Roman.
Smash Champion
i hope so lol
-
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
double doc? 8D
rofl
also, has anyone eve dtilt'd a recovering falcon or ganon hugging the wall?
i know if someone is hanging on the edge and u dtilt them it will stage spike cuz of the way the dtilt hit people behind doc,
so im wondering if anyones ever tried or succeeded to do it to someone ?
or if it'll even work XP i doubt it but like it would look pretty funny 8D
rofl
also, has anyone eve dtilt'd a recovering falcon or ganon hugging the wall?
i know if someone is hanging on the edge and u dtilt them it will stage spike cuz of the way the dtilt hit people behind doc,
so im wondering if anyones ever tried or succeeded to do it to someone ?
or if it'll even work XP i doubt it but like it would look pretty funny 8D
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Well Falcons and Ganons should already know how to ledgetech because people are lame and gimp their recovery with stupid stuff, so you're just making it easier for them.
Man, i started typing a response to some things, but my cpu was acting gay as **** last night so i had to reboot it and I never cared to start over.
I went and played a ****ton a smash this weekend. Still cant frickin deal with a good smart samus but I learned some more things about how to handle a marth (Although people swear up and down I dont need to know anymore. XD )
Anyway
I WILL ****ING SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME, CAUSE I DONT LIVE BY A TIERLIST, I CAN OPEN MY **** EYES AND LOOK AT WHAT THE **** IS HAPPENING. MARIO IS JUST AS GOOD AS DOC. THERE IS A REASON WHY EVERYBODY IS STILL TALKIN ABOUT ALL THE GOOD MARIOS (DJN, Eggz, Green Mario, etc) BUT ALL THE ****ING DOC ARE DROPPING OFF, BECAUSE MARIO CAN DO **** LIKE FIGHT CAPFALS, AND MARIO WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A BETTER TIME AGAINST MARTH THAN DOC CAUSE MARIO CAN REACH THE MAA****ER. GOD ****.
I hate that ****ing thread.
___
Capsule's outdated guide? I'll have to look at it. I think i looked at that years ago and never cared much for it, so I never paid attention to it beyond that.
___
A new doc vid thread would be kool. But yeah, im not runnin that. Hell, just for the fact that I myself have too many doc vids that I dont want to be bothered with. I dont want to deal with anybody elses. XD
___
As for the guide I was going to make
You dont have to be as good or as fast with it on doc as you would luigi, but for PTP, twitch tapping is still the way to go.
To actually practice PTP, go to FD and tornado off the ground. While you're in the air, double jump. If you can double jump, profit. If not, man up.
... yes.
Hell, throw some pills if you get enough room.
Turn around and throw a inplace f.air for spacing.
or FH d.air.
****. YES YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ATTACK PEOPLE!
And lag from wavelanding? Are you serious? *facepalm*. i mean you could d.smash or grab, or you could waveland away and move from there, take your pick.
DJing out of the b.air is probably the worst thing you can do unless you know they flat out cant follow you up. If you guess wrong and get hit, you're probably going to get gimped from the middle of the stage. I mean, doc does have the 2nd worst recovery in the game and all.
Its a fun concept and all, and yeah you got teamcombos and whatnot. But ****, you still cant reach people. And your recovery flat out blows.
__
As for d.tilting recoveries, just like elven said, "Why?"
You are just giving them a chance.
I went and played a ****ton a smash this weekend. Still cant frickin deal with a good smart samus but I learned some more things about how to handle a marth (Although people swear up and down I dont need to know anymore. XD )
Anyway
Man, that ****ing difference guide has to go. Im sick of seeing that ****, im sick of people posting the same old bull**** that was found out like, 5 years ago, and im sick of people ****ing living in opinion land.
