DSO Biweeklies @ Drexel (Philadelphia, PA) Back in Business

[Xzax Kasrani]

The reason we shouldnt try it, is players like me that want to have fun using my main, who right now in the SBR is perfectly legal, is being banned. This screws up rankings first off, you don't let mk mains actually play the game. No one else has been for a mk ban and tried to get a mk ban in pa. Why do we need to give it a shot if no one besides ChiboSempai wants him banned. It doesn't make sense.

 

[_umbra_]

How would one tournament with him banned weaken our state THAT much? I think some of you are being overdramatic, if he was totally banned statewide then there would be a problem...but I consider tournies like this a break from having to face 20 f**king MKs at every tournament which gets HELLA boring. And this (I think) is the first to experiment with the MK ban in the area. If it works out, maybe other TOs will occasionally experiment with the ban as well and see if it improves their community or not...if it doesn't, it doesn't and he stays legal in all future tournaments. Keep an open mind instead of being all "OMG WE'LL SUX NOW CUZ WE HAF NO PARCTISE." If you main MK and don't like the rules, don't go then.
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*throws up flame shield, runs like hell and ducks for cover*

Of course that wouldn't be a problem if it was just one tournament, but if this one goes well those that follow could end up with the same ruleset. I'm not saying mk definitely shouldn't be banned at any tournament ever, but that if philly biweeklies/etc keep him banned for multiple events it could weaken the area as a whole when facing people from out of the area, which I think is something to consider.

 

[Ussi]

@Chibo, I never implied xzax was bad, but in PA there aren't any notable MKs. NJ doesn't count..

2nd I don't even care if MK is banned or not... that's what the "[text]" was for... It clearly said I'm not complaining cause i don't CARE. I was just making a statement.

IMO someone has to ban MK at some point to get him banned. Think of it this way: Go to NJ for MK practice while PA is practice for non-MK characters. Simple as that. I mean seriously, there is PLENTY of MK practice in NJ.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Ussi then wtf am i suppost to do..........

 

[GenesisJLS]

Ussi then wtf am i suppost to do..........

come to Jersey LULZ

 

[Ussi]

Ussi then wtf am i suppost to do..........

err umm... You're looking for 2nderys right? Just think of it as 2ndary training/scouting

 

[Rocann]

yeah don't ban mk

without any practice, I might have to either play with both hands or play while looking at the screen in order to beat umbra










and no I'm not serious I just like to baselessly trash talk for laughs ^_^

 

[blakinola]

There's a subjective problem with this whole thing. And it's who's the end-all-be-all entity that decides whether
-something is unfair or not
-complain betch moan QQ
-yadda yadda blah blah

I main Donkey Kong. He's an okay character. He has a lot of even matchups. MK vs DK is more fair than D3 vs DK. I have counterpicks. I try to cover my bases. But I'm going to try something at the next biweekly. Everyone who has ever faced a MK has had some sort of frustration. If I come rolling in with MK and take top 3, no doubt someone is gonna be pissed.

When I was at CoT 4, I would have made it into top 50 if I didn't go up against a MK. Both of my matches came down to it. And I played harder than the other player, but Tornado ***** me. And don't go telling me how easy it is to get out of it. You don't play DK and you don't know him as well as I do, so sit down and listen. I don't need anyone telling me how to play my character.

I know the importance of having a second and a third. I have all my bases covered except for D3. But when some MK comes up and doesn't have to try, it's very very disheartening. The MK mains don't know this, well, because they have little to worry about. I was talking to xzax yesterday, and I told him, "he doesn't know what it's like to be in my shoes" to which he responded, "then play MK."

If I go against andy G vs DK, i'll win less than 5 out of every 10 matches. But if I went and took a set with MK, I guarantee there would be issues. There's no greater pain than losing a match you should have won. That's what you have never felt, Xzax.

Genesis, who used to main Falco (a very scrubby one who only went for the CG), sorry man, now mains MK. I'm pretty sure the reasoning is to squeeze out a win, which I don't blame him for. Instead of learning Falco's matchups and stuff, he decides to take the easy way out, which I feel a lot of people will end up doing when the metagame stops advancing--just pick the best character and roll with it. I've played him vs MK and I still **** him. The matchup is not impossible, just very hard, and very frustrating. And don't give me any crap about bum...tell him to come to jersey, and I'm sure he won't place as high.

But, then comes the discussion of playing who you like, which no one, under any basis, has any right to tell anyone who to play as. So then we get to a standstill. Even rogue pit, who has a great pit, has decided to pick up MK--cause it's what wins. I can't blame him, but I lost a bit of respect, on the real.

There are a lot of gay things about Brawl in general. Infinites, camping, planking. There's little we want to do about it. And until the community grows balls and does something unanimously, then these little steps of changing rulesets and the like is what should happen. If brawl was a good game, the devs would release patches and updates (like they do to MMO's) There's only so much we can do as people, but the most important thing is that we enjoy this game.

