Dr. Mario

[StarLight42]

When Lucina was confirmed, it gave me renewed hope for Dr Mario. I thought aloud: if it happened before, it might be able to happen again.

People berated me, saying he had no chance. All just because he was "the same character". Even the Samus/ZSS argument wasn't enough to deter them. I was called an idiot for believing he was even possible.

And now that he's in, I'd like to say:

GUESS WHO'S LAUGHING NOW?
THE DOCTOR IS IN, AND HE'S PERSCRIBING 100CCS OF BUTT-WHOOPING

But seriously I like that they made him even better in smash 4. Kept his tornado, gave him more alts, kept his black alt (which me and my friends always called pimp doctor), buffed his jumps, and overall had even more uniqueness than before. Dr Mario really just makes me ecstatic for the new Smash Bros.

Now if only swimming is in the Wii U version...

Preach it brother.

 

[4cast]

Uh... I never thought that he would get in over Mewtwo... and Roy and Pichu.
I was pretty damn surprised when I saw him get leaked.

I'm not big on his inclusion, but I can see myself play as him more than Mario.

Those Delicious Ridley and Mewtwo Fans Tears :D

 

[Dragoomba]

Even though its just a reskin of Mario's this actually looks pretty cool. Would've been better if they did something with those little enemies that are actually in the Dr. Mario games. Funny how Dark Pit got his seperate final smash but I dont think Lucina or Doc did. Totally not favoritism.

ALSO I heard that Pills now do 4% instead of 8%? PLUS adding in staling... Pretty terrible. Still seem like they'll be useful but thats quite the ****ing nerf. Especially seeing as how Dark Pit's arrows do 10% and Pit's do 8% and those are way more spammable than pills.
I HEARD, I don't have proof but I'm sure you could find some instance of it in any of the unlocking videos.

The pills were never really about damage though. It was the barrage and stun they caused.

 

[Clint Jaguar]

I definitely didn't think he would ever return because he was just a Mario clone in Melee. I assumed that if they were going to bring him back, Sakurai would have insisted on changing his moveset. But I guess I was wrong as now he seems to be the superior Mario option, for those who enjoyed playing as him in Melee.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Those Delicious Ridley and Mewtwo Fans Tears :D

Dude...

Don't be a jerk.

 

[That Sprite]

I'm so excited that Dr. Mario is back. He was my main in Melee, I only hope they didn't butcher his pills too much. Mario minus the stupid Fludd move and the hitstun pills make me a happy patient.

 

[Bedoop]

Does anyone have any CSS screenshots of Doc's black coat? ouo

 

[Jdaster64]

Looking at my profile, I clearly never had a problem with Doc's return, but after seeing a bit of gameplay, once again, they've done everything so perfectly. Not only does he have the old B-down with recovery potential, but his dair is completely new, and b-up has a sort-of Luigi-esque sweetspot. Still hoping to see the unique properties of fair and nair return, but it suffices to say that it looks like he plays very much like classic Mario / Doc, but still feels fresh with the little tweaks. I couldn't be happier about his return.

 

[meleebrawler]

I think, officially, that Dr. Mario is now officially the only clone that has a totally different special
from his counterpart (FLUDD and Dr. Tornado have nothing in common.)

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

So, in the leaked gameplay videos we see that Dr. Mario has a yellow costume:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp0_oRv5T2Y

While he was trying to unlock R.O.B we also saw a green/blue costume:
No video sorry.

So what costumes do you guys think Dr. Mario will get?

 

[Sari]

He has a light-red costume like in Melee, and also a more bright red costume. There was a picture showing all of his 8 costumes, though I forget where it is.

Edit: Found it

 

[Spinosaurus]

Tried out Mario in the Smash demo and KOing with him feels just as difficult as in Melee. Meh.

Yeah, I'm gonna assume Doc is like his Melee self and he actually has KO power.

 

[U-Throw]

Dr. Mario looks awesome. Right now, he's either gonna be my main or Iggy is. It's a tough decision. As a total Mewtwo supporter, I have surprisingly low salt for Doc. Lucario, and Greninja to some extent, on the other hand...

 

[Spinosaurus]

I have respect for Mewtwo fans.

You guys are cool. :]

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

He has a light-red costume like in Melee, and also a more bright red costume. There was a picture showing all of his 8 costumes, though I forget where it is.

Edit: Found it

Thanks for sharing the picture.