I WILL ****ING SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME, CAUSE I DONT LIVE BY A TIERLIST, I CAN OPEN MY **** EYES AND LOOK AT WHAT THE **** IS HAPPENING. MARIO IS JUST AS GOOD AS DOC. THERE IS A REASON WHY EVERYBODY IS STILL TALKIN ABOUT ALL THE GOOD MARIOS (DJN, Eggz, Green Mario, etc) BUT ALL THE ****ING DOC ARE DROPPING OFF, BECAUSE MARIO CAN DO **** LIKE FIGHT CAPFALS, AND MARIO WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A BETTER TIME AGAINST MARTH THAN DOC CAUSE MARIO CAN REACH THE MAA****ER. GOD ****.
I hate that ****ing thread.
___
Capsule's outdated guide? I'll have to look at it. I think i looked at that years ago and never cared much for it, so I never paid attention to it beyond that.
___
A new doc vid thread would be kool. But yeah, im not runnin that. Hell, just for the fact that I myself have too many doc vids that I dont want to be bothered with. I dont want to deal with anybody elses. XD
___
As for the guide I was going to make
In all seriousness, to PTP, you have to be able to do a generic game skill called twitch tapping. All you do is slightly twitch your hand over the button so that instead of actually pressing and lifting, you're literally twitching your hand over the controller.
You dont have to be as good or as fast with it on doc as you would luigi, but for PTP, twitch tapping is still the way to go.
To actually practice PTP, go to FD and tornado off the ground. While you're in the air, double jump. If you can double jump, profit. If not, man up.
Um... so lemme get this straight. You're asking if it's ok to throw out b.airs when you run?
... yes.
Hell, throw some pills if you get enough room.
Turn around and throw a inplace f.air for spacing.
or FH d.air.
****. YES YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ATTACK PEOPLE!
Marth f.smash = shield -> wavedash -> d.smash or grab.
And lag from wavelanding? Are you serious? *facepalm*. i mean you could d.smash or grab, or you could waveland away and move from there, take your pick.
DJing out of the b.air is probably the worst thing you can do unless you know they flat out cant follow you up. If you guess wrong and get hit, you're probably going to get gimped from the middle of the stage. I mean, doc does have the 2nd worst recovery in the game and all.
I did double doc for the longest with $mac at FAST1 over the summer (Friendlies, that is). We were rockin people for the most part, but I still dont really like the idea too much. Hell, I think we went through pretty much everybody except for Shiz and Eggm (Double Falco), and Greenmario and DJN (The epic double doc vs double mario MM)
Its a fun concept and all, and yeah you got teamcombos and whatnot. But ****, you still cant reach people. And your recovery flat out blows.
__
As for d.tilting recoveries, just like elven said, "Why?"
You are just giving them a chance.
Omni_Smash
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2008
- Messages
- 175
Wow, ok then all I need to do is link up that old reflex with a wavedash back into his face. Sounds good.
otg
Smash Master
SHBAWL has infinite usefulness. SHBair someone, if they shield it waveland away from them so you don't get shieldgrabbed. If it connects, waveland and keep ****ing Bairing them. I know over the summer Roman we talked and said we couldn't find practical uses for it, but it's incredibly useful for mobility and getting people the **** off the ledge.
As for Doc = Mario, yes it is all opinion and yes there are more Mario mains nowadays than Docs, but it's all down to personal preference.
As for Doc = Mario, yes it is all opinion and yes there are more Mario mains nowadays than Docs, but it's all down to personal preference.
Thank you.
Yes, doc is equal to mario, and it is preference. Yes, doc can kill easier. That is a **** fact that even the marios know. But guess what? We cant reach ****, and we cant recover. Done.
I mean, if you can edgeguard very well with a mario, not having throw->f.air isnt too much of a problem CAUSE YOU'RE STILL GOING TO B.AIR THE LIVING **** OUT OF THEM WHEN YOU GET THEM OFF THE STAGE ANYWAY. I mean ****, if you want to vertical kill somebody with mario, guess what? YOU CAN DO IT WITH YOUR UPSMASH AT ANYTIME, UNLIKE DOC AND HIS DOUBLE-STANDARD-HAVING-****ING-UPSMASH.
And sure doc's f.smash is stronger. Guess what mario's does? REACHES PEOPLE, OH ****.