Because when that goes away, there is no point. Bicker all you want everyone, because Ak is here to play Brawl with or without you. Know that when I play against any MK, I have a deep-rooted hatred for what you represent. The deterioration of brawl into more and more crap.

At least it can't get any worse.

 

[CT Chia]

qft everything

 

[Steel]

someone teach me how to play melee

 

[CT Chia]

just play brawl+ instead
melee is also kind of awesome though lol

 

[Steel]

is it possible to make a model hack and exchange marth for roy in brawl+, textures dont cut it imo

 

[CT Chia]

na, theres no model hacks yet

 

[Ussi]

someone teach me how to play melee

Just learn to SH and L cancel all you're aerials properly and you got all the tech skill NEEDED (WD is optional mostly)




I say we ban MK for this tourney, why? Because others might follow and that is a good thing. MK really does kill the competition...

And if anyone wants to see, I recorded BUM vs Spam (from October) And Bum got ***** by nado :\ He also lost to Inui losers afterwards... (also recorded)

 

[CT Chia]

that is probably the most false statement about melee iv ever heard with so much clouded judgement

aka : dont listen to him

 

[_umbra_]

posting to agree with chibo

 

[Steel]

Ussi when I asked how to play melee i didn't mean the basics >_>

 

[Takumaru]

Get the basics down first. The rest comes from experience.

 

[Shakugan]

Banning characters is not cool doesn't matter how good they are . To me its whatever i play brawl on the side for fun. Im just putting this out there since theres a problem on banning MK you should make the next tourny melee since everyone likes that game. I also might come to this tournament depending on how much cash i have.

Shakugan, maybe im a lion

 

[Rocann]

except NOT everybody likes that game (not speaking about myself, but there are some) and it hits attendance HARD

and not everybody plays brawl as a side thing. it's my main income and I can't just "play melee because it's more fun"

 

[Shakugan]

except NOT everybody likes that game (not speaking about myself, but there are some) and it hits attendance HARD

and not everybody plays brawl as a side thing. it's my main income and I can't just "play melee because it's more fun"

Point taken ill play either game so im down for anything i just want a chance to play more people in melee that is all.

Shakugan, maybe im a lion

 

[CT Chia]

yea theres no melee at the next one unfortunately.

if theres any secondary stuff after the brawl is done, it will be either draft crews, brawl+ singles or doubles (or both????), or brawl low tiers
im almost sure we'l have time for more events after brawl is done since we're there until 9pm. if theres any other events they will prob be like $3-5 unless its draft crews, which are free.

 

[Shakugan]

yea theres no melee at the next one unfortunately.

if theres any secondary stuff after the brawl is done, it will be either draft crews, brawl+ singles or doubles (or both????), or brawl low tiers
im almost sure we'l have time for more events after brawl is done since we're there until 9pm. if theres any other events they will prob be like $3-5 unless its draft crews, which are free.

If i dont go to lol maters then count me in. I will go play brawl with you guys and it would be mad cool if i was in a draft crew lol

Shakugan, maybe im a lion

 

[Clai]

Clai (Who picked up MK recently)

+Don't you think for a second that I picked up Metaknight since the last time. I never play Metaknight.

I laughed at this really, really hard. For the record, I must have missed your entire discussion of your rationale because I would have never thought that you were for banning MK. I seriously thought that this was just a sudden, spur-of-the-moment change based on recent events; that is why I replied like that. Now I will look at your discussion and try to reply in a reasonable matter, but I am adamantly against banning MK and I will show it.

Now, just so we're on the same page here, I have not, not recently, not ever, picked up Metaknight. I will not use Metaknight in any sort of serious competition. Ever. I main Ganondorf, use Kirby and Game and Watch, and that's it. There is absolutely no reason I will ever use Metaknight, no matter how I do in a tournament.

I'm going to just pin this on a misunderstanding and call it even. Otherwise, you have just called me out on my reasoning skills while at the same time severely skewing my words just to serve your side. That speaks a lot.

 

[CT Chia]

yea that was my bad on that part, ur sentance was a lil misleading lol

but it doesnt change my stance on mk

 

[GenesisJLS]

Genesis, who used to main Falco (a very scrubby one who only went for the CG), sorry man, now mains MK. I'm pretty sure the reasoning is to squeeze out a win, which I don't blame him for. Instead of learning Falco's matchups and stuff, he decides to take the easy way out, which I feel a lot of people will end up doing when the metagame stops advancing--just pick the best character and roll with it. I've played him vs MK and I still **** him. The matchup is not impossible, just very hard, and very frustrating. And don't give me any crap about bum...tell him to come to jersey, and I'm sure he won't place as high.

