_X_
Smash Lord
Bookmarking and waiting for a vid.
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Edge Spiking- A New Found Technique
- Thread starter Masterplum
- Start date
Falling slowly and just slightly below the stage =/= A spike.
A Spike/Meteor Smash hits you almost entirely downwards. Depending on the percentage, the distance you travel will be greater. Meteor Smashes can be Meteor Canceled starting from halfway through the downward travel. Spikes cannot.
This is not spiking, it's just hitting someone off the stage and having them fall a bit. Wow. How innovate and advanced.
It's not a technique. Sorry to say but it's genuinely just any attack that has the right amount of knockback into a meteor smash or spike. And for the person that asked if Lucario can do it.....bless you (no, Lucario doesn't have a spike). Psy.
Dantarion
Smash Champion
OP is just talking about hitting them off the edge and spiking them. Other guy is talking about all kinds of stuff, but here what i think he is trying to get at.
You can hit your opponent while they are off the stage, back towards the stage, bouncing them downward to their doom, a la DK stage spike.
you might be able to do that with some random move that has weird knockback from standing on the stage, I guess
You can hit your opponent while they are off the stage, back towards the stage, bouncing them downward to their doom, a la DK stage spike.
you might be able to do that with some random move that has weird knockback from standing on the stage, I guess
Tomkraven
Smash Journeyman
this thread is sooo confusing... someone said its because the ledge vaccums u and ur in hitsun animation...
other one said that the ftilt spikes u blah blah blah... we need a serious explanation or a video, if not just close this meaningless thread.
other one said that the ftilt spikes u blah blah blah... we need a serious explanation or a video, if not just close this meaningless thread.
Blackshadow
Smash Ace
So these are the sorts of people playing Brawl, eh...
They are saying the same thing. Plum just said it in a confusing way. They are being spiked BECAUSE the ledge vacuums you, but you cant grab because of hitstun. Its an interesting little tech but against humans its not very useful because 1) getting a human to stand at the very tip of the stage does not happen often 2) most character's recoveries are good enough to make it back 3) only works at low %'s 4) some characters cant even do this (such as luigi whose jab doesnt cause enough hitstun).
Hes not talking about about meteor smashing or stage spiking. The actual technique is the fact that characters fall straight down after being jabbed by other certain characters when standing at the very tip of the stage. Meteor smashing and stage spikes are just possible follow-ups to this tech.
it is sorta like a spike though because it cant be meteor cancelled. Just a VERY weak one and it can work on link or ike if you do the right aerial and get them caught under the ledge using a good bair like kirby's after getting em with the mini spike caused by the jab.
P.S. I tried using some chars f-tilts and discovered that most chars have too much lag after the f-tilt to be able to follow up before the opponent recovers.
Thank you for your amazing contribution to this thread.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
You really ought to rewrite your OP, it's very vague. After reading it I had no clue what you were talking about. Be more specific. in other words
Video please, it's a bit vague.
Video please, it's a bit vague.
Patsie
Smash Journeyman
Seems to me like the majority of posters here decided to ram a cactus into their @$$ before posting.
Seriously, calm down.
Seriously, calm down.
AlAxe
Smash Journeyman
The first post is sooo vague and misleading nobody knew what it actually was. This tech is still pretty useless but at least I know what he's talking about.
Mr.Trite
Smash Apprentice
For those telling others to calm down, why don't you try it yourself to see how useless it is?
Seriously, I went to training mode to try out those new footstool combos for Shiek, and decided to try out this garbage while I was there.
I had Snake push the enemy, who was IKE by the way as the OP said and pushed him to the ledge. Seeing as how you cannot make the enemy teeter by pushing them, I jabbed. Indeed Ike DID fall off the ledge, but only a little bit. About 1/3 of his Aether or something I don't remember.
I set the damage to 999 and the same thing happens. Exact same thing with Snake's ftilt in both situations.
After this, I took control of Ike and made him teeter on the ledge. Both of Snake's ftilt and jab just hit him like he was on the ground normally.
Until there's a video showing me how this works with the enemy being spiked NEAR THE CRYSTAL of FD, people should try this themselves before saying anything.