Man, thinkin about that stupid "difference between doc and mario" thread, and that one somebody just made to be a thorn in my side, i should probably get off my *** and make a rela difference thread for **** that matters. Like the fact that mario's u.air is ballin and doc's is just kinda there.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
...why don't you just play Mario then?
I actually used to main mario a while ago, before I went to my first tourney (MLG Orlando) (other note, I used to main peach also before I went to said tourney).
Reason why I switched from Mario to Doc goes like this. (laughs at following irony)
There was a 2-or-3 year period that I didnt go on smashboards because I was disgruntled over not being allowed in the backgroom because I refuse to acknowledge that sheik and falco were the best characters in the game. I forget what my exact arguement was back then (it was something dumb, Im sure) but that was the basic gyst of it. So when I went to college and started getting back into melee, I went on the forums to look and see if Doc was better than Mario (I was playing Mario at the time). I saw that Doc was higher on the tierlist.
Here's the funny part.
I wondered why Doc was better, so I started playing Doc. And to this day, the only reason why I dont play mario is because I'm seriously too **** lazy to go back.
___
Realistically, I like what Doc can do over Mario. Doc's b.air is better than Mario's, straight up; although Mario can actually use his in combing (Green Mario bs, XD). Doc's pills are better for cutting off angles, specifically jumpouts, where as Mario's fireballs are better for approaching (since they fall down and stay down). Doc has a guarenteed kill setup on all-except-for-one-character in the game. (does the, "Im finished with this statement" pose).
Its not that Doc cant do anything, it's that Doc is good at some ****, and mario is good at some ****. But everybody tries to make it out to be like "Doc is higher on the tier list, therefore he's better than mario in every way." Which makes me laugh when I see mario's ****** capfal and i throw my controller when I see that american ****er. F.smash is THE reason why mario can handle that matchup.
Reason why I switched from Mario to Doc goes like this. (laughs at following irony)
There was a 2-or-3 year period that I didnt go on smashboards because I was disgruntled over not being allowed in the backgroom because I refuse to acknowledge that sheik and falco were the best characters in the game. I forget what my exact arguement was back then (it was something dumb, Im sure) but that was the basic gyst of it. So when I went to college and started getting back into melee, I went on the forums to look and see if Doc was better than Mario (I was playing Mario at the time). I saw that Doc was higher on the tierlist.
Here's the funny part.
I wondered why Doc was better, so I started playing Doc. And to this day, the only reason why I dont play mario is because I'm seriously too **** lazy to go back.
___
Realistically, I like what Doc can do over Mario. Doc's b.air is better than Mario's, straight up; although Mario can actually use his in combing (Green Mario bs, XD). Doc's pills are better for cutting off angles, specifically jumpouts, where as Mario's fireballs are better for approaching (since they fall down and stay down). Doc has a guarenteed kill setup on all-except-for-one-character in the game. (does the, "Im finished with this statement" pose).
Its not that Doc cant do anything, it's that Doc is good at some ****, and mario is good at some ****. But everybody tries to make it out to be like "Doc is higher on the tier list, therefore he's better than mario in every way." Which makes me laugh when I see mario's ****** capfal and i throw my controller when I see that american ****er. F.smash is THE reason why mario can handle that matchup.
*double post*
Somebody decide who the **** is going to do the video thread and let me know so i can get it stickied.
Somebody decide who the **** is going to do the video thread and let me know so i can get it stickied.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
erf
I'll make it
edit;
erm
before i make it, is there any format of how i organize them that someone would like me to make it?
should i do it
doc vs "insert character"?
or give each person their own area for their vids
i think the doc vs match up would be better, simply because if people wnt ideas on how to handle the match up they can look it up and find it.
I'm gonna make the thread now, and start collecting videos. if people would be so kind as to send me links to channels with a lot of videos i'de appreciate it =]
edit: actually i'll wait .
just in case someone else wants to do it and/or doesnt want me to.
otg
Smash Master
Dude sick idea on the video thread. Organizing it by matchups will make it a lot easier for people to access.
yay
so i guess i'll do it?