No offense taken bro, now it's time to back up those words.
=3
​

 

[Shirufu]

i mean,it'd be nice not to worry about metakinight at our tournaments, but, what about the big picture, when we go to other tournaments we'll have to deal with metaknights. So, maybe not allowing metaknight at like every third or even every other tournament wouldn't be so bad, but banning metaknight all together, it'll come back to bite us in the @$$.

-Cylf

 

[CT Chia]

It's not like I'm starting a state wide ban as of now. It's just this tourney for now. As Ak said, if nothing is never done about it, the community will never advance. Maybe this is the right way to go, maybe it isn't. But the fact that there has never been a MK ban tourney in Philly shows that I think we owe it to ourselves to atleast try it.

For the next biweekly, the ban stays.

For the biweekly after that, April 17th, it will either be Brawl+ or Melee.
Pro Melee - It's the day before SPOC7. It could be some good practice and get good attendance from everyone waiting for SPOC. I will also likely be in Melee mode at that time for SPOC.
Pro Brawl+ - We've never done a Brawl+ only biweekly. This would be cool to hype up Beyond the Limit. However we can possibly do Brawl+ side event at the next biweekly since it's a all day affair.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Melee because of SPOC

 

[Clai]

I've said my main argument for MK over and over and over that I felt it didn't need to be repeated here again. I understand people have different views on it, but they should be free to make the decision they want. It's ignorant to flat out say he is completely not ban worthy, as it's dead obvious there are some reasons, it's just up to people to decide if those reasons are enough to have him banned. I see it as he has no bad matchups. Some maybe argue some might be even, which ok, maybe he has an even one or two, but he doesn't lose to anyone. While you can't just ban a character for being the best in the game, every other character in the game has at least one bad matchup (waits for Xzax to say what all the NJ players say). Why should every single character in the game have to deal with a bad matchup somewhere except for one? It makes no sense, why doesn't everyone main MK? Maybe the playstyle just doesn't fit some players. But the fact that after I said this out of the people complaining two players have already said they picked up MK since the last biweekly only helps prove my point. Why wouldn't you?

There's also the oh so popular "Rogue Knight" story lol. Rogue Pit loses to Jash multiple times over the course of 3 tourneys. Picks MK which he practiced for less than a week (compared to almost a year of Pit), and wins. I see it as: At the highest level of play. MK is not bannable. The absolute top players have taken down plenty of MK like ADHD, Atomsk, Ally, Snakeee, etc. However, from bottom to high level play, MK is broken. The player facing the MK has to be such a higher skill than the MK player in order to win.

I searched a ways back in the thread and have seen nothing about you promoting a ban on MK. Therefore, I will use this as your reasoning as I try to make an argument.

Being the best character in the game is a double-edged sword. There is the benefit of being able to cycle through the entire cast without having to face a character that generally beats you, but at the same time, everyone is going to focus on your character. At this stage of the competitive scene, if you haven't learned to beat Metaknight by now, you're getting nowhere. Yes, every character has other matchups to worry about, but considering how much more Metaknight is used than anyone else, people are going to study ways to beat Metaknight much more extensively than any other character. Banning Metaknight now, especially when no other area near us has banned him, is only going to stymie our efforts in stopping him, and when Metaknight is going to be in every significant tournament, we will only get hurt in the long run (yes, this has been said before, but it bears repetition)

Additionally, the fact that 'two players have picked up Metaknight since the last bi-weekly' doesn't prove anything if said two players are insignificant in regards to these bi-weeklies. In the three bi-weeklies that have happened this year, only one person outside of M2K (since he's part of the absolute top players echleon that is outside the realm of Metaknight being broken) has reached the top eight. That is hardly considered domination. The only Metaknight main that has used him enough to even warrant discussing is Xzax, and I seriously doubt that anyone is complaining about him winning/playing it closer than it should be simply because he's using Metaknight (I have yet to play Xzax, so I have no opinion).

If there is one thing that can support a Metaknight ban, its the fact that offstage, Metaknight is completely broken. I will give you that one. If played correctly, there is no way to gimp a Metaknight, and the offstage play is half the battle. Take a look at this video from approximately 3:26 to 3:30- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWZAkU_UYak If Metaknight ends up getting banned, his ability to return from virtually any part of the stage will be the reason. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Metaknight's attacks. Tornado can get bypassed. Shuttle Loop can be predicted and handled with. His aerials are fast, but nowhere near unbeatable. Besides, there is no one way to play Metaknight. The reason that people say that Metaknight doesn't have a bad matchup because the character is versatile enough to play aggressively or defensively, but usually the player isn't, especially at anything but the top levels of play. Aggressive Metaknights probably can be beaten by certain characters, and Campy Metaknights might be beaten as well. The fact that Metaknight is light actually exists as a weakness because not many people can have godly amounts of DI and momentum cancelling.