Seriously, I went to training mode to try out those new footstool combos for Shiek, and decided to try out this garbage while I was there.
I had Snake push the enemy, who was IKE by the way as the OP said and pushed him to the ledge. Seeing as how you cannot make the enemy teeter by pushing them, I jabbed. Indeed Ike DID fall off the ledge, but only a little bit. About 1/3 of his Aether or something I don't remember.
I set the damage to 999 and the same thing happens. Exact same thing with Snake's ftilt in both situations.
After this, I took control of Ike and made him teeter on the ledge. Both of Snake's ftilt and jab just hit him like he was on the ground normally.
Until there's a video showing me how this works with the enemy being spiked NEAR THE CRYSTAL of FD, people should try this themselves before saying anything.
It's not a spike just because they fall. They have to fall with an almost entirely vertical trajectory straight down.
This is just getting hit and falling slightly because of it. I guess Zelda's non-sweetspotted Dair spikes!
theEffinBear
Smash Apprentice
My theory that this happens due to the ledge magnet effect was wrong, by the way: this works on all edges, regardless of grabbability. I was also wrong about the "teetering" part; just have the target roll at the edge so they're facing towards the stage (this is probably the only way this "edge-spiking" will ever happen in real gameplay).
If you're standing on the edge of an on-stage platform that's close enough to the ground, you will hit the ground before the hitstun wears off, so you pancake out -- you can't tech this fall. Only a few tournament-legal stages have platforms low enough above the ground to make the untechable fall:
Luigi's Mansion (the pair of tiny platforms at the center), Yoshi's Island (low side of tilted platform), Distant Planet (every single on-stage ledge works), Hanenbow (only when two adjacent leaves are angled towards each other), and Brinstar (right-side platform). I didn't check any stage transformations or Rainbow Cruise.
Mario's f-tilt doesn't seem to stun long enough for the untechable landing, though DK's and Snake's f-tilts both do -- and yes, in fact, Zelda's weakspotted f/b-airs also have this effect when your opponent is standing right on the edge: they uncontrollably, untechably fall straight downwards instead of the normal near-lack of hitstun. I didn't check any of the other moves listed.
The "can't tech" part is like a very weak version of the air footstool, even though both characters start from standing. The interesting part is that you can hit someone who is on the ground in such a way that they fall straight downwards off the edge. It may be nigh-useless, and I overstated the case for this "edge-spiking", but it still breaks with conventional Smash wisdom. Maybe someone will find a use for it, like footstool combos.
/RtEB
Yes, it is a spike because they fall with an almost entirely vertical trajectory straight down. A normal hit sends them skidding backwards slightly, still on their feet. If they fall off the edge before this skidding hitstun ends, they begin falling straight downwards uncontrollably. The "skidding hitstun" seems to be the key, which is why Snake's f-tilt (which sends them skidding nearly nowhere, so they have to be right on the edge) does this even 999%, while DK's stops working at fairly low percents. If you fall off the edge from this, you can't grab the ledge nor tech until you recover from the hitstun. Depending on floatiness and maybe DI, you recover only after you've fallen too far to grab the ledge and you have to use your double jump. No, this ain't tremendously detrimental, but it's still worse than not being knocked off the stage straight downwards.
If you're standing on the edge of an on-stage platform that's close enough to the ground, you will hit the ground before the hitstun wears off, so you pancake out -- you can't tech this fall. Only a few tournament-legal stages have platforms low enough above the ground to make the untechable fall:
Luigi's Mansion (the pair of tiny platforms at the center), Yoshi's Island (low side of tilted platform), Distant Planet (every single on-stage ledge works), Hanenbow (only when two adjacent leaves are angled towards each other), and Brinstar (right-side platform). I didn't check any stage transformations or Rainbow Cruise.
Mario's f-tilt doesn't seem to stun long enough for the untechable landing, though DK's and Snake's f-tilts both do -- and yes, in fact, Zelda's weakspotted f/b-airs also have this effect when your opponent is standing right on the edge: they uncontrollably, untechably fall straight downwards instead of the normal near-lack of hitstun. I didn't check any of the other moves listed.
