Dthrow after Chaingrab %

[Vlade]

Since these boards are quite dead I thought I'd liven things up a bit with this thread.

Obviously, certain mixups only work depending on the opponent's reaction to the dthrow. I would like these boards to discuss possible options the opponent has, and how we should punish these options when we predict them correctly.

Some of my favourite mixups:

- Jab to Dash Attack (DI away)
- IAP
- Regrab (Airdodge)

Discuss

 

[clowsui]

i actually disagree with all of yours LOL in part at least

dthrow -> iap should only be used at lower percentages, as your opponent gets higher and higher in percentage you will get closer and closer to them w/ IAP and as a result you will be in a riskier position especially given low hitstun

if you get the jab then dash attack is okay but they can di down right and shield, i suggest only the dash attack since it's safe 100% of the time

don't regrab through an airdodge, if they airdodge you have WAY more options like fsmash, walk -> ftilt, nair. you're guessing so making another guess when you can just get way more free damage off of the one hit is probably preferable since your goal with falco is usually to camp. but that was really my preference

you don't actually need to predict w/ dthrow, the whole goal is to force a reaction out of them. taking a prediction can be rewarding but it should only be done if you notice a pattern - otherwise it's just a guess and you can be punished

dehf has been doing this for a long time and as a result i've dubbed this the dehf trap.

note that the dehf trap does NOT work very well against multi jumpers if they're smart and do their best option (jump away) but you can punish that with a forward hop double laser or single laser so just keep that in mind that you need to guess sometimes.

if you dthrow them watch what they do. you even have an option here - you can mixup watching and immediately jabbing for free ftilt or you can just force them to react in your top zone (close up) that way

if you watch:
airdodge - dash attack them. higher percents it's favorable to stand there and do double lasers or a silent laser. IAP is possible at lower percentages
if they do an aerial - IAP! duh. or you can do lasers or you can do dash attack but it depends on the aerial honestly.
if they jump again - the trap is extended to a juggle and you can just read them again from there. probably the best option.
if they land and shield - non multi jumper's best option. laser them to force pressure or you can walk forward and go from there to reset close up pressure
if they airdodge - do whatever the hell you want, seriously
if they just land - laser

 

[DEHF]

Vlade if they air dodge dair would be better since it pops them up again and puts them in the same position and dehf trap hahaha I approve of that name

 

[J4pu]

If they DI away > AD you can charge a boost smash until the AD ends
also SH (retreating) shine is pretty safe

 

[Alphicans]

There are more advantages to re grabbing than just %. It's the psychological edge that you get. Honestly, think about how you feel after you get smashed compared to get hit by an aerial or get re grabbed past CG percentage. Getting re grabbed makes you feel like a scrub and super predictable, and the nervousness that is created is pretty big. Sure, after one re grab this isn't as evident, but string 2+ re grabs in a row, and I promise you're opponent will be sweating over it. Do this consistently throughout the match and you have quit the edge in the mind department. So, to me, it's a choice between guaranteed good %, or the chance to spoil the other person's game by only doing mediocre damage, and I prefer the latter.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

There are more advantages to re grabbing than just %. It's the psychological edge that you get. Honestly, think about how you feel after you get smashed compared to get hit by an aerial or get re grabbed past CG percentage. Getting re grabbed makes you feel like a scrub and super predictable, and the nervousness that is created is pretty big. Sure, after one re grab this isn't as evident, but string 2+ re grabs in a row, and I promise you're opponent will be sweating over it. Do this consistently throughout the match and you have quit the edge in the mind department. So, to me, it's a choice between guaranteed good %, or the chance to spoil the other person's game by only doing mediocre damage, and I prefer the latter.

I don't know. Airdodging into a laggy, slow as hell Fsmash that never works wrecks confidence.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I don't like wrecking people's confidence, thats a mean thing to do.

 

[Alphicans]

It does, but I can confidently say a re grab does a better job at it. Fsmash is a way better option for %, so if/when they get hit by it, they think, "oh good choice, I won't get hit by that again," but when they get re grabbed it's more like, "wtf? That's a ******** option, are you ****ing toying with me?" Then they start to question how seriously you're taking them. Basically my theory is that if you sometimes choose the worst option it can come back to reward you lots in the long run because you get your opponent into thinking they're worse than you. Obviously there is a risk to that, but I think it works more than it fails.