I want to know your precedent for a MK ban, especially since Philly has never done it before. Removing a character does not advance a community; it proves that our community doesn't want to deal with the best character in the game, so it removes the problem. That is certainly a cause for weakness, not for strength.

 

[CT Chia]

I searched a ways back in the thread and have seen nothing about you promoting a ban on MK. Therefore, I will use this as your reasoning as I try to make an argument.

Being the best character in the game is a double-edged sword. There is the benefit of being able to cycle through the entire cast without having to face a character that generally beats you, but at the same time, everyone is going to focus on your character. At this stage of the competitive scene, if you haven't learned to beat Metaknight by now, you're getting nowhere. Yes, every character has other matchups to worry about, but considering how much more Metaknight is used than anyone else, people are going to study ways to beat Metaknight much more extensively than any other character. Banning Metaknight now, especially when no other area near us has banned him, is only going to stymie our efforts in stopping him, and when Metaknight is going to be in every significant tournament, we will only get hurt in the long run (yes, this has been said before, but it bears repetition)

Additionally, the fact that 'two players have picked up Metaknight since the last bi-weekly' doesn't prove anything if said two players are insignificant in regards to these bi-weeklies. In the three bi-weeklies that have happened this year, only one person outside of M2K (since he's part of the absolute top players echleon that is outside the realm of Metaknight being broken) has reached the top eight. That is hardly considered domination. The only Metaknight main that has used him enough to even warrant discussing is Xzax, and I seriously doubt that anyone is complaining about him winning/playing it closer than it should be simply because he's using Metaknight (I have yet to play Xzax, so I have no opinion).

If there is one thing that can support a Metaknight ban, its the fact that offstage, Metaknight is completely broken. I will give you that one. If played correctly, there is no way to gimp a Metaknight, and the offstage play is half the battle. Take a look at this video from approximately 3:26 to 3:30- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWZAkU_UYak If Metaknight ends up getting banned, his ability to return from virtually any part of the stage will be the reason. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Metaknight's attacks. Tornado can get bypassed. Shuttle Loop can be predicted and handled with. His aerials are fast, but nowhere near unbeatable. Besides, there is no one way to play Metaknight. The reason that people say that Metaknight doesn't have a bad matchup because the character is versatile enough to play aggressively or defensively, but usually the player isn't, especially at anything but the top levels of play. Aggressive Metaknights probably can be beaten by certain characters, and Campy Metaknights might be beaten as well. The fact that Metaknight is light actually exists as a weakness because not many people can have godly amounts of DI and momentum cancelling.

I want to know your precedent for a MK ban, especially since Philly has never done it before. Removing a character does not advance a community; it proves that our community doesn't want to deal with the best character in the game, so it removes the problem. That is certainly a cause for weakness, not for strength.

I've said my reasoning for banning him over and over lol, you even quoted one of the times I said why. Even if he's not as prevalent in PA doesn't change the fact that I think he should be banned. If I believe he's bannable, it has to start somewhere right? I can't hold a NJ tourney and ban him there lol (though I do hold NJ tournies on occasion). If MK were to become banned in the future, he wouldn't still be allowed in Oklahoma or something cause there's no good MKs there.

As for mentioning before that I was gonna ban him at the next biweekly, I may not have mentioned it in this thread, but if you would have asked me on AIM or in person at the last biweekly I would have said I am. I had the next few biweeklies planned for a bit but never really talked about him here since I didn't have the dates nailed down yet. I also mentioned it in other threads like the thread .com made in the Tea Room (though that was only in the past week, but it was before I said it here).

And while it might make PA weaker if a MK ban was permanent, it won't from one tournament. Step it up everyone. If you really need that much MK practice, then go play friendlies, or travel to NJ for a tourney. If you thrive for practice that much from just DSO biweeklies, then something is wrong.

Please no more MK discussion everyone, it's getting really boring and it's the only thing that's being talked about it in here. We debated it, we had some good discussions (and some bad), and I made my ruling. Let's all have fun.

And I'm posting this pic again cause it's perfect for the situation if you think about it:

 

[Rocann]

my only real practice is from DSO

what are you gonna do about it pal

also gg ripping that poster straight outta my room

 

[CT Chia]

i love that poster lol
i want one

 

[GenesisJLS]

Being the best character in the game is a double-edged sword. There is the benefit of being able to cycle through the entire cast without having to face a character that generally beats you, but at the same time, everyone is going to focus on your character.

Quoted for the truth, that comment is signature worthy.

 

[meta master]

why mention meta's ban rules if he's banned

 

[Keitaro]

Question: Is Metaknight banned for the upcoming biweekly or for all the future ones?

 

[Steel]

he is for the upcoming one.

 

[skyheart]

that pic is really funny hahaha

 

[Eljin]

I plan on coming to this 1 sounds good things its a sunday I got off.

 

[Dotcom]

Who wants to team at this.