The "can't tech" part is like a very weak version of the air footstool, even though both characters start from standing. The interesting part is that you can hit someone who is on the ground in such a way that they fall straight downwards off the edge. It may be nigh-useless, and I overstated the case for this "edge-spiking", but it still breaks with conventional Smash wisdom. Maybe someone will find a use for it, like footstool combos.
/RtEB
You can't tech normal hits either. You have to wait 'til hitstun wears off to recover. >_>'
Also, did anyone try to DI this, thus maybe altering their trajectory and not getting "spiked"? If you can DI it completely, then it's not a spike.
Also, did anyone try to DI this, thus maybe altering their trajectory and not getting "spiked"? If you can DI it completely, then it's not a spike.
Black_Heretic
Smash Lord
ok, I checked it w/ Snake, it happens but its not really anything too useful, maybe in doubles if your partner is in position it can lead to a stage spike...maybe
but still, its just slight downward momentum and the friend I tested it with never got all the way to the diamond thing before he could jump and re-grab the ledge
but still, its just slight downward momentum and the friend I tested it with never got all the way to the diamond thing before he could jump and re-grab the ledge
Test it again, with the friend DI:ing the move (all kinds of DI). If it can be DI:ed more than just a smidgeon and Smash DI:ed, then it's not a spike of any kind.
MarKO X
Smash Champion
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Hmmm... interesting, because a friend of mine spiked with Ike's Dtilt on the ledge. He "discovered" that one a looooooooooong time ago. I had no idea that if he'd post that here, he'd get 50+ posts.
But it's an interesting tech... or at least sounds like it. Causes a lot of controvesy, and we all know that sells... almost as much as sex.
But it's an interesting tech... or at least sounds like it. Causes a lot of controvesy, and we all know that sells... almost as much as sex.
samdaballer
Smash Ace
the op is trying to make a simple string of moves seem like an advanced tech?
hokay????
hokay????
samdaballer
Smash Ace
sorry double post, garbage internet 
Jun.
Smash Lord
congratulations
you have just reinvented the wheel.
brawl players need to seriously stop trying to find some "godly advanced tech" to spread their name across the boards.
you have just reinvented the wheel.
brawl players need to seriously stop trying to find some "godly advanced tech" to spread their name across the boards.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
People also have to stop being so rude after there are already 4 pages of flaming.
Being remotely not-positive =/= Flaming
People need to stop being so sentitive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)
I can be sarcastic, critical, snarky and still have the post turn out constructive and relevant.
People need to grow thicker skin. This is not Sesame Street. It's the f***ing internet.
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
Always correct. And with a snarky and critical attitude to boot! Hugs all around!Yuna said:
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
op finally found out there are spikes in the game not just fsmash
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
What Cat Fight said
theEffinBear
Smash Apprentice
It's possible to tech your landing when you're Ganon-stomped, even at 999%. Hard, but eminently doable, especially at 1/4x speed. But if your edge-spiked off a ledge that's too close to the ground below, then even at 1/4x speed, it's impossible to tech.
You can try it yourself in training mode: choose Ganon, make the CPU another Ganon, and play on Luigi's Mansion. Ganon's shorthop is too low to put him on the tiny platforms in the middle of the ground floor (the ones that you can be untechably edge-spiked off of), so the distance won't be a factor. Have one Ganon do a shorthop as the other uses the d-air. If you time it right, you can tech this even at 999%.
Now choose Snake, and keep Ganon as the CPU. Put Ganon on one of those tiny platforms, have him roll away from you, and then do the first hit of the f-tilt. He'll fall off, spin in midair, and then pancake out on the ground. Try it again, at 1/4x speed, hitting the shield button just before you hit the ground. Your timing won't matter -- you just can't tech.
If you SmashDI away from the edge, you won't fall off; otherwise you will. If you do normal DI, you can influence the initial angle of your fall, but ONLY the initial angle. I tried DIing in all sorts of directions, but none of it affected anything besides that initial angle: you don't have regular air control. Again, it really seems like being footstooled, except that it starts with an attack (which lets you SDI and DI).