These colors are awesome.

 

[FancySmash]

oh, no Dr. Luigi alt...

 

[Cyberguy64]

Why does a costume need costumes?

 

[Saikyoshi]

It hardly needs to be said that is one of the most controversial characters in the roster. So we're going to talk about whether or not he was a good decision.

First thing's first: if you're clearly only here to whine or gloat, you will be reported on sight.

Let's look at what we know:

The facts:

• Very few animations were altered, and no new vocals were needed, meaning his creation was mostly a matter of tweaking numbers.
• Due to this, it is very unlikely that he was chosen over another character.

Common arguments for:

• He was a veteran, and thus has the same justification as Mewtwo or Roy.
• He has different properties than Mario, including lacking the much-loathed FLUDD.
• His presence does not affect the rest of the game and he can easily be ignored.

Common arguments against:

• He's an existing character in another costume, leading many to have the opinion that he would have been better suited as a costume.
• Though not likely, there is a creeping possibility that he, along with Lucina and Dark Pit, took away the effort needed from cut veterans on a similar (though not identical) level of effort to them, Lucas and Wolf.
• The fact that he is a clone is rather blatant and noticeable, sticking out like a sore thumb in the roster.

Let's hear some rational discussion about this for once.

 

[Deathlightning21]

I don't really think we needed him back for Smash4. Maybe as an alt like in P:M but not as his own serious character.

 

[Jaguar360]

I understand why he made it (differences from Mario's moveset, pills, Melee moves) and am really glad to have him back, but I don't really think he was that justified, though I know he probably didn't take a character slot by himself. (*cough*Mewtwo*cough*) The second argument against him is the one I am most behind along with just the general feeling I have inside on the matter. I'll play him anyway, though, justified or not.

 

[meleebrawler]

Dr. Mario looks awesome. Right now, he's either gonna be my main or Iggy is. It's a tough decision. As a total Mewtwo supporter, I have surprisingly low salt for Doc. Lucario, and Greninja to some extent, on the other hand...

I can only imagine the salt Ice Climber players have towards Duck Hunt for "replacing" the role
of NES representative.

...even if they came back, they'd be super-gimped by the new temporary re-grab immunity.

 

[Wintropy]

Just so long as we understand that there's no universally objective standard of the word "justified", I think this should be an interesting conversation! :3

Honestly, I don't have any real issues with his inclusion. He's a clone of Mario, to be sure, but I think he stands out enough to warrant his own space in the roster. He's also a clearly-designed love letter to fans of Melee and players who enjoyed Mario / Doc from way back when, and I think that's worth considering when critiquing the good doctor.

I will contend with the points about him being chosen in favour of Lucas and Wolf, though. What exactly justifies a character's inclusion with regards to any others? How do we arbitrate which characters are more "deserving" to be in the roster? It seems to be just speculation and subjective opinions, to be honest, and I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not Doc is a justifiable addition.

 

[Misinko]

Personally, I don't think he was totally justified in coming back, but I'll he honest, when I first saw that he had a chance of coming back, I was hyped. I was positive they wouldn't give him the F.L.U.D.D because Sakuri wouldn't make the Doc a complete clone, and that ment a strong possibility for the Mario Tornado to come back. He's honestly been my most anticipated character for Smash 4 for this reason. So while he may not be totally justified in coming back, I'm glad he's here.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Not much gameplay wise related, but i'm glad they even gave him his Melee idle animations and all, dat badass neck stretching and those new taunts.

 

[Spinosaurus]

How about a character from one of the biggest Nintendo series called Dr. Mario?

 

[Jdaster64]

Did Doc deserve a spot on the roster? Depends entirely on your stance on nearly-full (i.e. Melee-style) clones. If, like me, you have no problems with them, then he was the obvious choice for a returning clone. Ganondorf and Falco look like they play reasonably distinctly at this point, Young Link was replaced by Toon Link who is also reasonably distinct (at least in attributes), Roy wasn't going to make it back given Lucina, and Pichu would've taken some serious rethinking to stop him from being completely inferior again. Plus, with the change in Mario's down-B, it gives an opportunity for the fans of old Mario/Doc to play him as he used to be, without having to sacrifice the Brawl Mario moveset.

That all being said, judging all characters solely on their representational merit (i.e. not on dev time, etc.), Dr. Mario's admittedly not the strongest contender. I suppose his presence could be justified if his moveset represented the puzzle genre he came from, but barring that, he's pretty extraneous.