Also
to avoid being banned, im letting the boards i go to and my friends and stuff know that i'm going to be changing my identity from desh
to something.
I think its going to be "Proper"
Because of a silly inside joke.
but yeah =/
so i guess i'll do it?
Also
to avoid being banned, im letting the boards i go to and my friends and stuff know that i'm going to be changing my identity from desh
to something.
I think its going to be "Proper"
Because of a silly inside joke.
but yeah =/
otg
Smash Master
Let me know when its ready, I have a ton of vids to contribute vs. different characters. I'll only give you the best
Pine
Smash Ace
dogy your green text hurts me peepers
Oh im sorry, you must have mistaken me for somebody who gives a ****.
:D
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Looks like someone learned their lesson from their failed sarcasm escapade.
Pine
Smash Ace
its ok when its giant like that however your large blocks of letters makes me wanna cry
otg
Smash Master
I love this man. This is the bull**** that spews from my mouth when I use DK lol.
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
lol soo true.
Pine
Smash Ace
DK has a cool tie
wtf do i do against samus?
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
lose.
lololol
lololol
LAWL. I was just talkin to some people about Doc vs Samus.
Hell, pretty much anything vs Samus is an odd matchup, but Doc vs Samus is another one. It's odd like Falco vs Peach, where as it's hard if you play it normally, but it's not bad. However, nobody wants to play how you're SUPPOSED to to win the match. (Falco v Peach being that you're SUPPOSED to laser camp peach to death, which is why all falcos 2ndary fox)
___
ANYWAY.
Doc vs Samus.
Here's a list of what you can do.
-Punch her in the face.
Here's a list of what you can't do.
- You cant combo her (realistically. Some samus players are dumb enough to fall for u.air combos. That doenst really work)
- You cant d.throw f.air her (She's the ONLY character in the entire game that you dont have a guarenteed d.throw fair)
- Approach. (Well, I wont say that. But the only approach you realistically can use is f.air)
- Stand in her face. Samus can literally tilt doc clean out of her space. You cant respond to her tilts fast enough to beat her. If Samus starts f.tilting, you move. Period.
Now, with that being said here's what happens.
This match is all about potshots and projectile spam. You go around taking potshots because that's really ALL you can do. You cant combo samus, you should get n.aired anything you try it. Or bomb in the face, or screw attack away. But needless to say, you realistcally CANNOT combo samus.
For the most part in this match, you're going to want to be away from her. Again, if you stand in her face, you're going to get rained on by jabs, tilts, etc etc. If Samus every throws a smash and you block, you get a free wavesmash (downsmash) or grab for punishment. Just go ahead and d.smash unless you know said samus is dumb enough to fall for combos (Which again, realistically doesnt work on samus). IF SAMUS STARTS SPAMMING F.TILT IN YOUR FACE. YOU MOVE. PERIOD. Doesnt matter how you move, jump, roll, wavedash out, whatever. You CANNOT beat her tilts. Period. Dont try it.
Speaking of range. The range game works like this. Using "physical" attacks, samus outranges use clean. Using full spacing, you outrange samus (Full range meaning projectiles. This works because you can put more pills on the screen at one time and follow them than she can missles and follow them.
Speaking of projectiles, you do have to watch out for all sorts of missle tricks and mixups. Missle cancelling, platform missles, ledgehop missles. And you have to look for chargeshot setups. Lets look at an "if-then" formula.
If samus has a full charge + she makes you tech, then ***** you better mixup your tech.
If she knows where you're going to tech, chargeshot is guarenteed in this situation.
Other setups you'd have to look for would be
- Anyplace she would expect to shoot a missle and have it hit
- Ledgehop chargeshop
- Edgeguarding
- Hell, recovering if you're that sloppy
And one of the ones that could get you in the most trouble, anywhere she expects you to cape. You cannot just blindly go in samus's face caping expecting her to shoot, cause if she calls a cape, she can take a f.smash, d.smash, or d.air. If you're going to spam cape, stay back.