/RtEB
Yuna is practicing something we like to call "skepticism", and happens to be the reason I've tested further and found some of the limits and weird properties of this "edge-spiking".
Black_Heretic
Smash Lord
I didn't call it a spike, I said it was slight downward momentum... maybe we should refer to it as a push because spike is wrong
The only mention of spike in my last post was a possible (but very unlikely) use in doubles for setting up a stage spike for your partner
And we tested DI while testing this common occurrence, its completely easy to DI this push changing the angle of the fall... but thats all we could do
sorry if I was unclear
EDIT: we didn't regain air control for a small amount of time, not as long as a footstool, maybe half the time
J4pu
Smash Champion
where the hell is this promised video?
Black_Heretic
Smash Lord
Just go try it, its exactly what everybody says it is and its ridiculously easy to do
(because its not an AT)
D
Deleted member
Guest
Good discovery not for tournys or competitive brawl though
I meant teching as in Meteor Canceling as it appeared that was how the person I was quoting was using it. OIC, so he meant you cannot edgetech this for whatever reason?
So after 5 pages of BS, we've come to the conclusion that this is, indeed, just pushing your opponent off the stage, albeit possibly with the inability to edgetech the attack, even though it barely has any knockback at 999%, so it's not like it's that good either.
Black_Heretic
Smash Lord
So after 5 pages of BS, we've come to the conclusion that this is, indeed, just pushing your opponent off the stage, albeit possibly with the inability to edgetech the attack, even though it barely has any knockback at 999%, so it's not like it's that good either.[/QUOTE]
Those are the conclusions I at least came to, did you test it for yourself?
Those are the conclusions I at least came to, did you test it for yourself?
Masterplum
Smash Apprentice
sorry guys, I didnt mean to make you so upset. Its just that when I found out that I could "push" people off the edge downwards with a jab or Ftilt I thought it was a good discovery and I tried to come up with uses for it. I wasnt trying to make up something to spread my name across the board or whatever, it was something I didnt even try purposely to discover. Maybe someone will come up with a use for it but right now it doesnt seem likely. It would probably work good for melee because I dont think link can hit you when youre hanging on the edge with up b.
eat a d¡ck
pockyD
Smash Legend
so your discovery is that if you hit an opponent in the direction of the edge, they might go over the edge
eat a d¡ck Master Noob
theEffinBear
Smash Apprentice
Yes, as far as I can tell, it is utterly and completely impossible to tech this fall upon hitting the ground if you're on a low-enough on-stage platform.
Sequence of events
- You're standing right on the edge when Snake knees you.
- You enter hitlag, where you can SmashDI. If you SmashDI away from the edge during the freezeframe effect, you avoid the whole falling bit. Otherwise...
- You enter hitstun. Because you were right on the edge and didn't SmashDI away from it, you slide off the edge. If you DI left or right, your trajectory will be slanted a bit in that direction; otherwise your trajectory is straight down.
- You are falling with a specific tumbling animation. The direction depends on the DI you did above, but all input seems to be ignored during this falling animation. If the ground is really close below you, go to A below. If it's farther away, go to B below.
- The ground is too close, so you are still tumbling in that specific way when you meet it. You land hard, pancaking out. It doesn't matter whether you tried to tech, because you couldn't. Now you're just regularly on the ground, with all that entails.
- If the ground was far enough away, then your falling animation visibly changes (at least in 1/4x speed) before you reach it and you begin tumbling normally. You regain the ability to airdodge, jump, do an aerial, use a B-move, mash the control stick to re-enter your regular non-tumbling midair state, move left or right with regular air control, etc. If you choose not to do any of the above (besides the air control), you can even tech your landing.
This works from 0% through 999% only for Snake, because his regular f-tilt hitbox gives knockback fixed at almost zero. For other characters, it works only so long as their attack doesn't knock the target off the ground: the target must do the "slide backwards while stunned, still on their feet" animation, as far as I can tell.
I haven't tested meteor-canceling.
/RtEB