Personally, though, I'm all for them having presumably used spare dev time to pad the roster with a handful of clones, and Dr. Mario's easily the character I'm most excited to play.

 

[Misinko]

I am more than satisfied with the Doc's moveset. I just hope his dash attack doesn't send opponents at lesser percentages as high as it did in the video.

Thanks for the update man.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Yeah liking everything I'm seeing about him myself.

 

[SmasherP83]

I've never expected him to return but hey here he is! Just love Sakurai's choices so far :D

 

[The Soap]

I really would've preferred Paper Mario as a clone, but that probably would've taken more work, so Doc's fine.

 

[cmbsfm]

Well since he is back,I'm just going to pick the doctor over regular mario. Doctor Mario seems better.

 

[StarLight42]

He has a light-red costume like in Melee, and also a more bright red costume. There was a picture showing all of his 8 costumes, though I forget where it is.

Edit: Found it

YES! His black costume is back! Honestly that is the only costume I need for the Doc, I don't care about Doc Luigi.

 

[gamer8]

His colors look pretty good, I used black all the time in Melee but I think I'll probably use purple this time around mainly.

 

[Megamaw]

Why does a costume need costumes?

The salt is real!

 

[Wintropy]

Actually, can I just ask?

If there was a different character in place of Doc - say, Roy or Pichu - and, putting aside any personal or competitive perspectives and focusing on them purely as an addition to the roster, would you be more at ease with that? Is it the fact that there's another clone, the fact that it's a clone from Melee, the fact that it's supposedly a lazy character or the fact that it's canonically Mario in a lab coat that upsets people so much?

 

[Jaguar360]

Actually, can I just ask?

If there was a different character in place of Doc - say, Roy or Pichu - and, putting aside any personal or competitive perspectives and focusing on them purely as an addition to the roster, would you be more at ease with that? Is it the fact that there's another clone, the fact that it's a clone from Melee, the fact that it's supposedly a lazy character or the fact that it's canonically Mario in a lab coat that upsets people so much?

I'd be more comfortable with Roy, since he is a significant enough character from Marth, but we already have Lucina, so Dr. Mario is the best choice for a clone in this situation imo. People have different reasons against Dr. Mario's inclusion; all four that you listed apply to some people. I think the biggest argument is probably a combination of the fact the he's a clone and that he's a lazy character that could have been used for someone else.

 

[Ffamran]

Personally, I'm okay with him, but it's a rocky subject. For me, Dr. Mario and Mario reminds me of NESTS Kyo and Kyo Kusanagi. In The King of Fighters XIII, Kyo went back to his "original" move set since XII, I think, and NESTS Kyo used his previous move set that was more flame-orientated, however, NESTS Kyo was DLC, rather than included by default like Dr. Mario. In a way, they are similar, but have enough moves and properties to differentiate them as different versions of a character. But, the thing is that recent KoF's don't have many clones or semi-clones, heck, Iori Yagami uses a claw-based martial arts - dude literally slashes people with his bare hands - while Flames Iori (DLC and implied he'll return in the next games in ending) had his old move set and they're like night and day - kind of like Fox to Wolf compared to Fox and Falco with the Kyo's.

Anyway, Dr. Mario seems more like a semi-clone who's closer to being a clone compared to Pittoo and Lucina whose portrayals, in my opinion were wasted since they had much more potential then being (literally) Pit 2 and girl-Marth. I think people would have been less angry if Dr. Mario shared a slot with Mario in that you could switch between them, but I don't know how you could do that with a 3DS since it has a small screen. As for Pittoo and Lucina, I think few would be angry if they had their own move sets - Pittoo could have the same smashes and normals, but different Specials would be okay and Lucina taking Marth's set while Marth gaining a fencing set would be great, but Lucina having different normals and smashes and the same (modified) specials like Wolf would be okay.

The other thing: Who doesn't want to OD people to death?

 

[LancerStaff]

I really can't bring myself to care for him one way or another. Only reason I care about DP is that he's not only a character I like, but also a moveset. All I ask of him is that he isn't all-around better Mario like last time.

 

[Kidney Thief]

Yes he's justified thread over

 

[nuclearneo577]

Hey cool, light blue, that's the closest to Cyan that he'll ever get. The red one looks pretty nice too, now he can sort of look like normal Mario.