or not those players are on his skill level to determine their viewpoint. AZ, from I can remember, represented them at an OOS NM tourny playing Pitt, Snake and Kirby. They probably can get collective data from MK ban tourny's hosted by CA or AZ themselves...somewhere further west coast. A test run collectively gathering NM, AZ and west TX doesn't seem very fruitful in my opinion.

I'm against the merit of hosting a MK banned tournament in El paso.

i agree with u that on a regular basis a ban really isnt necessary, but with the way this tournament is going with the size and just the amount of people coming it would be nice to have a large diverse fun tournament without having to see the top ten players all using the same character.

 

[Daimonster]

snipl.

I'm starting to see your viewpoint much clearer than before.

My thoughts were how bad el paso's community of diverse (hoping) characters would get demolished by metaknight vs...Your hopes of combining many diverse communities into a large diverse top 20 placings. Correct?

Your take is most likely better for the community all over the USA. I respect that and therefore change my mind.

 

[error13]

YEAH!!! Make the side notes bigger so everyone can see them. Put a colored flyer from richard, he posted new ones

ha ha i just read this

i like the YEAH!!!! make the side notes bigger ha ha ha ha ha

u sound like a kid on christmas morning

 

[fallenangemon0]

I'm starting to see your viewpoint much clearer than before.

My thoughts were how bad el paso's community of diverse (hoping) characters would get demolished by metaknight vs...Your hopes of combining many diverse communities into a large diverse top 20 placings. Correct?

Your take is most likely better for the community all over the USA. I respect that and therefore change my mind.

Thank you ^_^


EDIT: Sarcasm?

ha ha i just read this

i like the YEAH!!!! make the side notes bigger ha ha ha ha ha

u sound like a kid on christmas morning

Richard print me some copies of the flyer!! I need to spam school and Las Palmas center!!

 

[error13]

Thank you ^_^






Richard print me some copies of the flyer!! I need to spam school and Las Palmas center!!

alright ill try to give them to u at MP today

 

[fallenangemon0]

alright ill try to give them to u at MP today

I cant go dude... Remember my mom through a ******** fit about me getting a ride?

Unless...

*sharpens scythe*

 

[error13]

heh alrite well this weekend i guess heh

 

[fallenangemon0]

Yeah.

I wonder how the MK-less results are gonna look


One can only wait XD

 

[KosukeKGA]

I hope the Brawlers will also sign up for Melee as well.

 

[TengenToppaTetsuya]

So, who is going to MP today? I can go, just need to know whos going to be there. This tourney is starting to sound awsome! Biggest one yet hopefully!

 

[xion07]

$60 for gas round trip, huh? Covering you isn't the issue. How many people will come is. If we could get five people to go that'd be awesome.

Alright, are you staying the whole three days?