You want to try to keep her in the air, but again, you cant really combo her, persay, so you're going to have to rely on brawl combos. Which is like "I knock you in the air, I trick you into think im coming up now when instead i wait a sec and come here. Or i come now when you thought i would wait". Blah blah blah.
Once you get her off the stage. Pill rain. Just start chuckin those ****ers at all angles. On the ledge. Fullhop. DJ Pills. Whatever. Start throwing them ****s. Whenever she comes in to grapple, if she is aiming right at the ledge, wavedash off into a b.air. if she's going below it, go on the ledge and nair (be careful because if you're slow, she can nair you first, and if you go off the stage, **** it, you're done.) If they go low and grapple and you want to be gutsy, you can try $mac's run-off-reverse-pill-off-the-stage-highly-technical-Flordia-Shenannigans. Im personally not a high-risk kinda guy, so I would say **** that, but that's me. The idea is out there, if you like it, take it; if not, leave it on the table and i'll grab it on the way out.
And speaking of off the stage, if she gets you out far enough, you're realistically ****ed. All samus has to do to edgeguard doc is ledgehop a nair. Hell, if that will work, she probably just needs to hold the ledge. But you'd be surprised how many people dont know how to edgeguard a doc. XD
**edit**
holy ****, i forgot the most important thing in this match.
You approach with 2 moves only.
1) F.air
2) FH D.air. And you NEVER land next to her. If she jumps up into it, u.air and u.air again then move out. If she doesnt, go past her and bair, or go back and f.air (or something, just dont last next to her)
You do anything else, you're going to get CC smashed. Every time. Samus's CC game is nasty, and those ****ers love it.
HOW YOU LIKE THIS WALL OF GREEN TEXT PINE?!?!
Hell, pretty much anything vs Samus is an odd matchup, but Doc vs Samus is another one. It's odd like Falco vs Peach, where as it's hard if you play it normally, but it's not bad. However, nobody wants to play how you're SUPPOSED to to win the match. (Falco v Peach being that you're SUPPOSED to laser camp peach to death, which is why all falcos 2ndary fox)
___
ANYWAY.
Doc vs Samus.
Here's a list of what you can do.
-Punch her in the face.
Here's a list of what you can't do.
- You cant combo her (realistically. Some samus players are dumb enough to fall for u.air combos. That doenst really work)
- You cant d.throw f.air her (She's the ONLY character in the entire game that you dont have a guarenteed d.throw fair)
- Approach. (Well, I wont say that. But the only approach you realistically can use is f.air)
- Stand in her face. Samus can literally tilt doc clean out of her space. You cant respond to her tilts fast enough to beat her. If Samus starts f.tilting, you move. Period.
Now, with that being said here's what happens.
This match is all about potshots and projectile spam. You go around taking potshots because that's really ALL you can do. You cant combo samus, you should get n.aired anything you try it. Or bomb in the face, or screw attack away. But needless to say, you realistcally CANNOT combo samus.
For the most part in this match, you're going to want to be away from her. Again, if you stand in her face, you're going to get rained on by jabs, tilts, etc etc. If Samus every throws a smash and you block, you get a free wavesmash (downsmash) or grab for punishment. Just go ahead and d.smash unless you know said samus is dumb enough to fall for combos (Which again, realistically doesnt work on samus). IF SAMUS STARTS SPAMMING F.TILT IN YOUR FACE. YOU MOVE. PERIOD. Doesnt matter how you move, jump, roll, wavedash out, whatever. You CANNOT beat her tilts. Period. Dont try it.
Speaking of range. The range game works like this. Using "physical" attacks, samus outranges use clean. Using full spacing, you outrange samus (Full range meaning projectiles. This works because you can put more pills on the screen at one time and follow them than she can missles and follow them.
Speaking of projectiles, you do have to watch out for all sorts of missle tricks and mixups. Missle cancelling, platform missles, ledgehop missles. And you have to look for chargeshot setups. Lets look at an "if-then" formula.
If samus has a full charge + she makes you tech, then ***** you better mixup your tech.