 

[swordsaint]

Also staling your smash.

I prefer to punish airdodges with a regrab, mindgames, a bit of % and some more follow ups.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Fsmash isn't (or at least shouldn't be) like lasers, Bair, Dair, jab, or even Usmash to where you're using it so often that it gets passed the first stage of staleness, so that shouldn't really be a problem. Really, you should be able to (and more than likely without trying) connect with 10 other attacks between Fsmashes.

And I think you're overrating the psychological effect . . . . Or at least assuming way too much about your opponent.

 

[Alphicans]

You're underrating it. A very big reason why Armada lost Genesis is because his roll got predicted and rested. He even admitted that it was too much to handle. Not even the best players are immune to this.

 

[Orion*]

fsmash is personally the worst choice unless you're 100% sure itll kill.

its better to go for more jabs/grabs, or nairs/dairs, depending on the percent maybe a random dash attack Once, because when they hit your opponents put into another trap/bad position. from there, continuing to read him, or depending on what hit you can just react, you get more follow ups.
in other words, follow up follow ups, with more follow ups until your ready to kill.

constantly being in a bad position, and continuing to get forced into **** situations aside from just wrecking confidence (wich btw is amazing), is actually just better than getting one good hit and then starting to camp again, esepcially against characters where you have soooo many more options than them in these sort of situations (snake).

"Basically my theory is that if you sometimes choose the worst option it can come back to reward you lots in the long run because you get your opponent into thinking they're worse than you. Obviously there is a risk to that, but I think it works more than it fails."

theres a risk in pretty much everything in this game. shield grabbing is low risk, covers a lot of options (upon reaction) with good reward.

 

[Orion*]

And I think you're overrating the psychological effect . . . . Or at least assuming way too much about your opponent.

no. mind ****s are great. when people start playing and they Really care, and theres something on the line. constantly getting read freaks you out since its already a high stress atmosphere. if someone panics, then they get even easier to read, its really underrated

 

[stealth3654]

If the opponent is at high %, DI's away/down, and air dodges, I like to DACUS.

 

[clowsui]

honestly i usually just do dash attack to pop people up since juggle traps are ridiculously good in this game + you can get tech reads off of dash attack >__> but i also mix in just waiting, walk usmash, lasers, etc.

i'm not limiting the options you have to those moves i'm just saying that i don't necessarily agree with a grab after airdodge. putting them in the same situation if they're any good they'll adapt, that's why you should mix it up.

furthermore there's different ways of destroying confidence, the best option is just mixing it up really if you notice that they airdodge. all my opponents have adapted pretty quick lol

 

[Notra]

BALLIN'!

who be trollin'?

 

[moyshe]

so much win in this thread

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I think Jab > Regrab would be good if your opponents has been goin' aggressive but fails to realise that they need to go on defense.

 

[Denzi]

Not entirely on topic but double jab is soooo pro.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Jab to dsmash or jab to gatling combo. If they di towards you and airdodge the jab you get a free regrab or fsmash.

also if you dthrow them near the ledge you have a very good chance of them diing towards you and airdodging.

 

[Vlade]

I actually forgot to put fsmash on my list, I actually use fsmash fairly often for reading airdodges

I'll try the dair DEHF

Alphicans brings up a great point about the regrab which everyone should consider. Having a crushing victory intelligence-wise is always good

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Not even the best players are immune to this.

Trust me, the top players have very solid mindsets and won't be bothered by getting grabbed some number of times. They will simply adapt.

 

[Tin Man]

I think Jabbing is always a goob option after Dthrow (assuming they can't be regrabbed 100%). From jab, another grab then Dthrow, the more the merrier

 

[M@v]

Dthrow->nair
Dthrow->dair
Dthrow-jab(First saw this when larry did it. thanks larry )
dthrow-jab-upsmash

 

[xX NJs2ILL Xx]

when i jab player like marth will b up and cancel my combo