If she knows where you're going to tech, chargeshot is guarenteed in this situation.
Other setups you'd have to look for would be
- Anyplace she would expect to shoot a missle and have it hit
- Ledgehop chargeshop
- Edgeguarding
- Hell, recovering if you're that sloppy
And one of the ones that could get you in the most trouble, anywhere she expects you to cape. You cannot just blindly go in samus's face caping expecting her to shoot, cause if she calls a cape, she can take a f.smash, d.smash, or d.air. If you're going to spam cape, stay back.
You want to try to keep her in the air, but again, you cant really combo her, persay, so you're going to have to rely on brawl combos. Which is like "I knock you in the air, I trick you into think im coming up now when instead i wait a sec and come here. Or i come now when you thought i would wait". Blah blah blah.
Once you get her off the stage. Pill rain. Just start chuckin those ****ers at all angles. On the ledge. Fullhop. DJ Pills. Whatever. Start throwing them ****s. Whenever she comes in to grapple, if she is aiming right at the ledge, wavedash off into a b.air. if she's going below it, go on the ledge and nair (be careful because if you're slow, she can nair you first, and if you go off the stage, **** it, you're done.) If they go low and grapple and you want to be gutsy, you can try $mac's run-off-reverse-pill-off-the-stage-highly-technical-Flordia-Shenannigans. Im personally not a high-risk kinda guy, so I would say **** that, but that's me. The idea is out there, if you like it, take it; if not, leave it on the table and i'll grab it on the way out.
And speaking of off the stage, if she gets you out far enough, you're realistically ****ed. All samus has to do to edgeguard doc is ledgehop a nair. Hell, if that will work, she probably just needs to hold the ledge. But you'd be surprised how many people dont know how to edgeguard a doc. XD
**edit**
holy ****, i forgot the most important thing in this match.
You approach with 2 moves only.
1) F.air
2) FH D.air. And you NEVER land next to her. If she jumps up into it, u.air and u.air again then move out. If she doesnt, go past her and bair, or go back and f.air (or something, just dont last next to her)
You do anything else, you're going to get CC smashed. Every time. Samus's CC game is nasty, and those ****ers love it.
HOW YOU LIKE THIS WALL OF GREEN TEXT PINE?!?!
JonaDiaper
Smash Champion
lol my dad came and was like wats that?
and i was like
"its a wall of green text"
and i laughed for a long time.
and now my chest hurts
and i was like
"its a wall of green text"
and i laughed for a long time.
and now my chest hurts
Bullet Bill
Smash Master
I've never found samus hard with Doc
Roman.
Smash Champion
I'm not trying to make it out to be hard (although Im not going to say i steamroll samuses or anything, it's an odd matchup).
But there are some dumb little things you do have to know about the matchup.
One of the people I play with often (alpha gundam) happens to be a samus main, so I just know alot of these things.
wow dogy's post absolutely *****
Pine
Smash Ace
shield any smash attack and yo can punish with a fair every time no risk
if dogy said that whatev i dun read his wall of slime
if dogy said that whatev i dun read his wall of slime
if it makes you feel better, i said punish a smash with wavesmash (downsmash) or grab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXZexFXhMcM
i got bored when i got home
decided to make sure all my recording equipment worked
and practiced a bit
killed like 90 birds with a couple stones.
but honestly idk why i made that LOL
just me doing random platform cancel arials
and like turnip cancels w/ peach and shiet
idk. o.o
i got bored when i got home
decided to make sure all my recording equipment worked
and practiced a bit
killed like 90 birds with a couple stones.
but honestly idk why i made that LOL
just me doing random platform cancel arials
and like turnip cancels w/ peach and shiet
idk. o.o
Roman.
Smash Champion
just because im a jerk.... at 1:12 - 1:29, only 2 fairs came out with hitboxes o.O
so, otg, are you making a cging guide atm? if not, i don't want to but will for the sake of having one out there
so, otg, are you making a cging guide atm? if not, i don't want to but will for the sake of having one out there